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Author Topic: Xbox 360 is dead! PS3 has keyboard/mouse support!!!!  (Read 8008 times)
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Canuck
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« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2005, 12:55:13 AM »

I seriously doubt they'll make you buy their own keyboard and mouse.  A USB port is a USB port.  Sony doesn't make you buy Dual Shock controllers do they?  How about memory cards?  Or remote controls even for that matter.

As for having your friends over, nobody said you HAVE to use a keyboard or mouse-just use your controller then for god sakes! lol
And yes a keyboard is a little bit awkward on a couch.  I'm wondering if maybe you could do a controller/mouse set up.  You could use the controller in one hand for WASD and jump/crouch and you could use the mouse for looking and firing.  I'm sure most of us have optical mouses (mice?) these days and you can pretty much use those things anywhere with a high degree of precision.

Don't most people have coffee tables in your living rooms?  As long as the wife doesn't mind- you could always use that for the keyboard I suppose.

Anyways I cannot possibly see this as a bad thing.  FPS games just were not meant to be played with a controller.  I don't buy the argument that 'yes the control really sucks but as long as it sucks equally for everyone then it's fun.'

*edit*  I'm also not sure why we're comparing Splinter Cell to a first person shooter.  There really is no need for analogue movement.  Have you played HL2 lately?  Not exactly a lot of reason to creep along.  If you want to do that you can always just duck/move
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« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2005, 04:58:08 AM »

Quote from: "Destructor"
Quote from: "warning"
Just so I can be clear about this...

We will have the availability of a more precise control option with faster aiming speed for first-person shooter games.  And we're complaining about this?

Because more precision and faster aiming speeds are a bad thing?

More precision and faster aiming speeds are a good thing, don't get me wrong. Unfortunately, when it comes to online play, you will be slaughtered by the ones who have this control scheme verses a standard dual-analog controller. That's my issue here.

That's why the gaming consoles (in the past, anyway) were great for online games. You were all on equal ground as far as controller and CPU speed went. Anybody remember the original Quake (I think it was the original), where you could rocket jump higher the faster the CPU you had (and the more FPS you got in general)? To the pros, that's one heck of an advantage.


+1-the advantage for people using keyboard and mouse vs dual analog will be absolutely enormous-but I still think I would rather have the option for my consoles.
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Scott
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« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2005, 07:34:25 PM »

Quote
Unfortunately, when it comes to online play, you will be slaughtered by the ones who have this control scheme verses a standard dual-analog controller. That's my issue here.

So, you'd like to continue using the duel analog setup, which is inferior to the mouse/keyboard?  If people using the mouse/keyboard will slaughter those with the gamepads, then the mouse/keyboard setup must be a lot better.

Then, why argue to force others to continue using the crappy analog controller setup for FPS games?  It is crazy.  There is a better way out there, but since some people don't want to try and use it, force all of us to use the crappy analog controller?  

The duel analog controllers work great for a lot of games, but they are clunky at best for good shooters.  Why keep using a crappy system when something  better is there?  

If you really want to get good at these shooters, you need to practice hours and hours with the analog controller anyway.  Most people here will never compete with the really good kids.  So why suffer through the single player FPS games with crappy controls?  And, when online, have both options.  The good players will still beat you no matter what control setup you have.  Let those that want to use the better combination use it, and not have to play games that they played $60 with a crappy control setup.

I agree that the keyboard part could be improved.  Analog movement would be better, at least for some games.  For most FPS games, the analog controller doesn't matter, or offer any advantages.  Actually, the analog controller for movement is a huge disadvatage.  In most FPS online games, I'm running all the time.  There usually isn't a fast run option over normal run, so the analog stick is always pushed to the extreme direction.  It is more cumbersome to keep an analog stick all the way in one position, then just holding 'W'.  I also can go from forward to back with the keyboard faster then people can force the stick back, or strafe right/left with more precision then the analog stick that may make you go left/forward unless you position it perfectly.

Anyway, keyboard can be improved, but the analog stick isn't the answer for the competitive shooters out there.

If people are so annoyed about the possibility of the mouse/keyboard, why not ban using a steering wheel for racing games?  Not everyone can easily use a wheel in their rooms, and its a controller that gives an advantage to the few that can use it.
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« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2005, 10:38:29 PM »

If developers want to support mouse and keyboard, it shouldn't be hard for them to add a toggle box to the host's game set up menu.   Something like controllers only.  That way people who don't want to compete against mousers can choose to only play games without them.
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« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2005, 12:17:19 AM »

Quote from: "Hrothgar"
That way people who don't want to compete against mousers can choose to only play games without them.


Mousers... hey, aren't those the white robot rats from TMNT ? I imagine they wouldn't be stiff competition online... I mean, they don't have HANDS or anything. slywink
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« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2005, 01:30:28 AM »

Quote from: "Hrothgar"
If developers want to support mouse and keyboard, it shouldn't be hard for them to add a toggle box to the host's game set up menu.   Something like controllers only.  That way people who don't want to compete against mousers can choose to only play games without them.


That's actually a very elegant, perhaps easy to implement, and uncomplicated idea-which means its almost definately not going to happen.
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« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2005, 06:25:13 AM »

I abhor console FPS's because of the lack of KB/mouse control, so this is a HUGE plus for me.  Enough so to put the PS3 ahead of XBOX on my next console purchase plans.
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Arkon
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« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2005, 01:05:40 PM »

I don't understand using a KB and Mouse for a console at this point when I would have to have a desk/TV Tray to use it at my TV.
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JLu
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« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2005, 01:57:00 PM »

This won't affect my end console choice at all.  I rarely play games on my PC because I just don't enjoy using the keyboard/mouse combo for games.  Each to thier own...
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Canuck
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« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2005, 02:17:01 PM »

Quote from: "Arkon"
I don't understand using a KB and Mouse for a console at this point when I would have to have a desk/TV Tray to use it at my TV.


It's called your lap.  And if you have an optical mouse then the couch will work just fine Tongue
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Arkon
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« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2005, 04:53:41 PM »

Balancing a keyboard on my lap and reaching down to the surface of a couch to move the mouse around is not my idea of relaxing while playing games on my big ass TV.
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« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2005, 05:58:56 PM »

When I am playing a console game, I don't want to feel like I am sitting at my computer.  One of the reasons I bought a console was to GET AWAY from my computer while playing games.
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« Reply #52 on: September 07, 2005, 10:59:02 PM »

Quote from: "DiamondDecision"
Well, Microsoft had the 360 half in the grave with not putting a hard drive on each unit, and this pretty much ends it for me...


SONY OFFICIALLY revealed many details about upcoming Playstation 3 hardware. At the game developers conference, held at the Cafe Royal, where George Bernard Shaw and Oscar Wilde used to hobknob, the company decided to provide developers with some more information about the machinery.

We learned that despite having up to seven Bluetooth 2.0 compliant controllers, and six USB slots, and you will also be able to plug in a keyboard and a mouse. The company representative added that you will be able to play games such as Unreal Tournament 2007 with the keyboard and the mouse. This can mean the end of the auto aiming that you now have on Playstation 2, but I guess that developers will need to make the game fit the controller and keyboard and mouse.


...and this is coming from someone who currently owns an Xbox and has never owned a Playstation.  Micro$oft has been p0wned.


LINK?  I really don't believe much of anything Sony says with regards to the PS3 until I see it in the stores.  Good Lord, if my wife were a gamer, they'd say that it washes dishes.

Hmmm... come to think of it, that' not a bad idea.
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« Reply #53 on: September 08, 2005, 05:28:50 PM »

They should make a hybrid keyboard where the WASD key is replaced by an analog joystick.  

I don't see why anyone would view keyboard/mouse as a negative thing.  As someone already suggested, there are workarounds to make sure that online play is balanced.  

The benefits to being able to use KB/mouse are huge.  Besides the obvious advantage to a FPS; imagine being able to finally play games with complex controls on a console.  Every time such a game has been done on a console, it has always been dumbed down and even then having complex input like hold R+L+b.  We could have games like Mechwarrior 2 done on console without it being just an arcade game with big robots.  A game like Ace Combat could lean more towards Simulator.  Of course it all depends if developers decide to take advantage but at least the possibility is there.
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« Reply #54 on: September 09, 2005, 12:24:25 AM »

So a keyboard and a mouse, eh?  Cool!  Will this make it easier to mod a PS3 so you can do fun stuff to hack it like PSP?
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denoginizer
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« Reply #55 on: September 09, 2005, 03:40:22 AM »

Basically if you want to play a PS3 shooter online, you will be forced to use a KB and mouse.  Or else you will get dominated by those who do.  Does anyone dispute that?
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« Reply #56 on: September 09, 2005, 04:01:05 AM »

Quote from: "denoginizer"
Basically if you want to play a PS3 shooter online, you will be forced to use a KB and mouse.  Or else you will get dominated by those who do.  Does anyone dispute that?


Absolutely not. It is absolutely correct given the same relative skill level.
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« Reply #57 on: September 09, 2005, 04:32:51 AM »

Quote from: "denoginizer"
Basically if you want to play a PS3 shooter online, you will be forced to use a KB and mouse.  Or else you will get dominated by those who do.  Does anyone dispute that?

Unless the online game set up gives the option to only allow gamepads.  That seems like it would be easy to code.  Just have a checkbox that disables USB controllers in that particular game.
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« Reply #58 on: September 09, 2005, 04:48:26 AM »

Quote from: "warning"
Quote from: "denoginizer"
Basically if you want to play a PS3 shooter online, you will be forced to use a KB and mouse.  Or else you will get dominated by those who do.  Does anyone dispute that?

Unless the online game set up gives the option to only allow gamepads.  That seems like it would be easy to code.  Just have a checkbox that disables USB controllers in that particular game.

Yes, but you know that since that option is both easy and logical, it will be implemented in only a tiny fraction of games, for no real reason other than to frustrate gamers, provide an outlet for message board rants, and allow developers to try to patch the feature in after they somehow "discover" how much the fans wanted the feature.
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mytocles
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« Reply #59 on: September 09, 2005, 05:36:25 AM »

Quote
No one is going to be forced to use the controller. If they can't keep up, they just go buy a mouse and keyboard.
Quote
Everyone will have equal opportunity to get themselves a keyboard and mouse-I'm sure they could probably just rip them out of their PC while they play. If you choose to play with a controller when you could play with a mouse/keyboard then that's your problem.
Quote
The duel analog controllers work great for a lot of games, but they are clunky at best for good shooters. Why keep using a crappy system when something better is there?

Oh, here I go again... more rants in one week than in my entire lifetime!

The answer to the above quotes is:  BECAUSE I CAN'T USE A KEYBOARD!!! NOT FOR GAMING!!!  Sorry about shouting, but for crying out loud (and sorry for crying out loud, too) - I, personally,  have a muscle disorder, I can type - but it hurts, and I can't always type fast, or I can, but not for long.  AND my disorder also comes with white spots on the brain - like you get in old age, only I'm not quite that old yet.  I have difficulty switching from game to game on the console (why doesn't everyone use Halo-like control schemes, or allow programmable controls, or at least choice of inverted controls?), l

If I try really hard, I can relax while playing with a controller, and not smash buttons or sticks, and then I can play with relatively little pain, as long as I don't play too long.  With a keyboard, I have to hold my fingers in the proper position, suspended over the proper keys, and I can't do it for very long without incurring muscle cramps.

So, please, stop assuming that everyone has the same access to the keyboard and mouse.  Of course, the toggle idea will work fine, I'm not complaining about the fact that the PS3 will allow you to use a keyboard, just that not everyone has the option...

And I still can't wait for the XBox 360 to arrive, as obviously, the keyboard is not an issue for me.  biggrin
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« Reply #60 on: September 09, 2005, 06:13:09 AM »

Quote from: "Rage"
Quote from: "warning"
Quote from: "denoginizer"
Basically if you want to play a PS3 shooter online, you will be forced to use a KB and mouse.  Or else you will get dominated by those who do.  Does anyone dispute that?

Unless the online game set up gives the option to only allow gamepads.  That seems like it would be easy to code.  Just have a checkbox that disables USB controllers in that particular game.

Yes, but you know that since that option is both easy and logical, it will be implemented in only a tiny fraction of games, for no real reason other than to frustrate gamers, provide an outlet for message board rants, and allow developers to try to patch the feature in after they somehow "discover" how much the fans wanted the feature.


This is my point.  For the most part people want console gaming to be simple.  They do not want to filter controller types or worry about USB ports.  I am not referring to the relatively small percentage of console gamers who post on sites like this one.  Microsoft could allow keyboard control on the 360.  But  they choose not to for precisely this reason. Microsoft has more experience with the pitfalls of running a large online console gaming network than Sony does.  Sometimes more options are not necessarily better.
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #61 on: September 09, 2005, 03:34:54 PM »

This is a complete non-issue. The PS2 supports USB mouse and keyboard right now for FPS games and has for years. There was even a Sony branded mouse for the PS2 that was released in the beginning of 2001. The big problem is the only FPS that I remeber that supports keyboard/mouse control  is Red Faction 2.

The same thing's going to happen this gen. Unless Sony is now mandating support for KB/M,  there may be a couple of games that support it and that'll be it.
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« Reply #62 on: September 10, 2005, 03:43:05 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
Wow that's cool.  I might actually enjoy a console FPS now.

Add the ability to save anywhere and my head will asplode!


My thoughts exactly. I have never been able to stand FPS's on consoles due to the controls.
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FuronKamikaze
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« Reply #63 on: September 10, 2005, 11:12:52 PM »

What the F**K is wrong with Sony. Again online play will be imbalanced and blending the two control schemes in online play adds a whole new slew of crap with people getting pwned on online play because someone uses a keyboard/mouse instead of the standard controller. In my opinion Sony is throwing caution to the wind and will P1$$ off a whole $H1T load of avid Sony fans.
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« Reply #64 on: September 10, 2005, 11:33:47 PM »

Quote from: "FuronKamikaze"
What the F**K is wrong with Sony. Again online play will be imbalanced and blending the two control schemes in online play adds a whole new slew of crap with people getting pwned on online play because someone uses a keyboard/mouse instead of the standard controller. In my opinion Sony is throwing caution to the wind and will P1$$ off a whole $H1T load of avid Sony fans.


Sony is simply giving game developers options.  If they want to develop games that feature mouse/keyboard support, they can.  I already have a logitech keyboard for my PS2 and if a game was to require a mouse, I would either purchase another cheap one or use the one from my computer.
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« Reply #65 on: September 11, 2005, 12:57:13 AM »

Quote from: "FuronKamikaze"
What the F**K is wrong with Sony. Again online play will be imbalanced and blending the two control schemes in online play adds a whole new slew of crap with people getting pwned on online play because someone uses a keyboard/mouse instead of the standard controller. In my opinion Sony is throwing caution to the wind and will P1$$ off a whole $H1T load of avid Sony fans.



Too.many.symols.instead.of.letters!!!

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FuronKamikaze
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« Reply #66 on: September 11, 2005, 06:07:10 AM »

Yeah.... Um about that I wasn't having too much of a good day today but still its a good idea but I just hope Sony balances out the mouse/keyboard to level (as much as possible) with the standard controller. All in all this could work given enought thought.

By the way the whole symbols thing my cousin did (go figure) he's weird, but o.k.
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« Reply #67 on: September 11, 2005, 06:44:34 AM »

Quote from: "FuronKamikaze"
Yeah.... Um about that I wasn't having too much of a good day today but still its a good idea but I just hope Sony balances out the mouse/keyboard to level (as much as possible) with the standard controller. All in all this could work given enought thought.

By the way the whole symbols thing my cousin did (go figure) he's weird, but o.k.


Well...don't let your cousin post on your account-it will give some of the regulars the wrong impression about ya!!

Anyways, I don't think we know enough either way to panic about this controller thing yet, but I am curiou to see what happens.
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« Reply #68 on: September 11, 2005, 02:49:33 PM »

Quote from: "Arkon"
Balancing a keyboard on my lap and reaching down to the surface of a couch to move the mouse around is not my idea of relaxing while playing games on my big ass TV.


Quoted for truth
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