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Author Topic: IGE Banner Ad  (Read 11079 times)
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dbt1949
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« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2005, 08:00:48 PM »

So you have to trust them to trade your bought items to you? What about this emailing you're talking about?How do you then add that to your character?

Edit:You mean they give you the account number and password?
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« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2005, 08:09:06 PM »

In game, you can go to a mailbox and send another person in the game gold or items.  The people at IGE and sites like it have employees that work round the clock to gather gold and items.  You as a user can go into the site and request a certain number of items or gold for a real money price.  They will then transfer that money or item via the in-game mailbox to your character.  Make sense?
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« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2005, 08:19:48 PM »

Okay. :wink:  Sounds like it would be easy enough for the developers to control then if they cared to. :wink:
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« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2005, 09:05:39 PM »

The devs try and control it, something like this:

My character in WoW is Morbis. I go out and play 50 hours a week and accumulate 5000 gold.  I then spend some, give a few thousand to people I know cuz I'm nice.

Another dude in WoW is Tal. Tal goes out and plays 50 hours a week and accumulates 5000 gold. People send Tal $20 real life cash money for one thousand of it. Tal disperses 4000 gold that way, and spends the rest himself.

When WoW devs look at activity logs, they both look the same...Morbis isn't breaking the EULA, but Tal is.  I'm sure the devs get notified automatically when someone has acquired X amount of gold wihtin Y timeframe. Then they look into it. If there aren't any other factors involved, they really can't tell by the activity log itself.

Blizzard has banned a lot of account since it's inception because of that type of thing, but the reality is as long as there is money to be made, people will farm and sell stuff.
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« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2005, 09:05:44 PM »

Quote from: "DamageInc"
It is no different then printing more money. It creates inflation.

Guess the game mechanics are the real problem then.
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« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2005, 11:27:47 PM »

Blizzard may also go and buy some themselves to ferret out which accounts are being used to sell the gold.  I'd imagine that the gold farmers for profit  are onto this by now and send funds through several accounts before distribution in order to retain the Level 60 accounts they use to farm.
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« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2005, 01:45:15 AM »

What I don't get is the staffs rather severe reaction. Why not just say "Thank you for your feedback, it will be taken into consideration next time we rotate our ads". Boom, you're done and it's not a big deal. I'm sure there would still be a debate on MMO economics, but the site side would be over. By reacting the way yall did, as though it's a personal offense to even complain, you turn it into a controversy.

As for the ads themselves, meh...I hate the gold farmers in WoW. They really do screw up the economy and they're very annoying when you're trying to farm an area for a quest or reputation. But, I have AdBlock so now I don't even have to see it.
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« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2005, 03:18:13 AM »

Quote from: "godhugh"
What I don't get is the staffs rather severe reaction. Why not just say "Thank you for your feedback, it will be taken into consideration next time we rotate our ads". Boom, you're done and it's not a big deal. I'm sure there would still be a debate on MMO economics, but the site side would be over. By reacting the way yall did, as though it's a personal offense to even complain, you turn it into a controversy.

As for the ads themselves, meh...I hate the gold farmers in WoW. They really do screw up the economy and they're very annoying when you're trying to farm an area for a quest or reputation. But, I have AdBlock so now I don't even have to see it.


I'll jump on the sword - the only person that has had a 'severe reaction' as you put it, is me.  Its probably due to the fact that the only one paying the bill is me.  So yea, it is a little irritating when I have a chance to make some cash that I could reinvest into the site to make it bigger, the first real opportunity since very few click on the ads I've ran in the past, and apparently its taboo enough for people to have the "I'm taking my ball and leaving" attitude.  You want to talk about a severe reaction?  I think thats a more accurate representation.  I do appreciate the feedback, but the personal demonization has me a little chafed.  You'd swear that I was personally spreading hate crimes with some people's reaction to an ad that makes money, doesn't flash, doesn't make sound, and doesn't have to be clicked.
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« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2005, 04:11:16 AM »

I thought about saying something....

then I decided that it'd be much more enjoyable to say it to KD, and stay out of trouble at the same time. biggrin
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« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2005, 04:29:36 AM »

I give up.  You win.  I made a commitment until the end of the month, but the ads will go away on January 1.  Just so all the cards are on the table, I'm giving up over $10,000 in ad revenue because you, my readers, think the ad is wrong.
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« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2005, 04:39:36 AM »

KD, I sent you an email.
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godhugh
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« Reply #51 on: December 18, 2005, 04:52:25 AM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"

I'll jump on the sword - the only person that has had a 'severe reaction' as you put it, is me.  Its probably due to the fact that the only one paying the bill is me.  So yea, it is a little irritating when I have a chance to make some cash that I could reinvest into the site to make it bigger, the first real opportunity since very few click on the ads I've ran in the past, and apparently its taboo enough for people to have the "I'm taking my ball and leaving" attitude.  You want to talk about a severe reaction?  I think thats a more accurate representation.  I do appreciate the feedback, but the personal demonization has me a little chafed.  You'd swear that I was personally spreading hate crimes with some people's reaction to an ad that makes money, doesn't flash, doesn't make sound, and doesn't have to be clicked.


I hate to say it Ron, but you need to toughen up. Someone criticizing the site isn't a personal attack against you. I haven't read a single post where someone said "Ron, I don't like YOU because you're running this ad".

It was a criticism of something the site is doing. While you may be the one who made that decision, when a user complains they're not thinking of that. They're thinking of the site as a seperate entity. I'm sure Demos didn't want to attack you personally, but they felt strongly enough about the issue to say something.

Anyway, that's just my personal opinion. I respect what you've done and I respect that you need to make money in order to improve your site. If you want to talk about it some more, feel free to shoot me a PM.
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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2005, 04:56:21 AM »

KD, money talks period. We currently lack it, the ad helps the site, and it doesn't involve pr0n or McGriddles. Personally, I vote to keep the ad as it will be a financial boon to keep the site running all because some people have a distaste for an ad that, contrary to popular belief, deals with a game that NOT EVERY ONE PLAYS.

/vent off

I also cannot think of a way to say what else I want to without pissing off the entire reader base, so I will refrain. But this ad will help keep our site up and running and everyone on staff has given up far too much blood, sweat, and tears to see it fall apart over something that is, to be honest, more than a little trivial in the grand scheme of things.
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« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2005, 04:58:17 AM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
I give up.  You win.  I made a commitment until the end of the month, but the ads will go away on January 1.  Just so all the cards are on the table, I'm giving up over $10,000 in ad revenue because you, my readers, think the ad is wrong.


Didn't see this when I was typing my reply....

Don't try to play the guilt trip on the people who voiced their opinions. Like it or not this site is as much theirs as it is yours. Your reply here is very patronizing and frankly, a little bit petty.

Like I said above, I really do respect everything you've accomplished. I know how hard it is to run a website and keep it updated. But, that said, you're responding to this in entirely the wrong fashion.
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« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2005, 05:00:12 AM »

To throw in my two cents, also without pissing off people (hopefully)..

1)  The ad doesn't require a click.
2)  The ad isn't flashing.
3)  The ad is silent
4)  The ad isn't a popup, pop-under, or pop-through.
5)  The ad is about as non-intrusive as it gets.
6)  The ad can pay for a good portion of the site's needs by itself.

Oh, and 7?  

If you don't like it that much, we -do- have a Paypal link on the front page.  Donate.  We get enough donations, we don't need ads, y'dig?

Seriously, name an independant site (which we still are, as IGE isn't paying -me- any money to pimp anything) that doesn't run ads worse than ours?  Personally, I'd rather take ours over IGNs, Gamespots, et al.

KD?  Here's my vote for keeping the IGE ad, at least through our current commitment.   You do what you have to do to keep us going.
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« Reply #55 on: December 18, 2005, 05:01:09 AM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
KD, money talks period. We currently lack it, the ad helps the site, and it doesn't involve pr0n or McGriddles. Personally, I vote to keep the ad as it will be a financial boon to keep the site running all because some people have a distaste for an ad that, contrary to popular belief, deals with a game that NOT EVERY ONE PLAYS.

/vent off

I also cannot think of a way to say what else I want to without pissing off the entire reader base, so I will refrain. But this ad will help keep our site up and running and everyone on staff has given up far too much blood, sweat, and tears to see it fall apart over something that is, to be honest, more than a little trivial in the grand scheme of things.


I don't get it. How is this more then trivial? Unless you are all being deluged with e-mails and PM's from offended users I count maybe 7-10 people who've complained. It yall's reactions that are turning this into a major controversy.

Color me confused  :?
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« Reply #56 on: December 18, 2005, 05:03:17 AM »

Quote from: "godhugh"
Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
I give up.  You win.  I made a commitment until the end of the month, but the ads will go away on January 1.  Just so all the cards are on the table, I'm giving up over $10,000 in ad revenue because you, my readers, think the ad is wrong.


Didn't see this when I was typing my reply....

Don't try to play the guilt trip on the people who voiced their opinions. Like it or not this site is as much theirs as it is yours. Your reply here is very patronizing and frankly, a little bit petty.

Like I said above, I really do respect everything you've accomplished. I know how hard it is to run a website and keep it updated. But, that said, you're responding to this in entirely the wrong fashion.


Hey, Godhugh?  This site is KD's.  Period.

He pays the money.  He foots the bill.  It's in his name.  

He's providing those of us who work for him with the opportunity to gain rather valuable experience and industry contacts as well as getting some free things now and again, primarily the games we review.  

He doesn't have to do any of it.  He certainly doesn't have to have a forum where, quite honestly, just about anyone can say just about anything they want and he doesn't stomp down on it.

So, ultimately, the site is his.  Not mine, not yours, not anyone else's.  We're all guests here.
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« Reply #57 on: December 18, 2005, 05:05:29 AM »

Quote from: "Zarkon"

Hey, Godhugh?  This site is KD's.  Period.


No, not really. If people didn't visit it wouldn't matter in the least what Ron posted. They're just as important to the success of the site as Ron, and the rest of staff, is.

That's not meant as an attack or a put-down. It's just the way it is. OO is the same way, how good would the forum be if no one visited?
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« Reply #58 on: December 18, 2005, 05:07:09 AM »

Quote from: "godhugh"
Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
KD, money talks period. We currently lack it, the ad helps the site, and it doesn't involve pr0n or McGriddles. Personally, I vote to keep the ad as it will be a financial boon to keep the site running all because some people have a distaste for an ad that, contrary to popular belief, deals with a game that NOT EVERY ONE PLAYS.

/vent off

I also cannot think of a way to say what else I want to without pissing off the entire reader base, so I will refrain. But this ad will help keep our site up and running and everyone on staff has given up far too much blood, sweat, and tears to see it fall apart over something that is, to be honest, more than a little trivial in the grand scheme of things.


I don't get it. How is this more then trivial? Unless you are all being deluged with e-mails and PM's from offended users I count maybe 7-10 people who've complained. It yall's reactions that are turning this into a major controversy.

Color me confused  :?


We have a readership that numbers well over 1000, and complaints from 7-10 of those readers regarding an ad that stands to make our site $10K in revenue which will ensure the site stays up. That is what I call trivial, but it is entirely to Ron's credit that he takes EVERY complaint personally because this site is first and foremost his. It does not belong to you, nor me, nor anyone else on the intrawebs. Running a website is expensive as hell these days, and with a homegrown database as extensive and large as ours, requires a hefty amount of cash to keep afloat.

Were this my site, I'd have told everyone by now to get past it and understand that this was a business decision, period. But as I just work here, that's not my place. slywink
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« Reply #59 on: December 18, 2005, 05:07:18 AM »

Folks?  We need to stop.  Now.  Myself included.

There's only one post I've read that says "I'll leave if this ad is up."  You know what?  That's fine.  I can live with it.  

I think the rest of us, myself included, need to step back and relax.  I'm also requesting that a mod please lock this thread, as it's not in the least constructive to any of us.  Especially with everything going on behind the scenes (no, I'm not going into details), everyone's a bit frayed right now.  

Godhugh?  I meant no offense by anything I said, and I can all but guarantee that KD didn't either.  Please lay off.  KD?  Keep the ad.  Please.

Everyone else?  Have a Merry Christmas, and just relax.  Please.

Jason Ballew
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« Reply #60 on: December 18, 2005, 05:10:28 AM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
Quote from: "godhugh"
Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
KD, money talks period. We currently lack it, the ad helps the site, and it doesn't involve pr0n or McGriddles. Personally, I vote to keep the ad as it will be a financial boon to keep the site running all because some people have a distaste for an ad that, contrary to popular belief, deals with a game that NOT EVERY ONE PLAYS.

/vent off

I also cannot think of a way to say what else I want to without pissing off the entire reader base, so I will refrain. But this ad will help keep our site up and running and everyone on staff has given up far too much blood, sweat, and tears to see it fall apart over something that is, to be honest, more than a little trivial in the grand scheme of things.


I don't get it. How is this more then trivial? Unless you are all being deluged with e-mails and PM's from offended users I count maybe 7-10 people who've complained. It yall's reactions that are turning this into a major controversy.

Color me confused  :?


We have a readership that numbers well over 1000, and complaints from 7-10 of those readers regarding an ad that stands to make our site $10K in revenue which will ensure the site stays up. That is what I call trivial, but it is entirely to Ron's credit that he takes EVERY complaint personally because this site is first and foremost his. It does not belong to you, nor me, nor anyone else on the intrawebs. Running a website is expensive as hell these days, and with a homegrown database as extensive and large as ours, requires a hefty amount of cash to keep afloat.

Were this my site, I'd have told everyone by now to get past it and understand that this was a business decision, period. But as I just work here, that's not my place. slywink


Then we mostly agree smile. I think the complaint was mostly trivial as well, it's been staff reaction to it that hasn't been trivial.
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« Reply #61 on: December 18, 2005, 05:32:43 AM »

Quote from: "Zarkon"
I'm also requesting that a mod please lock this thread, as it's not in the least constructive to any of us.


I don't like the idea of that.  If people want to discuss the ad why shouldn't they?  It has ruffled a few feathers but there could be some constructive thoughts to come out of it and a chance for the readers to understand the situation better.  

Censoring the discussion would be far more controversial than the ad in question.
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« Reply #62 on: December 18, 2005, 05:34:57 AM »

I'm not talking about censoring the discussion.  I'm saying more that what's happened so far is -not- constructive.  That was all.
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« Reply #63 on: December 18, 2005, 05:41:21 AM »

Quote from: "Zarkon"
I'm not talking about censoring the discussion.  I'm saying more that what's happened so far is -not- constructive.  That was all.


I can agree with that.  I just didn't want to see a lock throw even more fuel on the fire.

Keep up the great work GT staff!
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« Reply #64 on: December 18, 2005, 06:07:48 AM »

Ok, uh, wow (no pun intended).

I can't speak for Ron, but I'm willing to bet he's kind of defensive about the ad because, as a gamer, he probably agrees with a lot of the negative feedback regarding what said company does.  Hell, none of us on staff really like it, but sometimes you have to deal with some shady fucks to get by, god knows I have personally.

The truth of it is, all of us are here for you, our readers, and it pains us when we have to take measures like this to keep on keeping on, and it certainly stings when we in essence agree with what you are saying but have to do it anyway.

Additionally, we appreciate your feedback and support greatly, and those of you who have donated via the paypal link in the past, thank you again.  I know not everyone can contribute like that, but don't think we think any less of you for it- we are here for all of you.  We are constantly looking for new ways to increase revenue for the site to not only keep it running but make it better for all of us, and will continue to do so.  

Now, if anyone might have any good leads for advertising that we can add to the rotation and eventually replace this ad, please contact me or Ron, our emails are readily available.    

Thanks again,

-MIKE DUNN
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« Reply #65 on: December 18, 2005, 06:08:18 AM »

No need for a lock.

Quote
Don't try to play the guilt trip on the people who voiced their opinions. Like it or not this site is as much theirs as it is yours. Your reply here is very patronizing and frankly, a little bit petty.


Guilt trips are not my forte, so I never do it.  I don't patronize and I'm not petty - I'm just honest about what is on the table here.   You are bringing us to task for something you think is trivial - fine...if 10k is trivial to you, my paypal link is on the front page, because that is what is at stake here.  

Quote
But, that said, you're responding to this in entirely the wrong fashion.
How should I react?  I'm open to suggestions.  The ad has the potential to put a lot of investement into the site, but apparently there is some big respect loss that I can't quite understand at stake as well.
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« Reply #66 on: December 18, 2005, 08:17:57 AM »

I noticed the add a few days ago.  Personally Im not big on that kind of service, but I just shrugged and figured if it helps the guys pay some bills, so be it.

As long as it isnt throwing spyware on my computer, I can handle it.
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dbt1949
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« Reply #67 on: December 18, 2005, 09:09:22 AM »

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« Reply #68 on: December 18, 2005, 01:04:05 PM »

Quote from: "dbt1949"

Ah, dbt...always trying to make people laugh. biggrin

As far as I'm concered about the ad, just keep it up and running. Money is money, and that's something that the site needs to keep running.

And I look at it this way - it's not porn, and it's not a McGriddle ad. And it's at least something remotely related to gaming. It could be far worse.
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« Reply #69 on: December 18, 2005, 02:07:09 PM »

Personally I have two thoughts.  
1.  I don't like IGE and what it does.
2.  I love GT and all it provides me as a gamer.

When console gold went down temporarily, I was lost.  My main gaming site that I go to on many occasions per day was down.  I didn't know what to do, or where I would get my gaming fix.  Now we have GT thanks to the hard work and effort of KD and staff.  I'll be damned if I am going to let a stupid ad that in no way affects my ability to read this site change how I feel.  Ron, if it brings in good money for you, then keep the ad and let the people who don't like it leave.  

As a question, how much per month would you need from paypal donations from the readership to make up for this ad if you go through with removing it?
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« Reply #70 on: December 18, 2005, 02:38:37 PM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"

Guilt trips are not my forte, so I never do it.  I don't patronize and I'm not petty - I'm just honest about what is on the table here.   You are bringing us to task for something you think is trivial - fine...if 10k is trivial to you, my paypal link is on the front page, because that is what is at stake here.  


I, personally, am not taking you to task for the ad at all. I really could care less since I don't have to see it slywink.

Quote
How should I react?  I'm open to suggestions.  The ad has the potential to put a lot of investement into the site, but apparently there is some big respect loss that I can't quite understand at stake as well.


Well, like I said in my first post "Thank you for the feedback, it will be taken into consideration the next time we rotate our ads" would have been fine IMO. It addresses the complaint, ensures the reader that you're responsive, and lets you keep the ad and the money. Then, when the contract is up you switch to something else and spin it by saying you changed because you no longer felt comfortable supporting them. Boom, you have a happy reader base and 10k smile.

However, with this kind of reaction, you've turned this into an even higher stakes game. You've put the respect of your readers on the line by taking them to task and guilt tripping ("I gave up 10k because I love, hope you're happy" is a guilt trip). I just think it was a bad move (not the ad, the reaction) and I don't want to see a very informative site suffer because of it.
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« Reply #71 on: December 18, 2005, 02:39:45 PM »

To move to a dedicated server with adequate bandwidth, we'd need roughly 120 bucks a month.  This ad would provide that and more.  Personally, my goal is to move to a server and get off this shared hosting plan and cover my shipping (another roughly 35-40 bucks a month) without draining my family funds so much.  If I could obtain that roughly 160 a month other ways I'd do it.  If I could do it without ads, even better.  I'm doing everything I can to make this work for everyone...
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« Reply #72 on: December 18, 2005, 02:45:02 PM »

Again, my point about the 10k is not some sort of guilt trip.  It is to take the 'this is trivial' comment off the table.  If you could make 10k a year to run a little tiny banner ad on your site that you can adblock yourself and never see, would you do it? Would the ability to not only support and sustain the site, but also grow it in new directions be worth it?  Given that I've already said that I personally don't condone what they do at IGE, you can again see that it is a function of profitability - nothing more.
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Ron Burke
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Orinoco Womble
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« Reply #73 on: December 18, 2005, 04:58:17 PM »

I'm one of the ones that play MMO's and hate gold farmers (for those of you that care - IGE farms gold in most MMO's, not just WOW).

However, if it get's Ron $10K and saves the site (and his sanity  smile ) then I say go ahead and keep it. I'll just ignore it...
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« Reply #74 on: December 18, 2005, 10:11:32 PM »

I'm jumping in late (Can't seem to stop playing RTW:BI).  My question regarding the banner is, does it have a negative impact on how major players perceive this site?  What I mean is, Gone Gold used to have a spot in one of the magazines (PC Gamer?).  That had to help quite a bit.  If the goal of this site is to grow (and be a major player in the gaming industry), is the short term income worth the negative associations these banners might have on our future?  It's one thing for us members to be uneasy about it, but will these types of banners scare away other possible connections/networking?
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« Reply #75 on: December 18, 2005, 11:09:27 PM »

I would like to note that IGE also advertises (full-page back-cover ads, often) in many of the major gaming magazines.

This in no way is an excuse, but if you bring up Gone Gold being in PC Gamer, you can't ignore the fact that (IIRC) Computer Gaming World has IGE ads as we do.
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Jago
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« Reply #76 on: December 19, 2005, 12:06:45 AM »

Quote from: "Orinoco Womble"
I'm one of the ones that play MMO's and hate gold farmers (for those of you that care - IGE farms gold in most MMO's, not just WOW).

However, if it get's Ron $10K and saves the site (and his sanity  smile ) then I say go ahead and keep it. I'll just ignore it...



/delurk

I have to agree here, I also play MMO's and am none too fond of the farmers.   However, as long as Ron's industry contacts don't view him negatively for running the ad, I say more power to him.  He should go ahead and sign another 2-3 month contract.   That banner is insignificant when compared to the the wrongness that is IGN.. :?  Although, I must say I am intruiged by a pr0n/McGriddle banner....

/lurk
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Destructor
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« Reply #77 on: December 19, 2005, 02:56:51 AM »

Quote from: "Jago"
Although, I must say I am intruiged by a pr0n/McGriddle banner....

That sounds like a challenge for th'FOOL. Care to take him up on it? biggrin  :twisted:
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happydog
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« Reply #78 on: December 19, 2005, 02:58:10 AM »

Well I am going to chime in with my two cents.

Keep it and pocket the cash (well put into the site  biggrin).

That is all.
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DarkEL
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« Reply #79 on: December 19, 2005, 03:12:24 AM »

No time to do anything decent in photoshop but here's a quick and dirty.


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