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Author Topic: Upgrade time....help? (Update with potential purchases)  (Read 2319 times)
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Knightshade Dragon
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« on: September 26, 2007, 04:38:56 PM »

Normally I'm all about helping people pick their new rig, but I've been a bit disconnected lately with the higher end gear.  Somebody suggest a few motherboard / cpu combos?  Intel, AMD, whateva.  (I'm normally loyal to AMD though...)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 02:37:51 PM by Knightshade Dragon » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2007, 05:11:25 PM »

The cheapest bang for the buck...or my way smile

Motherboard - GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L
CPU - Intel Core 2 Duo E6750
Video card - BFG GeForce 8800GTS 640MB
Memory - G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2007, 05:29:15 PM »

Quote from: Daehawk on September 26, 2007, 05:11:25 PM


I've got a eVGA 8800 GTX 512mb for the video side.  It's the board / memory / cpu that I need help with.  Intel changing their name to a random combination of letters and numbers doesn't help with that....
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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2007, 05:30:24 PM »

Wow. Nice prices.

Unfortunately (for me at least), I have AMD components internally, which means I'd have to replace my RAM too. But very tempting...

I so hate it when these threads pop up. It always makes me want to upgrade. biggrin
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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2007, 07:07:06 PM »

I recently built a new gaming PC... it's got a pretty decent bang-for-the-buck ratio going on, IMO:

CPU: Intel E6750
Mobo: Asus P5K
Mem:  2GB OCZ DDR2-800

The E6750 is clocked at 2.66Ghz, but it's an easy overclock to 3.2 by upping the RAM speed to 400Mhz (which is the rating for DDR2-800 anyway).  All the new frontside/backside/sideside bus speeds and such are a bit confusing for me too, but this particular configuration runs like a champ.

----

...and the rest

Video: 8800GTS 320MB
Heatsink: Scythe Ninja Rev B w/ 120mm fan
HD: Western Digital Caviar SE16 750GB
Optical: Pioneer DVR-112D
PS: Corsair HX series 520W
Case: Antec Solo (Might not handle an 8800 GTX though)
OS: Media Center 2005 (not quite ready to make the jump to Vista)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 07:13:06 PM by Laner » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2007, 07:10:19 PM »

Check out Tom's Hardware Guide.  They just completed a system builder marathon: five articles on a wide range of price points (including the much-loved low cost PC).


BTW: you can pick up the "System Builder" edition of Vista Home Premium for around $90 now.  It's a full version, just doesn't have the box (they no longer call it OEM, and it no longer requires a hardware purchase).  Home Premium comes with the Media Center.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 07:12:07 PM by unbreakable » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2007, 07:18:26 PM »

I'm currently suffering the Vista Ultimate experience.  It is a lot like putting bamboo under your nails and doing a handstand.
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2007, 07:37:37 PM »

Just realized something - I already have an 8800GTX - that pretty much locks me into AMD as Intel boards lock down SLI don't they? 

(or do I have this backwards?)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 08:05:27 PM by Knightshade Dragon » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2007, 08:12:09 PM »

Quote from: Laner on September 26, 2007, 07:07:06 PM

I recently built a new gaming PC... it's got a pretty decent bang-for-the-buck ratio going on, IMO:

CPU: Intel E6750
Mobo: Asus P5K
Mem:  2GB OCZ DDR2-800

The E6750 is clocked at 2.66Ghz, but it's an easy overclock to 3.2 by upping the RAM speed to 400Mhz (which is the rating for DDR2-800 anyway).  All the new frontside/backside/sideside bus speeds and such are a bit confusing for me too, but this particular configuration runs like a champ.

Okay, that's just slightly tempting. And I think it would put my AMD X2 4200 out to pasture.

But I'd have to replace the motherboard, processor, and RAM, which then means a call to India to get Vista to work again. And of course the whole spending money thing. smile
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2007, 08:44:08 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on September 26, 2007, 07:37:37 PM

Just realized something - I already have an 8800GTX - that pretty much locks me into AMD as Intel boards lock down SLI don't they? 

(or do I have this backwards?)

I don't know, but if true it sure would be ironic.
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« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2007, 01:30:27 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on September 26, 2007, 07:37:37 PM

Just realized something - I already have an 8800GTX - that pretty much locks me into AMD as Intel boards lock down SLI don't they? 

(or do I have this backwards?)

/boggle

Where did you get this from? I have an 8800 GTX /w an Intel 6600 on an SLI board. Not running SLI or planning to run it, but curious what this is about.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 01:33:00 PM by coopasonic » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2007, 02:04:19 PM »

Quote from: coopasonic on September 27, 2007, 01:30:27 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on September 26, 2007, 07:37:37 PM

Just realized something - I already have an 8800GTX - that pretty much locks me into AMD as Intel boards lock down SLI don't they? 

(or do I have this backwards?)

/boggle

Where did you get this from? I have an 8800 GTX /w an Intel 6600 on an SLI board. Not running SLI or planning to run it, but curious what this is about.

http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2007/06/09/nvidia-denies-sli-to-intel

Stuff like that made me question, but reading up, it was just contract negotiation nonsense.  Intel and AMD will both handle SLI just fine. smile

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« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2007, 02:55:06 PM »

On the Intel side I'm considering....

Asus P5N32-E SLI Socket 775 Motherboard  - $209.00
http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=397&l4=0&model=1459&modelmenu=1

GSkill 2GB Stick (x2) - $98 per = $196
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231111

Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor   - $279
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115028

Total: $684
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 03:05:04 PM by Knightshade Dragon » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2007, 03:02:43 PM »

On the AMD side I'm considering...

ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe Wireless Edition AM2 NVIDIA nForce 590 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard  - $178
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131011

GSkill 2GB Stick (x2) - $98 per = $196
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231111

AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Processor - $169
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103773

Total: $543
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 03:04:46 PM by Knightshade Dragon » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2007, 03:21:29 PM »

Pros Intel:
- 1333 FSB
- Can pop in a quad core for further upgrade path
- 8 GB memory max (not that Vista knows wtf to do with that  retard)
- Board is passive cooled and silent
- 680i NForce Chipset
- 8 Channel Surround Sound Support
- Quad SLI (you know, for when 8800 GTX cards are 50 bucks a piece  Roll Eyes

Cons Intel:
- They change mobo / memory specs every damned week
- Mobo has overclock stability issues but runs fine at stock
- Expensive
- Intel drivers are notoriously shit


Pros AMD:
- $143 dollars cheaper
- Board overclocks like crazy
- 8 Channel Surround Sound Support
- Pure NVidia board support.  This could be a con as well.   Tongue
- Board is passive cooled and silent

Cons AMD:
- 1000 FSB
- Mobo / Proc combo is end of the road for AM2 socket.  Next upgrade means new board / proc / memory again.
- 590i NForce Chipset
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« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2007, 03:43:16 PM »

actually I've heard the Intel mobo is very OC friendly, unless they changed something recently.  It's one of the reasons I picked it for my new rig (I haven't tried OC'ing yet though).

Legion Hardware had a article on it but I don't have the link handy.
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« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2007, 03:49:54 PM »

Why is a silent, passively cooled board a Pro for the Intel but a Con for the AMD? 

I used to always buy top of the line motherboards because I wanted that ability to upgrade the CPU a couple steps sometime in the future.  What I found is that I never did that because the price for performance boost never seemed all that great and I might as well just go all new when it was time to upgrade.  No matter what path you go they always make it obsolete within a year.  One of the reasons I haven't upgraded my PC in a long time. 
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« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2007, 03:54:31 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on September 27, 2007, 03:49:54 PM

Why is a silent, passively cooled board a Pro for the Intel but a Con for the AMD? 

Wasn't meant to be.  Fixed. smile
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« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2007, 03:55:27 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on September 27, 2007, 03:43:16 PM

actually I've heard the Intel mobo is very OC friendly, unless they changed something recently.  It's one of the reasons I picked it for my new rig (I haven't tried OC'ing yet though).

Legion Hardware had a article on it but I don't have the link handy.

The reviews I read at a few places noted issues with overclocking.  Its a minor concern - if I can't run whatever the hell I want on a rig that powerful, overclocking isn't going to help.
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« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2007, 04:06:16 PM »

As nice (and cheap) AMD's processors seem to be, I'm leery of going with them again due to their recent processor change (from 939 to AM2, AND they'll be doing it again shortly).

I'm highly debating on going with Intel for my next run, simply because I know that whatever processor I toss into it, it'll be upgradable in the future by just tossing in another processor (as they haven't changed their processor design in what, forever?).
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« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2007, 04:32:47 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on September 27, 2007, 04:06:16 PM

As nice (and cheap) AMD's processors seem to be, I'm leery of going with them again due to their recent processor change (from 939 to AM2, AND they'll be doing it again shortly).

I'm highly debating on going with Intel for my next run, simply because I know that whatever processor I toss into it, it'll be upgradable in the future by just tossing in another processor (as they haven't changed their processor design in what, forever?).

Ehhh, they added the dual core, and now the quad core (if you wanna fork over 1000 bucks for one at today's prices) but the Intel board supports all of them.  It's the first I've seen of that sort of thing from Intel...
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« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2007, 08:39:02 PM »

I'm an AMD fan as well, but this go-around, the Core 2 was just too appealing to ignore.  Price, performance, and power consumption are all superior to comparable X2s.

As for specific CPUs:  Personally, I think the E6850 is overkill.  A stock 3.0Ghz is appealing for those of us who like round numbers smile , but the E6750 is exceptionally fast, and nearly $100 cheaper.  And as I mentioned, extremely simple to overclock to 3.2 and beyond.  I haven't found any game that it won't handle with ease. 

If that's still not enough horsepower, I'd go with the Q6600 quad core instead - the G0 stepping is also very overclockable, and it's not going to be too long before we see more games that will take advantage of four cores.
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« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2007, 09:55:42 PM »

Quote from: Laner on September 27, 2007, 08:39:02 PM

If that's still not enough horsepower, I'd go with the Q6600 quad core instead - the G0 stepping is also very overclockable, and it's not going to be too long before we see more games that will take advantage of four cores.

The only reason I haven't jumped on that is simply because there aren't many games out there that properly take advantage of dual core (short of some very basic things). And then it'll be even longer before quad support comes to live.
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« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2007, 03:40:03 AM »

Quote from: Destructor on September 27, 2007, 09:55:42 PM

Quote from: Laner on September 27, 2007, 08:39:02 PM

If that's still not enough horsepower, I'd go with the Q6600 quad core instead - the G0 stepping is also very overclockable, and it's not going to be too long before we see more games that will take advantage of four cores.

The only reason I haven't jumped on that is simply because there aren't many games out there that properly take advantage of dual core (short of some very basic things). And then it'll be even longer before quad support comes to live.
True, but I'd be willing to bet the window between dual and quad core-aware games is going to be pretty small.  Crysis and Alan Wake are going to be able to take advantage of quad core, as are future Valve games (Ep 3 will probably be quad-aware).
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« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2007, 04:20:33 AM »

Hehe, HL2: Episode 3 probably won't be out before next Christmas. 
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« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2007, 01:24:59 PM »

Quote from: Laner on September 27, 2007, 08:39:02 PM

I'm an AMD fan as well, but this go-around, the Core 2 was just too appealing to ignore.  Price, performance, and power consumption are all superior to comparable X2s.

As for specific CPUs:  Personally, I think the E6850 is overkill.  A stock 3.0Ghz is appealing for those of us who like round numbers smile , but the E6750 is exceptionally fast, and nearly $100 cheaper.  And as I mentioned, extremely simple to overclock to 3.2 and beyond.  I haven't found any game that it won't handle with ease. 

If that's still not enough horsepower, I'd go with the Q6600 quad core instead - the G0 stepping is also very overclockable, and it's not going to be too long before we see more games that will take advantage of four cores.

The thing with the quad cores is that they are at 2.4Ghz and 1066FSB though, right?
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« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2007, 01:45:17 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on September 28, 2007, 01:24:59 PM

The thing with the quad cores is that they are at 2.4Ghz and 1066FSB though, right?

The cheaper one (and the reasonably priced one), yes. There is a 2.6Ghz one but like twice the price.

And this review of the 2.6 quad can't be right:

Quote
All Q6700s are rev. G0. Using a Thermalright Ultra 120 i run this at 3.65Ghz under full load at 58C. My QX6700 B3 stepping only went to 3.3Ghz and sometimes ran upwards of 75C. Amazing....simply amazing.

Wow.
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« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2007, 02:08:00 PM »

Sweet Jebus!!  4 cores running at 3.65Ghz??!  That's craaaaazy.
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« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2007, 02:56:26 PM »

I think the octo cores are due soon too  drool
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« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2007, 07:52:24 PM »

My B3 stepping Q6600 hits 3.2ghz in a house with no A/C and never breaks 59 Celsius on any core with all four cranking full load in Prime95. I hit 3.4 once but the temps were too high for me. If I had A/C and could keep my room temperature down I'd consider going up, but it's not worth the risks a the moment.

The Thermalright Ultra 120 really is the best basic air cooler ever yet released.
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« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2007, 09:35:49 PM »

Quote from: Thin_J on September 30, 2007, 07:52:24 PM

My B3 stepping Q6600 hits 3.2ghz in a house with no A/C and never breaks 59 Celsius on any core with all four cranking full load in Prime95. I hit 3.4 once but the temps were too high for me. If I had A/C and could keep my room temperature down I'd consider going up, but it's not worth the risks a the moment.

The Thermalright Ultra 120 really is the best basic air cooler ever yet released.
ANyway to reliably get a b3 stepping?
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« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2007, 03:53:04 PM »

I wasn't actually pointing that out as a way of saying the B3's are better or even prefereable, just that the Quadcore's are pretty damn overclockable no matter what you get as long as you buy the right motherboard.

As for the B3.. well you wouldn't really want one now. You'd want a G0 chip if you were going to buy now. They run a good bit cooler at equivalent clocks, at least in general. There are good B3's and bad B3's. I got a decent one.

The cooler temps on the G0's make them a good bit nicer though, at least imo.
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« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2007, 03:58:20 PM »

You lost me at B3 and G0.  What are you talking about? Link me to these things you recommend...
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« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2007, 04:05:07 PM »

They're just versions of the Core 2 CPU architecture.  B3 is what the older versions were based on, G0 is the newer one introduced mid-year.  It runs cooler and overclocks better than the B3.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3066
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« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2007, 04:21:09 PM »

Quote from: Laner on October 01, 2007, 04:05:07 PM

They're just versions of the Core 2 CPU architecture.  B3 is what the older versions were based on, G0 is the newer one introduced mid-year.  It runs cooler and overclocks better than the B3.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3066

Thanks.  It's all a mystery to me as I was AMD from the K6-2 days till now...
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