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Author Topic: Why is my system so slow?[Help]  (Read 2345 times)
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Calvin
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« on: January 31, 2007, 06:30:54 PM »

Ok all, I do not understand why my system is so slow right now, and it is really frustrating me. I have formatted several times, updated all drivers, all the good stuff. It still just runs slower than it should.
My system specs:
Athlon 64 3000+
1gig 3200 DDRAM
MSI K8T NEO mobo
Creative SBLive audio
Ati Radeon X850XT vid card

Scores/Benchmarks:
3DMark06 (default demo settings): 1561
According to the online thing, this is literally about the lowest they have on record-wtf?

Company of Heroes (1280*800, shadows off, AA off, other details med-high): Average 22.6 fps

HL2: Lost Coast (1280*800 shadows off, aa and AF off, other details med-high): Average 66.4

Plus a lot of other random slowdown. Should I try any other benchmarking programs? I pretty much just ran whatever I had or games that had easy to find stress tests. Just want some help and advice!

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depward
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2007, 08:03:26 PM »

Let's start @ square one:

-How much crap do you have running in the background?
-Do you have a virus scan program running?

Let me know!
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2007, 09:23:41 PM »

Quote from: depward on January 31, 2007, 08:03:26 PM

Let's start @ square one:

-How much crap do you have running in the background?
-Do you have a virus scan program running?

Let me know!

Yea run a virus scan heres a good one I use and it's free
http://www.freedrweb.com/cureit/

Also run adaware too clean up any junk you might have on there.
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2007, 09:38:17 PM »

is your memory running in single or dual-channel mode?
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TheAtomicKid
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2007, 10:27:05 PM »

All the K8T Neo boards (not neo2), are socket 754, thus single channel memory only.

The OP is correct that this system should not be 'slow'... was it running 'up to speed' before, and now it's slowed down? Or is this a new build?

Atomic
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2007, 10:34:05 PM »

PS: Check your memory timings in the bios and make sure it's running at 1T timing... assuming your memory can run at that speed ... do you have both mem slots full? if so, that could be causing it. I'm not sure if filling both slots on s754 has the same issues as filling all four slots on s939 with the total capacitance on the circuits being to high to run the memory at 1T timings... but it's a good bet that it is.

Assuming what I posted here isn't totally off the wall (someone please pipe in and correct me if they think I'm wrong), try pulling one dimm (assuming you're running two), and run your benchmarks (after checking the memory timings in bios... x x x 7 should be about optimal, if your memory can do it.)

Please note, that x x x 5 isn't actually optimal, even though it seems it would be, due to the way the athlon64 memory controllers work... the memory actually needs the slightly longer timing to perform optimally.

For instance, my memory in this system runs at 2-2-2-7 timings, with a 1T command rate.

Dropping that to a 2T command rate, with no other changes, will make about a 30% performance difference. Which is what I suspect your board might be doing.

Atomic
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« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2007, 12:12:38 AM »

Quote from: TheAtomicKid on January 31, 2007, 10:27:05 PM

All the K8T Neo boards (not neo2), are socket 754, thus single channel memory only.

The OP is correct that this system should not be 'slow'... was it running 'up to speed' before, and now it's slowed down? Or is this a new build?

Atomic

Atomic, this system has seemingly slowed down within the last few months. Nothing has changed, no equipment has been damaged, and I frequently format, scan for viruses, etc.
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Calvin
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« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2007, 12:13:21 AM »

Quote from: depward on January 31, 2007, 08:03:26 PM

Let's start @ square one:

-How much crap do you have running in the background?
-Do you have a virus scan program running?

Let me know!

Too much crap in the background, virus scan not running always, but I do scan periodically and I am clean. I use, every night, Ad Aware, Spybot Search and Destroy, and CC Cleaner utilities to try to keep the rig clean.
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Calvin
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« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2007, 03:11:58 AM »

Quote from: TheAtomicKid on January 31, 2007, 10:34:05 PM

PS: Check your memory timings in the bios and make sure it's running at 1T timing... assuming your memory can run at that speed ... do you have both mem slots full? if so, that could be causing it. I'm not sure if filling both slots on s754 has the same issues as filling all four slots on s939 with the total capacitance on the circuits being to high to run the memory at 1T timings... but it's a good bet that it is.

Assuming what I posted here isn't totally off the wall (someone please pipe in and correct me if they think I'm wrong), try pulling one dimm (assuming you're running two), and run your benchmarks (after checking the memory timings in bios... x x x 7 should be about optimal, if your memory can do it.)

Please note, that x x x 5 isn't actually optimal, even though it seems it would be, due to the way the athlon64 memory controllers work... the memory actually needs the slightly longer timing to perform optimally.

For instance, my memory in this system runs at 2-2-2-7 timings, with a 1T command rate.

Dropping that to a 2T command rate, with no other changes, will make about a 30% performance difference. Which is what I suspect your board might be doing.

Atomic

When the bios stuff appears at startup, it flashes 1T-however in the bios itself I cannot find a 1T or 2T listing for that matter-just on the boot screen. Is that right?
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Calvin
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« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2007, 04:48:57 AM »

Also, could someone please help me and answer the RAM question-do you need new RAM for Core 2 duo systems, and if so-whats a good value ram to get for 1 or 2 gigs?
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« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2007, 05:17:51 AM »

most of the newer mbs that support core 2 duo run ddr2 ram so you will need new ram if you are currently running ddr ram.
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« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2007, 05:29:20 AM »

So, not a new build.

The memory setting in question might not be settable through your bios, it kinda depends. If it's showing 1T, though, that's what it's running at. Sounds like you got a case of 'too much crap'... you said you've reformatted the system several times?

All core2 duo systems I know of, use ddr-2 type ram... so yes, you'd need new ram. You'd also need ddr-2 for the new socket am2 athlon64 systems.

Atomic
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Calvin
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« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2007, 05:39:25 AM »

Quote from: TheAtomicKid on February 01, 2007, 05:29:20 AM

So, not a new build.

The memory setting in question might not be settable through your bios, it kinda depends. If it's showing 1T, though, that's what it's running at. Sounds like you got a case of 'too much crap'... you said you've reformatted the system several times?

All core2 duo systems I know of, use ddr-2 type ram... so yes, you'd need new ram. You'd also need ddr-2 for the new socket am2 athlon64 systems.

Atomic

yes sir, I have reformatted several times. I think at this point I just do not know what to do with it. I think I probably am going to say screw it and do this upgrade. Although, Vista is tempting me too, because god knows I have had one hell of a time getting XP to work smoothly. Atomic you seem to be very good with this stuff, could you by chance tell me if this is a decent upgrade:

Intel Core 2 Duo 6300: 188
GIGABYTE GA-965P-DS3 LGA 775 Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard: 133
OCZ Gold 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 533 (PC2 4200): 110
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« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2007, 05:50:27 AM »

The DS3 is a really solid motherboard. Anandtech has a P965 chipset roundup where the DS3 is featured and shown to be a nice well featured board especially for someone on a budget. It doesn't win the little comparo, but they give some really positive impressions of the board and it takes second place to the Asus P5B.

That build has some solid overclocking potential.
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« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2007, 05:52:29 AM »

Quote from: Calvin on February 01, 2007, 05:39:25 AM

Quote from: TheAtomicKid on February 01, 2007, 05:29:20 AM

So, not a new build.

The memory setting in question might not be settable through your bios, it kinda depends. If it's showing 1T, though, that's what it's running at. Sounds like you got a case of 'too much crap'... you said you've reformatted the system several times?

All core2 duo systems I know of, use ddr-2 type ram... so yes, you'd need new ram. You'd also need ddr-2 for the new socket am2 athlon64 systems.

Atomic

yes sir, I have reformatted several times. I think at this point I just do not know what to do with it. I think I probably am going to say screw it and do this upgrade. Although, Vista is tempting me too, because god knows I have had one hell of a time getting XP to work smoothly. Atomic you seem to be very good with this stuff, could you by chance tell me if this is a decent upgrade:

Intel Core 2 Duo 6300: 188
GIGABYTE GA-965P-DS3 LGA 775 Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard: 133
OCZ Gold 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 533 (PC2 4200): 110

If you are planning to use vista I would suggest getting 2 gigs of ram to run vista smoothly and for some of the newer games comming out.
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« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2007, 09:01:55 AM »

OK- I might well change my mind and decide to go ahead and upgrade the system, but for now I think I am just going to upgrade and get 2gigs of new RAM for this unit and test it out. Can anyone tell me what would be some good, budget ram I could get for that? Or if you guys think that might be jumping the gun, can you tell me how I might test if the ram is bad. It seems I have 2x512 Kingston 3200 DDR400 in the rig right now. Like I said, I might still change my mind and go wiht the upgrade, but even if I dont I want to keep costs down for the incremental upgrade because it will just get replaced this summer.

THanks!!
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« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2007, 12:51:50 PM »

Might be a bit late with this, but I looked up on the MSI site for some RAM config rules.
I can't get a table to work in the forum here, but can see it for yourself:
http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UID=648

Memory Population Rules
Install at least one DIMM module on the slots. Each DIMM slot supports up to a maximum size of 1GB. Users can install either single- or double-sided modules to meet their own needs. Please note that each DIMM can work respectively for single-channel DDR, but there are some rules while using single-channel DDR. Memory modules can be installed in any combination as follows:

Slot Memory Module Total Memory
 
DIMM 1  Single/Double side  64MB~1GB 
DIMM 2  Single/Double side  64MB~1GB 
Maximum System Memory Supported 64MB~2GB 

DIMM 1 DIMM 2  Max. Speed
 
Single -  DDR 400 
-  Single DDR 400 
Single Single DDR 400 
Single Double  DDR 400 
Double Single DDR 400 
Double Double DDR 333

So, DDR400 should be fine in either slot. It's sounding like you have something else going south. Basic system diagnostics is the start. Check task manager for run away memory hogs and CPU utilization. You can go into the Admin Tools (Control Panel) and check the Event Viewer, Services list, and Performance Monitor to look for bottlenecks.

Off the cuff, I'd say your hard drive isn't too healthy.
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« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2007, 11:41:39 PM »

Quote from: javahead on February 01, 2007, 12:51:50 PM

Might be a bit late with this, but I looked up on the MSI site for some RAM config rules.
I can't get a table to work in the forum here, but can see it for yourself:
http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UID=648

Memory Population Rules
Install at least one DIMM module on the slots. Each DIMM slot supports up to a maximum size of 1GB. Users can install either single- or double-sided modules to meet their own needs. Please note that each DIMM can work respectively for single-channel DDR, but there are some rules while using single-channel DDR. Memory modules can be installed in any combination as follows:

Slot Memory Module Total Memory
 
DIMM 1  Single/Double side  64MB~1GB 
DIMM 2  Single/Double side  64MB~1GB 
Maximum System Memory Supported 64MB~2GB 

DIMM 1 DIMM 2  Max. Speed
 
Single -  DDR 400 
-  Single DDR 400 
Single Single DDR 400 
Single Double  DDR 400 
Double Single DDR 400 
Double Double DDR 333

So, DDR400 should be fine in either slot. It's sounding like you have something else going south. Basic system diagnostics is the start. Check task manager for run away memory hogs and CPU utilization. You can go into the Admin Tools (Control Panel) and check the Event Viewer, Services list, and Performance Monitor to look for bottlenecks.

Off the cuff, I'd say your hard drive isn't too healthy.

OK Java, thanks for that info-do you know of any tests to test hard drive and or memory efficiency/usage/"health"? That could be a great help to me.
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« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2007, 03:02:10 PM »

I'm assuming you have an AGP video card given the age of the motherboard and other components.  Have you checked in BIOS to make sure it's set to 8X and the aperture is set to at least equal to the memory on the video card (usually 128 or 256).

I'm also assuming you have a real Athlon 3000+ and not a sempron 3000+ so your processor should not be causing an issue.

I wouldn't think it was memory right off...typically memory problems cause crashes and blue screens not slowdowns.  To test it though the best memory tester (that's free) is at http://www.memtest86.com/ and tends to work extremely well. 

Next, check the hard drive settings in BIOS.  Make sure it's set to the right modes (UDMA, etc) and are you running multiple drives in RAID?  Don't know about the specific motherboard but do you have another IDE slot available where you could move the hard drive connector to?

Other things you can try (some already mentioned above):

- remove one memory chip and try the benchmarks, then remove the other, replace the first one and try them again
- check your BIOS to make sure the Athlon is reading as a 3000+.  I've had other motherboards reset the FSB and had a 2800+ register as a 1800+ before.
- Actually uninstall all background programs (spybot, antivirus, etc) then reboot and try the benchmarks
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« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2007, 03:14:07 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on February 01, 2007, 11:41:39 PM

Quote from: javahead on February 01, 2007, 12:51:50 PM

Off the cuff, I'd say your hard drive isn't too healthy.

OK Java, thanks for that info-do you know of any tests to test hard drive and or memory efficiency/usage/"health"? That could be a great help to me.
I don't have one in particular. Seagate made a good suite, but it might depend on the HDD manufacturer.

AND I just noticed that this is a VIA chipset, so you might want to check http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=2 for your newest drivers.
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« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2007, 10:48:58 PM »

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« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2007, 11:01:04 PM »

Quote from: javahead on February 02, 2007, 03:14:07 PM

Quote from: Calvin on February 01, 2007, 11:41:39 PM

Quote from: javahead on February 01, 2007, 12:51:50 PM

Off the cuff, I'd say your hard drive isn't too healthy.

OK Java, thanks for that info-do you know of any tests to test hard drive and or memory efficiency/usage/"health"? That could be a great help to me.
I don't have one in particular. Seagate made a good suite, but it might depend on the HDD manufacturer.

AND I just noticed that this is a VIA chipset, so you might want to check http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=2 for your newest drivers.

Ok I am not positive that the newest via drivers are for my motherboard, but it looks like they are so I am going to try that. I also defragged both hard drives last night, cleaned a bunch of crap out of my registry again, and shut off a lot of background processes. Things are running fast-memtest coming soon.
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« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2007, 07:05:19 AM »

If your still thinking of upgrading Fry's has a sale on some DDR2 ram.

http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=32664&adid=4074498&subid=14911777&type=
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« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2007, 07:59:25 AM »

Quote from: pingwrx on February 03, 2007, 07:05:19 AM

If your still thinking of upgrading Fry's has a sale on some DDR2 ram.

http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=32664&adid=4074498&subid=14911777&type=

Jesus christ thats a good deal-dont have a local frys though ping, and I didn't get that contract, so I am stuck at least a few more weeks. Thanks man!
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« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2007, 04:13:05 PM »

No problem just looking out.
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« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2007, 07:27:04 PM »

Quote from: pingwrx on February 03, 2007, 04:13:05 PM

No problem just looking out.

Appreciate it!
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« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2007, 08:20:26 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on February 02, 2007, 11:01:04 PM

Ok I am not positive that the newest via drivers are for my motherboard, but it looks like they are so I am going to try that. I also defragged both hard drives last night, cleaned a bunch of crap out of my registry again, and shut off a lot of background processes. Things are running fast-memtest coming soon.
This is why I avoid VIA chipsets these days. Though I haven't done a major upgrade in some time.
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« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2007, 09:14:40 PM »

I usually try my best to stick with ASUS...been really happy with their chipsets so far.  I currently run an intel board because it came with my RetailEdge bundle.  So far everything is fun and no issues. 
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« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2007, 01:14:04 PM »

Quote from: ROTC1983 on February 05, 2007, 09:14:40 PM

I usually try my best to stick with ASUS...been really happy with their chipsets so far.  I currently run an intel board because it came with my RetailEdge bundle.  So far everything is fun and no issues. 
Well, ASUS still makes a VIA chipset. Several in fact. I only mention this so no one confuses motherboard manufacturer with chipset. It's comparable with buying a Ford with a Mazda engine. The Ford being the mobo, and Mazda being the Ford's chipset; if you will.

And I'm not saying that VIA chipsets are bad either. Sometimes they need a little extra care.

What's the progress on the speed issue, by the way?
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« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2007, 07:55:38 PM »

Quote from: javahead on February 06, 2007, 01:14:04 PM

Quote from: ROTC1983 on February 05, 2007, 09:14:40 PM

I usually try my best to stick with ASUS...been really happy with their chipsets so far.  I currently run an intel board because it came with my RetailEdge bundle.  So far everything is fun and no issues. 
Well, ASUS still makes a VIA chipset. Several in fact. I only mention this so no one confuses motherboard manufacturer with chipset. It's comparable with buying a Ford with a Mazda engine. The Ford being the mobo, and Mazda being the Ford's chipset; if you will.

And I'm not saying that VIA chipsets are bad either. Sometimes they need a little extra care.

What's the progress on the speed issue, by the way?

I'm fairly sure I will be going with a Gigabyte board next time-hopefully with an nforce chipset.
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« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2007, 11:02:47 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on February 06, 2007, 07:55:38 PM

Quote from: javahead on February 06, 2007, 01:14:04 PM

Quote from: ROTC1983 on February 05, 2007, 09:14:40 PM

I usually try my best to stick with ASUS...been really happy with their chipsets so far.  I currently run an intel board because it came with my RetailEdge bundle.  So far everything is fun and no issues. 
Well, ASUS still makes a VIA chipset. Several in fact. I only mention this so no one confuses motherboard manufacturer with chipset. It's comparable with buying a Ford with a Mazda engine. The Ford being the mobo, and Mazda being the Ford's chipset; if you will.

And I'm not saying that VIA chipsets are bad either. Sometimes they need a little extra care.

What's the progress on the speed issue, by the way?

I'm fairly sure I will be going with a Gigabyte board next time-hopefully with an nforce chipset.

I have a Gigabyte board Nforce 2 I believe in my old pc which I still have solid board.
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« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2007, 12:16:15 AM »

Quote from: javahead on February 06, 2007, 01:14:04 PM

Quote from: ROTC1983 on February 05, 2007, 09:14:40 PM

I usually try my best to stick with ASUS...been really happy with their chipsets so far.  I currently run an intel board because it came with my RetailEdge bundle.  So far everything is fun and no issues. 
Well, ASUS still makes a VIA chipset. Several in fact. I only mention this so no one confuses motherboard manufacturer with chipset. It's comparable with buying a Ford with a Mazda engine. The Ford being the mobo, and Mazda being the Ford's chipset; if you will.

And I'm not saying that VIA chipsets are bad either. Sometimes they need a little extra care.

What's the progress on the speed issue, by the way?

Sorry about that Javahead...I meant manufacturer...Now I feel silly.  I should have been more descriptive in my writing.
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