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Author Topic: Xbox Live Gold - For Windows!  (Read 2695 times)
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Hetz
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« on: March 06, 2007, 12:57:00 AM »

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3157724

In order to play with 360 owners, you have to pay, just like they do! What a great deal! NOT!  thumbsdown

Uhh...yeah. Good luck with that, MS. Count me out. I can't believe that you make me pay for the 'privilage' of playing online anyway with the 360. I'll be damned if I am going to pay to play on my PC as well.
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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2007, 01:06:34 AM »

Yeah, this won't last the year.
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2007, 01:18:54 AM »

Awful decision, awful strategy, and as Hiro said, I doubt very very much will last the year. The days of paying for online gaming portals on the PC died many years ago and I think this is a massive uphill battle that is going to alienate gamers that don't wany to pay two services much less one to play with their friends. Bad call.
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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2007, 01:21:31 AM »

Now that I read it, it sounds like it's more for "pay for the opportunity to play against 360ers" or something like that.  Either way, this is a frighteningly stupid decision, if it is as it sounds.
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kronovan
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2007, 01:21:54 AM »

 icon_lol Well I guess this answers my questions as to whether Live! for the original XBox would be made free anytime soon.  Roll Eyes
Thanks for finding this and posting it Hetz.
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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2007, 01:24:51 AM »

keep your PC out of my 360 and vice versa!  Mouse/keyboard should be kept seperate from gamepad, unless they'll force you to use a gamepad on the PC then I might as well just get the game on the 360.
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Hetz
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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2007, 01:26:27 AM »

Quote from: SuperHiro on March 06, 2007, 01:21:31 AM

Now that I read it, it sounds like it's more for "pay for the opportunity to play against 360ers" or something like that.  Either way, this is a frighteningly stupid decision, if it is as it sounds.

Yeah, the "Gold" service will be the ability to play against 360 owners, which I thought was the whole freaking point of Live for Windows! The whole paying for multiplayer thing (even with a 360) is so stupid anyway. I think they realise that now, which is why they are making Silver (free) members wait a week before they can download new demos. I don't know how they are going to be able to justify this whole "Gold" thing (for either the PC or the 360) by the end of the year.
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SuperHiro
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2007, 01:29:32 AM »

Quote from: Hetz on March 06, 2007, 01:26:27 AM

Quote from: SuperHiro on March 06, 2007, 01:21:31 AM

Now that I read it, it sounds like it's more for "pay for the opportunity to play against 360ers" or something like that.  Either way, this is a frighteningly stupid decision, if it is as it sounds.

Yeah, the "Gold" service will be the ability to play against 360 owners, which I thought was the whole freaking point of Live for Windows! The whole paying for multiplayer thing (even with a 360) is so stupid anyway. I think they realise that now, which is why they are making Silver (free) members wait a week before they can download new demos. I don't know how they are going to be able to justify this whole "Gold" thing (for either the PC or the 360) by the end of the year.

They can afford to do it because the PS3 isn't really a credible competitor yet.  Nor the Wii for that matter. Once the Ps3 picks up they'll have to take a look at either making it cheaper or making it free.
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Thin_J
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2007, 07:56:20 PM »

Ok, what I can't find anything about is...

If you already have a Gold account on the 360 does it carry over to the PC or would I have to pay for both?
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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2007, 08:03:00 PM »

Quote from: Thin_J on March 06, 2007, 07:56:20 PM

Ok, what I can't find anything about is...

If you already have a Gold account on the 360 does it carry over to the PC or would I have to pay for both?

Our assumption is that you must pay for both, but that is an assumption.
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Thin_J
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« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2007, 08:14:29 PM »

In that case I'll keep my anger and indignation in reserve for the moment.
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« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2007, 08:28:36 PM »

It all depends on what the gold membership gets you.  I personally don't mind paying for live because of the quality of the service.  Nobody thought Live on the Xbox and 360 would survive as a pay based service, yet they have 6 million subscribers.
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« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2007, 08:33:08 PM »

Bear in mind too,  they recently released a device that would let you use your wireless 360 devices (controller, headset, etc) on your PC for just 20 bucks.  So, you can't completely assume that you'll be playing against kbd and mouse players.  I'm okay with this as long as they allow 360 Live members to use the same account on the PC (I'm hoping so...it would suck to have to maintain 2 accounts, especially for achievements).  If this is the case too...I hope some clan/guild support is added in.  If it turns into an Xfire like service, I'd be happy.
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Hetz
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« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2007, 01:50:39 AM »

There are also going to be acheivements as well....but you've got to pay to earn the multiplayer achievements. Those are "Gold" only...

http://blogs.ign.com/MGS_HiredGun/2007/03/06/48572/

Quote
It’s an exciting new era for “Halo 2” players, as a new frontier opens on Windows Vista. We are adding a lot to the game to make it a much richer experience, especially if you have a Games for Windows – LIVE service account. Silver accounts on LIVE can earn achievements on the single-player campaign, and play in multiplayer games. Gold accounts on LIVE have the added benefit of being able to earn achievements in both single-player campaign and multiplayer matches.
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« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2007, 02:33:01 AM »

Quote from: Arkon on March 06, 2007, 08:28:36 PM

It all depends on what the gold membership gets you.  I personally don't mind paying for live because of the quality of the service.  Nobody thought Live on the Xbox and 360 would survive as a pay based service, yet they have 6 million subscribers.

Big distinction- they have 6 million subscribers but, unless I missed something, they haven't released the breakdown of Silver/Gold so everybody with a Silver account is not paying a fee. 
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Hetz
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« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2007, 02:35:49 AM »

Official Pricing and Details:

http://www.gameinformer.com/NR/exeres/00401D0E-110B-4260-B579-46A1C89295FE.htm

Quote
While Microsoft was quite quiet about Live for Windows Vista, today during a press event prior to the Game Developers Conference the company revealed to Game Informer Online the exact pricing structure for the service. Live for Windows Vista will actually be the same exact price for Vista as it is for the Xbox 360. Just like with the Xbox 360 there will be a free Silver package as well as a Gold package which retails for $49.99 for a year subscription, $7.99 for one month, and $19.99 for three months

Good news for gamers who already have an Xbox Live Gold Membership – you’ve already subscribed. Your Live membership works on the Xbox, Xbox 360, and Live for Windows. Your gamer tag and achievements will be used across both Xbox and Vista PCs. Upcoming Vista games like Halo 2 and some exclusive Vista casual games will include achievements and will be able to add to your gamer score.

We'll have more on this as it becomes available.

Well, the good news is, they are not going to rape you twice.  icon_smile
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« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2007, 03:10:14 AM »

Quote from: Hetz on March 07, 2007, 02:35:49 AM

Official Pricing and Details:

http://www.gameinformer.com/NR/exeres/00401D0E-110B-4260-B579-46A1C89295FE.htm

Quote
While Microsoft was quite quiet about Live for Windows Vista, today during a press event prior to the Game Developers Conference the company revealed to Game Informer Online the exact pricing structure for the service. Live for Windows Vista will actually be the same exact price for Vista as it is for the Xbox 360. Just like with the Xbox 360 there will be a free Silver package as well as a Gold package which retails for $49.99 for a year subscription, $7.99 for one month, and $19.99 for three months

Good news for gamers who already have an Xbox Live Gold Membership – you’ve already subscribed. Your Live membership works on the Xbox, Xbox 360, and Live for Windows. Your gamer tag and achievements will be used across both Xbox and Vista PCs. Upcoming Vista games like Halo 2 and some exclusive Vista casual games will include achievements and will be able to add to your gamer score.

We'll have more on this as it becomes available.

Well, the good news is, they are not going to rape you twice.  icon_smile


Okay! Here we go, great, wonderful, etc. It still sucks for PC gamers that want to be part of Live since they are really not used to the subscription model anymore, but for all of us paying for Live already this is very, very welcome news and helps us out quite a bit. As I said, I worry how popular it will be with primarily PC users, but I know for me at least I get a 2for1-which I would rather not pay at all but can certainly deal with.
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kronovan
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« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2007, 06:00:06 AM »

Quote from: Hetz on March 07, 2007, 02:35:49 AM

Official Pricing and Details:

http://www.gameinformer.com/NR/exeres/00401D0E-110B-4260-B579-46A1C89295FE.htm

Quote
While Microsoft was quite quiet about Live for Windows Vista, today during a press event prior to the Game Developers Conference the company revealed to Game Informer Online the exact pricing structure for the service. Live for Windows Vista will actually be the same exact price for Vista as it is for the Xbox 360. Just like with the Xbox 360 there will be a free Silver package as well as a Gold package which retails for $49.99 for a year subscription, $7.99 for one month, and $19.99 for three months

Good news for gamers who already have an Xbox Live Gold Membership – you’ve already subscribed. Your Live membership works on the Xbox, Xbox 360, and Live for Windows. Your gamer tag and achievements will be used across both Xbox and Vista PCs. Upcoming Vista games like Halo 2 and some exclusive Vista casual games will include achievements and will be able to add to your gamer score.

We'll have more on this as it becomes available.

Well, the good news is, they are not going to rape you twice.  icon_smile

Yeah cool...but I only own an original XBox for which there isn't the Silver and Gold level memberships. So will this let me use my XBox Live! account -which I pay 49.99 per year- to access Vista Live! too?
The GameInformer article sort of hints at this, but it isn't a 100% clear.
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« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2007, 07:07:26 AM »

Your old school Xbox live account is the equivalent of a gold membership. You're paying, you get it.

No way do they shaft Xbox 1 owners. I bet you go through the same account upgrade process that 360 users do.
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kronovan
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« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2007, 03:44:09 PM »

Quote from: Thin_J on March 07, 2007, 07:07:26 AM

No way do they shaft Xbox 1 owners. I bet you go through the same account upgrade process that 360 users do.

Well...it is MicroSoft after all.
If it's true this will give me a reason to upgrade to Vista sooner than I had planned.
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« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2007, 04:12:58 PM »

Quote from: kronovan on March 07, 2007, 03:44:09 PM

Quote from: Thin_J on March 07, 2007, 07:07:26 AM

No way do they shaft Xbox 1 owners. I bet you go through the same account upgrade process that 360 users do.

Well...it is MicroSoft after all.
If it's true this will give me a reason to upgrade to Vista sooner than I had planned.

I've been thinking for a while that Windows Live! will be my main reason to upgrade.  I'm trying to find someone at Microsoft to schmooze for a free copy...  I plan on buying one, but if I can get a free one, I can upgrade my media center!
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« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2007, 06:51:59 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 07, 2007, 04:12:58 PM

I'm trying to find someone at Microsoft to schmooze for a free copy...  I plan on buying one, but if I can get a free one, I can upgrade my media center!

I hear you, I'm in the same boat. Unfortunately all my past Microsoft contacts are now Microsoft refugees. Of course I could always dip into the MSDN or MCSP subscription kits at work, but I'm 99.9% sure that such an installation wouldn't allow the use of Live! for Vista.

If I upgrade to Vista Home Premier do I need to have the Media Center version of XP Home?
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« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2007, 06:58:50 PM »

I don't believe so.  I think any flavor of XP should be able to upgrade to Vista Home Premium.  Going from XP Home to Vista Ultimate may not work... but it may, so don't quote me.  I'll check the Vista site.

But really, when/if I buy a copy, I'm going to go for the "system builder" version.  It's essentially what used to be called the OEM version, and only gives you the media and product key (no box or manuals).  From what I've seen, this version costs either the same or less than the retail upgrade... so the benefit is it's the full install version.

I plan on getting a new, built for gaming PC this year.  Depending on how good the offerings from Dell are, I'll decide whether to get one from them or build my own.  I used to always build my own, but it's getting to be one of those things I don't care to screw around with after working on PCs or networking issues all day.  The Dell PC with Media Center has, for the most part, worked out pretty well.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2007, 07:02:31 PM by unbreakable » Logged
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« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2007, 07:02:13 PM »

You can upgrade XP Home to Home Premium or Ultimate.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradepaths.mspx is the official upgrade matrix.

The only real complications are if you try to "downgrade" functionality - for example, you can't install Home Basic over Media Center 2005 because Home Basic doesn't have the media center features.  You could still do a side-by-side install and use Easy Transfer to suck all your data over, of course.
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« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2007, 07:08:38 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 07, 2007, 06:58:50 PM

But really, when/if I buy a copy, I'm going to go for the "system builder" version.  It's essentially what used to be called the OEM version, and only gives you the media and product key (no box or manuals).  From what I've seen, this version costs either the same or less than the retail upgrade... so the benefit is it's the full install version.

Isn't this version only available when a new system is sold?

I agree this version would be the best deal, but I doubt it will fly for me. I upgraded my PC less than a year ago and I don't want to upgrade or buy a new system just for Vista. Of course this might all just be wishful thinking.  icon_neutral
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« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2007, 07:10:44 PM »

Numerous third parties sell the system builder SKU (http://promotions.newegg.com/msvista/Vista_Products.html for example).  The key differentiator is your support options.
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« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2007, 07:16:11 PM »

Hmmm... it seems like Vista has a pretty liberal upgrade policy: you can go from any Win2000 or XP to any version of Vista.  The only issue is whether you can upgrade your current install (carrying over your settings and install applications... YMMV on the latter), or if you have to do a clean install.

But as Brendan noted, downgrading can cause a loss of some features.

One interesting thing is the family discount.  If you get one Vista Ultimate (retail box), you can get up to two copies of Vista Home Premium for $50 each.  Not a bad deal, you can save a bit more than a hundy that way.
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« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2007, 07:20:59 PM »

The way the family plan works is that they give you PIDs for two additional Home Premium installs.  Because all of the images for the consumer SKUs are on the single DVD, you're then able to immediately install them from the retail copy of Ultimate that you purchased.
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« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2007, 09:45:02 PM »

there's a workaround for the upgrade version, as natively it will not let you install "clean", ie it will only install over the top of xp/2k.  basically, you install vista twice.  once without the key, giving you a 30 day trial version.  then install from the disc and enter the serial when it asks you.  bada bing, bada boom, no need for the full retail flavor of any version. 

not confirmed by me personally, but here's the article.  i'll only upgrade once i can get a cheaper copy through an ms employed work friend and once i get a 2nd hd to install it on.  not messing with my current xp install. 
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« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2007, 09:55:12 PM »

Cross-posted and slightly modified from OO:

<The preceding point I'll summarize here was for the availability of several free programs (X-Fire, Teamspeak, etc.)>

Oh I understand all of that and they are some very nice programs. But people have to hunt them down and individually set them up. There's no way many casual gamers are going to be able to figure out the intricacies of Teamspeak (to get on Fret's I had to manually type in his IP address which was also dynamic so I had to ping him every time). I agree that all of the programs are great and it's nice that they're free. But they are in dire need of an integrated bundle to make everything a one step setup process. Then games need to start natively supporting them and easily controllable from within them. I just don't see this happening as there is no standard.

Enter Microsoft with a standard. Sure, MS doesn't run game servers, but they run the central servers that support the network. And to call it 'just a matchmaking service' is quite an oversimplification, no? The ease-of-use and how tightly it's wound in to the whole experience is what makes it so great. Consider:

Integrated VOIP
Invite people to games you are playing
Friends lists
All Games for Windows certified games support LIVE
Invite people who are playing in games different than the one you are in
Send text and voice messages
Achievements

You can certainly achieve some of these points through existing software. But once again it's separate and external to the games. Considering people are dropping $400-600 on consoles/video cards/processors and up to $60 for games (or more for collector's editions), and I of course would never argue with free, $50 is a pittance for the quality and usability of Live. I pay $50 for my cable, $70 for my cell, $15 for XM, etc. Live is my gaming service and as excellent as it is I have no problem paying for it. Especially at $4 a month. That it's coming to PC and I can share my account with my 360 is all the better (I can do that, right? If I have to pay double then I will take issue).

Last night I was playing Tomb Raider. My friend sends me a chat request. I accept and we shoot the crap while I'm still playing TR. We decide to do some RB6 co-op. I pop in the game, shoot him an invite and we're up and running in a couple minutes. After about 30 minutes he gets a Gears invite and shoots a message to his friend to send me one. A couple minutes later we're both in a chainsaw frenzy. After an hour or so I bow out and go back to TR. From there I pop off a couple friend invites to a couple nice, new people I've met and want to game with again. I rank them as preferred right then and there. Total integration, FTW.

The question is what will happen to X-fire, Teamspeak, etc. once Live starts to become more and more ubiquitous? What sticky legal ground, if any, is MS entering by intergrating and exclusive system like this in Windows?

It'll be interesting to see what impact the newly announced Home features releasing this Fall will have on Live if any.  Personally, while I find the Sims-esque thing interesting, I don't think it's really ideal for the gaming experience.  When I want to play a game I just want a nice, quick list that I can pull up, see who's on and either join them or send out some invites.  I assume Home will have it's own versions of these and hopefully they are as honed as Live's current features.  If they push MS to make Live free then that'll be butter on my toast.
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« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2007, 10:10:46 PM »

Quote from: Jancelot on March 07, 2007, 09:55:12 PM

The question is what will happen to X-fire, Teamspeak, etc. once Live starts to become more and more ubiquitous? What sticky legal ground, if any, is MS entering by intergrating and exclusive system like this in Windows?

Whether it's sticky legal ground or not it's been in Microsofts' plans for Windows for a very long time. What you describe is what Bill Gate's and crew have been saying in one form or another since the mid 90's.
As many have said before, it's all about controlling the media that gets delivered in your livingroom. If Live! for Windows is a way for better achieving that, legal or not, Microsoft is going to find a way to do it and ensure that Sony and others don't. And they won't be to concerned about any casualties along the way.

BTW Excellent reply Jancelot
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« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2007, 03:16:48 AM »

I've gone too many years of playing for free on my PC (after spending $40+ on the game of course) I'm not about to start paying a monthly fee to play my games online. (The only exception to that would be MMORPG's)

Speaking of Shadowrun, I wonder if we choose NOT to play against 360 users, if we'll be able to play for free online against other PC users.

Regardless of the 'experience' Live gives you (and I've had it on both Xbox and 360) when the competition is doing th same thing for free, I don't think this will go over too well with most PC gamers. Guess we'll just have to wait and see, and when enough of us refuse to pay Microsoft's monthly fee, perhaps they'll keep things the way they were meant to be.
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« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2007, 03:26:30 AM »

Quote from: kronovan on March 07, 2007, 07:08:38 PM

Isn't this version only available when a new system is sold?

No, that's why they've change the name from OEM.  Now stores are openly advertising this version.

It seems to me MS has had a very good strategy change with Vista: it appears they would prefer some of everything than all of very little.  So rather than making it difficult to get a lower priced copy of Vista, they are making it simple, and providing just the basics for people who don't need any more than the basics.  

At the same time, they also make upgrading easy: I've seen a few new Vista PCs, and they ship with a Vista disc you can use to upgrade if you wish to.  You simply drop disk, go to MS's website, buy an upgrade license, and you start installing.


As for knocking out people competing with Live... I was discussing this with a friend today, and here is how I look at it: MS gave everyone decades to work out this stuff.  And nobody has.  Seriously, Gamespy is a piece of crap, and every other game matchmaking service has been as well.  Heck, voicechat has been out for years, and it's still hardly supported in games (or even IM programs!!).  All the pieces are there, but nobody else bothered to put them together... or even come up with something which works well!

If nobody else can make a good product, screw em.  They had their chance.
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« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2007, 03:36:55 AM »

Quote from: Caine on March 07, 2007, 09:45:02 PM

there's a workaround for the upgrade version, as natively it will not let you install "clean", ie it will only install over the top of xp/2k.  basically, you install vista twice.  once without the key, giving you a 30 day trial version.  then install from the disc and enter the serial when it asks you.  bada bing, bada boom, no need for the full retail flavor of any version. 

not confirmed by me personally, but here's the article.  i'll only upgrade once i can get a cheaper copy through an ms employed work friend and once i get a 2nd hd to install it on.  not messing with my current xp install. 

Since the system builder is either the same price, or cheaper, than the upgrade... it doesn't seem worth the trouble.
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« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2007, 05:03:17 AM »

May 8th

And the articles confirms that one account will work on both the 360 and PC.  Woot!  I'm already a willing customer on 360 so all I have to do is upgrade to Vista Ultimate for $200+.   retard icon_biggrin
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« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2007, 11:23:17 AM »

Quote from: Jancelot on March 15, 2007, 05:03:17 AM

May 8th

And the articles confirms that one account will work on both the 360 and PC.  Woot!  I'm already a willing customer on 360 so all I have to do is upgrade to Vista Ultimate for $200+.   retard icon_biggrin

Why Vista Ultimate? It won't work with other versions? If so I am preemptively fighting the urge to get extremely annoyed. Oh yeah, woot, I am an exisiting customer too. Ia m actually really looking forward to this. If they can somehow make it mandatory that any game released under the "Games For Windows" banner or at least anything first or third party Microsoft has achievements that count across PC/360 (obviously I am hoping they have regulations on the achievements so small fry developers don't go nuts with insanely easy points if this is open beyond Microsoft published titles) then I am suddenly going to find myself playing more multiplatform titles on PC smile
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Brendan
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« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2007, 03:26:32 PM »

It's not restricted to Vista Ultimate.
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Calvin
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« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2007, 04:41:42 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on March 15, 2007, 03:26:32 PM

It's not restricted to Vista Ultimate.

Well good.  thumbsup
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unbreakable
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« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2007, 05:25:33 PM »

Here is a quick comparison of Vista features.  As you can see, most needs are met by either Home Premium or the Business versions. 

One of the big reasons to go with Ultimate is if you need the Business version so you can join a domain, but would also like Media Center.  As for home use... there isn't too much Home Premium doesn't do which most home users will ever notice.

Home Basic seems to be Vista analogy of the "Core" XBox 360: it leaves out most reasons for even getting it, and isn't even all that much cheaper to make it worth the sacrifice.  The price difference between Home and Home Premium is about $20.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 05:27:51 PM by unbreakable » Logged
Calvin
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« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2007, 05:31:22 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 15, 2007, 05:25:33 PM

Here is a quick comparison of Vista features.  As you can see, most needs are met by either Home Premium or the Business versions. 

One of the big reasons to go with Ultimate is if you need the Business version so you can join a domain, but would also like Media Center.  As for home use... there isn't too much Home Premium doesn't do which most home users will ever notice.

Home Basic seems to be Vista analogy of the "Core" XBox 360: it leaves out most reasons for even getting it, and isn't even all that much cheaper to make it worth the sacrifice.  The price difference between Home and Home Premium is about $20.
I use Home Premium. It has everything I need.
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