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Author Topic: Xbox 360 rpgs  (Read 4083 times)
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Azhag
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« on: June 06, 2007, 09:46:53 PM »

So, earlier in the year I was excited about the big RPGs being spread out in Microsoft's schedule... Now I'm looking at amazon and Blue Dragon, Mass Effect, and Eternal Sonata are all coming out within three weeks of one another? And then we'll have a 6 months drought of good rpgs probably. ARG!
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« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2007, 09:55:24 PM »

Quote from: Azhag on June 06, 2007, 09:46:53 PM

So, earlier in the year I was excited about the big RPGs being spread out in Microsoft's schedule... Now I'm looking at amazon and Blue Dragon, Mass Effect, and Eternal Sonata are all coming out within three weeks of one another? And then we'll have a 6 months drought of good rpgs probably. ARG!
Yeah, Microsoft completely screwed up the scheduling with ME and BD out so close to each other. ES is another publisher so thats up to them-I am glad its coming out then simply because I want to play it so much (indeed these are 3 of my top 5 anticipated games of the entire year!), but its going to be an immense challenge to play each one in time for the next with Bioshock throw in. Here is hoping that BD (which is, from all reports, essentially complete) gets moved up-it seems less likely ME will be moved up-if anything that one might get delayed-no one wants that, but on the other hand I am 99% sure its going to sell buckets-but ES and BD are iffier-ES looks destined for failure even though the demo was genius, so I really wish it had a month of alone time-BD is super hyped up, but its a back to basics anime JRPG that might turn off some and slow down the expected heavy first month sales.
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« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2007, 12:58:59 PM »

Yep. ME should have come out in June. It would have been perfect.
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« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2007, 02:35:52 PM »

They should push ME back to November.  That would be perfect.
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« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2007, 02:43:06 PM »

I don't really understand why they don't just release every game in November/December.  I mean that's the only time that people buy games anyway.
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« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2007, 02:19:24 AM »

RPGs tend to cluster, for some strange reason.  There was Rogue Galaxy in January, and then a few releases between February and May, and then 5 releases in the last two weeks of May.
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« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2007, 03:00:36 AM »

Quote from: Calvin on June 06, 2007, 09:55:24 PM

Quote from: Azhag on June 06, 2007, 09:46:53 PM

So, earlier in the year I was excited about the big RPGs being spread out in Microsoft's schedule... Now I'm looking at amazon and Blue Dragon, Mass Effect, and Eternal Sonata are all coming out within three weeks of one another? And then we'll have a 6 months drought of good rpgs probably. ARG!
Yeah, Microsoft completely screwed up the scheduling with ME and BD out so close to each other. ES is another publisher so thats up to them-I am glad its coming out then simply because I want to play it so much (indeed these are 3 of my top 5 anticipated games of the entire year!), but its going to be an immense challenge to play each one in time for the next with Bioshock throw in. Here is hoping that BD (which is, from all reports, essentially complete) gets moved up-it seems less likely ME will be moved up-if anything that one might get delayed-no one wants that, but on the other hand I am 99% sure its going to sell buckets-but ES and BD are iffier-ES looks destined for failure even though the demo was genius, so I really wish it had a month of alone time-BD is super hyped up, but its a back to basics anime JRPG that might turn off some and slow down the expected heavy first month sales.

. . . . .  Here are a couple more periods.  Please sprinkle them throughout your paragraph at your lesiure smile
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« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2007, 05:12:36 AM »

Quote from: Canuck on June 08, 2007, 03:00:36 AM

Quote from: Calvin on June 06, 2007, 09:55:24 PM

Quote from: Azhag on June 06, 2007, 09:46:53 PM

So, earlier in the year I was excited about the big RPGs being spread out in Microsoft's schedule... Now I'm looking at amazon and Blue Dragon, Mass Effect, and Eternal Sonata are all coming out within three weeks of one another? And then we'll have a 6 months drought of good rpgs probably. ARG!
Yeah, Microsoft completely screwed up the scheduling with ME and BD out so close to each other. ES is another publisher so thats up to them-I am glad its coming out then simply because I want to play it so much (indeed these are 3 of my top 5 anticipated games of the entire year!), but its going to be an immense challenge to play each one in time for the next with Bioshock throw in. Here is hoping that BD (which is, from all reports, essentially complete) gets moved up-it seems less likely ME will be moved up-if anything that one might get delayed-no one wants that, but on the other hand I am 99% sure its going to sell buckets-but ES and BD are iffier-ES looks destined for failure even though the demo was genius, so I really wish it had a month of alone time-BD is super hyped up, but its a back to basics anime JRPG that might turn off some and slow down the expected heavy first month sales.

. . . . .  Here are a couple more periods.  Please sprinkle them throughout your paragraph at your lesiure smile

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« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2007, 05:19:04 AM »

You know what - who cares? You don't have to play each of them the day they come out ya know? If the game is good it will still be good 6 months after release and with RPG's you don't have to worry about not having anyone to play MP with. So buy the one you are in the mood for and wait on the others.
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« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2007, 05:24:10 AM »

Quote from: Pyperkub on June 08, 2007, 05:19:04 AM

You know what - who cares? You don't have to play each of them the day they come out ya know? If the game is good it will still be good 6 months after release and with RPG's you don't have to worry about not having anyone to play MP with. So buy the one you are in the mood for and wait on the others.

the problem is the effect the releases being so close to each other will have on sales at the time when they will be watching the sales with a critical eye.  The industry isn't patient, and bad initial sales will affect future titles.  If Enternal Sonata or Blue Dragon tank on release then we'll see less JRPG's, and if Mass Effect tanks then the trilogy will not be completed.
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« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2007, 01:08:13 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 08, 2007, 05:24:10 AM

the problem is the effect the releases being so close to each other will have on sales at the time when they will be watching the sales with a critical eye.  The industry isn't patient, and bad initial sales will affect future titles.  If Enternal Sonata or Blue Dragon tank on release then we'll see less JRPG's, and if Mass Effect tanks then the trilogy will not be completed.

Exactly. Sad but true, unfortunately.
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« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2007, 02:10:06 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 08, 2007, 05:24:10 AM

Quote from: Pyperkub on June 08, 2007, 05:19:04 AM

You know what - who cares? You don't have to play each of them the day they come out ya know? If the game is good it will still be good 6 months after release and with RPG's you don't have to worry about not having anyone to play MP with. So buy the one you are in the mood for and wait on the others.

the problem is the effect the releases being so close to each other will have on sales at the time when they will be watching the sales with a critical eye.  The industry isn't patient, and bad initial sales will affect future titles.  If Enternal Sonata or Blue Dragon tank on release then we'll see less JRPG's, and if Mass Effect tanks then the trilogy will not be completed.

Ditto. I actually think ME and BD will sell very well, ME better than BD but both well enough to garner attention and sequels-the odd one out here is going to be Eternal Sonata. It comes last, its hyped up much less, its got wacky characters and concepts, a very limited marketing and hype campaign, and seems set up to fail-which is awful, because if the demo is an indiciation its going to be brilliant.
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« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2007, 02:44:14 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on June 08, 2007, 02:10:06 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on June 08, 2007, 05:24:10 AM

Quote from: Pyperkub on June 08, 2007, 05:19:04 AM

You know what - who cares? You don't have to play each of them the day they come out ya know? If the game is good it will still be good 6 months after release and with RPG's you don't have to worry about not having anyone to play MP with. So buy the one you are in the mood for and wait on the others.

the problem is the effect the releases being so close to each other will have on sales at the time when they will be watching the sales with a critical eye.  The industry isn't patient, and bad initial sales will affect future titles.  If Enternal Sonata or Blue Dragon tank on release then we'll see less JRPG's, and if Mass Effect tanks then the trilogy will not be completed.

Ditto. I actually think ME and BD will sell very well, ME better than BD but both well enough to garner attention and sequels-the odd one out here is going to be Eternal Sonata. It comes last, its hyped up much less, its got wacky characters and concepts, a very limited marketing and hype campaign, and seems set up to fail-which is awful, because if the demo is an indiciation its going to be brilliant.

Though I doubt there would be a sequel.  How many times can Chopin die?

Still, it would effect future, similarly risky game concepts.
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« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2007, 02:50:54 PM »

I predict that both Blue Dragon and Eternal Sonata will have disappointing sales.  The 360 userbase will ignore them in favor of: Bioshock, Madden, Halo 3, GTA 4, Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, etc.  I hope I am wrong, but that is how I see it.

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« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2007, 03:09:51 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 07, 2007, 02:35:52 PM

They should push ME back to November.  That would be perfect.

Frankly, they should push YOU off a cliff. November is too late; I'm thinking this afternoon. Tongue

I'm gonna buy all of them.
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« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2007, 03:38:11 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on June 08, 2007, 02:50:54 PM

I predict that both Blue Dragon and Eternal Sonata will have disappointing sales.  The 360 userbase will ignore them in favor of: Bioshock, Madden, Halo 3, GTA 4, Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, etc.  I hope I am wrong, but that is how I see it.



yeah, there's 4 games up there that will take priority over Blue Dragon or Eternal Sonata, plus others I'm sure.
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« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2007, 03:42:33 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 08, 2007, 03:38:11 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on June 08, 2007, 02:50:54 PM

I predict that both Blue Dragon and Eternal Sonata will have disappointing sales.  The 360 userbase will ignore them in favor of: Bioshock, Madden, Halo 3, GTA 4, Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, etc.  I hope I am wrong, but that is how I see it.



yeah, there's 4 games up there that will take priority over Blue Dragon or Eternal Sonata, plus others I'm sure.

I dunno, I think BD is giong to surprise people. I have zero idea why I am so convinced of this, but I think its going to sell well. Not great, but well enough to justify it and the sequel.
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« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2007, 04:03:20 PM »

My guess is that - unfortunately - Eternal Sonata will tank, simply because of the competition.  While I'm not that terribly intrigued by it's concept, any failure will set a bad precedent for other unique RPG's, or for anything "different" on the system.  I'd really like for the 360 to be more than just an FPS, racing, and sports console, but there needs to be some successes in other genres in order for that to happen.  I think Blue Dragon has a chance to do really well.  If they're smart, they'll plaster "From the creator of Final Fantasy" over every single available inch of ad space so people are aware that Sakaguchi is involved.

It really is unfortunate that they're all being released so close together.   I've got a self-imposed limit of 1 game per month, so only Blue Dragon will be getting my $$.  I'm sure I'll pick up the other two eventually, but won't be able to help out with that initial sales push that is so important.
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« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2007, 04:12:16 PM »

That's what I was saying, too, about ES.  How did Blue Dragon do in Japan?  I remember people lining up for it, but I also seem to remember that everyone who was going to buy it got it on the first day.

I'm not convinced Bio Shock will do all that well.  I think it'll be great, and I think core gamers will go apeshit for it, but I'm not convinced it's mass-market friendly.
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« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2007, 04:14:17 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 08, 2007, 03:38:11 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on June 08, 2007, 02:50:54 PM

I predict that both Blue Dragon and Eternal Sonata will have disappointing sales.  The 360 userbase will ignore them in favor of: Bioshock, Madden, Halo 3, GTA 4, Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, etc.  I hope I am wrong, but that is how I see it.



yeah, there's 4 games up there that will take priority over Blue Dragon or Eternal Sonata, plus others I'm sure.

I was referring to the general 360 userbase, not personal preference.  Unless you don't think Halo 3 and GTA 4 will sell that well on the 360?  icon_biggrin
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« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2007, 04:22:30 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on June 08, 2007, 04:14:17 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on June 08, 2007, 03:38:11 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on June 08, 2007, 02:50:54 PM

I predict that both Blue Dragon and Eternal Sonata will have disappointing sales.  The 360 userbase will ignore them in favor of: Bioshock, Madden, Halo 3, GTA 4, Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, etc.  I hope I am wrong, but that is how I see it.



yeah, there's 4 games up there that will take priority over Blue Dragon or Eternal Sonata, plus others I'm sure.

I was referring to the general 360 userbase, not personal preference.  Unless you don't think Halo 3 and GTA 4 will sell that well on the 360?  icon_biggrin

I was actually referring to personal preference and trying to make a point on how people will put other games over BD and ES.

plus I secretly hope Halo 3 tanks after the travesty that was supposedly the ending of Halo 2 icon_wink
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« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2007, 04:52:00 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 08, 2007, 04:22:30 PM

plus I secretly hope Halo 3 tanks after the travesty that was supposedly the ending of Halo 2 icon_wink

Wait a minute...

Halo 2 had a single player campaign ??  icon_wink
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« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2007, 05:13:16 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on June 08, 2007, 04:52:00 PM

Wait a minute...

Halo 2 had a single player campaign ??  icon_wink

sadly it included no 'teabagging' or bunny hopping Covenant although I'm pretty sure Master Chief called the Admiral a homo.....  icon_twisted
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« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2007, 05:32:12 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on June 08, 2007, 04:03:20 PM

My guess is that - unfortunately - Eternal Sonata will tank, simply because of the competition.  While I'm not that terribly intrigued by it's concept, any failure will set a bad precedent for other unique RPG's, or for anything "different" on the system.  I'd really like for the 360 to be more than just an FPS, racing, and sports console, but there needs to be some successes in other genres in order for that to happen.  I think Blue Dragon has a chance to do really well.  If they're smart, they'll plaster "From the creator of Final Fantasy" over every single available inch of ad space so people are aware that Sakaguchi is involved.

I agree with this completely-the issue with ES isn't it doing well enough to warrant a sequel, which may or may not be the plan-the issue it doing well enough to encourage smaller japanese devs and publishers to take a reasonble chance with a product and introduce it to the US market. We get, in general, less of the quirky, wacky, often stupid, often brilliant fun little games they have over there-and with off the wall RPGs this seems to be something that may become more and more of an issue with the 360 given its issues in Japan. Anyone who has tried the ES demo (whether you like it concept or not) has to admit that it has superlative, crisp, gorgeous anime/cartoon graphics with vibrant colors, lush landscapes, a slightly different, fun, TB/action combat hybrid, and an intriguing premise. Whether or not that came together for you like it did for me and made you love it or just think meh, its the type of game we NEED more of. But the poor planning of MS release schedule coupled with the baffling decision by ES's publisher to wait until September means the game stands a very good chance of tanking, and it will be a shame.
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« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2007, 06:08:50 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 08, 2007, 04:22:30 PM

plus I secretly hope Halo 3 tanks after the travesty that was supposedly the ending of Halo 2 icon_wink

Posting on the Internet != secret

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« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2007, 06:09:19 PM »

Kind of OT, but this got me thinking. I'd really like to see a KOTOR 3 on the 360. I loved the first two and I'm not a big RPG guy at all.
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« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2007, 06:29:59 PM »

A somewhat related question:  Does MS have anything to do with setting a game's release date, or is that the sole discretion of the publisher?   Just curious who the decision ultimately came down to that lumped these all together.
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« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2007, 07:54:41 PM »

Also slightly OT:

Quote from: jimmyorr99 on June 08, 2007, 06:09:19 PM

Kind of OT, but this got me thinking. I'd really like to see a KOTOR 3 on the 360. I loved the first two and I'm not a big RPG guy at all.

This would be great! I just restarted KOTOR (Xbox) and it has got me thinking how great a 360 sequel could be. nod

And any talk of pushing Mass Effect back to November must cease! It's bad enough that it will probably slip anyway, but I just convinced my girlfriend to give it to me for my birthday and therefore it must be released in September(!).
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« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2007, 12:42:11 AM »

Quote from: phormio on June 08, 2007, 07:54:41 PM

And any talk of pushing Mass Effect back to November must cease! It's bad enough that it will probably slip anyway, but I just convinced my girlfriend to give it to me for my birthday and therefore it must be released in September(!).

Well Assassins Creed is now due in November  dude so I can accept a September release.
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« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2007, 01:51:59 AM »

I'm not sure if this still holds true for the next-gen RPGs (with their presumably larger budgets), but RPGs don't have to sell a lot of copies in order to get sequels.  A lot of very niche RPGs, like Atelier Iris, the Shin Megami Tensei series, etc. all sold well enough in the US to get several sequels realeased here.  Outside of the biggies like FF and Bioware games, I think the RPG market is pretty small, but also pretty consistent.  Companies know thery're not likely to have a big hit with a niche RPG, but they can count on them consistently selling to the core RPG fans, and that must count for something.
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« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2007, 02:14:46 AM »

Quote from: EddieA on June 09, 2007, 01:51:59 AM

I'm not sure if this still holds true for the next-gen RPGs (with their presumably larger budgets), but RPGs don't have to sell a lot of copies in order to get sequels.  A lot of very niche RPGs, like Atelier Iris, the Shin Megami Tensei series, etc. all sold well enough in the US to get several sequels realeased here.  Outside of the biggies like FF and Bioware games, I think the RPG market is pretty small, but also pretty consistent.  Companies know thery're not likely to have a big hit with a niche RPG, but they can count on them consistently selling to the core RPG fans, and that must count for something.

The big issue is that such niche titles typically make most of their money in Japan and then any US release is gravy (assuming they can cover localization costs).  But with both 360 and PS3 doing poorly in Japan that means that there will be increased pressure to make up those sales in other markets. 
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« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2007, 08:06:24 AM »

And, in general, games for these next gen consoles are costing more to produce.  Which means more multiplatform, more Wii games, and more stylized artistic direction to cut down on graphics costs.

I'm really looking forward to the more US/Euro style RPGs coming out on the 360.  Although they're pretty costly to make, games like Mass Effect, Bioshock, Oblivion, and even Fallout 3 appeal to me a little more than JRPGs, usually this is because the characters and plots are more mature overall.  Whereas a lot of JRPGs have either teens, or adults that have the emotional maturity (or speaking ability) of teens put in weird and mature situations that would normally require mature responses, but end up being angsty teen responses.
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« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2007, 05:29:17 AM »

I think Blue Dragon will sell respectable numbers, on the sheer force of it's pedigree. 
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« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2007, 05:50:31 AM »

Quote from: SuperHiro on June 10, 2007, 05:29:17 AM

I think Blue Dragon will sell respectable numbers, on the sheer force of it's pedigree. 

what's its pedigree?

(I really haven't been paying attention)
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« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2007, 05:54:08 AM »

it's basically the Chrono Trigger team. 
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« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2007, 06:15:04 AM »

Quote from: SuperHiro on June 10, 2007, 05:54:08 AM

it's basically the Chrono Trigger team. 

Hell. Yes.
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« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2007, 12:36:46 PM »

Yeah, I think awareness about BD is pretty good. I think it'll do well for a 360 RPG that isn't Oblivion.
Eternal Sonata is going to tank for the reasons mentioned. I think sales for ES won't come close to
Enchanted Arms numbers because of the additional number of titles available. This is, of course,
extremely unfortunate. I've been talking it up in the store, but it's not helping.

Now, one thing that could help a LOT would be if they would release the damned demo at least
a couple of weeks before the game comes out and give people a chance to play it and give guys
like me a chance to tell people to go play the demo.
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« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2007, 07:19:45 PM »

Quote from: Mattc0m on June 10, 2007, 06:15:04 AM

Quote from: SuperHiro on June 10, 2007, 05:54:08 AM

it's basically the Chrono Trigger team. 

Hell. Yes.

aw, OK.  I played a bit of that one on an emulator awhile back but never got into it.
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« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2007, 07:41:24 PM »

Well, also pedigree of Final Fantasy creator and Dragonball Z creator.
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« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2007, 08:28:14 PM »

Quote from: Azhag on June 10, 2007, 07:41:24 PM

Well, also pedigree of Final Fantasy creator and Dragonball Z creator.

These two are the ones that come to mind for me as well. 

To us hardcore gamers, the Chrono Trigger name probably carries weight, but will mean nothing to the casual or younger gamer.  The names above, however...
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