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Author Topic: Legendary - Marvel Deck Building Game (now with DC Deck Building impressions)  (Read 4189 times)
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Bullwinkle
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« on: November 16, 2012, 07:32:02 PM »

Legen--Don't wait for it.  It's out in many stores right now.  Go get it, 'cause it's really great.

There's a little bit of Thunderstone in it (the villains march across the city space by space until they get to the final spot and escape, possibly with bystanders).  There's a bit of Ascension (the hero cards you can buy are lined up randomly for purchase, when you take one you replace it; also, there are two resources for buying or fighting and you can use both of them in a turn to buy or fight as many cards as you can).  There's even a bit of Nightfall (there are combos you can pull off thanks to icons on the hero cards and wound cards that get added to your deck, but aren't always a hindrance [especially if you've got the Hulk in play]).

But it's also brings its own uniqueness to the table.  There's an over master villain who you have to defeat 5 times to win.  Each time you defeat him, a new card is turned up for him with its own set of rules.  He has a scheme, which is its own card that comes with its own set of rules, too.  But a scheme twist might come up in the villain deck, which will have another affect, depending on the scheme.  If a master strike card is turned over, the master villain deigns to come into the city and perform his own attack.

And it's got solo rules that are actually pretty decent.  I've only played solo so far (Hulk, Cap and Thor vs Red Skull and Hydra), but hope to try a 2 player game tonight.  I had a blast, and you can tell right out of the gate that this is a good design.

If you've played any Deck Building game, it'll be very easy to pick up.  And it's a ton of fun.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 01:43:29 PM by Bullwinkle » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2012, 08:42:29 PM »

My copy arrived yesterday and I played a solo game last night.  

The verdict's still out as my first solo game was pretty easy and I was about to give up on it (in spite of the favorable reviews)...until I realized I'd played 2 major things in a completely wrong way (the way superpowers are handled and the way a scheme twist was enacted for the scheme I played).  I'm going to whip it out tomorrow at a friend's place though.  And I'll probably try again tonight with a solo game (and a beer or 4).  

I'm more a DC fan than a Marvel one, but the DC DBG coming out in a few weeks seems to be getting mediocre to bad reviews so far from demo players.
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2012, 10:08:40 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on November 16, 2012, 08:42:29 PM

My copy arrived yesterday and I played a solo game last night.  

The verdict's still out as my first solo game was pretty easy and I was about to give up on it (in spite of the favorable reviews)...until I realized I'd played 2 major things in a completely wrong way (the way superpowers are handled and the way a scheme twist was enacted for the scheme I played).  I'm going to whip it out tomorrow at a friend's place though.  And I'll probably try again tonight with a solo game (and a beer or 4).  

I'm more a DC fan than a Marvel one, but the DC DBG coming out in a few weeks seems to be getting mediocre to bad reviews so far from demo players.

I'm in the same camp, DC vs Marvel-wise, and have heard the same thing.

Also, some of the villain/hero combinations are easier or harder than some others.  And don't miss the rules in the back for increasing the challenge.

I played again with my daughter tonight, and we had a blast.  So far, I think it's a really great game.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 04:06:18 AM by Bullwinkle » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2012, 01:04:26 PM »

I played another solo game last night and won very easily again.  I made sure I was playing it correctly as well.  I went back and watched reviews again and noted that no one has ever claimed to lose (although some claim to come close...which has not been my experience so far).  I'm going to try a 2 and 3 player game later today, but if I'm still getting zero sense that I could possibly fail, I'm going to be disappointed.   icon_cry
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« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2012, 02:56:26 PM »

Picked this up last night, hopefully playing it today
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2012, 02:57:36 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on November 17, 2012, 01:04:26 PM

I played another solo game last night and won very easily again.  I made sure I was playing it correctly as well.  I went back and watched reviews again and noted that no one has ever claimed to lose (although some claim to come close...which has not been my experience so far).  I'm going to try a 2 and 3 player game later today, but if I'm still getting zero sense that I could possibly fail, I'm going to be disappointed.   icon_cry

Keep in mind that even if the chance of outright losing is low, you're still competing with the other players for points (ala dominion, etc)
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2012, 03:24:19 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on November 17, 2012, 02:57:36 PM

Quote from: hepcat on November 17, 2012, 01:04:26 PM

I played another solo game last night and won very easily again.  I made sure I was playing it correctly as well.  I went back and watched reviews again and noted that no one has ever claimed to lose (although some claim to come close...which has not been my experience so far).  I'm going to try a 2 and 3 player game later today, but if I'm still getting zero sense that I could possibly fail, I'm going to be disappointed.   icon_cry

Keep in mind that even if the chance of outright losing is low, you're still competing with the other players for points (ala dominion, etc)

You are meant to keep score in a solo game as well.

And, again, you can make the game more challenging for yourself, if you're finding it too easy.
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« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2012, 05:30:29 PM »

Two multiplayer games yesterday.  It was MUCH better than the solo outings I had with the game.  We played against Loki during the first one and we won...but checking the villain deck, we discovered we won by one card.  I think Legendary shines most when played as intended:  a COMPETITIVE coop game. 

That being said, the great thing about the game is that they can release villans and schemes crafted for solo play. 

So, my solo experiences aren't that great with the game and I'll probably stick to Thunderstone Advance and Mage Knight for now when I want my solo boardgaming fix.  But, I still think there's a great Ascension killer in Legendary. 
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« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2012, 05:45:36 PM »

So, in multi, you are playing against the villain deck but also against each other?
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« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2012, 06:29:52 PM »

Quote from: Misguided on November 18, 2012, 05:45:36 PM

So, in multi, you are playing against the villain deck but also against each other?

It's semi-co-operative.

You have to make sure the villain doesn't win or you both lose, but each villain you defeat (and bystander you save) goes into your personal victory pile and they're each worth a certain number of victory points.  Whoever has the most VP at the end wins.
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« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2012, 06:59:33 PM »

Thanks, moose.

I just ordered a copy after reading a couple of previews. I plan to make it a Christmas present for my son. It sounds a lot like Ascension, which we are very familiar with, but with a bit more strategy required when deciding what cards to acquire. Love the supers theme. I like that the theme is enhanced with the masterminds/schemes, which also add more variety to the game. I think it would be even cooler if the villain and scheme were secret when the game begins and were somehow discovered as you play, but understand why that wouldn't work (because of the way the decks are constructed).

I could see them doing some really cool things with expansions. For instance they could have entire campaigns where you play against different mm/schemes in sequence.
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« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2012, 07:41:57 PM »

You could randomly choose a mastermind at the beginning of the game, of course.  And a scheme.  But, yeah, both of those choices affect how the Villain deck is constructed.

You could also randomly choose and then keep them a surprise for your son, which might be fun. But who you're fighting might affect your choice of heroes.
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2012, 02:15:49 PM »

How to play

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRs_ShVTM5Y
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« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2012, 01:42:54 PM »

I picked up the DC Deckbuilding game.  I haven't played it yet, but I do have some thoughts after reading the rules.

If the Marvel game is like Ascension with a bunch of added flourishes to make it feel more epic, the DC game is even more like Ascension but stripped down. 

There is only one currency.  Power.  This is fine, normally, but it does seem odd that you use the same element to both buy things and defeat villains.  You also start the game with dead weight (like in Dominion), but these cards don't have any benefit at all.  No power, no victory points.  They are literally just cards you should try to be rid of as soon as possible.  You can gain other dead weight cards over the course of the game, too.

The game ends when you run through the Super Villain pile (Ra's always starts and there are 7 of the 12 to go through underneath).  These villains cost a lot more power to defeat, so it seems more likely that you'll end the game the other way, by running through the deck.  Since there's no random element to the deck, it seems like you'll see the same cards every game.  I could be wrong about running through the super villains, though. It could be that in the endgame, that becomes much more common.

You play as a hero, who gives you some benefits (Batman gets +1 power for any equipment card he uses; Flash gets to draw an extra card any time a card tells him to draw cards, plus he goes first), but you buy/defeat (which is really buy) cards that have other heroes and villains on them and that makes up your deck.

The whole thing seems like a game with a DC theme instead of a DC game.  Marvel is the clear victor in this area.  And I have a feeling it'll make all the difference, sales-wise.

However, if this had come out first, I think it would have been more accepted.  A streamlined Ascension could be a good thing.  The game is incredibly quick to set up (especially compared to Marvel), quick to explain, and seems like it'll be quick to play, too.  While the theme doesn't seem like it'll lend itself to the epic story feel that Legendary does, it's still there.  They've tried to make the starting heroes make sense, and some of the cards I've seen do, too.

I know some people who roll their eyes at Dominion because it's too complicated (which it isn't at all, of course).  The theme is also a little dry for some.  This could work for that crowd.  If it had come out a year ago, it would have had a major impact on bringing Deck Building to the masses.  I don't think the game is only for them, though.  I think it could be a fun, quick filler game.  It's not a must-have, but I look forward to actually playing it.
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« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2012, 05:01:16 PM »

Does Marvel take that long to set up? I guess because you have to separate out all the different cards... I've bought it as a Christmas present, so haven't played yet.

The way you describe DC, it sounds like Ascension lite. Ascension doesnt need to be any lighter, though.
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« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2012, 09:48:03 PM »

It takes between 5-10 minutes to setup Legendary, and about the same to resort when done.  Sleeving the 500 cards was the biggest pain for me slywink

I really enjoy the game, it feels like someone played Dominion and Ascension and picked and chose the best parts then threw that together with a Marvel theme that actually fit. 
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« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2012, 01:59:55 AM »

Looking forward to playing it. Maybe they'll make an iOS version as well.
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« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2012, 03:05:55 AM »

Sigh...I just found out I'm getting the dc deck builder for Christmas from a family member.  I hope it's at least a little fun.
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« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2012, 04:26:26 AM »

Some have complained about the Marvel set up time.  It doesn't seem bad to me, but it is certainly longer than this DC game will be.

Hep, I do think this game will be entertaining if you go in with the right mindset.
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« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2012, 04:14:07 PM »

I hope so.  I was trying to update my Amazon wishlist but I didn't get to it in time.   icon_wink

Fortunately, someone DID buy me a copy of Through the Ages, though.
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« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2012, 01:09:28 PM »

Got a chance to play this tonight, and it's pretty much as I thought.

We did get through the Super Villain deck a lot faster than the Main Deck, though, so there's no worry of seeing the same cards every time.  The Main Deck is huge.  That said, we did have a few moments where there were a couple of Banes in the line up, and at one point there were three Super Speeds.  This could be due to lousy shuffling, though (again, that deck is massive).

My daughter was really enjoying the theme, but it's not as integrated into the mechanics as it is in Legendary.  If anything, there's a disconnect from it while playing.  However, they really did a pretty good job of making the various abilities of the cards make sense, thematically.  Super Strength, for example, gives you a lot of power.  Green Arrow's Bow lets you defeat any villain for two fewer power.  Playing Robin will let you pull a piece of equipment from your discard pile, and since Batman gives you a power bonus when using equipment, Robin's a really useful card.  Of course, he can pull out a power ring instead of the Bat Signal, and that's where the theme crumbles.

However, it doesn't matter in the end, because it's a really fast moving game.  At first it seemed like some cards were a little too powerful, but then I realized that they're all pretty powerful.  Add that to a streamlined version of an already quick moving game (Ascension), and you can imagine how fast this moves.

In the end, I had a lot of fun.  We'll definitely play it again. 

NOTE: One big difference between DC and Ascension is that you don't refill the row as you buy/defeat cards.  You only do it after your turn.  Since we were sometimes buying up half the row on a single turn by the end of the game, this makes some sense.  I can imagine scenarios where someone could go on a near endless buying spree.
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« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2012, 12:42:45 AM »

Played two games of the dc deck builder this afternoon.  You were right, it is kind of fun.  I think legendary has more meat, but dc feels like "speed ascension".  It fills a nice spot for quick gaming.
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« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2013, 11:21:10 PM »

There's a reskin of DC DB for LOTR: Fellowship, etc. that comes out tomorrow.

There's a bit more to it than a reskin, of course (ambushes, leveled villains, a sealed pack of nightmare scaled villains that should only be opened once everyone is skilled enough), but it's the same engine (called Cerebus) and from the same company.

Cheap as it is, I ordered a copy and should have it in a couple of days.
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« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2013, 01:35:24 AM »

I was able to enjoy the DC deck builder for about 4 games.  After that, I can't imagine going back to it.  There's just...very little there.  I tried to find a spot for it as filler like I mentioned above, but I've got way too many games that do it far better.   

I would recommend FFG's LotR card game instead of something using the same game engine if you're looking for that theme.
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« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2013, 03:36:24 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on March 28, 2013, 01:35:24 AM

I was able to enjoy the DC deck builder for about 4 games.  After that, I can't imagine going back to it.  There's just...very little there.  I tried to find a spot for it as filler like I mentioned above, but I've got way too many games that do it far better.   

I would recommend FFG's LotR card game instead of something using the same game engine if you're looking for that theme.

I couldn't stand the LotR Living Card game (liked the Star Wars one, though).

The DC DB is filler, pure and simple.  When my daughter and I have a few minutes, but not a ton and we don't want to put a lot of thought into the playing, it fits the bill.  No question that you can't play it endlessly, though.  We've been taking a breather ourselves.

But as for the LotR version, it's a subject she enjoys more, and they seem to have added just enough layers to make it a minor but interesting change.

Still, if these things were more expensive, I doubt I'd be giving them much time.
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« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2013, 03:57:51 PM »

All my game money is going into Malifaux right now so I'm seriously behind on my boardgaming hobby.    tear
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« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2013, 05:09:24 AM »

Got the expansion for Legendary, but haven't had the chance to sleeve it up and go for a spin.
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« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2013, 04:11:17 PM »

I actually have it set up on the table in front of me right now!  It's a good way to keep my daughter entertained during the hotter days (this week is kind of brutal).
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