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Author Topic: Xbox 360 version 2  (Read 8329 times)
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Calvin
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« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2007, 09:51:48 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on January 05, 2007, 09:49:33 PM

Quote from: Calvin on January 05, 2007, 09:45:09 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on January 05, 2007, 09:43:14 PM

Quote from: Clanwolfer on January 05, 2007, 09:30:35 PM

I would sell mine and upgrade in a heartbeat, IF the HDMI output would also upscale regular DVDs.

It should.  MS does it now over VGA but isn't allowed to do it via component.  I would say there is 99.5% certainty they will upscale over HDMI. 

Wait wait wait. If I play a dvd on my dell monitor it will upscale, but not on my hdtv?

Not 100% sure if you are using a non 720p resolution on your monitor but at 720p, yes. 

MS added the upscaling ability back in the spring update.  Unfortunately they aren't able to do it over component due to licensing restrictions that mandate upscaling for TVs can only be done via digital connections.  However, the licensing does not apply to computers, ie VGA, so MS was able to add that ability for VGA users. 

EDIT- It will also upscale on TVs that have VGA connections as well. 
Yeah I run the equivalent of 1080i on my monitor, and on my hdtv as well. Too bad my tv doesnt have a vga port i guess. Kevin, another dumb question-will, for instance, a star trek regular season episode look better (for instance today I am watching deep space nine) with the upscaling, or just regular movies?
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« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2007, 10:03:25 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on January 05, 2007, 09:51:48 PM

Kevin, another dumb question-will, for instance, a star trek regular season episode look better (for instance today I am watching deep space nine) with the upscaling, or just regular movies?

I'll have to check later, but I want to say that upscaling 4x3 native content (which DS9 is) might cause the image to be artificially stretched.  At least I think that's what my Oppo upscaling DVD player does but I might not be remembering correctly and maybe the 360 doesn't handle it that way. 

Also, DS9 was shot on video, I believe, vice film and is inherently somewhat soft in presentation anyway so I'm not sure there is a lot of additional detail to be brought out in the image that isn't already coming through at 480p. 

So I would guess that older TV shows shot on video might not see much of an image quality jump but I'm just guessing.  Might have to put in a DS9 episode later just to see.  And most TV shows for almost the last decade have been shot on film or HD and they will certainly benefit. 
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« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2007, 10:08:36 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on January 05, 2007, 10:03:25 PM

Quote from: Calvin on January 05, 2007, 09:51:48 PM

Kevin, another dumb question-will, for instance, a star trek regular season episode look better (for instance today I am watching deep space nine) with the upscaling, or just regular movies?

I'll have to check later, but I want to say that upscaling 4x3 native content (which DS9 is) might cause the image to be artificially stretched.  At least I think that's what my Oppo upscaling DVD player does but I might not be remembering correctly and maybe the 360 doesn't handle it that way. 

Also, DS9 was shot on video, I believe, vice film and is inherently somewhat soft in presentation anyway so I'm not sure there is a lot of additional detail to be brought out in the image that isn't already coming through at 480p. 

So I would guess that older TV shows shot on video might not see much of an image quality jump but I'm just guessing.  Might have to put in a DS9 episode later just to see.  And most TV shows for almost the last decade have been shot on film or HD and they will certainly benefit. 

Ok I will experiment with a DS9 vs. Voyager vs. something else tonight. Thanks Kevin.
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« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2007, 10:15:48 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on January 05, 2007, 10:03:25 PM

Also, DS9 was shot on video, I believe, vice film and is inherently somewhat soft in presentation anyway so I'm not sure there is a lot of additional detail to be brought out in the image that isn't already coming through at 480p. 

DS9 was shot on film. It was telecined to video for editing and effects. All the Star Treks are really nice DVD transfers and would probably look even better upscaled. The SFX shots would probably benefit from it too, as it would emphasize some of the details.


EDIT: I need to clarify that it would look good upscaled if the scaler can recognize a 4x3 image and pillar-box (put  black bars on the sides of the image) the output
« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 10:26:11 PM by Andrew Mallon » Logged
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« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2007, 10:26:22 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on January 05, 2007, 10:15:48 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on January 05, 2007, 10:03:25 PM

Also, DS9 was shot on video, I believe, vice film and is inherently somewhat soft in presentation anyway so I'm not sure there is a lot of additional detail to be brought out in the image that isn't already coming through at 480p. 

DS9 was shot on film. It was telecined to video for editing and effects. All the Star Treks are really nice DVD transfers and would probably look even better upscaled. The SFX shots would probably benefit from it too, as it would emphasize some of the details.




oooh good to know Andrew. I spend an absurd amount of time with Star Trek DVDs playing in the background smile
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2007, 11:32:48 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on January 05, 2007, 10:15:48 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on January 05, 2007, 10:03:25 PM

Also, DS9 was shot on video, I believe, vice film and is inherently somewhat soft in presentation anyway so I'm not sure there is a lot of additional detail to be brought out in the image that isn't already coming through at 480p. 

DS9 was shot on film. It was telecined to video for editing and effects. All the Star Treks are really nice DVD transfers and would probably look even better upscaled. The SFX shots would probably benefit from it too, as it would emphasize some of the details.


EDIT: I need to clarify that it would look good upscaled if the scaler can recognize a 4x3 image and pillar-box (put  black bars on the sides of the image) the output

Ah, good to know. I know that it was sort of a big deal that Babylon 5 was shot on film which was fairly forward looking for the time and recall it being mentioned that, in comparison, Trek was on video, though maybe it was Next Generation they compared it to. 
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« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2007, 02:01:31 AM »

It was Next Gen though I'm fairly certain they went to film for the final seasons on TNG.
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« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2007, 02:26:20 AM »

Late adopting for the win!   thumbsup
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« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2007, 06:32:23 AM »

Actually, there's been no confirmation that the 120gb HD will be included standard in the new 360 version.  It'd be nice if it was, but I have a feeling that it won't.
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« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2007, 06:38:30 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on January 06, 2007, 06:32:23 AM

Actually, there's been no confirmation that the 120gb HD will be included standard in the new 360 version.  It'd be nice if it was, but I have a feeling that it won't.

HD are so cheap nowadays M$ is really ripping us off if it's not standard. But still, I will probably get a new version eventually, need a 1080p TV first.
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« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2007, 07:29:44 AM »

Quote from: Lee on January 06, 2007, 06:38:30 AM

Quote from: Turtle on January 06, 2007, 06:32:23 AM

Actually, there's been no confirmation that the 120gb HD will be included standard in the new 360 version.  It'd be nice if it was, but I have a feeling that it won't.

HD are so cheap nowadays M$ is really ripping us off if it's not standard. But still, I will probably get a new version eventually, need a 1080p TV first.

No no no, don't ruin the whole post with the slashdot "M$" thing frown

Yeah, I don't have a 1080p tv either, but HDMI to improve dvds over television, a bigger HDD, and can I dare to dream an HD-DVD included? Something like that would be worth a trade in and purchase for me.
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« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2007, 02:14:12 PM »

From GameInfromer: http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200702/N07.0216.1234.57890.htm

Quote
You canít keep a good rumor down. Just weeks after Microsoft stamped down talk that an HDMI-enabled Xbox 360, codenamed Zephyr, was in the works, the rumors are back. Retailers have confirmed that the new SKU is in their systems, set for a May 1 release for $479.99. In addition to the new video interface, the system would also pack a 120 GB hard drive into its nifty black exterior. Microsoft wonít officially confirm that such a configuration exists, but itís interesting that so many retailers are wrong in the same wayÖ

I wish they would quote which "retailers" have confirmed it.  Still looks more like a rumor to me, but interesting if true.
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« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2007, 05:37:41 PM »

Quote
You canít keep a good rumor down. Just weeks after Microsoft stamped down talk that an HDMI-enabled Xbox 360, codenamed Zephyr, was in the works, the rumors are back. Retailers have confirmed that the new SKU is in their systems, set for a May 1 release for $479.99. In addition to the new video interface, the system would also pack a 120 GB hard drive into its nifty black exterior. Microsoft wonít officially confirm that such a configuration exists, but itís interesting that so many retailers are wrong in the same wayÖ

That sounds too expensive.
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« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2007, 06:25:47 PM »

Quote from: Captain Caveman on February 18, 2007, 05:37:41 PM

Quote
You canít keep a good rumor down. Just weeks after Microsoft stamped down talk that an HDMI-enabled Xbox 360, codenamed Zephyr, was in the works, the rumors are back. Retailers have confirmed that the new SKU is in their systems, set for a May 1 release for $479.99. In addition to the new video interface, the system would also pack a 120 GB hard drive into its nifty black exterior. Microsoft wonít officially confirm that such a configuration exists, but itís interesting that so many retailers are wrong in the same wayÖ

That sounds too expensive.

And if it is that price and that spec, what will they do to grandfather in the "early adopters"? Unless they want a lot of ill will, deserved or otherwise, offering a sweet trade in deal or something seems appropriate.
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« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2007, 06:56:07 PM »

Quote from: Captain Caveman on February 18, 2007, 05:37:41 PM

Quote
You canít keep a good rumor down. Just weeks after Microsoft stamped down talk that an HDMI-enabled Xbox 360, codenamed Zephyr, was in the works, the rumors are back. Retailers have confirmed that the new SKU is in their systems, set for a May 1 release for $479.99. In addition to the new video interface, the system would also pack a 120 GB hard drive into its nifty black exterior. Microsoft wonít officially confirm that such a configuration exists, but itís interesting that so many retailers are wrong in the same wayÖ

That sounds too expensive.

Not reallly.  you figure the premium system is $399 right now, so adding in the HDMI and bigger HD could account for that.  Maybe they'll be smart and include a HDMI cable too.....
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« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2007, 07:02:14 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on February 18, 2007, 06:56:07 PM

Quote from: Captain Caveman on February 18, 2007, 05:37:41 PM

Quote
You canít keep a good rumor down. Just weeks after Microsoft stamped down talk that an HDMI-enabled Xbox 360, codenamed Zephyr, was in the works, the rumors are back. Retailers have confirmed that the new SKU is in their systems, set for a May 1 release for $479.99. In addition to the new video interface, the system would also pack a 120 GB hard drive into its nifty black exterior. Microsoft wonít officially confirm that such a configuration exists, but itís interesting that so many retailers are wrong in the same wayÖ

That sounds too expensive.

Not reallly.  you figure the premium system is $399 right now, so adding in the HDMI and bigger HD could account for that.  Maybe they'll be smart and include a HDMI cable too.....

I understand you're getting more... I'm just arguing that at this period in the console's life cycle, it doesn't make sense to be increasing the pricepoint for entry, especially considering that one of your primary selling-points is your lower price tag compared to your main competitor.
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« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2007, 08:05:25 PM »

as long as I can buy the 120 gb HD, I don't care about the HDMi as my TV only does up to 1080i. The only other issue I have is the pain in the butt getting all my stuff on my HD now to the new one.
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« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2007, 08:13:31 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on February 18, 2007, 06:56:07 PM

Quote from: Captain Caveman on February 18, 2007, 05:37:41 PM

Quote
You can’t keep a good rumor down. Just weeks after Microsoft stamped down talk that an HDMI-enabled Xbox 360, codenamed Zephyr, was in the works, the rumors are back. Retailers have confirmed that the new SKU is in their systems, set for a May 1 release for $479.99. In addition to the new video interface, the system would also pack a 120 GB hard drive into its nifty black exterior. Microsoft won’t officially confirm that such a configuration exists, but it’s interesting that so many retailers are wrong in the same way…

That sounds too expensive.

Not reallly.  you figure the premium system is $399 right now, so adding in the HDMI and bigger HD could account for that.  Maybe they'll be smart and include a HDMI cable too.....

I would really love it if the $479 price included the HD-DVD player built in. *That* would make it a day one purchase for me, without question. But, I think that would be too much to ask.  ninja
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« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2007, 08:25:19 PM »

Quote from: Jiffy on February 18, 2007, 08:13:31 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on February 18, 2007, 06:56:07 PM

Quote from: Captain Caveman on February 18, 2007, 05:37:41 PM

Quote
You canít keep a good rumor down. Just weeks after Microsoft stamped down talk that an HDMI-enabled Xbox 360, codenamed Zephyr, was in the works, the rumors are back. Retailers have confirmed that the new SKU is in their systems, set for a May 1 release for $479.99. In addition to the new video interface, the system would also pack a 120 GB hard drive into its nifty black exterior. Microsoft wonít officially confirm that such a configuration exists, but itís interesting that so many retailers are wrong in the same wayÖ

That sounds too expensive.

Not reallly.  you figure the premium system is $399 right now, so adding in the HDMI and bigger HD could account for that.  Maybe they'll be smart and include a HDMI cable too.....

I would really love it if the $479 price included the HD-DVD player built in. *That* would make it a day one purchase for me, without question. But, I think that would be too much to ask.  ninja

That would be an awesome deal, but it is not going to include a HD-DVD drive. In fact, that wouldn't be a very smart business move anyway now, since HD-DVD seems to be losing a lot of steam since CES. It might actually make people not want to get it, since Blu-Ray is really beating the pants off of HD-DVD right now in sales.
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« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2007, 08:27:09 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on February 18, 2007, 06:56:07 PM

Quote from: Captain Caveman on February 18, 2007, 05:37:41 PM

Quote
You canít keep a good rumor down. Just weeks after Microsoft stamped down talk that an HDMI-enabled Xbox 360, codenamed Zephyr, was in the works, the rumors are back. Retailers have confirmed that the new SKU is in their systems, set for a May 1 release for $479.99. In addition to the new video interface, the system would also pack a 120 GB hard drive into its nifty black exterior. Microsoft wonít officially confirm that such a configuration exists, but itís interesting that so many retailers are wrong in the same wayÖ

That sounds too expensive.

Not reallly.  you figure the premium system is $399 right now, so adding in the HDMI and bigger HD could account for that.  Maybe they'll be smart and include a HDMI cable too.....

Yeah, but HDMI and a bigger hard drive don't cost THAT much more. If they are not including a built-in HD-DVD drive...than I don't think it is a good deal at all.

Consider that you can get a PS3 @ $499 w/20GB hard drive and built in Blu-Ray or a 360 at $489 w/120GB hard drive and no HD-DVD. It will cost you an extra $200 for that.  You can then put whatever size HDD you want in the PS3 for cheap, since it will take anything off the shelf at Best Buy. It's not such a great deal when you look at it like that.
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« Reply #60 on: February 18, 2007, 09:17:17 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on January 05, 2007, 08:20:00 PM

HDMI! Finally! They better allow somekind of upgrade path though for current 360 owners.

The 120GB HDD is nice, but I really wish they would be like Sony and allow ANY HDD purchased off the shelf for use in the 360. The MS branded hard drives are horribly overpriced.

I doubt the system is set up to take any HDD, it's be sweet though.  I'll give props to Sony for that.  I think some of the MS people are a little ashamed of their HDD situation.  Hopefully they will have a reasonable price for the 120gig drive.  I wonder if they are still going to have a seperate 2.0 core and premium sytems?
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« Reply #61 on: February 18, 2007, 09:26:39 PM »

Quote from: Space Herpes on February 18, 2007, 09:17:17 PM

Hopefully they will have a reasonable price for the 120gig drive.

The 20 gig HD was what, $100? That is far from reasonable, so my hopes aren't high for a reasonable price on the 120 gig model.
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« Reply #62 on: February 18, 2007, 10:13:50 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on February 18, 2007, 08:25:19 PM

In fact, that wouldn't be a very smart business move anyway now, since HD-DVD seems to be losing a lot of steam since CES. It might actually make people not want to get it, since Blu-Ray is really beating the pants off of HD-DVD right now in sales.

That's some great circular logic right there. Isn't Blu-Ray doing well exactly because it was included with the PS3?
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« Reply #63 on: February 18, 2007, 10:26:08 PM »

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on February 18, 2007, 10:13:50 PM

Quote from: Hetz on February 18, 2007, 08:25:19 PM

In fact, that wouldn't be a very smart business move anyway now, since HD-DVD seems to be losing a lot of steam since CES. It might actually make people not want to get it, since Blu-Ray is really beating the pants off of HD-DVD right now in sales.

That's some great circular logic right there. Isn't Blu-Ray doing well exactly because it was included with the PS3?

Yes, that is why the 360 should have included HD-DVD from the start.

If they had included it from the start, or at least had a model last year with it built-in instead of a add-on (which is the kiss of death) Sony would have been hurting on many fronts, including what will be their major money maker in the end....Blu-Ray. HD-DVD was kicking ass last year, until the PS3 came out. That changed everything. Then came CES and the writing was on the wall. Sony, Fox and Disney are already saying it is game over and they have won. With Blu-Ray movies outselling HD-DVD movies almost 3 to 1 now (not to mention the HUGE advantage in hardware numbers that Blu-Ray has now and getting bigger everyday)....I'm inclined to agree. Including it later this year on the 360 is a day late and a dollar short as they say. HD-DVD is already getting it's head kicked in with the new releases this year. They really shouldn't prolong the inevitable any more.

Just think, if they would have had this new model out last year (w/HD-DVD), it would have killed Sony. MS could stand to use some more money....but Sony can't. HD-DVD would have crushed Blu-Ray and the 360 would have this in the bag, IMO. Oh well...  icon_smile
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« Reply #64 on: February 18, 2007, 10:39:35 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on February 18, 2007, 10:26:08 PM

Just think, if they would have had this new model out last year (w/HD-DVD), it would have killed Sony. MS could stand to use some more money....but Sony can't. HD-DVD would have crushed Blu-Ray and the 360 would have this in the bag, IMO. Oh well...  icon_smile

Preposterous.  They would've had to charge a Sony-like $600 and stuck people with a format they don't care about.  Blu-Ray's outselling HD-DVD, but they're both doing absolutely pathetically.  Movie/TV downloads could surpass them in dollar-terms in the next few years.
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« Reply #65 on: February 18, 2007, 11:33:05 PM »

Quote
Sony, Fox and Disney are already saying it is game over and they have won.

Well, of course they're saying that.  The job of the marketing department is to convince you that their product is worth buying, and the only way to do that is to say that they've already won the war.

Something that's bugged me about the blu-ray installed base numbers right now is that they all assume that a PS3 in a home is an installed blu-ray player.  However, while the player does exist, unless it's hooked up to an HDTV, it doesn't really count because no software will be sold for it.  Sony is constantly announcing installed user base numbers that include 100% of the PS3 sales, and claiming victory based on that, but it just isn't so.  The real test is in software, and that is pretty much a tie right now.  According to Sony themselves:

Quote
In response to an inquiry from Next-Gen, SCEA states that cumulative Blu-ray movie unit sales stand at just over 439,000 units in the US, while total HD-DVD sales are just under 438,000 units. Blu-ray currently stands as the number one new DVD format in unit and dollar sales in the US, according to research firm NPD Group.

That was from an article dated a week ago.  If Sony's saying that they're only ahead by 1,000 units, then this is still a very tight race.
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« Reply #66 on: February 18, 2007, 11:52:03 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on February 18, 2007, 11:33:05 PM

Quote
Sony, Fox and Disney are already saying it is game over and they have won.

Well, of course they're saying that.  The job of the marketing department is to convince you that their product is worth buying, and the only way to do that is to say that they've already won the war.

Something that's bugged me about the blu-ray installed base numbers right now is that they all assume that a PS3 in a home is an installed blu-ray player.  However, while the player does exist, unless it's hooked up to an HDTV, it doesn't really count because no software will be sold for it.  Sony is constantly announcing installed user base numbers that include 100% of the PS3 sales, and claiming victory based on that, but it just isn't so.  The real test is in software, and that is pretty much a tie right now.  According to Sony themselves:

Quote
In response to an inquiry from Next-Gen, SCEA states that cumulative Blu-ray movie unit sales stand at just over 439,000 units in the US, while total HD-DVD sales are just under 438,000 units. Blu-ray currently stands as the number one new DVD format in unit and dollar sales in the US, according to research firm NPD Group.

That was from an article dated a week ago.  If Sony's saying that they're only ahead by 1,000 units, then this is still a very tight race.

Yes, but if you look at the numbers, HD-DVD sold most of that months ago. Blu-Ray has sold 90% of it's 439,000 units in the last 2 months. That is why Sony and co are saying it's over for HD-DVD.

Take a look:

YTD vs Since Inception (as of 1/28/07)



See how Blu-Ray had sold 2 for every 1 HD-DVD? Also see how quick Blu-Ray has now caught up to HD-DVD on the 'Since Inception' aspect....they are both about equal (1,000 unit lead for Blu-Ray) as of mid-Feb. You have to also remember that HD-DVD had a quite a large head start over Blu-Ray and was about $500 cheaper for a player, until the PS3 came along.

Salesrank of top 10 products: Not only is Blu-ray pulling away, but HD-DVD is in freefall!



Blu-ray is the first to have THREE products in the top 100 at the same time. HD-DVD has never even had two! As of this morning 2-18, all three titles (Casino Royale, The Prestige, The Departed) are actually in the top 50. Pretty amazing.

The Departed #25
The Prestige #36
Casino Royale #46
« Last Edit: February 18, 2007, 11:54:58 PM by Hetz » Logged

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« Reply #67 on: February 18, 2007, 11:57:34 PM »

I thought this thread was about the Xbox2?  Why are people talking about Bluray and showing all kinds of fancy charts?
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« Reply #68 on: February 19, 2007, 12:03:33 AM »

Quote from: Brendan on February 18, 2007, 10:39:35 PM

Quote from: Hetz on February 18, 2007, 10:26:08 PM

Just think, if they would have had this new model out last year (w/HD-DVD), it would have killed Sony. MS could stand to use some more money....but Sony can't. HD-DVD would have crushed Blu-Ray and the 360 would have this in the bag, IMO. Oh well...  icon_smile

Preposterous.  They would've had to charge a Sony-like $600 and stuck people with a format they don't care about.  Blu-Ray's outselling HD-DVD, but they're both doing absolutely pathetically.  Movie/TV downloads could surpass them in dollar-terms in the next few years.

They are doing just the same as DVD did in the first year. As in not pathetically. Blu-Ray is about to take off in a big way. Casino Royale is going to be huge. Spiderman 3, PotC 3, Ghost Rider, Fantastic 4 - Rise of Silver Surfer, all the James Bonds.....only on Blu-Ray and all this year (well not all the James Bonds this year, but some will be out this year). All of those movies will move Blu-Ray players. Downloads will be nice, but 1) they take up a lot of space (especially on a 20GB HD!!!) and 2) NO EXTRAS. With Blu-Ray/HD-DVD you have HD extras and lots of interactivity. Won't get that with downloads, or if you do get any, it will be a ton more to download.
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« Reply #69 on: February 19, 2007, 12:09:14 AM »

Quote from: Kobra on February 18, 2007, 11:57:34 PM

I thought this thread was about the Xbox2?  Why are people talking about Bluray and showing all kinds of fancy charts?

Cause we were discussing the value of the new SKU and it came up. I don't know. It happens.

Anyway, sorry for my part of the derail. Feel free to continue the "XBox 2" discussion, Kobra.
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« Reply #70 on: February 19, 2007, 12:19:02 AM »

I think the thing people were trying to point out was all that commotion over the PS3, it's price, and the cost of those extra features it really wasn't that big a deal when you look at how this new Xbox version costs almost as much as the lower end PS3.

I also wonder if people will make as big a stink if they don't include an HDMI cable.

Overall though, it's just been said.  So this new 360 version is kind of an FU to early adopters, and their whole policy on not having a HD standard is kind of biting them in the arse.
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« Reply #71 on: February 19, 2007, 12:25:19 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on February 19, 2007, 12:19:02 AM

I think the thing people were trying to point out was all that commotion over the PS3, it's price, and the cost of those extra features it really wasn't that big a deal when you look at how this new Xbox version costs almost as much as the lower end PS3.

I also wonder if people will make as big a stink if they don't include an HDMI cable.

Overall though, it's just been said.  So this new 360 version is kind of an FU to early adopters, and their whole policy on not having a HD standard is kind of biting them in the arse.

Is it really any different than Nintendo releasing a DS lite? Oh wait it is different because the DS Lite works exactly the same as the original Ds and doesn't add sweet functionality after the fact that millions of people have bought a $400 system.  icon_evil

I don't see why the original 360 would have any problems using the 120gb Hard Drive. That's all I really want. It then makes it more viable to download and keep things on the drive. I just need an easy way to get my Save games etc over to the new drive. I still agree that its a punch in the gut to current owners, unless they come up with a sweet upgrade plan, and Microsoft does has come through in the past.
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« Reply #72 on: February 19, 2007, 01:25:36 AM »

Quote from: Hetz on February 19, 2007, 12:03:33 AM

Blu-Ray is about to take off in a big way. Casino Royale is going to be huge. Spiderman 3, PotC 3, Ghost Rider, Fantastic 4 - Rise of Silver Surfer, all the James Bonds.....only on Blu-Ray and all this year (well not all the James Bonds this year, but some will be out this year). All of those movies will move Blu-Ray players. Downloads will be nice, but 1) they take up a lot of space (especially on a 20GB HD!!!) and 2) NO EXTRAS. With Blu-Ray/HD-DVD you have HD extras and lots of interactivity.

I'm really looking forward to validating your prediction in a year.  I haven't met anyone outside of my highly technical co-workers who care at all about either format.  I can see we're not going to have a meeting of the minds on this given your contention that Ghost Rider will convince them to buy into the Sony machine.  Maybe all of the Ghost Rider extras will do the trick.

If "Zephyr" exists, it's clear that MSFT is betting on the convenience of downloads to beat Blu-Ray.

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117956232.html?categoryid=1009&cs=1&nid=2570
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« Reply #73 on: February 19, 2007, 01:36:39 AM »

Quote from: Kobra on February 18, 2007, 11:57:34 PM

I thought this thread was about the Xbox2?  Why are people talking about Bluray and showing all kinds of fancy charts?

Fancy charts are the future.

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« Reply #74 on: February 19, 2007, 01:42:07 AM »

Fancy Charts usually win arguments in my book. biggrin

One thing I think may sway Blu-Ray is when Spiderman 3 hits, otherwise I am willing to put my money on Digital Distribution in the near future.
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« Reply #75 on: February 19, 2007, 02:21:47 AM »

Quote from: Brendan on February 19, 2007, 01:25:36 AM

Quote from: Hetz on February 19, 2007, 12:03:33 AM

Blu-Ray is about to take off in a big way. Casino Royale is going to be huge. Spiderman 3, PotC 3, Ghost Rider, Fantastic 4 - Rise of Silver Surfer, all the James Bonds.....only on Blu-Ray and all this year (well not all the James Bonds this year, but some will be out this year). All of those movies will move Blu-Ray players. Downloads will be nice, but 1) they take up a lot of space (especially on a 20GB HD!!!) and 2) NO EXTRAS. With Blu-Ray/HD-DVD you have HD extras and lots of interactivity.

I'm really looking forward to validating your prediction in a year.  I haven't met anyone outside of my highly technical co-workers who care at all about either format.  I can see we're not going to have a meeting of the minds on this given your contention that Ghost Rider will convince them to buy into the Sony machine.  Maybe all of the Ghost Rider extras will do the trick.

If "Zephyr" exists, it's clear that MSFT is betting on the convenience of downloads to beat Blu-Ray.

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117956232.html?categoryid=1009&cs=1&nid=2570

I really don't see HD downloads taking off anytime soon. Standard Def downloads on the other hand, I can see that really hurting DVD cause that is much easier to download and store.

HD downloads though are huge. Do you want to download 50GB for Spiderman 3 in HD for $20, or would you rather buy it at Best Buy for $20? Sure you can compress the hell out of it and give it lossy audio and make it 5-10GB or so for download, but then you are going to give up extras and quality which defeats the whole purpose of HD. You also still have a whole day or more of downloading to do. So, in the end, which is really more convenient?
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« Reply #76 on: February 19, 2007, 02:23:05 AM »

Quote from: Brendan on February 19, 2007, 01:25:36 AM

Quote from: Hetz on February 19, 2007, 12:03:33 AM

Blu-Ray is about to take off in a big way. Casino Royale is going to be huge. Spiderman 3, PotC 3, Ghost Rider, Fantastic 4 - Rise of Silver Surfer, all the James Bonds.....only on Blu-Ray and all this year (well not all the James Bonds this year, but some will be out this year). All of those movies will move Blu-Ray players. Downloads will be nice, but 1) they take up a lot of space (especially on a 20GB HD!!!) and 2) NO EXTRAS. With Blu-Ray/HD-DVD you have HD extras and lots of interactivity.

I'm really looking forward to validating your prediction in a year.  I haven't met anyone outside of my highly technical co-workers who care at all about either format.  I can see we're not going to have a meeting of the minds on this given your contention that Ghost Rider will convince them to buy into the Sony machine.  Maybe all of the Ghost Rider extras will do the trick.

If "Zephyr" exists, it's clear that MSFT is betting on the convenience of downloads to beat Blu-Ray.

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117956232.html?categoryid=1009&cs=1&nid=2570

Sorry brendan, few gave a shit or thought dvd was the wave of the future. It took time, but it was. I am not saying blu-ray will beat hd-dvd or that one will emerge the clear victor-but as a 360 owner I can honestly tell you I thought getting an entire PS3 and a bluray player at the same time was a WAY better deal than spending 200 on an HDDVD addon to the 360.
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« Reply #77 on: February 19, 2007, 02:26:22 AM »

Quote from: Brendan on February 18, 2007, 10:39:35 PM

Quote from: Hetz on February 18, 2007, 10:26:08 PM

Just think, if they would have had this new model out last year (w/HD-DVD), it would have killed Sony. MS could stand to use some more money....but Sony can't. HD-DVD would have crushed Blu-Ray and the 360 would have this in the bag, IMO. Oh well...  icon_smile

Preposterous.  They would've had to charge a Sony-like $600 and stuck people with a format they don't care about.  Blu-Ray's outselling HD-DVD, but they're both doing absolutely pathetically.  Movie/TV downloads could surpass them in dollar-terms in the next few years.

Yes but they wont surpass anything once the hi def format becomes mainstream and more standard-the size of the discs will make it much less usable for hi def movies. Take the 360s service as an example, where HD-DVDs take literally days to download to play sometimes. I wont even get into the utter absurdity and inanity of making them a 24 hour rental either, since I know thats not your slice of the pie-but please don't try to defend it. There is no defense. It was an awful decision, and thus I won't download a movie from a service I love-sometimes it takes more than a day to watch a movie I payed 4 bucks for.
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« Reply #78 on: February 19, 2007, 02:31:28 AM »

Agree with Hetz and Calivin- HD downloads are definitely the future but mass acceptance is much farther out then many want to admit.  The infrastructure isn't there yet- not only in terms of bandwith but also in terms of hardware/software solutions- too much different DRM on everything means there is no universal solution which will severely hamper acceptance. 
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« Reply #79 on: February 19, 2007, 02:32:00 AM »

Quote from: Calvin on February 19, 2007, 02:23:05 AM

Sorry brendan, few gave a shit or thought dvd was the wave of the future. It took time, but it was. I am not saying blu-ray will beat hd-dvd or that one will emerge the clear victor-but as a 360 owner I can honestly tell you I thought getting an entire PS3 and a bluray player at the same time was a WAY better deal than spending 200 on an HDDVD addon to the 360.

You're underestimating the value of moving from VHS to DVD - DVDs offered no rewinding, scene access, easier storage, and were more durable (and, of course, you never had to tweak a tracking knob).  Blu-Ray/HD-DVD offer consumers a better picture if they have a high-end TV and "enhanced extras."  To the average person, they're just DVDs at twice the price.

I believe that BR will outsell HD-DVD but that neither will make a serious dent in the overall marketshare for DVDs anytime in the next five years, and that they'll eventually be supplanted by other offerings - downloads / on demand distribution perhaps.  After all, cablecard devices will be easier to find pretty soon now.
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