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Author Topic: XBOX Kinect  (Read 32219 times)
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jblank
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« Reply #160 on: June 16, 2010, 08:38:17 PM »

Quote from: MaxSteele on June 16, 2010, 08:35:36 PM

Quote from: jblank on June 16, 2010, 08:31:09 PM

Quote from: MaxSteele on June 16, 2010, 08:24:46 PM

Quote from: jblank
This just burns me up and like that writer with cracked.com (I think it was them) said, this really is the beginning of the end for the gaming industry and probably the point where I will look back one day and say "this started me losing interest in video games".

There's that DOOM!!!11!! outlook again.  Why does the existence of motion control have to be the 'beginning of the end' for the gaming industry?  Why does this mean companies will stop making games that use a 'normal' control scheme?  It doesn't.

If you don't like Kinect / Move / Wiimote, don't play them.

Where I think the real threat is, is where there is a hobby that 'core people' are comfortable with, then some event happens which brings casuals into it.  Music is a great example.  There are fans of a band which isn't really well known, or the music style doesn't appeal to many.  Once that band becomes known, more people start listening to them and the 'original' fans get pissed off at all the 'band-wagoners' and start calling the band itself a sell-out.  

Most people in groups like this hate it when their exclusive band / music / style / hobby becomes more inclusive to the general populace, which they then adopt a 'salted earth' policy and completely abandon it.  But what happens?  that band / music / style / hobby still goes on without them, and everyone else continues to enjoy.

The gaming industry will continue without you.  Find another hobby that not many others care about to attach yourself to.

Because when a company throws money at something huge like this (in their mind) they feel pressured to support it. That means more resources towards it and away from other things and quality will inevitably suffer, especially when vendors feel pressure to include motion stuff in games where it shouldn't be present.

Why should I find another hobby? I'm the type of gamer they should WANT to keep. I buy all new games (I have probably bought 75 games in the last year), I have all 3 system, etc, etc, etc. Why should I have to bounce out of the hobby? Let the casual gamer go, I am harder to attract and keep than they are.

You're making assumptions that are unfounded.  You think the Nintendo Power Glove was cheap?  How about Virtual Boy?  Yet Nintendo and gaming still exist after those failures.  There are other examples.

I say you should find another hobby because this one sounds like it's taking a turn you don't like, and instead of looking for ways to enjoy it, you're sounding the death knell to gaming and alluding to turning your back on it completely.

Dude,I didn't write the fucking article that said that it was the death of gaming. Someone else did, but I agree with a lof of what he said. Go ahead and motion the fuck out of yourself, shove the Wiimote up your ass for all I care, but the hardcore gaming crowd is what has made gaming what it is today, so excuse me for giving a fuck about a hobby that I have enjoyed for nearly all of my 35 years. Jerk!
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« Reply #161 on: June 16, 2010, 08:40:52 PM »

Quote from: jblank on June 16, 2010, 08:38:17 PM

Quote from: MaxSteele on June 16, 2010, 08:35:36 PM

Quote from: jblank on June 16, 2010, 08:31:09 PM

Quote from: MaxSteele on June 16, 2010, 08:24:46 PM

Quote from: jblank
This just burns me up and like that writer with cracked.com (I think it was them) said, this really is the beginning of the end for the gaming industry and probably the point where I will look back one day and say "this started me losing interest in video games".

There's that DOOM!!!11!! outlook again.  Why does the existence of motion control have to be the 'beginning of the end' for the gaming industry?  Why does this mean companies will stop making games that use a 'normal' control scheme?  It doesn't.

If you don't like Kinect / Move / Wiimote, don't play them.

Where I think the real threat is, is where there is a hobby that 'core people' are comfortable with, then some event happens which brings casuals into it.  Music is a great example.  There are fans of a band which isn't really well known, or the music style doesn't appeal to many.  Once that band becomes known, more people start listening to them and the 'original' fans get pissed off at all the 'band-wagoners' and start calling the band itself a sell-out.  

Most people in groups like this hate it when their exclusive band / music / style / hobby becomes more inclusive to the general populace, which they then adopt a 'salted earth' policy and completely abandon it.  But what happens?  that band / music / style / hobby still goes on without them, and everyone else continues to enjoy.

The gaming industry will continue without you.  Find another hobby that not many others care about to attach yourself to.

Because when a company throws money at something huge like this (in their mind) they feel pressured to support it. That means more resources towards it and away from other things and quality will inevitably suffer, especially when vendors feel pressure to include motion stuff in games where it shouldn't be present.

Why should I find another hobby? I'm the type of gamer they should WANT to keep. I buy all new games (I have probably bought 75 games in the last year), I have all 3 system, etc, etc, etc. Why should I have to bounce out of the hobby? Let the casual gamer go, I am harder to attract and keep than they are.

You're making assumptions that are unfounded.  You think the Nintendo Power Glove was cheap?  How about Virtual Boy?  Yet Nintendo and gaming still exist after those failures.  There are other examples.

I say you should find another hobby because this one sounds like it's taking a turn you don't like, and instead of looking for ways to enjoy it, you're sounding the death knell to gaming and alluding to turning your back on it completely.

Dude,I didn't write the fucking article that said that it was the death of gaming. Someone else did. Go ahead and motion the fuck out of yourself, shove the Wiimote up your ass for all I care, but the hardcore gaming crowd is what has made gaming what it is today, so excuse me for giving a fuck about a hobby that I have enjoyed for nearly all of my 35 years. Jerk!

While you didn't write it, you're agreeing with it and using it as a basis for your arguement.

Thank you for validating my examples.

Quote
but the hardcore gaming crowd is what has made gaming what it is today

And the casuals will enjoy it while you sulk in a corner with your controller and shout WHY GAMING!  WHYYYYY! at the heavens.
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« Reply #162 on: June 16, 2010, 08:43:03 PM »

I think this thread needs to lighten up a bit:

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« Reply #163 on: June 16, 2010, 08:43:41 PM »

Quote from: jblank on June 16, 2010, 08:31:09 PM

Because when a company throws money at something huge like this (in their mind) they feel pressured to support it. That means more resources towards it and away from other things and quality will inevitably suffer, especially when vendors feel pressure to include motion stuff in games where it shouldn't be present.

Why should I find another hobby? I'm the type of gamer they should WANT to keep. I buy all new games (I have probably bought 75 games in the last year), I have all 3 system, etc, etc, etc. Why should I have to bounce out of the hobby? Let the casual gamer go, I am harder to attract and keep than they are.

Ridiculous. Companies will always be looking for something new or different to differentiate their product to draw more people in. Hardcore gaming is in no danger of being marginalized because new types of games and control schemes are expanding the market. There is plenty of room and plenty of money to go around in an industry this huge.

A perfect example of an industry that HAS marginalized itself is the comic book industry. When I was a kid, comics were everywhere- grocery stores, newsstands, etc. Now it is almost completely focused on comics specialty shops and people wonder why their customer base is almost completely comprised of the adults who were drawn in back in the day. That audience is shrinking, despite the fact that comics properties are bigger and more prevalent in mass media than they ever have before, with blockbuster movies and tv and such.  If all the game companies ever focused on was the hardcore, the industry would slowly eat itself and die.

You need to learn how to share games with the non-hardcore. They have a taste of it and they aren't going away, and companies will continue to try to appeal to those audiences. Live and let live, dude.
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« Reply #164 on: June 16, 2010, 08:45:03 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on June 16, 2010, 08:43:03 PM

I think this thread needs to lighten up a bit:



Get that virtual puppy out of my face!

 icon_biggrin
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« Reply #165 on: June 16, 2010, 08:45:13 PM »

I'm done with this thread, you guys can all group up and have a motion controlled virtual masterbation session now.
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« Reply #166 on: June 16, 2010, 08:45:46 PM »

Oh jblank...
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« Reply #167 on: June 16, 2010, 08:47:28 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on June 16, 2010, 08:43:03 PM

I think this thread needs to lighten up a bit:



Sad puppy always brings a tear to my cold dead heart.
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« Reply #168 on: June 16, 2010, 08:49:29 PM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on June 16, 2010, 08:43:41 PM


Ridiculous. Companies will always be looking for something new or different to differentiate their product to draw more people in. Hardcore gaming is in no danger of being marginalized because new types of games and control schemes are expanding the market. There is plenty of room and plenty of money to go around in an industry this huge.

I'm not sure about that.  Look at the new SOCOM game.  It was as hard core as a console shooter could be. And it is getting waggled.  Sure you can still play it with a regular controller.  But all of the time and money they are putting into waggle controls is time and money that isn't going towards game balancing, map design, netcode optimization, etc.  Not to mention the fundamental design decisions that have to be made with waggle controls in mind.

 I am happy that Call of Duty, Halo, Gears, etc have stayed away from waggle so far.  But if SOCOM sells well, (doubtful I admit) it could happen.

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« Reply #169 on: June 16, 2010, 08:56:54 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on June 16, 2010, 08:49:29 PM

Quote from: th'FOOL on June 16, 2010, 08:43:41 PM


Ridiculous. Companies will always be looking for something new or different to differentiate their product to draw more people in. Hardcore gaming is in no danger of being marginalized because new types of games and control schemes are expanding the market. There is plenty of room and plenty of money to go around in an industry this huge.

I'm not sure about that.  Look at the new SOCOM game.  It was as hard core as a console shooter could be. And it is getting waggled.  Sure you can still play it with a regular controller.  But all of the time and money they are putting into waggle controls is time and money that isn't going towards game balancing, map design, netcode optimization, etc.  Not to mention the fundamental design decisions that have to be made with waggle controls in mind.

 I am happy that Call of Duty, Halo, Gears, etc have stayed away from waggle so far.  But if SOCOM sells well, (doubtful I admit) it could happen.



So experimentation should be avoided? What if they implement it and it's AWESOME? What if it ushers in a type of gameplay that is more immersive and fun? I think Sony's attempts to introduce this to the more hardcore games makes a lot more sense than Microsoft's 'mii-too' approach.

Besides, this assumption takes a huge leap as to how budget is allocated on a game. Chances are, especially in the case of SOCOM, MORE money is being thrown at it rather than reallocated
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« Reply #170 on: June 16, 2010, 08:57:22 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on June 16, 2010, 08:49:29 PM

Quote from: th'FOOL on June 16, 2010, 08:43:41 PM


Ridiculous. Companies will always be looking for something new or different to differentiate their product to draw more people in. Hardcore gaming is in no danger of being marginalized because new types of games and control schemes are expanding the market. There is plenty of room and plenty of money to go around in an industry this huge.

I'm not sure about that.  Look at the new SOCOM game.  It was as hard core as a console shooter could be. And it is getting waggled.  Sure you can still play it with a regular controller.  But all of the time and money they are putting into waggle controls is time and money that isn't going towards game balancing, map design, netcode optimization, etc.  Not to mention the fundamental design decisions that have to be made with waggle controls in mind.

 I am happy that Call of Duty, Halo, Gears, etc have stayed away from waggle so far.  But if SOCOM sells well, (doubtful I admit) it could happen.



Because we know that the people who work on game balancing, map design, and netcode optimization are the ones implementing waggle controls, right?  Which is taking time away from their jobs that they should use on game balancing, map design, and netcode optimization.

 icon_neutral
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 09:02:21 PM by MaxSteele » Logged
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« Reply #171 on: June 16, 2010, 10:33:59 PM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on June 16, 2010, 08:56:54 PM

I think Sony's attempts to introduce this to the more hardcore games makes a lot more sense than Microsoft's 'mii-too' approach.

Yeah, I find the mii-too approach from both companies.  Sony was originally saying how new and cool their motion control would be and it ended up being a wii-mote with lolly-pop attachment.  MS went with no controller, but the release games are almost all Wii games.  Right now, I'm thinking Sony made the better choice.  Easier to work with.  I'm really hoping MS has some cool stuff hidden up it's sleeve for the Kinect (including a much better price than rumored). 
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« Reply #172 on: June 16, 2010, 10:43:50 PM »

Quote from: MaxSteele on June 16, 2010, 08:57:22 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on June 16, 2010, 08:49:29 PM

Quote from: th'FOOL on June 16, 2010, 08:43:41 PM


Ridiculous. Companies will always be looking for something new or different to differentiate their product to draw more people in. Hardcore gaming is in no danger of being marginalized because new types of games and control schemes are expanding the market. There is plenty of room and plenty of money to go around in an industry this huge.

I'm not sure about that.  Look at the new SOCOM game.  It was as hard core as a console shooter could be. And it is getting waggled.  Sure you can still play it with a regular controller.  But all of the time and money they are putting into waggle controls is time and money that isn't going towards game balancing, map design, netcode optimization, etc.  Not to mention the fundamental design decisions that have to be made with waggle controls in mind.

 I am happy that Call of Duty, Halo, Gears, etc have stayed away from waggle so far.  But if SOCOM sells well, (doubtful I admit) it could happen.



Because we know that the people who work on game balancing, map design, and netcode optimization are the ones implementing waggle controls, right?  Which is taking time away from their jobs that they should use on game balancing, map design, and netcode optimization.

 icon_neutral

I said time and money.  Of course the people aren't same, but the budget may be getting divided up differently in terms who they hire and how they test.  Also the game is being designed around the features, (and limitations of) of the Move control system.  I've heard an interview with one of the designers on a recent Podcast.  We'll see how it turns out. But I have not played a shooter on the Wii where I felt comfortable enough with the controls to feel competitive online. Also I got the impression that the devs were being forced by Sony to add the waggle, they were not adding it by choice.  

My point is that people said wagglemania would not affect hard core gamers, but try telling that to the SOCOM community.  Trust me they are not happy right now.  I'm not saying hardcore gaming is doomed.  But waggle got it's nose under the tent a few years back, now it's got it's head under.  And until I play a game where it works well, I will continue to be skeptical.  
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 10:54:14 PM by denoginizer » Logged

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« Reply #173 on: June 16, 2010, 11:11:20 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on June 16, 2010, 10:43:50 PM

Quote from: MaxSteele on June 16, 2010, 08:57:22 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on June 16, 2010, 08:49:29 PM

Quote from: th'FOOL on June 16, 2010, 08:43:41 PM


Ridiculous. Companies will always be looking for something new or different to differentiate their product to draw more people in. Hardcore gaming is in no danger of being marginalized because new types of games and control schemes are expanding the market. There is plenty of room and plenty of money to go around in an industry this huge.

I'm not sure about that.  Look at the new SOCOM game.  It was as hard core as a console shooter could be. And it is getting waggled.  Sure you can still play it with a regular controller.  But all of the time and money they are putting into waggle controls is time and money that isn't going towards game balancing, map design, netcode optimization, etc.  Not to mention the fundamental design decisions that have to be made with waggle controls in mind.

 I am happy that Call of Duty, Halo, Gears, etc have stayed away from waggle so far.  But if SOCOM sells well, (doubtful I admit) it could happen.



Because we know that the people who work on game balancing, map design, and netcode optimization are the ones implementing waggle controls, right?  Which is taking time away from their jobs that they should use on game balancing, map design, and netcode optimization.

 icon_neutral

I said time and money.  Of course the people aren't same, but the budget may be getting divided up differently in terms who they hire and how they test.  Also the game is being designed around the features, (and limitations of) of the Move control system.  I've heard an interview with one of the designers on a recent Podcast.  We'll see how it turns out. But I have not played a shooter on the Wii where I felt comfortable enough with the controls to feel competitive online. Also I got the impression that the devs were being forced by Sony to add the waggle, they were not adding it by choice.  

My point is that people said wagglemania would not affect hard core gamers, but try telling that to the SOCOM community.  Trust me they are not happy right now.  I'm not saying hardcore gaming is doomed.  But waggle got it's nose under the tent a few years back, now it's got it's head under.  And until I play a game where it works well, I will continue to be skeptical.  

Here is a direct quote from the Sony press conference from Peter Dille:

"As you'll see with games from SOCOM 4 to NBA 2k 11, with the capacity of blu-ray, we can put both the traditional game and the Playstation Move version on the same disc."

The SOCOM community needs to pay attention when announcements are made.  They get their traditional game.

The sky is not falling.  Please return to your homes.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 11:19:54 PM by MaxSteele » Logged
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« Reply #174 on: June 16, 2010, 11:19:20 PM »

Quote from: jblank on June 16, 2010, 08:45:13 PM

I'm done with this thread, you guys can all group up and have a motion controlled virtual masterbation session now.

I think jblank has been posting too much on QT3 where that method of discussion is fairly common.
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« Reply #175 on: June 16, 2010, 11:44:25 PM »

Quote from: MaxSteele on June 16, 2010, 11:11:20 PM

Here is a direct quote from the Sony press conference from Peter Dille:

"As you'll see with games from SOCOM 4 to NBA 2k 11, with the capacity of blu-ray, we can put both the traditional game and the Playstation Move version on the same disc."

The SOCOM community needs to pay attention when announcements are made.  They get their traditional game.

The sky is not falling.  Please return to your homes.

Yeah Sony's press conferences are always reliable sources of unbiased information with no spin whatsoever.   slywink  You didn't really just use a Sony press conference quote to support your argument, did you?  In the past Sony has told us that backwards compatibility was everything and rumble was just a fad.


I am not totally against Kinect and Move.  I'd love to see the option for voice commands that Kinect seemed to be capable of during the 2009 E3 presentation.  And I do hope we always have fully functional versions of both control schemes in the future.  But I kind of agree with the talk in the SOCOM forums that a game is designed differently when motion controls are factored in.  No matter what Sony and Zipper might say. I'm not a huge SOCOM fan.  So I'm not that bothered by it.  

But if motion controls come to Call of Duty or Battlefield, I may start to get concerned.
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« Reply #176 on: June 16, 2010, 11:55:16 PM »

And to step away from this conversation for a moment, we have this issue with Kinetc via IGN:

Quote
Standing Room Only

Right now, Kinect only works when you stand. This includes menu navigation. All the cool options to grab a slider and advance through frames of a movie you are watching only work when you are on your feet. Kinect, we've been told, has problems handling your skeletal frame while sitting. The voice commands still work, but every game we've seen and even simple menu navigation have to be done with you out of your seat. That's not exactly how I want to watch my movies. If the focus for Kinect is creating games like Dance Central that naturally would require you to be off your couch, that's great. But I have to say, no one thinks "I am driving a car!" while standing up in their living room.

Microsoft tells us that you can sit while playing Kinect. It just varies based on the experience. This remains a concern until we ourselves can test out Kinect from our rear.

Huh. I sure hope 'varies based on the experience' means that yes, the device can see you sitting all the time.
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« Reply #177 on: June 17, 2010, 12:08:21 AM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 16, 2010, 05:09:49 PM

Quote from: TiLT on June 16, 2010, 03:18:16 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on June 16, 2010, 02:55:47 PM

Quote from: Destructor on June 16, 2010, 02:50:55 PM

Microsoft totally bombed at E3. If I wanted to do the 'real life' things that Kinetc does, I'll just go into REAL LIFE and do it.

yeah!  if I wanted to whip out my lightsaber and fight Darth Vader I'd just give him a ring and we could go down to the park!  he could bring his fried chicken pot pie.

 Tongue

I thought the lightsaber combat references were funny back when the Wii was new, and I think they're funny now. I simply can't see any way in which lightsaber combat can be done with this kind of technology without making the whole thing seem completely stupid. Few of us can fence in the first place, and the Star Wars battles have always been really fast-paced (perhaps with the exception of the battle between Vader and Obi-Wan in Episode 4). Being able to wave a lightsaber around is one thing. Being able to actually fight with it is another. I simply don't think it can be done in a satisfying way.


None of these games are meant to be a lightsaber simulator, though.  They are meant to be a fun experience that makes you feel like you're weilding a lightsaber.  That should not be as hard to do.

I'm way behind in the thread, but there was this game I played in an arcade a good while ago that had you holding a plastic sword and slashing at ninjas or something.  Maybe my memory is inflating things, but I remember the on-screen sword being more or less 1:1 to how I was holding the plastic sword, and the thing would slash where I slashed the sword.  I've been waiting for the home version of that for a while now.
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« Reply #178 on: June 17, 2010, 12:11:05 AM »

Quote from: denoginizer on June 16, 2010, 11:44:25 PM

Quote from: MaxSteele on June 16, 2010, 11:11:20 PM

Here is a direct quote from the Sony press conference from Peter Dille:

"As you'll see with games from SOCOM 4 to NBA 2k 11, with the capacity of blu-ray, we can put both the traditional game and the Playstation Move version on the same disc."

The SOCOM community needs to pay attention when announcements are made.  They get their traditional game.

The sky is not falling.  Please return to your homes.

Yeah Sony's press conferences are always reliable sources of unbiased information with no spin whatsoever.   slywink  You didn't really just use a Sony press conference quote to support your argument, did you?  In the past Sony has told us that backwards compatibility was everything and rumble was just a fad.


I am not totally against Kinect and Move.  I'd love to see the option for voice commands that Kinect seemed to be capable of during the 2009 E3 presentation.  And I do hope we always have fully functional versions of both control schemes in the future.  But I kind of agree with the talk in the SOCOM forums that a game is desined differently when motion controls are factored in.  No matter what Sony and Zipper might say. I'm not a huge SOCOM fan.  So I'm not that bothered by it.  

But if motion controls come to Call of Duty or Battlefield, I may start to get concerned.

Haha!  Touche' on the 'using a Sony press conference quote to prove a point'.

I will keep a specific eye on SOCOM 4 for the PS3 to see if they do a combination of traditional and Move versions on the same disc.  I have no interest in the game or the platform, but I would definitely like to see if such a thing happens.
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« Reply #179 on: June 17, 2010, 12:54:39 AM »

so are they going to have separate play lists for people using Move and people not using Move?
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« Reply #180 on: June 17, 2010, 01:28:21 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 17, 2010, 12:54:39 AM

so are they going to have separate play lists for people using Move and people not using Move?

Just guessing, but the console is going to know if you have Move or not.  If you do, then that means you've drank Sony's kool-aid on the technology, and it'll enable the Move for the game.  If you don't, then you get to use the traditional controls.
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« Reply #181 on: June 17, 2010, 01:33:17 AM »

Quote from: MaxSteele on June 17, 2010, 01:28:21 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on June 17, 2010, 12:54:39 AM

so are they going to have separate play lists for people using Move and people not using Move?

Just guessing, but the console is going to know if you have Move or not.  If you do, then that means you've drank Sony's kool-aid on the technology, and it'll enable the Move for the game.  If you don't, then you get to use the traditional controls.

yeah, but what I was wondering if they were going to let people using the Move for their control scheme mingle with those using the DS3.
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« Reply #182 on: June 17, 2010, 02:01:42 AM »

Quote from: Destructor on June 16, 2010, 11:55:16 PM

And to step away from this conversation for a moment, we have this issue with Kinetc via IGN:

Quote
Standing Room Only

Right now, Kinect only works when you stand. This includes menu navigation. All the cool options to grab a slider and advance through frames of a movie you are watching only work when you are on your feet. Kinect, we've been told, has problems handling your skeletal frame while sitting. The voice commands still work, but every game we've seen and even simple menu navigation have to be done with you out of your seat. That's not exactly how I want to watch my movies. If the focus for Kinect is creating games like Dance Central that naturally would require you to be off your couch, that's great. But I have to say, no one thinks "I am driving a car!" while standing up in their living room.

Microsoft tells us that you can sit while playing Kinect. It just varies based on the experience. This remains a concern until we ourselves can test out Kinect from our rear.

Huh. I sure hope 'varies based on the experience' means that yes, the device can see you sitting all the time.

Damn, if true, that's a huge flaw and I think that will be a major issue in the long run. 
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« Reply #183 on: June 17, 2010, 02:13:33 AM »

Bets on whether or not it will end up asking some very obese people to get off the couch even if they're already off the couch?
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« Reply #184 on: June 17, 2010, 04:47:10 PM »

If you have to stand for this thing, there's no way it'll succeed.

It sounds more and more like they had big dreams, but were only able to implement a small part of those dreams.

No wonder Molyneux was so excited about it.
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« Reply #185 on: June 17, 2010, 04:49:05 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on June 17, 2010, 02:13:33 AM

Bets on whether or not it will end up asking some very obese people to get off the couch even if they're already off the couch?

I was thinking more that it will ask short people to stand up even though they are already standing.  icon_biggrin
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« Reply #186 on: June 17, 2010, 06:54:44 PM »

I told my wife about the no-couch thing, and she said, "Wow, the couch potatoes are going to hate that."  Then she thought for a second and said, "The normal people are going to hate that, too."
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« Reply #187 on: June 17, 2010, 06:55:18 PM »

Engadget has a good write-up on Kinect

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/17/kinect-guide-a-preview-and-explanation-of-microsofts-new-full/
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« Reply #188 on: June 17, 2010, 08:15:17 PM »

Quote from: rickfc on June 17, 2010, 06:55:18 PM


Quote
Oh, and word of warning for the lazies: not a single game we've been demoed so far can be played sitting down, although we've been assured you can operate the Dashboard without leaving the couch. There's also a real sweet spot within which Kinect can detect your movements most accurately -- too close to the TV and it might miss your kick, too far and you might fall out of its IR range.

while i respect the 'give it a chance' crowd, i'll be happy just sitting on the sidelines smile ...
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« Reply #189 on: June 17, 2010, 08:26:40 PM »

Quote from: rickfc on June 17, 2010, 06:55:18 PM


Gizmodo also has a lengthy write-up

http://gizmodo.com/5565657/xbox-360-kinect-teases-the-next-era-of-computing
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« Reply #190 on: June 17, 2010, 08:51:47 PM »

The problem with Kinect, I feel, is that it's currently trying to incorporate a new gameplay style to the 360 rather than enhancing it.  The Forza example is a great one where you can actually look to change the camera.  If MS had that in mind I wouldn't have a issue with spending money on it.

Imagine a motorcyle/dirtbike game where you actually lean into the corners, but still use the triggers for throttle and brake.  Or throwing a grenade in CoD/BF/Halo where you had to do a throwing motion, or melee for that matter (picture having to decide whether you actually wanted to take one hand from the controller to stab someone, rather than tap a sick/button).  Hell, even pinball where you can tilt the machine just by shaking the controller a little.

Even the voice commands would create a more immersive feeling, like the spotting people in BF:BC2.  Instead of mashing the Select button, you had to call out "enemy tank" or "sniper in the window".  Hell, let me call balls and strikes in a baseball game just for shits and giggles.

There's just so much integration that could possibly be made with the 360 WITH a controller, but they are (as of now) focusing on Kinect with Live services as a touch point, when I don't recall anyone spending that much time on Live services (outside Netflix).
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« Reply #191 on: June 17, 2010, 09:34:45 PM »

Quote from: Hiccup on June 17, 2010, 08:51:47 PM

The problem with Kinect, I feel, is that it's currently trying to incorporate a new gameplay style to the 360 rather than enhancing it.  The Forza example is a great one where you can actually look to change the camera.  If MS had that in mind I wouldn't have a issue with spending money on it.

Imagine a motorcyle/dirtbike game where you actually lean into the corners, but still use the triggers for throttle and brake.  Or throwing a grenade in CoD/BF/Halo where you had to do a throwing motion, or melee for that matter (picture having to decide whether you actually wanted to take one hand from the controller to stab someone, rather than tap a sick/button).  Hell, even pinball where you can tilt the machine just by shaking the controller a little.

Even the voice commands would create a more immersive feeling, like the spotting people in BF:BC2.  Instead of mashing the Select button, you had to call out "enemy tank" or "sniper in the window".  Hell, let me call balls and strikes in a baseball game just for shits and giggles.

There's just so much integration that could possibly be made with the 360 WITH a controller, but they are (as of now) focusing on Kinect with Live services as a touch point, when I don't recall anyone spending that much time on Live services (outside Netflix).

Did you read the Giz article?
Quote
"But what about the hardcore games? The FPSs, the gameplay that requires 100% accuracy?" I push.

"Kinect isn't going to replace the controllers that have worked for those types of games for the last decade—that's not what we're trying to do. Kinect will work alongside those controllers for hardcore games. For throwing a grenade, for vocal commands, for..."

"For head tracking??"

"Yes, head tracking! Exactly." He gets a big smile. He wants to say more. Bound by Microsoft confidentiality agreements, he can't.
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« Reply #192 on: June 17, 2010, 09:59:21 PM »

Then why didn't they show any of that stuff?  I, too, think Kinect will be best when augmenting a normal game, but all they seem to be showing is how it can try to compete with the Wii for minigames and sports games.
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« Reply #193 on: June 17, 2010, 10:15:00 PM »

Quote from: The Grue on June 17, 2010, 09:59:21 PM

Then why didn't they show any of that stuff?  I, too, think Kinect will be best when augmenting a normal game, but all they seem to be showing is how it can try to compete with the Wii for minigames and sports games.

Maybe those capabilities weren't ready to show?  Who knows...it's pure speculation at this time, IMO.
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« Reply #194 on: June 17, 2010, 11:22:08 PM »

Okay.  Those articles make me feel a little better about Kinect.  I still think the release line up is weak sauce.  Still don't know about the price.  At least I feel there might be something worth looking forward too.  Not exactly a rounding endorsement, but it's better than what I was thinking just a day ago.
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« Reply #195 on: June 18, 2010, 01:23:21 AM »

You know, I bet emotes and stuff like that get used for Fable 3... imagine waving to someone in-game because you did.

I don't think they're looking at roleplay/ controller replacement.

I'll keep the ketchup handy in case I have to eat those words.
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« Reply #196 on: June 18, 2010, 03:07:10 AM »

Way back on the first page, but..

Quote from: MaxSteele on June 14, 2010, 03:16:56 PM

Quote from: Razgon on June 14, 2010, 01:44:50 PM

wow - thats cheating..!!! I wonder if it even works?

The presentation is taking place on a stage and the actor has his back to the audience.  Where would Kinect be?  That's right, pointing at the audience.  Do you think it would work in a live environment like that?  I don't.  That's the reason why the guy is acting it out instead of actually playing it.


It's acted out because that game doesn't exist yet.
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« Reply #197 on: June 18, 2010, 03:14:24 PM »

Game Over Move.

GAME.OVER.
















 Tongue
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« Reply #198 on: June 18, 2010, 03:34:03 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 18, 2010, 03:14:24 PM

Game Over Move.

GAME.OVER.
 Tongue

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« Reply #199 on: June 18, 2010, 04:05:56 PM »

IF 1C publishes a sequel to Birds of Prey that supports the rumored head tracking capability in Kinect, I'll buy that game with a Kinect the day it's released.  I'm almost certain my Track IR for the PC was as least $150 and all it was capable of doing was tracking head movement. That said, it's still one of the best peripheral investments I've ever made.

I agree with others that using kinect for augmenting / enhancing core 360 games is a better use of it. The problem I can see with that however, is that the dev budgets for those core games are already so steep, that many of dev studios may forgo the investment to implement it.
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