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Author Topic: Yet another reason to avoid Vista  (Read 7636 times)
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Brendan
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« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2008, 09:07:56 PM »

In-place upgrade is actually much different in Vista - it's basically a side-by-side install that imports your data.  It doesn't keep any of the binaries from the XP install.  It's a lot more predictable than the old school method.
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« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2008, 04:45:04 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on May 03, 2008, 09:07:56 PM

In-place upgrade is actually much different in Vista - it's basically a side-by-side install that imports your data.  It doesn't keep any of the binaries from the XP install.  It's a lot more predictable than the old school method.

ORLY?  I may make a phone call then.

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Brendan
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« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2008, 05:56:05 PM »

Yeah.  Launch the upgrade from your existing XP install and it'll gather all your files/etc, install Vista side-by-side, boot into Vista, migrate your data across, etc.  No mismatched binaries (thank god).  There's an app compat tool you can run to validate whether there're any applications that aren't supported or need updates, but you'll also get warned during setup if it finds anything egregious.
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« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2008, 07:07:08 PM »

Quote from: gellar on May 03, 2008, 06:44:49 PM

Quote from: Brendan on May 03, 2008, 02:39:42 AM

Quote from: gellar on May 03, 2008, 01:19:15 AM

See, it's not so much that I have anything *against* Vista.  If I bought a new PC, I'd probably leave it on there.  However, as someone with XP currently installed, I see no reason to install Vista either.  I'd certainly like Windows to be prettier, but it's not worth the reformat effort and possible compatibility issues.
No need to format anything - you can do an in-place upgrade.  Ask one of your buddies at MSFT to get you a copy at the company store.
In my experience that has never gone well.  It's just not worth the effort at this point in time.

I remember when I tried to 'upgrade' from XP to Vista - Vista didn't like how it couldn't find a driver for something (I believe it was the motherboard sound), and so it crashed 100% of the time upon bootup. After fiddling with it, I eventually said screw it and reverted back to XP.

Of course, I was an idiot at that point and wiped the drive and installed Vista anyway. It runs fine now, but at the start it was far from the perfect OS that Microsoft made it out to be. I mean, I BSODed Vista twice within the first week (something which Microsoft said was next to impossible).
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Brendan
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« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2008, 07:12:59 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on May 04, 2008, 07:07:08 PM

Of course, I was an idiot at that point and wiped the drive and installed Vista anyway. It runs fine now, but at the start it was far from the perfect OS that Microsoft made it out to be. I mean, I BSODed Vista twice within the first week (something which Microsoft said was next to impossible).

Bluescreens will still happen - but they're almost always the fault of a badly written 3rd party driver.
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Fireball
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« Reply #45 on: May 08, 2008, 05:14:56 PM »

I recently upgraded my MacBook with a much larger hard drive. Since I had space, I fired up Boot Camp and created a Vista install partition. While it's nowhere near as nice as OS X, I don't see why people don't like Vista. It's a significant usability improvement over XP in every way, based on my limited usage.
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Austin
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« Reply #46 on: May 09, 2008, 01:04:09 PM »

Quote from: Fireball1244 on May 08, 2008, 05:14:56 PM

I recently upgraded my MacBook with a much larger hard drive. Since I had space, I fired up Boot Camp and created a Vista install partition. While it's nowhere near as nice as OS X, I don't see why people don't like Vista. It's a significant usability improvement over XP in every way, based on my limited usage.

Maybe, but XP works and I'm not sure how much easier it can get for me.  Double click an icon or click Start and open from the menu.  That is pretty much all I need to do on a day to day basis.  I wouldn't rip it off a new computer that shipped with it, but I certainly am not buying it.
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Thin_J
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« Reply #47 on: May 09, 2008, 07:35:55 PM »

Quote from: Austin on May 09, 2008, 01:04:09 PM

Quote from: Fireball1244 on May 08, 2008, 05:14:56 PM

I recently upgraded my MacBook with a much larger hard drive. Since I had space, I fired up Boot Camp and created a Vista install partition. While it's nowhere near as nice as OS X, I don't see why people don't like Vista. It's a significant usability improvement over XP in every way, based on my limited usage.

Maybe, but XP works and I'm not sure how much easier it can get for me.  Double click an icon or click Start and open from the menu.  That is pretty much all I need to do on a day to day basis.  I wouldn't rip it off a new computer that shipped with it, but I certainly am not buying it.

That's pretty much exactly where I'm at. Combine the complete lack of any real need for the upgrade with the fact that I know my way around XP and with the slight drop in game performance and there's just no draw. I'm not going to spend money on Vista as long as XP keeps reliably fulfilling all my computing needs.

I have other hobbies I can happily put money into.
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Sarkus
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« Reply #48 on: May 09, 2008, 08:43:48 PM »

I've had Vista for a few days now (came installed on a new PC) and so far I'm not regretting it.  Sure, there has been the usual little annoyances about things not being where I expect them to be and some other stuff like the OS constantly asking me if I really want to do things, but it's nothing I can't handle.

That said, I've also come away feeling like it's more of a fresh coat of paint then a major upgrade.  So, I can't argue that people should be upgrading if XP continues to fulfill all their needs.  It's a lot like I felt when I went from Windows 98 to XP.

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Giles Habibula
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« Reply #49 on: May 10, 2008, 12:35:28 AM »

Quote from: Sarkus on May 09, 2008, 08:43:48 PM

.  It's a lot like I felt when I went from Windows 98 to XP.


I got dragged kicking and screaming to XP in 2004 I believe.
98 was serving me just fine.
Then "Thief: Deadly Shadows" was released.
As a huge Thief fan, I snapped it up and attempted to install it on 98. No go.
So I built a new XP machine, basically just to run that game.
I quickly came to love XP. Never did install Thief 3....
...until just this last week. Works fine, however, now I'm tempted to revert back to a CRT monitor to play it---I'm wandering off-topic....my LCD doesn't do the darkness as well as a CRT I'm afraid...

Anyway, it'll take some killer Vista-only game to get me to switch.
It'll happen someday. Thief 4 maybe?
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tjg_marantz
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« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2008, 03:50:44 AM »

Millenium, meet Vista.
Vista, meet Millenium.
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Zarkon
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« Reply #51 on: May 12, 2008, 06:00:59 AM »

I'd still like to know exactly WHY Explorer.exe (not IEXPLORE.exe) crashes periodically.  I'm /thinking/ that it's related to my Nvidia drivers, but I've tried numerous drivers without any change.   

It's frustrating.
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Rumpy
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« Reply #52 on: May 12, 2008, 09:36:55 PM »

Quote from: tjg_marantz on May 12, 2008, 03:50:44 AM

Millenium, meet Vista.
Vista, meet Millenium.

More like,

BOB, meet Vista.
Vista, meet BOB.

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Eel Snave
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« Reply #53 on: May 14, 2008, 03:12:26 PM »

Yeah, I've been telling people that if they're happy with XP, stick with it.  If you're getting a new computer, get Vista.
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Turtle
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« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2008, 08:40:59 AM »

So how is Vista now?  I'm about ready for the switch as XP is getting long in the tooth to me.  I don't game on my PC as much, and all the content creation software like photoshop and Maya have patches that make them work in Vista properly.
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Arclight
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« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2008, 10:28:24 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on May 16, 2008, 08:40:59 AM

So how is Vista now?  I'm about ready for the switch as XP is getting long in the tooth to me.  I don't game on my PC as much, and all the content creation software like photoshop and Maya have patches that make them work in Vista properly.

Got a new PC a few months ago with Vista Home installed on it. If I have to be honest I just don't get all the hate. Although recently more people are being less dramatic about their opinions of Vista and are seeing its really a good OS.

If I had to do it again though I'd get Vista 64 bit. Just a bit more future-proof than the 32 bit version.

Go for it...Jump in.........the water is great!!
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« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2008, 06:21:20 PM »

People do like to exaggerate.  I'm sure it's not as bad as people say, and I'm positive it's not as bad as XP64 bit was.  Nevertheless, I'm sure people feel about it the way I do.  It's like they are finally getting XP right after working out most bugs etc., and they want to force their OS agenda on us, which is aggravating.  To boot, there's talk of them releasing another operating system in a year or two, but I don't know how much truth there is to those grumblings.  Bottom line, I'm sticking with XP until it's either too unsecure, or until soft/hard ware is not compatible with it anymore.
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drifter
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« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2008, 06:53:16 PM »

Microsoft is requiring that drivers submitted for WHQL certification have both a 32 bit and 64 bit version.  This is one huge reason you wont have as many issues with Vista 64 bit as you would have had with XP 64.
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morlac
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« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2008, 07:28:19 PM »

Quote from: Arclight on May 16, 2008, 10:28:24 AM

Quote from: Turtle on May 16, 2008, 08:40:59 AM

So how is Vista now?  I'm about ready for the switch as XP is getting long in the tooth to me.  I don't game on my PC as much, and all the content creation software like photoshop and Maya have patches that make them work in Vista properly.

Got a new PC a few months ago with Vista Home installed on it. If I have to be honest I just don't get all the hate. Although recently more people are being less dramatic about their opinions of Vista and are seeing its really a good OS.

If I had to do it again though I'd get Vista 64 bit. Just a bit more future-proof than the 32 bit version.

Go for it...Jump in.........the water is great!!

Agree with this 100 %.  I just wish they had made it a native 64 bit OS.   
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Brendan
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« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2008, 08:28:00 PM »

Quote from: morlac on May 16, 2008, 07:28:19 PM

Agree with this 100 %.  I just wish they had made it a native 64 bit OS.   

Huh?  The x64 version of Vista is native.  It has WOW64 support for translation purposes for running 32-bit apps.
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morlac
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« Reply #60 on: May 16, 2008, 09:52:38 PM »

Sorry, I  I meant only a 64 bit version.  32 bit is dying/dead.  Seemed a perfect time to force it on us smile.
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Brendan
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« Reply #61 on: May 16, 2008, 09:56:46 PM »

It's a tough road, unfortunately - I guarantee sixty percent of the people here at GT would call for my head because of some old-ass legacy app they wanted to run. slywink
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morlac
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« Reply #62 on: May 16, 2008, 10:01:39 PM »

Progress is always a bitch...



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« Reply #63 on: May 17, 2008, 10:05:21 AM »

Yeah, that's another big reason, I can switch to the 64 bit version, up my PC to 4 gigs, that should make content creation a lot faster on my PC.  Although I wonder if photoshop and painter support that yet.
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Brendan
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« Reply #64 on: May 17, 2008, 03:13:26 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on May 17, 2008, 10:05:21 AM

Yeah, that's another big reason, I can switch to the 64 bit version, up my PC to 4 gigs, that should make content creation a lot faster on my PC.  Although I wonder if photoshop and painter support that yet.

No, not yet, but it's finally in the works.
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« Reply #65 on: May 29, 2008, 03:04:42 AM »

Yesterday Intel announced that they are not going to roll out Vista to their employees. They have decided to keep XP and wait for the next version of Windows.

Ouch for Microsoft - that's gotta hurt. Maybe not much financially, but to have a company as big as Intel not deploy Vista.

Smart move, Intel!
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« Reply #66 on: May 29, 2008, 03:20:12 AM »

Quote from: PaulBot on May 29, 2008, 03:04:42 AM

Yesterday Intel announced that they are not going to roll out Vista to their employees. They have decided to keep XP and wait for the next version of Windows.

Ouch for Microsoft - that's gotta hurt. Maybe not much financially, but to have a company as big as Intel not deploy Vista.

Smart move, Intel!

Link, please?
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PaulBot
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« Reply #67 on: May 29, 2008, 05:55:48 AM »

Quote from: dmd on May 29, 2008, 03:20:12 AM

Quote from: PaulBot on May 29, 2008, 03:04:42 AM

Yesterday Intel announced that they are not going to roll out Vista to their employees. They have decided to keep XP and wait for the next version of Windows.

Ouch for Microsoft - that's gotta hurt. Maybe not much financially, but to have a company as big as Intel not deploy Vista.

Smart move, Intel!

Link, please?

No link. It was an internal announcement. I'm sure it'll make it's way out of the company eventually. I'm surprised it hasn't already.
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« Reply #68 on: May 29, 2008, 12:34:05 PM »

Considering the company I work for (in the upper tier of the Fortune 500) is just starting to move toward XP, I don't really put a whole lot of stock in what various companies do with OS software.  When it comes to an OS, known quantities are almost always preferable to something that could introduce new problems regardless of how functional the "something new" may be.
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« Reply #69 on: June 04, 2008, 11:17:29 PM »

Especially because companies aren't going to give their employees gaming machines.  They want the cheapest stuff they can get, and you can run XP on any cheap system you get off of a truck in downtown Buenos Aires.  It's only after the benefits of having the new OS become much more apparent (like added security & network capabilities) that companies make the move.
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« Reply #70 on: June 05, 2008, 03:53:50 AM »

One of the things I wonder about is whether MS will update XP to overcome some of its limitations.  At some point the DX10 issue, the RAM limits issue, etc., will start to become an issue for high end users.

I also think we can't underestimate what appears to me to be a majority of new home PC's shipping with Vista.  Maybe I'm wrong in that impression, however.

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« Reply #71 on: June 05, 2008, 12:32:19 PM »

I sincerely doubt MS will rework XP to overcome those limitations.  There may be a tweak here or there, but that's it.  MS has already been working on the next iteration of Windows, and Vista is running well & as you noted it's shipping with most new PC's.  It just wouldn't seem to be cost effective to change XP to that extent.  Then again, my last name isn't Gates and I don't have enough money to buy a few dozen small countries.  Bagels, maybe.
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« Reply #72 on: June 05, 2008, 01:30:31 PM »

While I'm relatively pleased with Vista 64-bit so far, I'm not sold on DX10. The barely perceptible visual enhancements it offers don't ever seem worth the frame rate hits (and I've read numerous testing articles showing massive frame rate hits in the DX10 version vs. the DX9 version of various games, regardless of the test PC's graphics-pushing power).

I don't know when Microsoft gave up on trying to make their OSs (or DirectX incarnations) perform faster (duh!). If you do that, buyers will line up. As long as they keep pushing system bloat and frivilous visual tweaks, you'll have forums full of people arguing about Vista's merits, and having Windows XP pried from their cold, dead fingers.  icon_razz

My Vista 64-bit stumbling blocks so far remain:
-I had to give up my Best Buy-Rhapsody MP3 music store subscription because they aren't updating to support 64-bit. I'll live, but it's kind of a bummer.

-I'm so far stymied in efforts to get my old Palm Zire 71 synching to my computer because I can't find a serial-USB adapter with  proper 64-bit drivers (well, I did, but Iogear's 64-bit driver Zip file is screwed up) -- but no gaming problems so far). Palm in its infinite wisdom as a decaying company decided to make no effort to support 64-bit Vista so you can't synch via USB (you can via Wi-Fi, which my Palm doesn't have, or a serial port, which in my infinite Murphy's Law luck, my new PC doesn't have  disgust). I've settled for backing up to an SD card utility, but I missing being able to synch adjusted-size photos to my Palm to share.

Hopefully at some point 64-bit game versions will make me feel a little better. The only program I can use that I can vouch truly flies in 64-bit Vista is the 64-bit version of Windows Media Encoder, which truly flies when I'm converting massive .AVI gameplay videos into small streaming movies. It would take forever on XP. It isn't much (and maybe it's just the Quad Core earning its pay), but it's something.  icon_smile

I'm considering an iPod Touch, and apparently fairly recently Apple introduced proper 64-bit Vista support in both iTunes and the iPod Touch's synching software (Windows versions, natch). Bully for them. In a way it's sad that a presumable Microsoft competitor is better at supporting 64-bit Vista than vendors who are ostensibly Windows focused.  icon_confused
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« Reply #73 on: July 21, 2008, 05:38:40 AM »

I was pretty satisfied with Vista until two days ago when a little window popped up telling me that SP1 was ready to be installed.  Since then my video has been washed out, my audio produces weird popping noises and trying to take my computer out of sleep mode crashes it.  Ugh...
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« Reply #74 on: July 21, 2008, 04:01:26 PM »

Quote from: Lordnine on July 21, 2008, 05:38:40 AM

I was pretty satisfied with Vista until two days ago when a little window popped up telling me that SP1 was ready to be installed.  Since then my video has been washed out, my audio produces weird popping noises and trying to take my computer out of sleep mode crashes it.  Ugh...

I wonder what it would be like if SP1 was buggy!!
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« Reply #75 on: July 24, 2008, 06:30:15 PM »

Quote
I'm considering an iPod Touch, and apparently fairly recently Apple introduced proper 64-bit Vista support in both iTunes and the iPod Touch's synching software (Windows versions, natch). Bully for them. In a way it's sad that a presumable Microsoft competitor is better at supporting 64-bit Vista than vendors who are ostensibly Windows focused.

A large part of Vista's supposed problems are directly due to lack of vendor support, not Vista itself. It's extremely frustrating to see Microsoft finally put out an OS with the security features that should have been in previous incarnations of Windows, and then watch as developers completely ignore the OS and refuse to support it. Microsoft finally gave users and developers what they've been wanting - a more secure version of Windows - and they rejected it outright. Infuriating.

Quote
I don't know when Microsoft gave up on trying to make their OSs (or DirectX incarnations) perform faster (duh!).

When the PC market started slumping. Vista was a direct attempt to boost new PC sales.
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