PnP vs. Board Games vs. Cards

[unbreakable]

Is it just me, or does it seem more people are getting into board or card based games these days rather than the good ol fashioned PnP games?

I can see the great thing about the other two, namely not having trouble finding enough people, not needing a dedicated GM, and requiring far less of a time obligation.

[Semaj]

well honesatly, PnP requires a hge amount of time and people to agree to meet up for that time over the course of months sometimes.

A boardgame is everyone hanging out for 2-3 hours one day every now and then, and Cards is whoever shows up can play no problem.

It's a lot of convenience ot not catch on.

[fyedaddy]

Was hoping to see more responses to this thread so I'll put my money where my mouth is.

I love games. All kinds of games... and I love them equally. PnP requires so much more of an investment (time, mostly, unless you pick up more than the basic player handbook). It can also require so much more interaction or effort than your standard board or card game. I think it's often more time and investment than most people are willing to provide.

Board and card games are much easier to pick up and go, especially from a new player standpoint. It takes much less time and money to get rolling too (aside from the Fantasy Flight Games, most board games run approximately under $20 these days) plus it's just a one time purchase.

It's unfortunate that PnP games can be so intimidating to get started with but to each their own. I'd be more than happy to play a great board or card games instead of PnP if it meant not playing anything at all. I'll find good PnP players if I'm patient enough!  

[Chaz]

One of the other things PnP games have going against them is the amount of skill involved in playing and especially in running one.  With a board game, either it's good, or it's not, and the people playing it generally don't have a huge impact on its quality.  With PnP games, if the GM is awful, the system itself can't do a lot to fix that.  Conversely, a good GM can overcome even a terrible game system.

There's also a certain taint associated with PnP games, ie: only fat, stinky geeks play them.  Board games have that to a certain degree, but generally, a non-gamer can associate with what's going on.  Even more than that, many board games in a short period of time, and are generally less intimidating than your average RPG handbook (ASL aside).

[RedJak]

For me it is a time thing.  For a PnP there is a pretty good sized imbalance between the time the players put in vs. a GM.  You have to have a GM that is willing to do the "homework" required prior to playing.  I was spoiled by playing with a guy that had an incredible imagination and would design year long "seasons" for his campaign.  He put a lot of time into it and I couldn't see myself or current flock of friends doing so.  

A boardgame however requires taking the box somewhere and that is about all the preprep I need.

[Turtle]

This is one of the primary reason I switched to the Savage Worlds generic RPG rules.  The lead designer says right inside the book that the system is designed for working dads who don't have time to do all the homework before a game.

With it, I can just whip up stats and abilities on the fly without having to come up with massive stat blocks.

Still, our gaming group has shifted towards board and card games anyway, which isn't a bad thing considering how high quality these games are nowadays.

[fyedaddy]

This is one of the primary reason I switched to the Savage Worlds generic RPG rules.  The lead designer says right inside the book that the system is designed for working dads who don't have time to do all the homework before a game.

Savage Worlds? I don't think I've heard of that one before. Standard RPG handbook or are there additional source materials with them?

I've found multiple references on Google. Is it this?: http://www.dragonsfoot.org/sw/

[Farscry]

Yup, I'm a HUGE PnP fan, but getting the time to do it right isn't easy.  Fyedaddy and I have a game going with another friend that I'm the GM for, and the biggest obstacles are twofold:

1) me getting the time to prepare ahead of time for sessions when I'm not so burnt out from work/whatever that I'm falling asleep over my desk.

2) us getting the time scheduled for 3-4 hours to game with the third gentleman.

I don't have much trouble whipping up stats for critters and guys on the fly as a GM using 3.5, though.  Once I got used to the system enough to ballpark the power level of an appropriate encounter, I was able to do that fairly well.  Sometimes it's obvious that I'm improv'ing, others not so much.  Heck, sometimes trying to browse through my prepared npc's stats and such takes longer than just making up a reasonably appropriate number for the character/class.  

What's the difference with Savage Worlds?

[Semaj]

lol  We were discussing why soime things are way more popular than others.

For instance, thew amazing oppularity of games liek magic over minerature battling or PnP...

Well I guess for things like Magic, its because you can basically walk around with a deck in your bookbag and if someone else has one you can play a game for an hour or two with very little effort.

Now if you play Warhammer 40k... You're toting around an army which isnt light or simple.  If it falls through it's a lot more annoying.  I guess the same can be said for a bag of dice, character sheets, rulebooks etc.

Plus there is a time factor.  You cant just all meet up for lunch and get in a good session of anything PnP-like.  While you could fire up a game of something like Settlers of Catan and get it done with time to spare.

I also think if you could do PnP online better, people might be more apt to play.  of course if you are doign that you guys mine as well fire up a MMORPG or NWN and play that way.

[Turtle]

First, go to this page and download the Test Drive Rules 4.0, basically a free PDF that is pretty much the entire ruleset right there, including character creation.  The main things that are missing are more special case rules.

http://www.peginc.com/Games/Savage%20Worlds/Savage%20Worlds.htm

Savage Worlds is basically 1 book with just rules.  As a warning, they're based off miniature wargame rules, which is partially why they're so fast, so some things it does will seem odd to a pure role player.  They're also somewhat geared for more heroic action adventure games right out of the book, but tweaking is not only encouraged in the rules it's also the norm for the setting books.

The publisher has gone on record saying that they won't be printing fifty books for the same setting and making their settings too unweildy to use.  You'll need just the main rulebook, a setting book (or a setting of your own) and maybe an optional side book or pdf adventure.

The key reason why it's so fast, at least for the GM, is that everything's rated the same way.  Just 5 attributes and a set of skills that are rated in about 5 steps.  It's really easy to think up an entire stat line, and the stat lines take up about a paragraph instead of an entire page that D&D does.

As for the topic, the reasons why things are more popular are pretty simple and we've already covered most of them.  It's just a sign of the times too, with everything being so fast paced nowadays.  It's just easier to fire of a cooperative video game than to setup an RPG session.  That said, who knows what the future will bring.  Maybe a full VR system and thinking computers will help role playing come back big time with fully interactive GMed VR campaigns.  But it's somewhat doubtful it'll still be called role playing.

[JohnathanStrange]

I have to go with card games primarily because they're the easiest to find enough players for and often the most accessible to new players. They don't have to think of themselves as "gamers" so there's no mindset (?) against their playing.

I prefer boardgames if the group is more obviously gathered for a certain amount of time and purpose. If we meet some Friday or Saturday, I'll play virtually any boardgame. Last week, we played Caylus.  I thought that was fun and really easy to get into.

PnP gaming: It's going to probably stay just history for me. Ironically though, it was the most fun but frankly too dependent on the nature of the players involved. I doubt that I could get a group such as the one I was involved with in high school. I used to think every gamer should have tried PnP gaming at some point.

[unbreakable]

Someone should come out with a multi player card game on the DS...