Palm's new "Pre" phone/Web OS at CES (Palm's last stand?)

[Blackjack]

The breathless 1st week of June speculation is ramping up...
http://www.precentral.net/palm-pre-launch-weeknd-june-5th-aka-june-7th

Canada and Australia also announced, but for the 2nd half of the year

On my flights to/from Mississippi the last couple of days, I was so surrounded by people with Blackberry smartphones and various touchscreen smartphones (curiously, I saw nobody using an iPhone, though I see them all the time here in Virginia). And all the management type employees at the refinery I visited seemed to use Blackberry smartphones (not the Storm, just the more typical hardware-key versions).

[Blackjack]

Final retail packaging apparently spotted:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9773/final-palm-pre-retail-packaging-and-box-contents-spotted/

And the manual was leaked:
http://www.precentral.net/palm-pre-manual-other-box-materials-leak-out

The buzz for a June 5-7 launch date is deafening, but it could just as well be a red herring. But with all the nitty gritty details (including FCC testing requirements) falling into place, it looks like things are coming together.

[Blackjack]

At the risk of screwing up my own odds of winning, Sprint's giving away a free Pre with 1-year of Simply Everything service included and the Palm Touchstone (which if you ask me, is in danger of being an awfully overpriced optional gizmo) recharger.

http://sweepstakes.sprint.com/palmpre/

[Destructor]

Still waiting for this phone. I just wish that Sprint would let an official release date leak out (instead of all these internal documents which point towards a June 7th date).

[Blackjack]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site//olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat183100050005&type=category

But the question is, would a Best Buy or Sprint store be less obnoxious to deal with? 

[Canuck]

According to Engadget it's coming out on June 6th.  Same day as D-Day?  Just a coincidence I wonder or was there supposed to be some sort of symbolism there?

[Goldchamp]

Got my email June 6th for $199 after rebates and discounts. too bad its sprint

[ROTC1983]

Got my email June 6th for $199 after rebates and discounts. too bad its sprint

I wish it would have been a GSM phone  

[Destructor]

Got my email June 6th for $199 after rebates and discounts. too bad its sprint

I'll take it. And there's nothing wrong with Sprint as far as I'm concerned (assuming you have no intention on going outside of the country, anyway).

And I thought they were working on a GSM version of this for later release (or have leaked documents showing that this will work in other countries, or something)...

[Blackjack]

Yes, he's right, there are various overseas Pre versions on the way, but they've got to get North America out of the gate first. 

There was some advice given a while back about being cautious jumpin on preorders for unlocked Pre GSMs:
http://www.precentral.net/unlocked-gsm-palm-pre-sale

And Bell in Canada's working on bringing the Pre there later in the summer:
http://www.precentral.net/bell-hoping-bring-pre-canada-asap-soon-august

btw, before you run down to the Sprint store, Best Buy apparently plans to offer it for $199 with an *instant* rebate, instead of a mail-in one (and anyone who's ever mailed in rebate coupons can share some sort of horror story about not getting one, or getting it months late). I don't know if it's worth braving the cacophonous hell on earth that is the average Best Buy store, but it's something to consider.

Best Buy Mobile to offer Instant Rebate on Palm Pre
http://www.precentral.net/best-buy-mobile-offer-instant-rebate-palm-pre
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Best-Buyreg-Mobile-Will-Sell-bw-15297527.html?.v=1

Best Buy Mobile, now in 1067 locations around the U.S. including standalone stores and stores-within-a-store at Best Buy will begin selling the Palm® Pre™ phone June 6. Without the hassle of mail-in rebates, Best Buy Mobile allows consumers to buy with instant rebate savings at the point of purchase.

[Destructor]

I'm assuming that Best Buy can do all the more 'normal' things that a Sprint store can do too - like number porting and such, right? Or is that all through Sprint once you bring the phone home?

[ericb]

I wanted one bad but they won't work with SERO plans and I'm not giving up my $30 everything plus the kitchen sink plan. 

[ROTC1983]

I might try one, but I will wait to see what might happen during WWDC first

[Destructor]

I wanted one bad but they won't work with SERO plans and I'm not giving up my $30 everything plus the kitchen sink plan. 

Sprint is trying to close down the loophole that SERO was (because everybody that heard about it tried to get into it) and thus this is their way of doing it - releasing phones that require a more current (and yes, more expensive) plan. Like when I moved from my Treo 650 to my Mogul - my old unlimited data plan was no longer compatible with it, even though they were both unlimited plans.

[Blackjack]

Boy Genius (a newer techie site you may want to bookmark if you're into all this Schtuff) interviewed the Best Buy mobile director of merchandising:

Best Buy Answers Questions about Palm Pre Day
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/05/20/best-buy-answers-questions-on-palm-pre-day/

A: Like most of the significant handset launches, we expect inventory to be in limited supply for the first 4-8 weeks.

Best Buy Mobile is initiating a “ticketing process” beginning on June 6.  Meaning, if any store were to sell through all of its inventory, the store would begin to log customer names in an effort to prioritize them for the next shipment’s arrival.

A: Every Best Buy Mobile store that offers Sprint phones, which is nearly 1,000 stores, will have the Pre.

The caveat is they aren't revealing specifically how much on stock each store will have. I don't think I'm desperate enough to wade through it. Hopefully the hardcore types here will get them, and we can enjoy some impressions here, which is one of the things I love about these forums. 

[disarm]

i'm definitely interested in making the Pre my first smartphone, but i won't be jumping in at the very beginning.  while i think the phone has great potential, i'm waiting for a few impressions before making the leap...and waiting until July puts me in a situation where i can make my new employer pick up the bill

[Destructor]

Boy Genius (a newer techie site you may want to bookmark if you're into all this Schtuff) interviewed the Best Buy mobile director of merchandising:

Boy Genius tends to get more 'leaks' than Engadget gets, somehow. At least I constantly see Engadget reference to them and their screenshots.

To get this at launch or not...I did so on Day 1 with my Sprint Mogul, and didn't really regret it (although I also haven't used it too terribly much, either).

[Blackjack]

Yeah, it's like now even the leak-crazy news sites have to start aggregating content from other sites. You need a flow chart to understand who really dug up the news. 

They seem to indicate that Phase I is chaotic, "low distribution" of the Pre, through about July or August, and then by then it should be more widely available.

[Blackjack]

As much of a Palmster as I am -- still slogging away with my Palm Zire 71 in a battered Rhino hardcase, and still often having to explain just what a Zire 71 is -- if the Pre isn't all that and a bag of chips, or if the hardware keyboard is as cramped and well nigh unusable as some early impressions suggest, then I might finally join the darkside and get either an iPhone (I hardly ever use my cellphone at all, but I can see the appeal of not being tied down to Wi-Fi hotspots for Internet access) or iPod Touch. For mid-life crisis reasons if nothing else. 

I almost bought a Touch months ago, but talked myself out of it after the Pre was announced. This is your last chance with me, Palm. Not that you care. 

[Destructor]

One thing that's nice about the keyboards on the old Treos looks to be the same advantage of the Pre - one-handed operation of the keyboard. That was the very first thing I missed when I went from my Treo 650 to my Mogul. You have to have fiddled with a phone with that 'feature' to know just how nice it is.

[Freezer-TPF-]

As much of a Palmster as I am -- still slogging away with my Palm Zire 71 in a battered Rhino hardcase, and still often having to explain just what a Zire 71 is

Was that the one with the camera and little joystick?  I'm still rocking my Tungsten E--I even bought a new pleather flipcover for it last week!

I'm keeping an eye on the Pre and the Android phones, but I need them to come out for Verizon before I can really consider them.

[Destructor]

Need to know way too much about the Pre? A whole shitton of questions have been answered at these four links: One, Two, Three, Four. No, I have no idea who owns this website, but it has a lot of information on it (including tons of shots about the Google Maps ap, the browser, Memos, and Tasks). Note - site may be down due to overloading.

[disarm]

there's a rumor floating around that PalmGoon may actually be a dummy site that's actually run by Palm/Sprint as a way of indirectly 'leaking' info.  it seems pretty likely given that they seem to know more than just about anyone else right now...

[Destructor]

there's a rumor floating around that PalmGoon may actually be a dummy site that's actually run by Palm/Sprint as a way of indirectly 'leaking' info.  it seems pretty likely given that they seem to know more than just about anyone else right now...

Exactly. I read that rumor too. Frankly, I just want more information (and reviews) on this phone in the next few days.

[Blackjack]

Cleary the most important thing, according to this ballyhooed Internal Sprint Pre Document, is "exclusive NASCAR content!"   
http://www.precentral.net/internal-sprint-pre-documents-leak-out-right-here

[disarm]

a ton of Pre video footage courtesy of "the invisible man" from PalmPreForum.org...15 videos demonstrating different features so far.  they're all made using the official Pre SDK emulator and some features aren't working just because he's demonstrating on an emulator, but there's a ton of interesting stuff to be seen...and it all looks great.  if they can get good app support for the Pre after release, it looks like it could be a really great phone...

[Blackjack]

This doesn't seem quite as clear a confirmation as PreCentral makes it out to be, but the AT&T CEO talks about "seeing it" carrying the Pre once the Spring exclusivity time period runs out...

CEO Confirms: Pre Coming to AT&T
http://www.precentral.net/ceo-confirms-pre-coming-att

After defending his network's glass jaw and complaining about how much data the iPhone uses, CNN reports that "Stephenson added he sees AT&T selling the Pre after the exclusive arrangement with Sprint expires."  We pretty much expected it, but it's nice to hear it from AT&T themselves.

[ROTC1983]

This doesn't seem quite as clear a confirmation as PreCentral makes it out to be, but the AT&T CEO talks about "seeing it" carrying the Pre once the Spring exclusivity time period runs out...

CEO Confirms: Pre Coming to AT&T
http://www.precentral.net/ceo-confirms-pre-coming-att

After defending his network's glass jaw and complaining about how much data the iPhone uses, CNN reports that "Stephenson added he sees AT&T selling the Pre after the exclusive arrangement with Sprint expires."  We pretty much expected it, but it's nice to hear it from AT&T themselves.

Nice, I do hope this occurs sooner than later

[Canuck]

I wanted one bad but they won't work with SERO plans and I'm not giving up my $30 everything plus the kitchen sink plan. 

Sprint is trying to close down the loophole that SERO was (because everybody that heard about it tried to get into it) and thus this is their way of doing it - releasing phones that require a more current (and yes, more expensive) plan. Like when I moved from my Treo 650 to my Mogul - my old unlimited data plan was no longer compatible with it, even though they were both unlimited plans.

How is it a loophole?  Did they just not realize how good of a plan they were giving?  Can you buy a new phone these days and still stay on the SERO plan?  Or do you basically have to keep your old phone for the eternity?

[Destructor]

How is it a loophole?  Did they just not realize how good of a plan they were giving?  Can you buy a new phone these days and still stay on the SERO plan?  Or do you basically have to keep your old phone for the eternity?

Here's the entire problem with that plan - it's too cheap. And it was supposed to be for employees (and family members) only. When people signed up for it in droves, this was the beginning of Sprint's money problems (as there can't be any real profit in the old SERO plan).

AFAIK, if you stick with the non-fully featured phones, you'll be able to keep your SERO plan. I think that limits you to anything on the tech scale of the Sprint Mogul and below, plus all the generic flip phones. Don't even try it with the Blackberries, the Touch (Instinct?), or the Pre. They all 'require' plans or packages that the SERO plan doesn't provide (even though, yes, it's still the same thing in the end).

[Blackjack]

Boy Genius claims to have its hands on one. The roar that the physical keyboard is too cramped, clumsy to use and borderline unusable seems to be turning into a crescendo - yet to see anyone have anything positive to say about it (beyond the keyboard, everything else sounds golden, fwiw). The general response is "I'll get used to it," although as a 6'4" guy with long spindly fingers, the keyboard sounds un-promising to me.

http://www.precentral.net/boy-genius-report-nabs-pre

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/05/28/palm-pre-first-hands-on/#more-26233

[Destructor]

The keyboard looks more or less like all the Treo keyboards - a bit cramped, but I could type away quite well on one with a bit of a learning curve.

[ericb]

How is it a loophole?  Did they just not realize how good of a plan they were giving?  Can you buy a new phone these days and still stay on the SERO plan?  Or do you basically have to keep your old phone for the eternity?

Here's the entire problem with that plan - it's too cheap. And it was supposed to be for employees (and family members) only. When people signed up for it in droves, this was the beginning of Sprint's money problems (as there can't be any real profit in the old SERO plan).

AFAIK, if you stick with the non-fully featured phones, you'll be able to keep your SERO plan. I think that limits you to anything on the tech scale of the Sprint Mogul and below, plus all the generic flip phones. Don't even try it with the Blackberries, the Touch (Instinct?), or the Pre. They all 'require' plans or packages that the SERO plan doesn't provide (even though, yes, it's still the same thing in the end).

It actually can still be upgraded to any new phone except the Instinct, the Pre or the HTC Touch series.  All other phones can be upgraded if you are persistant including the Treos and Blackberry models.  Basically for $30 I'm getting unlimited data, unlimited texting, 500 anytime minutes, unlimited nights and weekends, unlimited sprint mobile to mobile and 7pm nights.  I went ahead and upgraded to the rant just for the keyboard and it's a much nicer phone than what I had but I still wanted the Pre.  Just not for $30-$40 more a month.

[Blackjack]

The keyboard looks more or less like all the Treo keyboards - a bit cramped, but I could type away quite well on one with a bit of a learning curve.

I knew you'd say that. 

Hey, Rubenstein and McNamee gave a Pre demo at the end of the "D7" conferece today. Here's some coverage...

http://www.precentral.net/d7-mcnamee-and-rubinstein-ham-it
http://www.precentral.net/itunes-syncing-confirmed-both-mac-and-pc

http://blog.laptopmag.com/palm-closes-d7-with-pre-demo
(lots of photos, though the quality is pretty poor in some cases)

http://www.slashgear.com/palm-pre-camera-samples-att-launch-push-gmail-and-first-review-2844976/

Most ballyhooed is seamless iTunes integration (ironic, no?) and downloading of tunes from Amazon.com. They also demonstrated some app downloading/installiing.

And AT&T CEO apparently "sees" them offering a GSM version of the Pre in about 6 months, though he may just be talking out his...

[Blackjack]

As much of a Palmster as I am -- still slogging away with my Palm Zire 71 in a battered Rhino hardcase, and still often having to explain just what a Zire 71 is

Was that the one with the camera and little joystick?  I'm still rocking my Tungsten E--I even bought a new pleather flipcover for it last week!

I'm keeping an eye on the Pre and the Android phones, but I need them to come out for Verizon before I can really consider them.

Freezer, hi, sorry I forgot to reply earlier. 

Yes, the Zire 71 is the one with a "slider" camera (I still use it frequently to this day, and the slider mechanism has never been a problem in 6 years), and a tiny metal joystick, like so:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=5841

Alas, it uses an older Palm OS version that can't be updated to the latest. I also can't use cool add-ons like the SD Wi-Fi card (which only works with the Zire 72, as far as Zire models go). And I don't like Graffiti 2 at all (they had to revise it and change certain keystrokes to avoid some sort of patent infringement lawsuit, as I recall). And, finally, Palm Desktop isn't Vista 64-bit compatible, which blows (I just use a backup program to backup to an SD card now and then). I have meant to try setting my cradle up with my Acer Aspire One netbook (Windows XP) some time.

My best friend got the much bulkier, non-slider Zire 72 later, and he found it crash prone and unreliable. I'm still convinced the Zire 71 and a couple of the Tungsten models were the last truly reliable Palms (I've considered the T/X to this day, but I've seen far too many complains about the digitizer reliability, among other things). I've wondered if maybe they switched to a cheaper manufacturer or something in the 2004-2005 time frame.

I have toyed with getting an iPod Touch numerous times. I wish I just knew someone who owned one and then I could see whether it would be as useful (I can live without the camera). Even now, with the Pre around the corner, I still think about it. Gadget Envy can be so painful. 

It sounds like Verizon and AT&T both want to carry the Pre once Sprint's exclusivity is over. If it's 6 months, they could both carry the Pre in time for Christmas - perhaps another conspiracy?  I probably have more faith in Verizon's coverage area than Sprint, but I don't know for sure if their phone/date pricing plans would be any more palatable.

[Isgrimnur]

This doesn't seem quite as clear a confirmation as PreCentral makes it out to be, but the AT&T CEO talks about "seeing it" carrying the Pre once the Spring exclusivity time period runs out...

CEO Confirms: Pre Coming to AT&T
http://www.precentral.net/ceo-confirms-pre-coming-att

After defending his network's glass jaw and complaining about how much data the iPhone uses, CNN reports that "Stephenson added he sees AT&T selling the Pre after the exclusive arrangement with Sprint expires."  We pretty much expected it, but it's nice to hear it from AT&T themselves.

Nice, I do hope this occurs sooner than later

From my time with AT&T Mobility (nee Cingular), expect 6 months at the earliest.  That was about the delay we would see on new Blackberries, but of course it will depend on the contract that was signed. 

[Destructor]

It sounds like Verizon and AT&T both want to carry the Pre once Sprint's exclusivity is over. If it's 6 months, they could both carry the Pre in time for Christmas - perhaps another conspiracy?  I probably have more faith in Verizon's coverage area than Sprint, but I don't know for sure if their phone/date pricing plans would be any more palatable.

Yeah, I'm reading the same thing - 6 months of 'exclusivity' for the Pre on Sprint, and that's it. And as far as pricing goes - Sprint's 'Everything Data' plan that's the 'minimum' for the Pre (450 minutes, unlimited text, unlimited data, GPS, TV, Nights starting at 7PM, etc) is $69.99. That's far cheaper AFAIK than all the other providers.

Random poster about Verizon prices:

the same on vzw (which i currently have)
$99.99 for 450 mins, unlimited text, unlimited data

before they had the above, where you can do ala carte
$39.99 for 450 mins
$44.99 for unlimited data
$10 for 500 texts, unlimited INnetwork
$15 for 1000
$20 for 5000
=========
$94 to $114/mo

The data is what kills you - Sprint charges either $15 or $20 for unlimited data on all of their Windows Mobile phones.

[Isgrimnur]

AT&T has PDA/iPhone Data at $30, texting is $20.  450DT/5K NW/UM2M would be $39.99.  Total would be $10 less than the Verizon plans above.

Yeah, Sprint's cheaper, but they are hemmoraging customers and need to do something to try to staunch the flow. IIRC, they are always near the bottom of the list.

[Destructor]

Yeah, Sprint's cheaper, but they are hemmoraging customers and need to do something to try to staunch the flow. IIRC, they are always near the bottom of the list.

On customer numbers? Yeah. I don't know why though - I've had no problems with their phones or their customer service (which I've heard that they've greatly improved over the last few years).

[Blackjack]

Clearly the most important Pre feature is its rear... mirror. 
http://blog.laptopmag.com/hands-on-with-the-palm-pres-mirror

The mirror worked as well as any small mirror on a phone would work. I was able to see my teeth (which I may add were quite white and lacking any signs of food remains) and I even was able to maneuver it so I could see what was happening behind me (another great use of having a mirror in your pocket). I did notice there were a few scratches on the mirror itself from use and most likely McNamee’s repeated opening and closing of the phone.

A lot of Sprint complaints seem related to their ill-advised merger with Nextel, and they at least used to have a bad rep in terms of general coverage areas (compared to Verizon for example), though they do seem to have shored that up quite a bit. I can't say whether the bad rep was deserved, or was just another case of the Internet reinforcing something that wasn't true.