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Question: What about multiple threads for a new game?
There should be a pre-release thread and an impressions thread and that's it. - 6 (35.3%)
Don't clutter the damn board.  One thread is enough. - 3 (17.6%)
There should be as many threads as there are topics about the game.  Who cares about overlap?! - 6 (35.3%)
Spoilerz!!!1!!  0nE thred for imressionz with and w/o spoilerz. - 2 (11.8%)
Total Voters: 17

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Author Topic: Do multiple threads clutter the board or help organize?  (Read 1747 times)
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Bullwinkle
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« on: March 09, 2010, 02:08:51 PM »

Okay, so I've been letting this hot button really get to me.

I don't understand why the hell people feel the need to start a new thread when a game is released when a perfectly valid one already exists with a discussion underway.  Many of the things brought up in pre-release threads are going to be continued in the discussion when the game is released.  And, when someone wants to comment on the game after it's slipped off the main page, they'll do a search and naturally pick the thread that was started first, which leads to a fractured discussion.

But that's my opinion and clearly there are others.

I'd guess the reasoning for starting a new impressions thread is so that new readers don't have to trudge through pages of older comments to get to the new stuff, but the site doesn't dump you at the beginning of the thread.  Do people really go back through and read every single comment that's been made in these new impressions threads if they're joining the discussions late?  Seems to me you'd just peruse the last handful to get up to speed.  If you're looking for info about something specific you'd search for it.  And then having multiple threads makes that harder.

I keep hearing the word clutter come up as rationale for starting a new thread, but that seems to create clutter rather than alleviate it.

Anyway, I'd love to hear the reasoning, because I just don't get it, and it really has been driving me more crazy than it probably should.
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2010, 02:19:25 PM »

I imagine people start specific threads about a game to discuss specific things, be it spoilers, plot, impressions and what have you, instead of just being one post in a 10 page long thread already.

Honesty, I dont mind multiple threads on the same game, its not like the forums is so hyperactive threads get buried within a day or anything like that either.

May I ask why it is bothering you?
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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2010, 02:38:07 PM »

It's that darn Ridah that pushed him over the edge. icon_lol

I don't mind "multiple" threads as long as it doesn't get out of hand. I don't understand why the hell people feel the need to stay in the same damn thread that's been going on for months sometimes, with pages and pages of demo discussion or the official site or rumors of what might be coming after the game actually comes out.  slywink Starting clean when a game has been released with a "I'm playing it until the sun comes up" actual impressions thread makes sense to me. And for something like Heavy Rain where it would be so easy to spoil the stupid thing, I don't even mind our two threads here - one meant to be spoiler free discussions where it's safe even if you are currently playing the game and other chock full 'o spoilers for those who have finished and want to talk about all the nasty surprises in the game.

My two cents.  Hmmm... I guess my poll choice isn't really reflected, a combination of pre-release and impressions threads with the possibility of a spoiler free variation of the latter depending on the game.
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2010, 05:01:01 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 09, 2010, 02:08:51 PM

Do people really go back through and read every single comment that's been made in these new impressions threads if they're joining the discussions late?  Seems to me you'd just peruse the last handful to get up to speed. 

I absolutely do go want to start with the initial impressions. I'm a goozex guy so I'm typically playing games weeks or even months behind most folks. When I start reading I want early impressions, not the end game stuff that the latest pages will have by the time I'm looking. Having preview and impressions in one thread means it's a pain in the ass to find the early impressions on page 14 of the 26 page thread. If there was a magical way to jump to various pieces of the thread instantly, that would be cool but I don't see that happening.

I think realistically when a game releases the conversation totally changes and deserves a new thread.
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2010, 05:29:03 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on March 09, 2010, 02:19:25 PM

May I ask why it is bothering you?

Well, I've always found having a gazillion threads on one game to be suprememly irritating.  It makes it difficult to find anything you're looking for when they're all on the main page, then, when they start to trickle away, we get the next big release.  I tried to humorously comment on it once and got my wrist slapped (and, worse, sense of humor questioned Tongue), which is fine in the end.  So I figured I'd try to keep that from happening through normal channels, but it keeps happening.

Recently it came to a head with Heavy Rain and with people I generally like. This was a three page thread pre-release.  In my mind no reason to start a new thread.  Additionally, I figured it would hop into multiple threads beyond that (thankfully it didn't).  It got to the point where I avoided posting at all, despite really wanting to talk about the game.

I assumed no one else was as irked as I was about the whole thing, and, frankly, I could tell I was over-reacting.

FFXIII released this week.  In anticipation of Dragon Age thread explosion, I thought I should just find out what others feel, so that I can rationalize it by saying, "Well, no one else cares about it at all, so just let it go" if it goes that way.  This thread is basically to help me get over it.

But it's also a place to see what people actually think about this, and see if we can't come to some kind of consensus.

Bottom line answer, Raz:  I don't know why.  But it really does, and I'm trying to make it so it doesn't.

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« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2010, 05:32:18 PM »

While we're on the topic, it might be nice if impressions threads actually started with impressions.  I'm sick of the childish "haha, impressions are on second page, noob" mentality.  I think it is a useless waste of space and annoying when you're trying to go back and read threads about games that you are late to the party on.  

And I have been around since the GG days, so don't even give me that "it's a tradition, we have to do it" crap.
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2010, 05:35:23 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on March 09, 2010, 05:32:18 PM

While we're on the topic, it might be nice if impressions threads actually started with impressions.  I'm sick of the childish "haha, impressions are on second page, noob" mentality.  I think it is a useless waste of space and annoying when you're trying to go back and read threads about games that you are late to the party on.  

And I have been around since the GG days, so don't even give me that "it's a tradition, we have to do it" crap.

we'll address that on page 2.

as for multiple threads, how do the 'catch all' threads over at GWJ fare?
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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2010, 05:41:27 PM »

Yeah, there's a big difference between breaking off to a new thread at release and creating a new thread for every question that comes up. I think the problem is the appropriateness of an internet message board for these sorts of discussions. It's difficult to manage multiple discussions about a game in a single thread. Especially when there is no organizational structure within threads to keep the conversations out of each other's way. Multiple threads are the only answer there, but that causes other issues.
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« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2010, 05:43:30 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on March 09, 2010, 05:32:18 PM

While we're on the topic, it might be nice if impressions threads actually started with impressions.  I'm sick of the childish "haha, impressions are on second page, noob" mentality.  I think it is a useless waste of space and annoying when you're trying to go back and read threads about games that you are late to the party on.  

I think that has improved recently since people tend to stick with the preview thread until the game actually releases and then the impression thread is created when someone has impressions to share or at least not as early as it has been historically.
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« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2010, 06:27:09 PM »

Quote from: coopasonic on March 09, 2010, 05:41:27 PM

Yeah, there's a big difference between breaking off to a new thread at release and creating a new thread for every question that comes up. I think the problem is the appropriateness of an internet message board for these sorts of discussions. It's difficult to manage multiple discussions about a game in a single thread. Especially when there is no organizational structure within threads to keep the conversations out of each other's way. Multiple threads are the only answer there, but that causes other issues.

I agree there are going to be times where some sidebar warrants its own thread.  And the pre-release impression threads probably wouldn't bother me so much if it wasn't so damn typical to have that balloon into dozens of threads.  At this point, though, it seems like anoter facet of that problem to me.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2010, 06:31:00 PM »

One of the nice things about a separate impressions thread is that it makes searching later much easier.  Unless someone takes the time to update the pre-release thread title (sometimes they do, sometimes they don't) then someone searching for the post- release thread later may not know which one is which. 
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« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2010, 08:29:40 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on March 09, 2010, 06:31:00 PM

One of the nice things about a separate impressions thread is that it makes searching later much easier.  Unless someone takes the time to update the pre-release thread title (sometimes they do, sometimes they don't) then someone searching for the post- release thread later may not know which one is which. 

That seems like keeping it in one thread makes it easier.  Someone searching later on wouldn't have confusion with Heavy Rain for example as to whether they should use the [Official Review] thread or the Impressions thread.  Also, if you add a Spoiler Free thread to the mix it gets more confusing for down the road searchers, IMO.
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« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2010, 08:36:16 PM »

But without some very, very heavy moderation you'll never keep it to one thread.  What's the statue of limitations before someone coming to a game six months or so later can create a new thread or must pick out an existing one?  If a thread is created when a game is first announced must it be maintained as the One True thread for that game forever?   

Neogaf maintains strict rules like that but given the absolute insane amount of posts they get it makes sense to be so structured.  I don't think most other forums need that. 
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« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2010, 12:17:54 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on March 09, 2010, 08:36:16 PM

If a thread is created when a game is first announced must it be maintained as the One True thread for that game forever?   

That makes sense to me.

We have it going on again with FFXIII, BTW.  Two threads both being posted in regularly for no apparent reason.
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« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2010, 03:48:54 AM »

im all about multiple threads for multiple topics about a game, as long as it doesnt get ridiculous!

one uber-thread can get a bit ungainly and ramble back and forth between gameplay, prerelease, hints, spoilers, questions, walkthroughs etc etc etc...

i like having that "first thread" thatll go from pre-re-release to current impressions to rambling to what color shirt ck is wearing while playing (those 15+ page monsters are classic!).  but when im looking for more specific info or a tighter discussion i like having the more concise threads that pop up.

and ill be honest i dont think we really get out of hand here.  even for the biggest games we still seem to stick with 3 or 4 threads MAX.
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« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2010, 05:28:25 AM »

Quote from: Doopri on March 10, 2010, 03:48:54 AM

i like having that "first thread" thatll go from pre-re-release to current impressions to rambling to what color shirt ck is wearing while playing (those 15+ page monsters are classic!).

bah, everyone knows I play in the nude.
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« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2010, 04:02:03 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 10, 2010, 12:17:54 AM

We have it going on again with FFXIII, BTW.  Two threads both being posted in regularly for no apparent reason.

The reason is probably the "cute" name of the impressions thread. I think my preference would be for the pre-release thread to be locked when the game releases and the impressions thread is started, but I may be alone in that opinion.
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« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2010, 04:10:12 PM »

I dont understand why you guys feel the need for such heavy moderation...I understand that a person can find them "irritating" - thats a personal perogative of everyone, but if you think its hard to find stuff, use search, that should allieviate any troubles.

Personally I like that I dont have to think about whether to search for an old thread, or whether I'm allowed to make a new one, if I have a specific query about a game. Pure laziness on my side, I know, but I'm allowed (so far) to be so.

And as Kevín said, it requires somewhat more heavy moderation that I think there is right now. I.e. time consuming.
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« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2010, 04:12:22 PM »

Quote from: coopasonic on March 10, 2010, 04:02:03 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 10, 2010, 12:17:54 AM

We have it going on again with FFXIII, BTW.  Two threads both being posted in regularly for no apparent reason.

The reason is probably the "cute" name of the impressions thread. I think my preference would be for the pre-release thread to be locked when the game releases and the impressions thread is started, but I may be alone in that opinion.

the problem with that is what if someone is still having an ongoing conversation in the pre-release thread?  I really don't see a reason to lock any thread unless it's turned into a flame fest.
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« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2010, 04:17:36 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on March 10, 2010, 04:12:22 PM

Quote from: coopasonic on March 10, 2010, 04:02:03 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 10, 2010, 12:17:54 AM

We have it going on again with FFXIII, BTW.  Two threads both being posted in regularly for no apparent reason.

The reason is probably the "cute" name of the impressions thread. I think my preference would be for the pre-release thread to be locked when the game releases and the impressions thread is started, but I may be alone in that opinion.

the problem with that is what if someone is still having an ongoing conversation in the pre-release thread?  I really don't see a reason to lock any thread unless it's turned into a flame fest.

Because we end up where we are now with two threads having the exact same conversations. If the old thread would drop off the front page it wouldn't be a problem, but it just won't die!
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« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2010, 04:24:58 PM »

Quote from: coopasonic on March 10, 2010, 04:17:36 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on March 10, 2010, 04:12:22 PM

Quote from: coopasonic on March 10, 2010, 04:02:03 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 10, 2010, 12:17:54 AM

We have it going on again with FFXIII, BTW.  Two threads both being posted in regularly for no apparent reason.

The reason is probably the "cute" name of the impressions thread. I think my preference would be for the pre-release thread to be locked when the game releases and the impressions thread is started, but I may be alone in that opinion.

the problem with that is what if someone is still having an ongoing conversation in the pre-release thread?  I really don't see a reason to lock any thread unless it's turned into a flame fest.

Because we end up where we are now with two threads having the exact same conversations. If the old thread would drop off the front page it wouldn't be a problem, but it just won't die!

Hey!  You know how you could fix that?  One thread.
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« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2010, 06:31:29 PM »

Everyone has things that get under their skin that they can't explain.  Ironically, complaining about multiple threads is one of mine.  I don't know why it bugs me like it does. 

Identical threads are silly, sure, but when a new A+ game comes out (I'm a PC gamer) it is part of the fun to share the excitement on the forum.  When that game is a CPRG, to me, that almost begs multiple threads because there are technical aspects and plot aspects of the game that will be discussed. Tech support, puzzle hints, character development, etc.  It is annoying and often counterproductive to have to go through a long thread to find a very specific comment.  Searching doesn't always help because people can use different terms for the same issues and the search will fail.  Plus, you run the risk of getting stuff spoiled (some folks seem to hate spoiler tags) while browsing.  Admittedly, thread titles can spoil things as well if they are specific enough to be useful.

When Dragon Age came out I was (unfairly) annoyed by the complaints about multiple threads.  The PC forums don't get nearly the love that the console forums do and when some of us were finally having fun we get told to keep it down.  Our PC forum is not exactly overactive and it could be renamed the Ceekay forum.  (No offense to Ceekay meant.)  What harm did it do to actually enjoy and use the forums?  If there were dozens of threads, I can see the problem.  Of course, we can argue how many are too many threads, but the tone of the forum became negative to me.  (Like I said, I don't know why it bugs me like it does.)  If a half dozen threads on a game are too much for GT's pc forums, then for what exactly are the forums meant?   If we aren't supposed to come here and enjoy our game discussions (and get a little wild sometimes, perhaps?) then just close it down.

It is probably unfair, but I didn't renew my yearly (very minor) financial support in December because of the vibe I got from this issue.  Then when I got over it the front page fiasco occured and kept my wallet shut again.  Maybe I'm just having a bad decade about this stuff.
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« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2010, 06:38:31 PM »

Quote from: Arnir on March 10, 2010, 06:31:29 PM

It is probably unfair, but I didn't renew my yearly (very minor) financial support in December because of the vibe I got from this issue.  Then when I got over it the front page fiasco occured and kept my wallet shut again.  Maybe I'm just having a bad decade about this stuff.

FWIW, despite various forum members having strong opinions on the subject, to my knowledge no moderator or administrator has set any sort of official or non-official standards on the issue.  I know there have been a few times when threads have been merged (even then it tends to be rare and often gets commented on) but I don't think anyone should ever feel that this is frowned upon in any  official capacity. 

It's not anything that someone should consider withholding support from Ron and the site for. 
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« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2010, 07:17:17 PM »

Just to point out, there were at least a dozen Dragon Age threads, and it may have been approaching dozens (and no I'm not talking about the joke threads).  And if you want to find something relevant, it makes searching nearly impossible.

Also to point out, though, as annoying as I find this issue, I'm aware that not everyone feels like me, and this poll/thread is not a way for me to incite the strict rules that KG is talking about (unless there was a universal agreement about it, but I figured that wouldn't be the case), but for people to talk about it and come to some sort of non-official opinion and understanding.

Also, on a personal level, it can help me to understand the group mind on this a little better.
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« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2010, 07:20:27 PM »

Bullwinkle,
I think your starting this thread was a great idea.  I think we all have a lot to learn about how other people see this stuff.  Never hurts anyone to get more well reasoned opinions.
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« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2010, 07:45:04 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on March 10, 2010, 06:38:31 PM

Quote from: Arnir on March 10, 2010, 06:31:29 PM

It is probably unfair, but I didn't renew my yearly (very minor) financial support in December because of the vibe I got from this issue.  Then when I got over it the front page fiasco occured and kept my wallet shut again.  Maybe I'm just having a bad decade about this stuff.

FWIW, despite various forum members having strong opinions on the subject, to my knowledge no moderator or administrator has set any sort of official or non-official standards on the issue.  I know there have been a few times when threads have been merged (even then it tends to be rare and often gets commented on) but I don't think anyone should ever feel that this is frowned upon in any  official capacity.  

It's not anything that someone should consider withholding support from Ron and the site for.  

I think perhaps official or non-official standards might be helpful for people who are truly concerned about this.  Never hurts to know in advance what is acceptable and what isn't.  Some folks don't enjoy wondering if people are going to complain if they start a new thread - it can take the fun out of the forums.  

If I go to a pub and don't like the vibe I get there then I won't give them more money than I have to.  I understand that it might not be completely fair to Ron but if complaining about what I enjoy is what GT becomes, I'm not going to help pay for it.  But as I said, I was getting over that thought until the front page garbage - but I don't want to derail the thread.
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« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2010, 11:31:29 PM »

I prefer shorter threads each with their own topic.  I also have a pet peeve about people who don't read a whole thread before commenting.  Keeping threads to the point and reading the whole thread will greatly reduce the number of times things need to be repeated.
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« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2010, 12:42:53 AM »

lol oooooooh you must HATE me sometimes then hark smile

im pretty sure my worst moment was about a month ago with bayonetta, when, because i hadnt been following the thread and didnt want to go through 17 pages i asked a question that was answered literally 8 or 10 posts up (on the same page smile )

about 10 minutes later when i started reading end to beginning, i laughed my ass off but not before proner i think?  had already answered with a smirk
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« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2010, 12:46:40 AM »

I think it's appropriate for a game to have a pre and post release thread as it is annoying to wade through announcement, alpha and beta news, demo impressions and 'who's getting this and why?' questions before getting the actual players' impressions. I also have been annoyed by those who feel it necessary to soft police a new imp thread just because someone created a news thread three years before the game came out with a title that doesn't get updated as the OP isn't playing the game after release.

There's no reason to continue an imp thread on top of double digit preview thread;  the BC2 thread is a prime example of this and shows that it works.

If there isn't an imp thread on release for a game I'm interested in, I will make one,  simple as that.    
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« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2010, 01:01:35 AM »

next thing you know I bet someone will complain about people not reading the whole thread before commenting, like some people can memorize multiple pages easily.
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