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Author Topic: motherboard and cpu incompatibility issues  (Read 1402 times)
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notrich
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« on: August 30, 2012, 02:35:35 AM »

imagine my surprise after putting together a new machine (new parts anyways) to replace my 7+ yearold computer to find out it is slower than my old computer (acting like a dog when doing anything but websurfing)



when i bought my motherboard and cpu - i thought they were positioned in advertisements to work together (newegg).

but instead of 3.3Ghz i am getting 800Mhz  <--- this part might be answered now - idling mode?  but machine still acts like a dog in games

(update -  got the nvidea monitor program installed rock steady at 804mhz even when in LoL - at 4-10 fps - it should nudge up for that game right?)


   Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_gdr.120503-2030)
           Language: English (Regional Setting: Engrish)
System Manufacturer: BIOSTAR Group
       System Model: N68S3+
               BIOS: Default System BIOS
          Processor: AMD Phenom(tm) II X2 560 Processor (2 CPUs), ~800MHz
             Memory: 4096MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 4064MB RAM
          Page File: 1472MB used, 6652MB available
        Windows Dir: C:\Windows
    DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
   User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
 System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
    DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
     DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 64bit Unicode


doing a search online and it gave advice like "disable cool and quiet in bios"  but i can't find anything called cool and quiet in bios...

they also said to overclock itmanually by changing the multiplier NOT the buslink... but i don't see anything labeled multiplier (but i do see some buses i guess).


any of you pro overclockers want to weigh in with some advice for a newb?   i will be off to the internet to try and find out if there is an updated mb driver that recognizes the cpu better but i am not holding my breath.




http://www.biostar-usa.com/app/en-us/mb/introduction.php?S_ID=506&tab=3
Socket AM3
 Supports AMD Phenom II/Athlon II/Sempron Processors
 Hyper Transport Technology up to 2G
 Supports AMD Cool'n'Quiet Technology
 It is recommended to use 95w CPU


http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom%20II%20X2%20560%20-%20HDZ560WFK2DGM%20(HDZ560WFGMBOX).html


Quote
On socket AM2+/AM3 platforms in the minimum performance state the processor runs at 800 MHz / 0.875 - 1.05 Volt core voltage, and has TDP 35.3 Watt
hmmmm maybe i am missing something obvious?   is there a load tester utiliity out there?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 05:55:33 AM by notrich » Logged
Biyobi
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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2012, 09:08:59 PM »

From the manual describing the BIOS functions, the only thing I see is to disable the "PowerNow" option on the CPU Configuration screen to turn off Cool and Quiet.
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Calavera
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2012, 11:48:06 PM »

Your MB doesn't support that processor so it's clocking it as safe values. If you look on the CPU Support tab, the Phenom II X2 560 isn't listed.  You're not the only person to get caught by Newegg's deal:

Quote from: Newegg Review
BAD Combo Deal with X2 560
Pros: None.

Cons: I got this in a combo about a month, it came with a Phenom II X2 560. Be aware THIS IS NOT COMPATIBLE with that processor. No where did i read that it wasn't. It's the only processor in the Phenom II family that's not compatible. The only way to get the processor to work is to void the warranty( which I don't want to do) and "overclock"( really clocking it to what it needs to be) to get it to run anything over 803MHZ(not GHZ) I am VERY disappointed in this, I've never had problems with Newegg until now.

Other Thoughts: Contacted Newegg service, and they say they're not responsible for Combo deals that are not compatible, so why would they have combo deal on it? Not to mention, I would have to pay for the shipping to return the mobo to them.

Manufacturer Response:
Please see Biostar website for CPU support for this model.
http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/mb/introduction.php?S_ID=506

note: 803 MHZ may be AMD cool & quiet or what is now referred to as Power Now. A feature to save energy when the unit is not doing anything strenuous. If you don't like this feature, you can disable the "Power now" option in bios.

I love that the manufacture's response is partially bad information, it's not CnQ that is at fault, it's that the CPU isn't supported.

You're going to have to tell it the correct information because the BIOS doesn't know. Just set the multiplier to 16.5x and make sure HyperTransport is set to 2GHz and you should be good to go.

In your BIOS, it should work like this (based on the manual on their site, I don't have this board)
Under the Performance "tab" goto AMD Overclocking.
Set the Core FID to 16.5x if you can (according to the manual 14.5x is the highest)
Then set the NB FID to 2000 MHz.

That should get you close to the factory speed.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 11:56:23 PM by Calavera » Logged
notrich
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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2012, 06:09:11 AM »

Quote from: Calavera on September 01, 2012, 11:48:06 PM

Your MB doesn't support that processor so it's clocking it as safe values. If you look on the CPU Support tab, the Phenom II X2 560 isn't listed.  You're not the only person to get caught by Newegg's deal:

Quote from: Newegg Review
BAD Combo Deal with X2 560
Pros: None.

Cons: I got this in a combo about a month, it came with a Phenom II X2 560. Be aware THIS IS NOT COMPATIBLE with that processor. No where did i read that it wasn't. It's the only processor in the Phenom II family that's not compatible. The only way to get the processor to work is to void the warranty( which I don't want to do) and "overclock"( really clocking it to what it needs to be) to get it to run anything over 803MHZ(not GHZ) I am VERY disappointed in this, I've never had problems with Newegg until now.

Other Thoughts: Contacted Newegg service, and they say they're not responsible for Combo deals that are not compatible, so why would they have combo deal on it? Not to mention, I would have to pay for the shipping to return the mobo to them.

Manufacturer Response:
Please see Biostar website for CPU support for this model.
http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/mb/introduction.php?S_ID=506

note: 803 MHZ may be AMD cool & quiet or what is now referred to as Power Now. A feature to save energy when the unit is not doing anything strenuous. If you don't like this feature, you can disable the "Power now" option in bios.

I love that the manufacture's response is partially bad information, it's not CnQ that is at fault, it's that the CPU isn't supported.

You're going to have to tell it the correct information because the BIOS doesn't know. Just set the multiplier to 16.5x and make sure HyperTransport is set to 2GHz and you should be good to go.

In your BIOS, it should work like this (based on the manual on their site, I don't have this board)
Under the Performance "tab" goto AMD Overclocking.
Set the Core FID to 16.5x if you can (according to the manual 14.5x is the highest)
Then set the NB FID to 2000 MHz.

That should get you close to the factory speed.

thanks for your response... sorry i am so late in replying - crazy work schedule and computer seemed to improve to reasonable speed after adding a graphics card...

but still puzzeled by the 800mhz... even with gw2 in windowed mode never going higher... so i am going to try your settings.

but before i do, i understand we are going to try and set to 3300Mhz to "overclock" it to its max setting (when i went to performance it gave the option of setting it MUCH higher than 16.5 3300Mh) - where is the 2000Mhz coming from (2 processors at 1000 each or something else)?

if i tried 14.5x first as a test... what should i choose for the nid?


also... it looks like it is reporting the 803Mhz for each processor (2 core)... so am i really getting 1600Mhz?  or should they both be going at 3300?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 06:15:02 AM by notrich » Logged
Calavera
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« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2012, 10:39:35 AM »

Quote from: notrich on September 24, 2012, 06:09:11 AM

thanks for your response... sorry i am so late in replying - crazy work schedule and computer seemed to improve to reasonable speed after adding a graphics card...

That says something about the power of modern graphics cards...

Quote
but still puzzeled by the 800mhz... even with gw2 in windowed mode never going higher... so i am going to try your settings.

It's 800 MHz because that is AMD's "safe default". It's the lowest multiplier on the lowest bus setting. It's not Cool 'n' Quiet making the CPU slow, it's that your BIOS doesn't know what to correctly set the core/bus speeds at. It will never go higher than 800Mhz.

Quote
but before i do, i understand we are going to try and set to 3300Mhz to "overclock" it to its max setting (when i went to performance it gave the option of setting it MUCH higher than 16.5 3300Mh) - where is the 2000Mhz coming from (2 processors at 1000 each or something else)?

if i tried 14.5x first as a test... what should i choose for the nid?

"Back in the day", you would have to set the processor information manually with jumpers. You're just doing that in the BIOS (they don't have those jumpers anymore). We aren't overclocking: you're manually setting it to factory specs because your BIOS doesn't know what they should be automatically.

The factory specs for your processor are 3.3Ghz CPU speed (the "Core FID" setting of 16.5x) with a 2GHz HT bus (The "NB FID" setting of 2000MHz). If you set the "Core FID" setting to something less than 16.5x you should still set the "NB FID" setting to 2000MHz.

Quote
also... it looks like it is reporting the 803Mhz for each processor (2 core)... so am i really getting 1600Mhz?  or should they both be going at 3300?

Your CPU uses one clock frequency for all it's processors (cores). You're currently getting 800MHz and when you correct the settings you'll get 3300MHz for both.
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notrich
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2012, 05:01:29 AM »

Quote from: Calavera on September 24, 2012, 10:39:35 AM


Quote
but still puzzeled by the 800mhz... even with gw2 in windowed mode never going higher... so i am going to try your settings.

It's 800 MHz because that is AMD's "safe default". It's the lowest multiplier on the lowest bus setting. It's not Cool 'n' Quiet making the CPU slow, it's that your BIOS doesn't know what to correctly set the core/bus speeds at. It will never go higher than 800Mhz.

Quote
but before i do, i understand we are going to try and set to 3300Mhz to "overclock" it to its max setting (when i went to performance it gave the option of setting it MUCH higher than 16.5 3300Mh) - where is the 2000Mhz coming from (2 processors at 1000 each or something else)?

if i tried 14.5x first as a test... what should i choose for the nid?

"Back in the day", you would have to set the processor information manually with jumpers. You're just doing that in the BIOS (they don't have those jumpers anymore). We aren't overclocking: you're manually setting it to factory specs because your BIOS doesn't know what they should be automatically.

The factory specs for your processor are 3.3Ghz CPU speed (the "Core FID" setting of 16.5x) with a 2GHz HT bus (The "NB FID" setting of 2000MHz). If you set the "Core FID" setting to something less than 16.5x you should still set the "NB FID" setting to 2000MHz.

Yep I understand we aren't overclocking - that was why i put it in quotes.  Thanks very much for explaining stuff in detail.  The reason why i was considering "overclocking" at a lower rate (yes i suppose that would be underclocking)... was that if the mb wasn't able to set the highest rate then maybe it wouldn't work well at the highest rate... there was also a message saying something about if i overclocked and couldnt see the bios at load up that i would  need  to clear CMOS.

So i was thinking it might be better to take baby steps first - since this is my first time doing this.  Thanks for clearly explaining everything... I am working like a dog, so i might not be able to try it until the weekend.  I will try to update here how it goes.

Quote from: Calavera on September 01, 2012, 11:48:06 PM

Set the Core FID to 16.5x if you can (according to the manual 14.5x is the highest)
I was thinking of trying 14.5x first because manual said it was the highest... i wasn't sure by your quote if that was the highest possible setting or the highest possible safest setting.  Either way... i thought it might be better to start off smaller.

« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 05:03:59 AM by notrich » Logged
notrich
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« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2012, 05:02:16 AM »

ok... tried the 14.5x with no prob and then upped it to 16.5x with no prob so far... thanks again for the help.

trying to read more about overclocking... do some of these cpus have extra cores that might be viable to turn on?  or is it not worth the risk?

if i ignore the core part of this... what would be a reasonable  multiplier beyond 16.5 to try?  any links to a website with good info on overclocking appreciated - my googlefu often gets me into bad spots with bad info.


and to anyone interested in the progression of frames per sec in gw2.

processor at 800 and only onboard graphics:  <1 fps (had to login to the game to reserve my name - couldn't wait due to the bs short timelimit on names - it was brutal at 1 fps)

bought a 550 with 2gb w/processor at 800:  20-30ish fps (actually it might have been 15-25 - i honestly dont want to go back and check lol)

processor at rated 1650 (3300) w/graphics card: 50ish fps
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 05:09:53 AM by notrich » Logged
Calavera
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« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2012, 01:49:05 PM »

Quote from: notrich on September 29, 2012, 05:02:16 AM

ok... tried the 14.5x with no prob and then upped it to 16.5x with no prob so far... thanks again for the help.

No problem! Glad to hear everything is working for you.

Quote
trying to read more about overclocking... do some of these cpus have extra cores that might be viable to turn on?  or is it not worth the risk?

Nope. They changed the way they disable extra cores. If they disable extra cores, they can't be re-enabled (they laser cut the connections on the die).

Quote
if i ignore the core part of this... what would be a reasonable  multiplier beyond 16.5 to try?  any links to a website with good info on overclocking appreciated - my googlefu often gets me into bad spots with bad info.

I'd really recommend against it. HardOCP is the overclocking website I go to, their forums have reliable information. I don't overclock, however. The gains you'll get aren't really worth the risk you'll burn up your CPU.
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