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Author Topic: First time building a new rig... help me! help me!  (Read 2468 times)
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Clay
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« on: July 11, 2006, 10:10:05 PM »

Hello!  I want to build myself a new gaming rig because my current one is limping along like the 3-yr old notebook that it is.  (In other words, I can play  the original Zork, but not much else...)

A few facts:
- I haven't done this from scratch before.
- I need a monitor, too.
- I'm on a very maximum budget of $1000 because...
- I'm unemployed, but...
- I just finished a Masters degree and should have a job soon.  Not that you really needed to know that.  
- I used to work in game development, for Impressions (Pharaoh, Zeus) and with Stainless Steel (Empire Earth).  I left game development to go into public health. (if you're really curious, you can see http://www.twohelp.org for some of what I've done.)
- I don't need the phatest most tricked up rig with spreewells.
- I don't mind buying a system, as long as the price and quality is in line with what I could build myself.  However, I would like the experience of building it myself, as long as it doesn't end up costing more.
- I'm pretty technically compentent.
- I've been reading about components/systems for a few weeks, for the first time in 5-6 years, and there's lots of jargon I don't recognize.

So, there are a few way to go about this, ranked from most fun to least fun.
1. You guys help me isolate the individual parts I need and the best vendors.  (Maybe we can even turn this into a GamingTrend recommended system for a particular budget?)
2. You guys (and gals?  any here?) point me to other sites that accomplish #1.
3. You guys ignore me completely.
4. You guys scorn me for my budget and chosen profession.
5. KD shows up at my house and delivers a paralyzing martial arts attack, leaving me incapacitated in a wheelchair for the rest of my life.
6. You guys secretly enlist me in the North Korean army and I never ever see a computer again, but I'm provided with a trusty rusted knife.

To start, I know I need the following:
- Case
- Power Supply
- Motherboard
- RAM
- Processor
- Hard drive
- Graphics card
- Sound card
- Network card
- DVD drive
- Monitor
- Keyboard & Mouse
- Cables and accessories to hook this stuff together.
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Jimmy the Fish
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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2006, 10:52:28 PM »

It's been a while since I built a system. Whatever hardware you go with, newegg.com is the best place to order what you need. Very good prices, and their RMA process is very painless in case you need to return anything.

I like ASUS motherboards myself. I find them very reliable and well built. Plus, their manuals are really nice. Don't get one with an AGP slot. PCI express is the standard now.
At this point, an AMD processor is probably the best value. Go with dual core if you can.
For RAM get as much as you can afford. 2 GB is a nice range.
For hard drives, go with 7200 RPM SATA drives.
For sound, the motherboard onboard sound is plenty good unless you want something more elaborate like Dolby 5.1, although some motherboards now have onboard Dolby 5.1 sound.
Separate network cards are not necessary as most motherboards have the network hardware built-in.
On the DVD drive, go with a dual layer DVD burner.
The graphics card may be the hardest choice simply because there are so many options. I'm partial to nVidia cards myself, but really you cannot go wrong with ATI either. Either the ATI 1xxx series or the nVidia 7000 series if you can afford it.
LCD monitors are the way to go. A decent 19" LCD display can be had for $200 to $300.
On the power supply, get at least a 450 watt one.
Cases are more of a personal thing. I like Antec and Kingwin ATX cases.

The last system I built was one of those compact cube systems. While the small size is nice, the wimpy power supply and amount of heat it generates is not worth it. Don't bother with these small form factors.

I'm sure others will chime in on specific models of components to get.
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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2006, 10:53:44 PM »

Man, that is going to be TOUGH when you need literally EVERYTHING.  I'm sure it can be done, though.  I'll give it some thought.

I noticed you had some TwoHelp stuff in Atlanta.  Do you ever get down here?  If you ever make it down here (no idea where you are) I will give you a nice case and a power supply, possibly a good CRT as well.  Maybe we could work out a trade and you can come and tell my students about your time in Africa?

Black full tower case.
New 350 Watt Enermax power supply
19" (or 21", can't remember) black ViewSonic CRT monitor

Unfortunately shipping all that stuff is just WAY too costly.  It weighs a ton.
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Graham
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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2006, 02:25:40 AM »

Seriously, it sounds like you would be fine with a lot of the integrated stuff on the motherboards.  This would keep you from getting a sound card and network card.

You might want to wait until Intel's new processors come out if you can wait a little longer.  It pains me to say that because I've been an AMD fan for a while now, but it sounds like the new processors will be impressive and a good price.

Go PCI-Express over AGP.  Either ATI or NVidia will work well.  I've used both and haven't been disappointed either way.

I do go to newegg.com, but I have also used mwave.com previously and haven't had any issues with them.
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2006, 02:57:36 AM »

Most hardware sites have fairly up to date guides on building budget systems, which can give you good ideas for what components to look for as a base.  There is one such guide over at AnandTech and one at Sharky Extreme.
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Clay
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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2006, 12:01:09 PM »

Quote from: "stiffler"
Man, that is going to be TOUGH when you need literally EVERYTHING.  I'm sure it can be done, though.  I'll give it some thought.

I noticed you had some TwoHelp stuff in Atlanta.  Do you ever get down here?  If you ever make it down here (no idea where you are) I will give you a nice case and a power supply, possibly a good CRT as well.  Maybe we could work out a trade and you can come and tell my students about your time in Africa?

Black full tower case.
New 350 Watt Enermax power supply
19" (or 21", can't remember) black ViewSonic CRT monitor

Unfortunately shipping all that stuff is just WAY too costly.  It weighs a ton.


Thanks for the offer!    smile   Alexis was in Atlanta for January.  She wrote more than she posted there, but experienced computer problems & never ended up posting it.  As for me, I'm currently sitting in Beaufort, NC.  That said, if I find that I'll be in Atlanta, I may take you up on your offer.  Of course, I would always be more than happy to talk to any students about what I do and/or have done.  

Regarding Intel's new processors, when are they due out?  Will this be an advantage because they themselves will be cheap, or because they will knock down the price of current processors?

I guess I just got confused visiting pricewatch and digging through all of the components.  It's amazing how much this stuff changes if you're out of the loop for a few years.

Thanks for the links, EngineNo9.  I'll take a look and come back with questions.
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2006, 04:27:01 PM »

I would personally suggest NCIX; they also do price matching, so if you find it cheaper online, they'll match it (including rebates).

Best bang for the buck (video) - eVGA PCI-E 256MB Nvidia 7600 GT CO. The cons listed on the newegg page are false; there's something else buggin' his system up. www.anandtech.com rates it pretty high. I've had one for 3 months, no problems.

Minimum a gig of dual channel ram. I'd recommend the low-end ASUS board; A8N-SLI (not the 32, unless you KNOW you're going to go SLI for sure). If you don't need firewire, go for the M1697 version of the ASROCK ULI board. It's good considering the price (once again, bang for buck). Don't go for the M1695 version, and NCIX doesn't carry the M1697.

I would put the money into a 3800+ X2 dual core CPU(AnandTech conclusion on Manchester X2 3800+); Windows Vista will use it, so go for it. As for sound, get an oem Audigy 2 (or the 4 which is just a repackaged 2). It's not as good as the X-FI, but it will still use less processing power than onboard sound. Onboard sound will chew up ~15-19% of CPU (under load like gaming), whereas a PCI soundcard will sit at less than 5%.  Sonata II has an awesome internal design, powersupply and case, you may want to pick up a second 120mm silent case fan for the hard disk bays.

I'd suggest hitting a local store and test-driving a few keyboards/mice. I'm a fan of "natural" boards and the Saitek Eclipse. You can also get a G7 gaming mouse for teh cheap at NCIX (using newegg.com pricematches).

NCIX is predominantly a canadian site, so their canadian sales site is actually cheaper than the american side... but since they offer price matching you're laughing. Either way I've provided the newegg.com alt links so you're not restricted. Try to get a cheap shipping promo (NCIX had a "under 300lbs for 7.99 ground" shipping deal when I had my case, speakers and a monitor shipped). Also, the NCIX prices below are all based on reg. pricing; they have sales section updated weekly which I didn't use (as it changes so often).

Here's the rig I'd build: (in USD)

$ 139.99 PCIE eVGA 7600 GT CO - Pricematch with Newegg.com to get rebate right away.
$ 297.00 Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Dual Core S939 Manchester 2GHZ 512KBX2 90NM Retail - Pricematch with NewEgg.com
$ 117.00 ASUS A8N-SLI Motherboard ATX NFORCE4-SLI S939 DDR 2PCI-E16 2PCI-E 3PCI SATA RAID LAN Sound 1394 NewEgg.com is more expensive.
 OR
$ _80.00 ASRock 939SLI32-eSATA2 Socket 939 ULi M1697 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
$ 100.00 Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB SATA2 3GB/S 7200RPM 16MB Cache NCQ Hard Drive 99.99 in combo deals till jul.20 or NewEgg.com Pricematch
$ _48.50 Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 4 SE PCI 7.1 Surround Sound Card OEM Newegg.com doesn't carry this. (go with Audigy 2, it's the same basic thing)
$ 100.00 Antec Sonata II Black ATX 16IN Mid Tower Quiet Case 450W Air Duct 120MM Fan - Pricematch with NewEgg.com or combo with CPU at NCIX.
$ _37.00 BenQ DW1655 Lightscribe DVD+RW16X16X8 DVD-RW16X16X4 CDRW48X48X32 OEM DVD Black W/ SW - Pricematch with NewEgg.com
$ 100-150 1GB PC3200 2x512MB DUAL Channel RAM
$ 30-150 Keyboard / Mouse based on preference.

The remaining (I'll assume 100 for RAM and 50 for KBD/Mouse) is : 10 bux or 60bux (with the ASROCK). With taxes and shipping you'd have a system that will run oblivion REALLY WELL, the only thing missing is a monitor.

Quote
5. KD shows up at my house and delivers a paralyzing martial arts attack, leaving me incapacitated in a wheelchair for the rest of my life.


Monkey Steals the Peach.
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Clay
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« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2006, 10:30:50 PM »

Quote from: "Purge"

Quote
5. KD shows up at my house and delivers a paralyzing martial arts attack, leaving me incapacitated in a wheelchair for the rest of my life.


Monkey Steals the Peach.


 :shock:


 :shock:

Thanks for the thorough write-up.  I've been reading around about various components.  The damn frustrating thing about technology is that there is ALWAYS something new and better coming out.  Right now.  And I want it.  And I can't afford it.  But no computer or even a less-than-stellar computer is still no Monkey Steals the Peach.
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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2006, 08:10:48 PM »

The end of this month is when AMD is supposedly going to be cutting chip prices, wait a week or more you could have a better system.

Someone posted a thread with the expected cuts and the high end chips were to be cut more than 40% I think.
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Clay
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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2006, 01:11:22 PM »

Yeah, I sort of have to wait a week now.  My girlfriend's laptop had a melt down and needed emergency replacement for work purposes.  And she's in South Africa where they are uber expensive... So I just bought and configured one for her with her backup discs and FedEx'd it to S. Africa.  Freakin' expensive FedEx bill: $340.  Once we settle the laptop stuff when she returns, then I'll be back to this project.

Honestly, I had convinced myself that I didn't need a new rig until I watched the Portal video.  :shock: Now, I'm convinced that I do!  biggrin
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Clay
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« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2006, 12:34:26 PM »

I finally pulled the trigger on this and ordered the following through NewEgg and ZipZoomFly (with a small bit of input from Qt3):

- Processor: Core 2 Duo E6400 (775 - 2.13 GHz 2048K)
- Motherboard: Gigabyte P965 GA-965P-S3
- RAM: 2x1024MB Crucial PC2-6400 Ballistix
- Video Card: XFX PV-T71G-UCF7 GeForce 7900GT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 VIVO PCI Express x16 Video Card
- Hard Drive: Seagate 3.0Gbps 320GB 7200RPM 16MB Barracuda 7200.10
- DVD Drive/Burner: NEC ND-4570A
- Monitor: Acer AL1916WAbd Black 19" 5ms DVI Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2
- Case: Thermaltake Soprano VB1430BNS Mid Tower Case w/430 watt power supply
- Keyboard/Mouse: Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000 with Optical Mouse
- Speakers: Some cheap Logitech speakers (I can't hear well)

Total cost, including shipping: $1261.91

I could no longer sit by and read about all of the fantastic games coming out without taking part.  :p  With luck, it will all be here by the end of next week!
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« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2006, 04:32:21 PM »

Sounds good Clay!  That monitor is great, I have 3 of the non-widescreen variants of that exact one here, and I love them.  Wise choice leaving out a sound card, a few months ago I stripped all of the sound cards out of my boxes and went onboard and 99% of all crashes I got in games disappeared.. I won't be using creative sound cards ever again.  Gigabyte motherboards are great, I only use DFI or Gigabyte these days after a consistant string of ASUS boards dying, you'll love that board.

If you need build help, PM me, I will be glad to give you a ring.  Thats a great price, you saved a fortune building it yourself.
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Clay
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« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2006, 06:53:02 PM »

Hmm... I could have sworn that I posted a reply here...  Anyhow, is there any particular order that you usually follow when assembling a system from scratch?  If I have troubles I will take you up on your help offer.  Thanks!
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« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2006, 07:00:22 PM »

I put everything out on a table, then put in the die-cut motherboard punch that fits into the base where the various ports are in the back, then put the CPU on the motherboard, and the HSF onto the CPU, then put the mounts for the MB onto the base, then drop the MB in and add the ram.  Then I put in all of the drives, next the power supply, connect everything, then add the final cards in (graphic, etc).

Then post the system, config the bios, drop in the windows install CD and boot it up and away you go.

Do it all slow and methodically since this is your first time, and relax, and enjoy the experience, you really can't RUIN anything unless you are an absolute hammerhand, worst case, it won't post, and you have to go back and retrace your steps to find the mistake.  I've never fried a system on build in 20 years of building boxes.
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« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2006, 07:24:15 PM »

Quote from: Kobra on October 24, 2006, 07:00:22 PM

...
Then post the system, config the bios, drop in the windows install CD and boot it up and away you go.

Can you provide a bit more detail here?  What do I need in order to do this?  What exactly do you mean by 'post the system?'
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« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2006, 07:29:42 PM »

Basically turn the box on and make sure it "Posts" (boots) without any error code beeps and goes into bios.  At that point, I would select failsafe settings in the bios, and then manually examine each setting for accuracy.  Bios config can be the most confusing part for new system builders, and this is where you might need SOME assistance.

http://networking.ringofsaturn.com/PC/beep.php

Once you junk around in the bios, I usually proceed with windows installation on the HD.
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Clay
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« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2006, 04:26:44 PM »

Crap.  I guess I'm missing a 20 to 24 pin ATX power cable adapter.  I'm not sure I can buy one anywhere around here. 
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« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2006, 06:12:46 PM »

The power supply didn't have it?  My power supply (a 450W Antec) has all of the different power connectors so it will work with just about any motherboard. 
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« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2006, 06:28:06 PM »

Check to see if your powersupply has a 4pin cable that "snaps on" to the 20pin bulkhead connector.


Diagram 1A Tongue (look at top right)

Oh, and just to give you some technical jargon :

POST - Power-On Self-Test -it's what your computer does while the BIOS is starting up.
BIOS - Basic Input Output System -it is what your hardware uses "beneath the covers". Your Operating System (e.g. Windows) talks to it. There are devices which don't have BIOS between it and the OS's control, and this is (generally) for speed reasons.
CMOS - Complementary Metal-Oxide Semiconductor - you go into your CMOS setup to configure the BIOS.

Hope that helps a bit.

oh, one other thing : RTFM. Read The Freakin' Manual ... it will help you get through the BIOS config steps initially; it may answer questions for you down the road when you want to go and tweak or overclock. Manuals have gotten WAY better over the past 15 years. Most of them are in ENGLISH now, they used to be exclusively in ENGRISH.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2006, 06:37:32 PM by Purge » Logged

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Clay
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« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2006, 07:14:56 PM »

Thanks for the info.  I'm pretty sure that I don't have the 24-pin snap-on or anything...  However, Gigabyte claims that it is unnecessary.  I got the system to post after removing the connections to the MB and reconnecting.  Maybe somethingn was shorting the MB to the case? 

What types of things should I look to change in the CMOS/BIOS?  I went through them and they all looked ok to me.  I read the manuals, too.  :p
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« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2006, 07:55:09 PM »

Quote from: Clay on November 02, 2006, 07:14:56 PM

What types of things should I look to change in the CMOS/BIOS?  I went through them and they all looked ok to me.  I read the manuals, too.  :p

I wouldn't worry about BIOS changes if everything works like you want. 
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« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2006, 08:00:37 PM »

Here's a question -- the Windows installer only recognized my hard drive as 130 Gb when it is 320 Gb (or is supposed to be).  Thoughts about that?
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« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2006, 08:07:05 PM »

Quote from: Clay on November 02, 2006, 08:00:37 PM

Here's a question -- the Windows installer only recognized my hard drive as 130 Gb when it is 320 Gb (or is supposed to be).  Thoughts about that?

You need to update Windows to Service Pack 2 for it to see a HDD bigger than about 130 gigs.  Technically, I think it's SP-1 that fixes this issue, but you want SP-2 anyway. 
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Clay
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« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2006, 10:58:32 PM »

Hmm...  I'll have to slipstream my install disc, then.  For now, it will do.  Maybe I'll wait for Vista to make the change. 
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« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2006, 01:30:40 PM »

Everything seems fine...  I can play Oblivion, Titan Quest and Civ 4 all without a problem.  However, if I turn on the Antialiasing in Titan Quest, the computer locks up after 5 minutes or so.  Is that perhaps from an overheating graphics card?

One other thing: there are 2 large fans in the case - one in the front and one in the back - but only one spot to connect a case fan to the motherboard.  What should I do with the second fan?  Currently, it's not connected.
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« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2006, 01:46:52 PM »

Quote from: Clay on November 03, 2006, 01:30:40 PM

Everything seems fine...  I can play Oblivion, Titan Quest and Civ 4 all without a problem.  However, if I turn on the Antialiasing in Titan Quest, the computer locks up after 5 minutes or so.  Is that perhaps from an overheating graphics card?

One other thing: there are 2 large fans in the case - one in the front and one in the back - but only one spot to connect a case fan to the motherboard.  What should I do with the second fan?  Currently, it's not connected.

One of those fans should have a connector that will connect directly to the power supply.
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« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2006, 02:26:20 PM »

Well, they both do...  so can I plug one just into the motherboard without plugging it into the power supply and vice versa for the other?
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« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2006, 02:29:58 PM »

Quote from: Clay on November 03, 2006, 02:26:20 PM

Well, they both do...  so can I plug one just into the motherboard without plugging it into the power supply and vice versa for the other?


Exactly. 
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« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2006, 03:49:43 PM »

I'd suggest double-checking the manual... those buggers are sometimes in the wierdest places. to be sure, check your BIOS setup for the monitoring info (it should have current temp/voltage/fan speeds). There should be CPU fan speed, sometimes a PowerSupply one, and at least 1 if not 2 or 3 Chassis fan speed ratings. If any of them are ----- (blanked out) then there IS a connection on the board that you haven't found.  nod

Otherwise, just use the 4 pin powersupply adapter that it comes with. Drawing from the mainboard means that if you use a mainboard monitor software pack (generally comes on your driver disk) then you have more info. IIRC, in some cases it can control the fan speeds too. (board specific)
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