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Author Topic: XBOX 360 more powerful than the PS3?  (Read 3646 times)
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Hetz
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« on: May 21, 2005, 02:14:12 AM »

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html

Wow.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2005, 02:29:45 AM »

Pretty sure they are talking about the same numbers over on Beyond 3D.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23170

They are a lot smarter on the technical stuff than I and they seem to think that document should be taken with a grain of salt (to put it kindly).
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Kev199
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« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2005, 02:46:03 AM »

It really doesn't matter to me how the stats are compared, it is the quality of the games that come out for the system.  If the XBOX 360 has an amazing game library a few months after its release, I may pick it up.  If the PS3 has an amazing game library, then i'll buy that.


Of course, I'll buy Nintendo's system so long as it comes with an updated Mario adventure. slywink
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Temjin
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« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2005, 03:53:16 AM »

So you're telling me Microsoft is putting out information that shows it has a superior console?  Amazing.   biggrin

Maybe tomorrow Sony will release a document showing how the Killzone 2 video was not only rendered in real-time, but only used 10% of the PS3's processing power.  

Why did IGN even bother to post this?
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RightBastard
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« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2005, 04:42:45 AM »

I think it's interesting.  I like that he did it.  It's biased, yes but seriously, who is going to give the PS3 a harder look than someone working for the competition?  And I doubt he would make up his numbers (though he might skew the facts in his, and X360's, favor) because he would quickly be corrected and lose tons of cred.

Now, what we need is for someone from Sony to break down the Xbox in the same way.
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« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2005, 08:19:41 AM »

Frankly, I won't bother comparing the two systems until I see some videos of game in action without any touching up.
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tripwire
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« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2005, 08:26:19 AM »

That comparison is of course slanted, although I do believe that the 360 will have an edge graphically.

The ATI R500 chip, coupled with the 360 having more memory available to the GPU are the main reasons why.

Until neutral tech sites get their hands on the consoles and we get some kind of performance figures, it's all a guessing game.
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Ralph-Wiggum
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« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2005, 12:41:25 PM »

As mentioned, it's pretty silly to assume that what's printed is completely accurate considering that it comes from Microsoft itself. On top of that, the preface to the article mentions that MS just changed some of the specs for the X-Box 360 (as a response to what they may have seen from the PS3?); who's to say that Sony won't change the PS3 specs sometime down the road?
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HankRaptor
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« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2005, 01:32:33 PM »

This is all nonsensical ramblings.. DONT MATTER who is more powerful, its all about killer ap.. you think Joe Sixpack cares about the tech specs?? thats why he buys a console instead of a PC.

The dreamcast was AWESOME what happened there? it had no Halo or GTA THATS what happened.
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Jumangi
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« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2005, 02:20:49 PM »

Quote from: "HankRaptor"
This is all nonsensical ramblings.. DONT MATTER who is more powerful, its all about killer ap.. you think Joe Sixpack cares about the tech specs?? thats why he buys a console instead of a PC.


True, when two guys are looking at the new GTA game in the store they are thinking "Wow look at the new GTA game", not how they wish it would have come out on the Xbox instead.

Quote
The dreamcast was AWESOME what happened there? it had no Halo or GTA THATS what happened.


It also didn't have a company with $50 billon in the bank either. smile
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kong
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« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2005, 08:28:47 PM »

I'm sure the xbox 360 will be more powerful.  The system is launching 6 months to a year before the ps3.  Microsoft cracks me up.
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Daehawk
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« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2005, 08:52:35 PM »

Phhssst we all now Sega will have a surprise release of an updated Genesis that will just blow all these upstarts out of the water.  Cool
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« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2005, 02:39:29 PM »

i'm no tech head. so answer this.

is the new console tech way ahead of current pc hardware? isn't the pc always being pushed and upgraded? why are we not seeing games on the pc that look like what the ps3 and xbox 360 can "supposedly" do?
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Dimmona
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« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2005, 05:10:12 PM »

Well, it looks like the rumors of developers dropping Xbox360 support and moving to the 'more powerful' PS3 weren't totally unfounded...
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« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2005, 05:16:07 PM »

Quote from: "zuggo"
i'm no tech head. so answer this.

is the new console tech way ahead of current pc hardware? isn't the pc always being pushed and upgraded? why are we not seeing games on the pc that look like what the ps3 and xbox 360 can "supposedly" do?

New consoles will be more powerful than PCs when they're released, then the tech will become cheaper and cheaper for PCs, then PCs will be the same, then better than consoles, and then new consoles will be released.  The circle of life.
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« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2005, 05:16:09 PM »

Smoke....Mirrors.

While at the Sony party this was overheard:

"Yea...2 TFLops?  Sure...when you are rendering a white screen"  

There is still a lot of b.s. number fudging going on so I'm not sold on either.  Guess its time to release the Jaded Knightshade Dragon.
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« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2005, 05:29:23 PM »

Quote from: "Dimmona"


Quote
The choice boiled down to performance, Eggebrecht said at E3 in Los Angeles. His company has worked with Microsoft's Xbox 360, but found PlayStation 3's 3.2GHz Cell chip offered more processing power.


Yeah... if by "processing power" he means "cash"
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Hetz
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« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2005, 05:58:53 PM »

Quote from: "Laner"
Quote from: "Dimmona"


Quote
The choice boiled down to performance, Eggebrecht said at E3 in Los Angeles. His company has worked with Microsoft's Xbox 360, but found PlayStation 3's 3.2GHz Cell chip offered more processing power.


Yeah... if by "processing power" he means "cash"


 :lol:
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Dimmona
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« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2005, 06:04:30 PM »

Quote from: "Laner"


Yeah... if by "processing power" he means "cash"


lol
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« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2005, 06:43:11 PM »

Quote from: "Dimmona"
Quote from: "Laner"
Yeah... if by "processing power" he means "cash"

lol

I'm trying to find that Money Hat Penny Arcade comic, but unfortunately I'm at work and the lack of bandwith is making things hard. biggrin
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corruptrelic
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« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2005, 08:33:24 PM »

I'm tired of hearing people say a console's powers dont' matter "It's all about the games!" if that were the case we'd all still be playing our Atari 2600's because after all who cares about graphics it's "all about the games!"
Frogger, anyone?

Power and graphics have a LOT to do with any PC or console. Would you rather play Unreal Tournament 2004 on a low-end system with a budget graphics card with everything turned-down (ie, today's PS2) or would you rather play it on a high-end gaming machine (ie, today's Xbox) that can play it flawlessly with everything turned up to the max?
You choose.
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« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2005, 08:42:46 PM »

How about "power alone does not matter"?

If the machines have comparable capabilities that the developers can put to use similarly, then it's all about the games. Power can make the difference ont her cross-platform titles (or other extras, like a kick-ass online service).
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« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2005, 05:48:47 PM »

To speak to Factor 5- first off the dev kit they have (per MS) is not the full extent of the power of the system.

The fact that the GPU is able to switch up resources between vertex and shaders is DAMNED impressive, and given 3x3.2 PowerPC (dual memory channel) CPUs to do with as you please, it would seem the Xbox360 is geared for flexibility, whereas the PS3 is a monster on physics, and, um, video playback.

Now, given the "prerendered VS live process" on Killzone2, I'd go with the strength of the PS3 and say it was "Video Playback". slywink If MS hasn't been able to get final product to developers until July, it baffles the mind that PS3 would be ready enough to produce KillZone3 with no hitches almost a year before it's first market release. I mean, really.

Microsoft is a thief, and Sony is a liar (and nintendo is a marketing guy). Who are you going to believe? I'd stick with the thief, myself. At least they don't lie. slywink

Now here's something important to me... PRICE POINT. If the PS3 is 500US; I'll have already spent my money on the XBOX360 before it even hits the market, As an Xbox Live guy, I'm hoping MS prices this system so low that it'd be a no-brainer to get the late adopters on board ASAP. A $250 pricepoint would destroy the landscape for the PS3, and only MS has the backing to afford that kind of dip in the books. (unless there's a Sony Spiderman3 movie coming out in the next 6 months  :roll: ).
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2005, 06:01:29 PM »

Why is everyone assuming $500?  This Gamespot story indicates it will likely be under $370 in Japan (same price the PS2 was when it launched):

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/24/news_6126410.html
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Devil
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« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2005, 06:27:14 PM »

I'm stealing from my own quote in the PS3 E3 thread:

From IGN:

Quote
Officials from Sony apparently told the newspaper that PlayStation 3s would sell in Japan for "less than 50,000 yen each." That translates to about $465 US dollars.


There's your 5 Bills.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2005, 06:49:32 PM »

But Japanese prices are almost always higher than in the US.  As I said in that E3 thread, $465 in Japan would probably equate to $400 US.  According to the Gamespot story, which is more recent than IGN's, Sony has now refined the price goal even further.

Sony *will not* officially announce a price until Microsoft does.  And their final pricing will likely be based on that MS pricepoint more than actual hardware cost, primarily in the US.  

If MS comes out at $300, then Sony won't go with $400.  Its too big of a gap and gives MS too much of an advantage.  If MS comes out at $400 and sells gangbusters then maybe Sony will revise their price up higher since it proves the market can bear it.  If MS comes out at $400 and sales are lower then expected then Sony will likely go lower.  

Why do you think MS hasn't announced a price yet?  You can bet their analysts are all over the PS3's specs and Sony finances trying to determine how low Sony could possibly go without bankrupting the company.
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Devil
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« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2005, 09:59:25 PM »

Why would anyone announce a price before they had to?
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« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2005, 11:45:25 PM »

Quote from: "Devil"
Why would anyone announce a price before they had to?


investors like to hear that sort of thing.
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« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2005, 02:31:42 AM »

I'm definately impressed with how far the Xbox and MS have come in the past few years.

Not a few people thought MS was crazy to release a game console, and that it would never do well.  Now it's talked about as the direct competitor for Sony.

Bill Gates may be a nerd...and an ultra-competitive (to the point of being a total asshat) nerd, but the man knows business.  And he has a crapload of smart people working for him...
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« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2005, 02:34:31 AM »

http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360-1.ars

Quote
interesting points:

1) IBM drew on the results of the same Broadband Processor Architecture (BPA) initiative that produced the Playstation 3's Cell processor in order to furnish the next-generation Xbox with a truly next-generation core that looks set to last at least the five-year life of the average game console.

2) Codenamed Xenon, the multicore PowerPC CPU that IBM designed for the Xbox 360 boasts a number of unique features that set it apart from any microprocessor seen to date.

3) MOST INTERESTING: This patent (patent number 20050099417) that Microsoft was recently granted covers a method for using procedural synthesis to do real-time skinning of 3D characters. The basic idea behind the patent appears to be as follows. Artists using standard tools (i.e.., motion capture, 3D rendering tools, etc.) generate a character model along with a series of key poses in an animation for that model. This model consists of a set of bones that have been skinned with a deformable skin.
here is the patent link: http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph...&RS=20050099417
 


 :shock:  :shock:  biggrin  biggrin
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Devil
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« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2005, 04:05:21 AM »

Quote
investors like to hear that sort of thing.


Even if doing it prematurely puts you at a competitive disadvantage?

Sony can say anthing they want at this point since the PS3 is likely a year or so away in the US. MS is going to have to come clean about everything real soon so I'd suspect they'd want to keep as much under wraps for as long as possible.

They don't start selling systems until they start selling systems.  :wink:

Talk and speculation are cheap!
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« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2005, 05:28:04 PM »

Accroding to gameindustry.biz, J Allard said that the 360 will be "in the neighborhood of $300". He basically said pricing would be similar to Xbox 1's pricing. He went on to say pricing would be announced within the next two months.

Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9204
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