Windows 8 - 10/26/2012!

[rittchard]

I'm baffled by W8 as well. I assume the vast majority of users will just run it in the normal desktop mode. I don't know why anyone would opt for touchscreen controls when they can use a mouse.

Same comment.  I suppose they are banking on all/most future systems going to some form of touch screen interface.  Which might make sense on laptops (not sure about that) but I really don't know about a full desktop.  Do you really want to be that close to a 27-30" screen?

I played with it a bit and there are a few nice things, but for the most part it's just kind of wonky, even on a laptop.  Admittedly part of the problem is I'm on a Macbook Air so there are no swiping/multitouch controls yet; that would probably help make a lot more sense of it all.  It's nice to know there are a lot of hotkeys and such, but it seems like the intention is to move away from that and be a more intuitive type of system.  I don't think they are quite there yet.

[Purge]

I think this will be fantastic on a tablet PC, but unless touchpads/screens become very popular (eg: Kiosks) this is only a nice-to-have.

Some of the under-the-sheets changes are nice though, including the app level settings, and the task manager revamp.

[Razgon]

Would you guys use touchscreen at home on your laptops or stationary computers?

I'm thinking I would not, but hey, I said the same thing about touch screen phones. I just think a mouse and keyboard cant be beaten

[Calavera]

Would you guys use touchscreen at home on your laptops or stationary computers?

I'm thinking I would not, but hey, I said the same thing about touch screen phones. I just think a mouse and keyboard cant be beaten

I would use a touch screen on an all-in-one. Give me a good cookbook application and an all-in-one in my kitchen would be really nice... All of the people running Cintiqs would probably be okay with it as well...

I have a sneaking suspicion that starting with the Metro menu will be something you can only disable on Professional or higher (e.g, Home/Home Premium will start on Metro every time regardless).

[Laner]

Would you guys use touchscreen at home on your laptops or stationary computers?

No.  Touchscreens are a compromise at best.   I have no desire to reach up and touch my monitor all the time - seems like an ergonomic nightmare.

[rittchard]

Would you guys use touchscreen at home on your laptops or stationary computers?

No.  Touchscreens are a compromise at best.   I have no desire to reach up and touch my monitor all the time - seems like an ergonomic nightmare.

Agreed.  I can imagine (maybe) on a small laptop, but I think what I'd prefer is to have the entire lower portion under the keyboard serve as a giant touchpad.  I saw that suggested somewhere.  That way you get the touch capability and feel without getting your grubby fingers all over and having to reachto the monitor constantly.  On a larger screen that's kept further away, I'd agree it would be an ergo nightmare.  Even on a 20" screen I'm sitting far enough that reaching for it would be annoying.

[Victoria Raverna]

Would you guys use touchscreen at home on your laptops or stationary computers?

No.  Touchscreens are a compromise at best.   I have no desire to reach up and touch my monitor all the time - seems like an ergonomic nightmare.

Agreed.  I can imagine (maybe) on a small laptop, but I think what I'd prefer is to have the entire lower portion under the keyboard serve as a giant touchpad.  I saw that suggested somewhere.  That way you get the touch capability and feel without getting your grubby fingers all over and having to reachto the monitor constantly.  On a larger screen that's kept further away, I'd agree it would be an ergo nightmare.  Even on a 20" screen I'm sitting far enough that reaching for it would be annoying.

So somewhat like NDS design? Two screens, one big one without touchscreen and one small one with touchscreen build on lower portion of the keyboard? Depend on the application, the small screen can 100% mirror of the big screen or show special control box screen if the full screen application support it. Or maybe get rid of the keyboard and have the lower half of the laptop as a big multitouch touchscreen which can work as a virtual keyboard when use as regular laptop but can also work as a touch screen?

And on a desktop design, also have a tablet as the controller? Somewhat like the design of the new Nintendo console?

[Purge]

Replace the entire numpad section with a capacitive multi-touch screen - preferably with feedback.

It can be a numpad, or a giant touch pad, etc.

[CeeKay]

Replace the entire numpad section with a capacitive multi-touch screen - preferably with feedback.

It can be a numpad, or a giant touch pad, etc.

like this?

[CeeKay]

Windows Media Center to be a paid upgrade in Windows 8.

and the world shrugged.

[EngineNo9]

I may not care much about Windows Media Center, but the fact that they're not even shipping with the ability to watch DVDs or Blu-rays is pretty crappy for the average consumer.

[Purge]

I may not care much about Windows Media Center, but the fact that they're not even shipping with the ability to watch DVDs or Blu-rays is pretty crappy for the average consumer.

Given a few facts :

1) cost of W8 software + licenses
2) most people don't use their PC to watch DVD/BluRay movies.
3) Windows 8 App marketplace.

The exception to 2 is likely the laptop market where people travel etc.

Thing is, if there is a marketplace with competing applications, why would MS inflate their point of entry for all users for a feature that may or may not get used?
MS is already shifting away from disks in general, so it only makes sense that they won't be footing the cost anymore.

This will mean VLC, K-Lite and others will be there for the minority to use.

Lastly, when you buy a non-OEM disk drive , you generally get bundled DVD/BR player software, so it's not like the options aren't already there.

[CeeKay]

Ubuntu 12.04 vs. Windows 8: Five points of comparison

[Purge]

Ubuntu 12.04 vs. Windows 8: Five points of comparison

I fail to see any actual comparison - it's all conjecture from someone who has a clear Linux bias (as opposed to me, who has never had a problem with MSFT, and enjoy the Metro interface in 2 of my 3 devices).

[CeeKay]

looks like we'll be seeing a better release preview in June. 

[CeeKay]

the release preview is out.

[Laner]

Windows 8 Pro upgrade (from XP/Vista/7) is $39.99 as a download.

http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2012/07/02/upgrade-to-windows-8-pro-for-39-99.aspx

[Purge]

and 69.99 at the till, until Jan 31, 2013.

Better pricing than I thought would happen.

[CeeKay]

Windows 8 Pro upgrade (from XP/Vista/7) is $39.99 as a download.

http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2012/07/02/upgrade-to-windows-8-pro-for-39-99.aspx

damn, I expecting it to be a lot more.  on the plus side there will hopefully be lots of time for feedback before the deal expires.

[Laner]

October 26, 2012

[CeeKay]

speed showdown between Windows 7 64 bit and Windows 8 64 bit.  it'll be interesting to see someone do a speed test with a system that has a SSD for the boot drive.

[CeeKay]

looks like Gabe Newell isn't a fan:

On Valve’s interest in Linux

“The big problem that is holding back Linux is games. People don’t realize how critical games are in driving consumer purchasing behavior.

“We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well. It’s a hedging strategy. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think we’ll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, then it will be good to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality.

a little more detail would be nice Gabe.

[Victoria Raverna]

I think he is worrying about losing to Microsoft's version of apps store and the flood of cheap $1-$5 games on that store.

[EngineNo9]

I think he is worrying about losing to Microsoft's version of apps store and the flood of cheap $1-$5 games on that store.

I highly doubt that. 

[Victoria Raverna]

I think he is worrying about losing to Microsoft's version of apps store and the flood of cheap $1-$5 games on that store.

I highly doubt that.  

Apple's apps store had "cheapen intellectual properties" far more than Steam sales. $10 in Apple apps store is considered to be expensive. The same with Google Play's apps pricing.

If Microsoft manages to get ios developers that make cheap casual games to make apps for Windows 8 apps store that can run on Windows RT tablets, Windows 8 tablets, and Windows 8 Desktop and laptops, it can affect the pricing of PC games and also compete with Steam.

[CeeKay]

apparently he is worried that Windows 8 will be even more of a closed platform. 

Newell's fear is that Windows 8, with the introduction of the Metro user interface and the new Windows Store -- which will be the only place users can buy Metro apps -- will make Windows even more of a closed platform, and that this will have a serious knock-on effect of Valve's business.

I'm no fan of Windows 8. I believe that the mish-mash of classis user interface and the newer touch-enabled Metro user interface results in a design disaster that could sink the new operating system, and I believe that Microsoft is running out of time to fix this mess.

That said, I'm not sure why Newell is so worried about Windows 8.

First, users will be free to install the Steam gaming platform -- or for that matter, any other compatible software -- on Intel x86 versions of Windows 8. Users will be able to install anything and everything they want with no restrictions or meddling from Microsoft. The lock-down only applies to the Metro apps, not regular applications. Outside of the app ecosystem, Windows remains on the most part as open as it ever used to be.

It's business -- pretty much -- as usual.

[CeeKay]

I've decided to give the preview build a shot on another one of my rigs that I'm supposed to get back in September.  figure I'll do an upgrade or two to it for a quicker install, and it'll give me a good idea whether or not I'm going to waste my time.  not holding up much hope though, but the idiotic 'Metro' term going away may help

[Purge]

Love the fact that MS Touch Mouse is getting a different command set.

I picked one up for ~35 about 6 months ago. Works well in W7. Looking forward to 8.

Also, yeah. The desktop is the same, so the moaning is unnecessary, Gabe. I have 263 items purchased from your store. Give it a rest.

[CeeKay]

and one of the final versions appears to have been leaked:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57485894-75/windows-8-final-version-allegedly-leaks-out-already/

Windows 8 may have arrived early, though not necessarily legally.

Sites that follow beta versions of Windows, such as winbeta.org, as well as more mainstream sites are claiming that the final version of Windows 8 Enterprise has already leaked onto file-sharing sites.

"It looks like our first leak has occurred, as Windows 8 Enterprise N has appeared on torrenting sites and has been confirmed by several that it's the real deal," said winbeta.org in a post earlier today.

[TiLT]

I can't imagine why anyone using a desktop PC would be looking forward to this OS. It looks like one of Microsoft's most disastrous Windows experiments so far, and there's pretty much no enthusiasm for it in the market. Compare this with Windows 7 which had people drooling months before release.

It's probably nice for tablets running Windows, but seriously, how many of us do just that?

[JCC]

I agree completely. They will have to scramble to get windows 9 out because businesses will not touch it. It's vista all over again, but this may be even worse.

[Calavera]

I agree completely. They will have to scramble to get windows 9 out because businesses will not touch it. It's vista all over again, but this may be even worse.

No, it's not Vista all over again. Vista had noticeably poorer performance than the previous OS. Win7 is basically Vista with higher performance and some small interface tweaks (the taskbar is vastly improved, for example). Businesses are just now moving off XP, many are moving to Windows 7 because Windows 8 isn't out yet. Considering Windows 7 is more expensive than Windows 8, I don't see MS having a problem with it.

Windows 8 is faster all around than Win7, it literally boots in half the time. Without an SSD. It's also a cheap upgrade at $40. I don't think it's going to sell like hotcakes, but it's a solid OS. Even including the new UI (f/k/a Metro). Seriously, Metro isn't going to eat babies or kick puppies. Literally, you can click the button labeled 'Desktop' and it goes away. Clicking in the lower left or hitting the Windows key on your keyboard brings it up. Hit escape and it goes away again. It's actually really unobtrusive.

[CeeKay]

Solitaire, Minesweeper and Mahjong will have achievements.

[Laner]

I'll have access to the final build on August 15 thanks to a Technet subscription, so I'll probably install it once my new SSD arrives next week.  But I bought Windows ME on day one as well.

[CeeKay]

downgrades allowed for people who buy new PCs with Windows 8 Pro:

Microsoft will allow users of Windows 8 Pro to downgrade their new PCs to Windows 7 or even Vista, according to the operating system's licensing agreement.

Not surprisingly, users may not downgrade to the still-used-but-slated-for-retirement Windows XP.

Downgrade rights -- which let customers replace a newer version of Windows with an older edition without paying for two copies -- are available only in Windows 8 Pro. That fits with previous practice: Only Windows 7 Professional, for instance, was allocated downgrade rights.

"Instead of using the Windows 8 Pro software, you may use one of the following earlier versions: Windows 7 Professional or Windows Vista Business," states the software license agreement for the version of Windows 8 Pro that will be installed by computer makers (OEMs) on new PCs.

Windows XP Professional, which was one of the allowed downgrades for Windows 7 Professional, was not named. Windows XP will fall off Microsoft's support list in April 2014.

not sure why they put Vista in there 

[CeeKay]

I'll have access to the final build on August 15 thanks to a Technet subscription, so I'll probably install it once my new SSD arrives next week.  But I bought Windows ME on day one as well.

did you?  any opinions?

[Laner]

I'll have access to the final build on August 15 thanks to a Technet subscription, so I'll probably install it once my new SSD arrives next week.  But I bought Windows ME on day one as well.

did you?  any opinions?

I did - it's fine.  I played around with the interface formerly known as Metro for a while, then installed Stardock's Start8 to bypass it completely.  It's still there, you just never need to use it if you don't want to. 

I don't find Metro offensive or anything, it just wasn't adding any value.  I disabled UAC for a while, but when I re-enabled it, some metro apps will no longer launch.  It seems to be a not-uncommon problem - http://bit.ly/RRfeB4

I've run into a couple of compatibility snags, which are to be expected prior to the "official" release.  Other than that, it's just a slightly more polished version of Windows 7 with an additional, optional UI tacked on.  I don't think a Win7 downgrade is necessary, unless you just *really* hate the idea of the Metro interface.

[wonderpug]

I haven't been following Windows 8 at all - does it do anything magical for the Home Theater PC world?  DVR functionality, in particular?

[Bullwinkle]

I haven't been following it, either, mostly because I hated the Metro for PC look and functionality.  I wasn't aware that there was also a regular desktop involved.  If the Start/Metro thing is more like a hyper-functional screensaver, then I'm more interested.

I've been seeing some reviews that are really pleased with the improvements overall (though most of them are still take it or leave it with the Metro stuff).  The significantly faster boot times, security improvements and other tweaks have got me paying attention again.

If this really is more like an improved Windows 7 with the Start Screen as something you can easily get past, then I may be interested.

[Laner]

Yeah, you're not locked into Metro by any means.   In Metro, your first position menu option is a big button for the Desktop.

A tool like the aforementioned Start8 lets you bypass Metro almost completely.  I've also used Launchy as a replacement for the Win 7 Start Search feature (or you can just hit Win+Q)

I'm sure there will be a bajillion tools that will let you largely ignore Metro in short order.  If anything it just seems like an app sitting on top of Windows proper (or a hyper-functional screensaver)