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Author Topic: Video Card Advice needed... AGP (and some low price mb/cpu talk)  (Read 436 times)
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notrich
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« on: November 04, 2011, 04:09:27 AM »

cross posted at the wanderers, but i figured more traffic was here...



After 3 years of wanting a new card but holding off until i buy a new system, it REALLY looks like no new system is in the cards for me.   My current computer was put together maybe around 2004(?): ooooold Athlon 64 , AGP 8x all-in-wonder-9600-pro-card.  It was never the greatest system but it held up well over the years... My only gaming disappointment was civ5, which prompted my search for a new video card (never realizing until much later that my cpu might be a problem with that game as well)



So... I started shopping around for AGP cards to go into my current old old box...

narrowed down between
Ati HD 3650 1gb ddr2
Ati HD 4350 512mb ddr3

I ended up buying the 4350 on amazon a few hours ago

it wasn't until i saw this website that I started getting serious buyers remorse
http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=585&card2=562

while they didn't have an AGP version of the 4350 to compare straight up, I was kind of shocked that the newer (lol !!!) Ati series video board would seem to have worse stats than the 3650


ATi Radeon HD 4350
Core Clock:   600 MHz
Shader Clock:   600 MHz
Memory Clock:   500 MHz (1000 DDR)
Memory Bandwidth:   8 GB/sec
FLOPS:   96 GFLOPS
Pixel Fill Rate:   2400 MPixels/sec
Texture Fill Rate:   4800 MTexels/sec

ATi Radeon HD 3650 AGP
Core Clock:   725 MHz
Shader Clock:   725 MHz
Memory Clock:   800 MHz (1600 DDR)
Memory Bandwidth:   25.6 GB/sec
FLOPS:   174 GFLOPS
Pixel Fill Rate:   2900 MPixels/sec
Texture Fill Rate:   5800 MTexels/sec


and then to top it all off all the user comments from 2 years ago on various sites saying neither were gaming cards!! lol

Luckily Amazon let me cancel the order...

Seriously... what would be a decent video card (for an old AMD 64 Athlon system)
i currently have this video card
http://www.gpureview.com/all-in-wonder-9600-pro-card-78.html

it plays all the games I want on lower settings: guildwars, lotr, team fortress 2 etc with almost no delay or problem (except once in a while Guildwars will make the screen go fuzzy).

my big disappointment is not being able to play civ V and some other newer games that require newer shaders or open gl 2.

while it is not a "gaming card" do you think the HD3650 would be worth purchasing?  (i have seen refurbs go for less than $50)

Also, what is the comparable nvidea card series- agp wise?

And before you say - buy a new computer or new mb and cpu, I just don't see that being a possibility for less than $100


Appreciate any comments on any of the cards above (former owners?) or recommendations for a reasonably priced upgrade that might let me give some of the newer games a try (shader 4 and gl2)

« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 01:17:36 PM by notrich » Logged
Calavera
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2011, 01:08:23 PM »

I think that getting an AGP card would be crazy at this point, you'll spend the money, but it won't go toward something you can use later. To get something better than what you already have you'll have to spend around $75 (HD4650), but it will still leave you in the same place you are now.

While you're right in that getting a system for less than $100 is crazy, but... If you can hold out and save up a little more, for around $110-140 you can get something more modern that has pci-express for the future. Current integrated cards should be in the same range as what you've already got.

Athlon II X2 270 plus a motherboard with an integrated nVidia 7025 for $95.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.764121

If you'd rather have the integrated AMD (880G chipset) its $20 more ($115), probably worth it - but finding reviews on integrated is near impossible.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.764120

Add 4GB of RAM (Kingston Value RAM) for around $23.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139659

(Add 2GB for $13 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139640 )

As of right now both combos and the ram have free shipping. If you can wait until the end of the month, Newegg usually puts together some good combos on the cheap and you might even be able to snag the same components for even closer to the $100 mark.
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notrich
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2011, 01:15:49 PM »

Quote from: Calavera on November 04, 2011, 01:08:23 PM

I think that getting an AGP card would be crazy at this point, you'll spend the money, but it won't go toward something you can use later.


Current integrated cards should be in the same range as what you've already got.
i absolutely understood that but i was hoping to get more life (even a year or two) out of my current computer for the 50-80 range (thinking that new mb and cpu combos would be in the $200-300 range).  The question then becomes:

spending 50-80 now and then getting  a new computer in a year or two
vs
spending 100-200 now and getting a new computer in a year or two

and that is the puzzler for me.

I would imagine those integrated video cards are better than my current card?  whoops missed you addressed that in my first read through


thanks for mentioning the CHEAP mb/cpu combos - i will have to think about it (my concern there is that I would simply be getting a better system anyways in a year or two - but you are right in the fact that at least i would be buying components that can transfer or were re-usable).

Quote from: Calavera on November 04, 2011, 01:08:23 PM

If you can wait until the end of the month, Newegg usually puts together some good combos on the cheap
would those be christmas specials you are talking about or normal new combos of the month?

for those that follow them - does newegg or tiger direct have a history of offering christmas clearance specials like the gaming sites? (i am referring to insane specials... your crazy not to buy them specials)


Also... can one of the vid card gurus comment on the spec comparison above?  am i reading it wrong that the hd3650 is the better performance card? between the two of them (never mind they wouldn't be considered "gaming" cards)

ps - my plan for any upgrade at this point is to keep running XP, harddrive, and using my big old box with a 500W PS.
ps2 - i think i saw on cnbc that either thailand flooding or japan earthquake will be affecting memory prices... anyone see that yet?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 01:48:54 PM by notrich » Logged
Calavera
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2011, 05:10:28 PM »

Quote from: notrich on November 04, 2011, 01:15:49 PM

Quote from: Calavera on November 04, 2011, 01:08:23 PM

I think that getting an AGP card would be crazy at this point, you'll spend the money, but it won't go toward something you can use later.


Current integrated cards should be in the same range as what you've already got.
i absolutely understood that but i was hoping to get more life (even a year or two) out of my current computer for the 50-80 range (thinking that new mb and cpu combos would be in the $200-300 range).  The question then becomes:

spending 50-80 now and then getting  a new computer in a year or two
vs
spending 100-200 now and getting a new computer in a year or two

and that is the puzzler for me.


If you buy the AM3 combo, you won't need to buy a new computer in a year or two unless you decide to switch to Intel. Just add a faster video card in the $175-$200 range (the integrated will disable itself automatically) and you'll be set. You might want to replace the processor then with a newer model, but you probably won't have to. AMD is very budget friendly and has been good about not changing sockets and making the new processors work with older sockets. In November 2008 I spent $314.96 to get a Phenom 9600 with an M3A/H-HDMI (free), GeForce 9800 GT and 4GB Corsair XMS. In Sept 2010 I spent $269.96 to replace the CPU and Video Card with a Phenom II X4 955 and a Radeon HD 5770. Usually I spend around $300 every 3 years or so to stay 'current'. The only reason I switched early was I had an original revision 9600 with the TLB bug which Win7 hated with a passion (you couldn't disable the performance killing fix). At some point recently I bought another 4GB of RAM as well, but that's because I started doing some development on this PC.

Quote
I would imagine those integrated video cards are better than my current card?  whoops missed you addressed that in my first read through


thanks for mentioning the CHEAP mb/cpu combos - i will have to think about it (my concern there is that I would simply be getting a better system anyways in a year or two - but you are right in the fact that at least i would be buying components that can transfer or were re-usable).

Quote from: Calavera on November 04, 2011, 01:08:23 PM

If you can wait until the end of the month, Newegg usually puts together some good combos on the cheap
would those be christmas specials you are talking about or normal new combos of the month?

for those that follow them - does newegg or tiger direct have a history of offering christmas clearance specials like the gaming sites? (i am referring to insane specials... your crazy not to buy them specials)


Also... can one of the vid card gurus comment on the spec comparison above?  am i reading it wrong that the hd3650 is the better performance card? between the two of them (never mind they wouldn't be considered "gaming" cards)

ps - my plan for any upgrade at this point is to keep running XP, harddrive, and using my big old box with a 500W PS.
ps2 - i think i saw on cnbc that either thailand flooding or japan earthquake will be affecting memory prices... anyone see that yet?

Yup. NewEgg usually runs a couple of complete system parts combos that are crazy good. The combo discounts are usually a little deeper than if you buy right now. The last couple of years you could find a CPU/MB Combo for the cost of the CPU (free mainboard). The CPU is usually something mid-range and the mainboard is usually a budget board from a good vendor (e.g. Asus). At some point, moving to Windows 7 or 8 would be a good idea to move to 64bit so you can throw more RAM at it, but you don't have to.
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namatoki
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2011, 05:49:20 PM »

I am building a new gaming PC this month and Newegg has a lot of specials going.  They are having some really good deals, but you need to subscribe to their newsletter.  It's Black November at Newegg! smile
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notrich
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 12:19:02 AM »

seriously

Thanks for the heads up guys... whenever i did a quick search in the past it made me think a new mb/cpu would be out of the question (i guess because most expensive comes to the top by default alot of the time)

I will sign up for the news letter but definitely post any good deals you might see (or pm me if you like)
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