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Author Topic: Xbox 360 is dead! PS3 has keyboard/mouse support!!!!  (Read 8200 times)
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DiamondDecision
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« on: September 03, 2005, 01:41:08 PM »

Well, Microsoft had the 360 half in the grave with not putting a hard drive on each unit, and this pretty much ends it for me...


SONY OFFICIALLY revealed many details about upcoming Playstation 3 hardware. At the game developers conference, held at the Cafe Royal, where George Bernard Shaw and Oscar Wilde used to hobknob, the company decided to provide developers with some more information about the machinery.

We learned that despite having up to seven Bluetooth 2.0 compliant controllers, and six USB slots, and you will also be able to plug in a keyboard and a mouse. The company representative added that you will be able to play games such as Unreal Tournament 2007 with the keyboard and the mouse. This can mean the end of the auto aiming that you now have on Playstation 2, but I guess that developers will need to make the game fit the controller and keyboard and mouse.


...and this is coming from someone who currently owns an Xbox and has never owned a Playstation.  Micro$oft has been p0wned.
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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2005, 01:48:33 PM »

Quote from: "DiamondDecision"
We learned that despite having up to seven Bluetooth 2.0 compliant controllers, and six USB slots, and you will also be able to plug in a keyboard and a mouse. The company representative added that you will be able to play games such as Unreal Tournament 2007 with the keyboard and the mouse. This can mean the end of the auto aiming that you now have on Playstation 2, but I guess that developers will need to make the game fit the controller and keyboard and mouse.

This also utterly unbalances online play, as now you have two completely different (and one FAR superior to the other) control schemes.

Mouse aiming speed >>> controller aiming speed

This is not a good thing.
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adamsappel
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« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2005, 01:59:14 PM »

I have never been able to move with any ease using a keyboard. I think it is such a flawed way of controlling a character. Mouse aiming, I'll admit, is pretty damn accurate. I don't understand the angst over it making its way to console games, though. There's always someone better out there, whether it's through hardware or more time and effort put into the game. Those "gun" FPS controllers are supposedly an improvement since you never take your thumbs from the sticks, yet I've never heard any complaining about them. It seems like those who are most angry over k+m on consoles are also PC gamers, and likely to play that way anyway.
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« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2005, 02:17:02 PM »

Wow that's cool.  I might actually enjoy a console FPS now.

Add the ability to save anywhere and my head will asplode!
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Jumangi
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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2005, 02:45:41 PM »

There's no reason the 360 couldn't use a mouse and keyboard. I'll agree that this does unbalnce online play though.
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« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2005, 03:02:03 PM »

The 360 can use the keyboard (not sure about mouse) but supposedly that is only for MMOs at this point.
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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2005, 03:02:50 PM »

Quote from: "Jumangi"
There's no reason the 360 couldn't use a mouse and keyboard. I'll agree that this does unbalnce online play though.


One of the things I like about console FPS's is knowing that the other people are using the same speed hardware and same controller as I am.  I agree with those above who say it severly unballances online play.  I don't see this as a good thing at all.  To each his own I guess.
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DiamondDecision
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2005, 03:12:46 PM »

No one is going to be forced to use the controller.  If they can't keep up, they just go buy a mouse and keyboard.

Quote from: "denoginizer"
Quote from: "Jumangi"
There's no reason the 360 couldn't use a mouse and keyboard. I'll agree that this does unbalnce online play though.


One of the things I like about console FPS's is knowing that the other people are using the same speed hardware and same controller as I am.  I agree with those above who say it severly unballances online play.  I don't see this as a good thing at all.  To each his own I guess.
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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2005, 03:49:21 PM »

Why doesn't Sony then just go ahead and make a new friggin desktop computer instead of a console?  The PS3 desktop computer.  Stupid.  And I don't want the X360 using a keyboard and a mouse either.

Sorry, but blending desktop computers and consoles is not for me.  Keep them separate.  That is what makes it so damn interesting.  If you want mouse & keyboard then play on your computer.  That's my opinion.

 :wink:
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2005, 04:09:11 PM »

Quote from: "Starshifter"
Why doesn't Sony then just go ahead and make a new friggin desktop computer instead of a console?  The PS3 desktop computer.  Stupid.  And I don't want the X360 using a keyboard and a mouse either.

Sorry, but blending desktop computers and consoles is not for me.  Keep them separate.  That is what makes it so damn interesting.  If you want mouse & keyboard then play on your computer.  That's my opinion.

 :wink:


Ahh, but the trends both Microsoft and Sony are following is just that - they're adding more and more features to their consoles thereby making them less and less focused on gaming, and more and more focused on being the hub of entertainment for the living room. Which, I think, is a bad move. Take the focus away from gaming, and you're left with a device that does a whole lotta things pretty well, versus a dedicated console gaming machine that rules all.
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2005, 04:12:50 PM »

I'm with adamsappel.

I HATE mouse and keyboard!! Mostly the keyboard part.
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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2005, 05:14:54 PM »

I would be totally for this if someone made a regular mouse, but a special keyboard that isnt a keyboard that is designed for the actual console.  It will have all the same buttons as the console, but it can be held in one hand (or put down on a hard surface), but the mouse can still be controlled for aiming.  So you get a thumbstick for analog movement (which I think anyone will agree is superior to WASD), all the buttons on keyboard esque thing, and some buttons on the mouse (keep in mind the mouse can have a scroll thingy, the push in of the scroll thingy, and a button on each side of the mouse).  Now THAT is efficiency.  Too bad I dont think anyone is going to make something like that though... The ULTIMATE gaming controller.
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DiamondDecision
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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2005, 05:23:51 PM »

I read this too Ron, and once again, the 360 is stumbling with a poor decision.  I want the freedom of using a mouse or keyboard whenever *I* want.

Microsoft is ignoring me and Sony is reading my mind

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
The 360 can use the keyboard (not sure about mouse) but supposedly that is only for MMOs at this point.
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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2005, 05:52:05 PM »

Quote
This also utterly unbalances online play, as now you have two completely different (and one FAR superior to the other) control schemes.

Mouse aiming speed >>> controller aiming speed

This is not a good thing.


Agree 110%.

Not to mention the fact that unless you set your console up on a desk like a PC, using a mouse and keyboard is very awkward.  Have you ever tried using a mouse and keyboard for gaming while sitting on the living room couch? It's not a particularly rewarding experience.  If you want a PC gaming experience, just play the stupid PC.

If MS is "ignoring" you (like it's some kind of personal grudge...  :roll: ) , fine. Why not ignore them as well?  Problem solved.
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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2005, 05:53:51 PM »

I think its a good move, because when you install a OS on your PS3, it will be just like using your computer, but on your TV.

As for the gaming side of it, I dont play PC games and I'm not very good with a mouse and keyboard, gaming wise. I'am also dissappointed that they are "taking" away from the actual gaming, and adding in DVD players and crap like that, I already own 3. I have been a Playstation user since PS1, I got my PS1 like 2months after launch, and I want to stick with Sony to PS3, but Nintendo maybe my choice, since they are all about the games, and not trying to build the next Computer/Video Games/DVD/CD/HUB and all this crap. I want games!

But, maybe they will have options in the games to have opponents that only play with a controller?

I should work for these guys biggrin
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« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2005, 05:57:53 PM »

Quote from: "Laner"
Not to mention the fact that unless you set your console up on a desk like a PC, using a mouse and keyboard is very awkward.

That's exactly what I plan to do.  I'm going to run the Xbox 360 or PS3 into my LCD monitor at my desk.

The TV usually belongs to my wife most evenings.
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« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2005, 06:53:29 PM »

Man, PS3 is sounding better and better.  This badboy may eventually replace all my console's AND computer.

Oh and mouse+keyboard rules (just got an AWSD shirt, don't ask why).
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« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2005, 07:01:04 PM »

Quote from: "DiamondDecision"
No one is going to be forced to use the controller.  If they can't keep up, they just go buy a mouse and keyboard.


People who use mouse/keyboard will dominate those who use gamepads.  I can already envision games being set up as "keyboard only" or "gamepad only."  I think Micro$oft is making a decision not to support keyboard/mouse for fps's just like they did on the original Xbox.  I like playing Halo 2 knowing that all of the guys on the server are using the same controller as I am.  A closed environment with everyone using the same hardware is what I like best about online gaming on consoles.  Micro$oft has recognized that.  It seems that Sony still hasn't.  Xbox live is already light years ahead of any online gaming system Sony will have for PS3.  Live for the 360 will widen that gap even more.  In my opinion of course.  biggrin
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« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2005, 07:36:49 PM »

Would it be possible for the game to recognize the input device and be able to set those parameters in the server?  For example, a server could mandate a game is gamepads only or mouse/keyboard only, or a mix?
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« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2005, 07:57:39 PM »

Quote from: "Eno"
So you get a thumbstick for analog movement (which I think anyone will agree is superior to WASD)

i strongly disagree...
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« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2005, 08:45:13 PM »

There are a handful of PS2 titles that already allow you to use a USB keyboard and mouse to play them.  I think Unreal Tournament and Red Faction 2 among them.

I hated hearing the 360 would lock them out ("design decision") but imagine this could easily be changed if it is that popular.  Nice to hear Sony will continue to support keyboard and mouse.  Let's just hope they allow any USB keyboard/mouse and not just official Sony ones.
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« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2005, 10:44:38 PM »

Good mouse/keyboard support definitely puts me in the PS3 camp now, as I only plan on getting one next-gen console.  Great decision by Sony.
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« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2005, 11:13:27 PM »

What if a controller had a track ball for the right thumb stick? It'd be easily held, have the left thumb stick for movement, the tighter aiming of a trackball (which isn't as good as an outright mouse, but better than another anaolgue stick), and standard usage through out the online roster.

*cough* Revolution *cough cough*

Seriously though, I wonder if a trackball for the right thumb would be an advantage, if it would improve control and gameplay.
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« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2005, 11:36:15 PM »

How exactly will it unbalance online play?  Everyone will have equal opportunity to get themselves a keyboard and mouse-I'm sure they could probably just rip them out of their PC while they play.  If you choose to play with a controller when you could play with a mouse/keyboard then that's your problem.

The only possible unbalancing problems I could see is if Xbox owners and PS3 oweners could play on the same server.

I think this is great news.  For one thing rather than having to upgrade my computer every time a new FPS is released, I can just play it on the console instead.  I've always wanted this but the terrible controllers always made it not worth it.

Another big winner will be games like RPG maker where you're doing a lot of typing.
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« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2005, 11:51:05 PM »

Quote from: "disarm"
Quote from: "Eno"
So you get a thumbstick for analog movement (which I think anyone will agree is superior to WASD)

i strongly disagree...

  You cant adjust your speed with keys, with an analog stick you can adjust how fast you walk and run.  I personally just dont see the point to using keys, when you would have to hold down a button to run faster or slower.
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DiamondDecision
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« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2005, 11:52:42 PM »

Amen!  Well said. My points exactly.

Quote from: "Canuck"
How exactly will it unbalance online play?  Everyone will have equal opportunity to get themselves a keyboard and mouse-I'm sure they could probably just rip them out of their PC while they play.  If you choose to play with a controller when you could play with a mouse/keyboard then that's your problem.

The only possible unbalancing problems I could see is if Xbox owners and PS3 oweners could play on the same server.

I think this is great news.  For one thing rather than having to upgrade my computer every time a new FPS is released, I can just play it on the console instead.  I've always wanted this but the terrible controllers always made it not worth it.

Another big winner will be games like RPG maker where you're doing a lot of typing.
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« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2005, 12:03:34 AM »

the day i want to have friends come over, and sit in my living room bedroom or game room with a keyboard and mouse on their laps is the day i will care about this

and theres no way in hell im goin to have trashy tv dinner trays to play a game - if i wanted to play at a desktop, id probably, well, play at my desktop - computer
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« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2005, 12:10:38 AM »

I think it's a great idea by Sony, only problem is I play console games on the tv room floor, or sitting on the couch, so a keyboard/mouse setup isn't too handy for me.  The only reason I buy FPSs for the PC though is because of the keyboard/mouse control.  I hate playing FPSs with dual analog controllers.  The minute I set up a table or desk in the tv room to play games, my wife will throw the ps3 out the window.
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« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2005, 02:44:56 AM »

Quote from: "Canuck"
How exactly will it unbalance online play?  Everyone will have equal opportunity to get themselves a keyboard and mouse-I'm sure they could probably just rip them out of their PC while they play.  If you choose to play with a controller when you could play with a mouse/keyboard then that's your problem.

The only possible unbalancing problems I could see is if Xbox owners and PS3 oweners could play on the same server.

I think this is great news.  For one thing rather than having to upgrade my computer every time a new FPS is released, I can just play it on the console instead.  I've always wanted this but the terrible controllers always made it not worth it.

Another big winner will be games like RPG maker where you're doing a lot of typing.


If you want to be able to compete you will have to use a KB/Mouse combo.  I do not play console games at my desk.  Nor do I want to.  But I also do not want to be a sitting duck trying to play against people who have an advantage over me just because of the hardware they are using.  People spend $500 on video cards for their PCs for that.  Console gaming is about equal hardware and simplicity.  Most people who play online shooters on consoles do not want to bother messing around with a keyboard and mouse in their living room.  But they also don't want to be at a disadvantage because of it.  Microsoft has taken all of that out of the equation.  I agree with them.  We'll see if they are right.
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« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2005, 03:02:12 AM »

Stay tuned for Sony requiring you to buy their own PS3 keyboard ($59) and mouse ($49) for full functionality.
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« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2005, 03:47:48 AM »

Just so I can be clear about this...

We will have the availability of a more precise control option with faster aiming speed for first-person shooter games.  And we're complaining about this?

Because more precision and faster aiming speeds are a bad thing?
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« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2005, 06:03:02 AM »

I love PC shooters with the M and KB, I also love the console shooters with a controller... If they do that, it will be VERY uneven playing field. I don`t wanna play baseball with a football, now do I? :wink:
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« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2005, 06:08:33 AM »

I would have better at Halo 2 tonight with a mouse/kb combo.  Then again, those kids were doing just fine with the controller so maybe not much better...
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« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2005, 02:55:04 PM »

Quote from: "Eno"
Quote from: "disarm"
Quote from: "Eno"
So you get a thumbstick for analog movement (which I think anyone will agree is superior to WASD)

i strongly disagree...

  You cant adjust your speed with keys, with an analog stick you can adjust how fast you walk and run.  I personally just dont see the point to using keys, when you would have to hold down a button to run faster or slower.


In a game like Splinter Cell the anlog stick is nice but people don't care about speed in a run and gun shooter. Your moving(fast) or your not.
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« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2005, 03:01:59 PM »

Quote from: "disarm"
Quote from: "Eno"
So you get a thumbstick for analog movement (which I think anyone will agree is superior to WASD)

i strongly disagree...


And you're entitled to it, even if you're dead wrong.

WSAD is horrid for movement. Look at Splinter Cell and what they had to do to introduce creeping vs walking vs running. The mouse wheel?? Lets not even get into the whole only 8 actual directions to move. N-NW-W-SW-S-SE-E-NE is lame. On top of that, your keyboard traditionally would only allow so many keystrokes at the same time, so you're holding SHIFT to crouch, A and W to walk forward/left, and then hitting G to throw a grenade and it doesn't read the G cuz you've already got 3 keys held down. The last thing is the staggered keys.. they aren't sitting in a natural forward/back/left/right position, so it requires some training.

The mouse is precision (as we've been trained to it). That's not to say that something better can't come out though, and although the keyboard is nice if you have a bunch of bound keys; the use of character movement is so blindingly painful that most computer games have scared off the mainstream based on controls.

You like it because you're used to it. You like it because you've not trained yourself. Any. Other. Way. I'm left-handed; to work with a right-hand mouse I had to retrain myself when they came out with trackball controllers that were right-hand-only. Now I game with my right hand on a mouse. Is it better than left? No. I also had to train my left hand for WSAD (I used to game with my left hand on the mouse, and my right hand on the cursor keys or the numpad). Try using your left hand on the "smaller" cursor keys (with a true N/S E/W config)instead of WSAD... not so easy to do.

Keyboards are too limited in their input scheme. I'm really hoping the Revolution changes the input to something radically different. I want innovative, intuitive controls. Dual Analogs make more sense although they're less precise. Lets see what the big N brings to the table.

Until then, I'll enjoy my mouse/keyboard config on PC, and controller on my exbox.
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« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2005, 03:04:03 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
Just so I can be clear about this...

We will have the availability of a more precise control option with faster aiming speed for first-person shooter games.  And we're complaining about this?

Because more precision and faster aiming speeds are a bad thing?


No. The mouse is awesome. It's just too bad Sony isn't stepping up to the plate to design another interface for the other hand that better complements the needs for motion than a Keyboard.

Something like the gaming claw or the strategic commander with tweaks to ensure they don't suck ass.
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« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2005, 07:15:32 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
Just so I can be clear about this...

We will have the availability of a more precise control option with faster aiming speed for first-person shooter games.  And we're complaining about this?

Because more precision and faster aiming speeds are a bad thing?


Werd. Would love to see this option on the 360 too-but its not much of a dealbreaker for me either way.
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« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2005, 11:22:22 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
Just so I can be clear about this...

We will have the availability of a more precise control option with faster aiming speed for first-person shooter games.  And we're complaining about this?

Because more precision and faster aiming speeds are a bad thing?

More precision and faster aiming speeds are a good thing, don't get me wrong. Unfortunately, when it comes to online play, you will be slaughtered by the ones who have this control scheme verses a standard dual-analog controller. That's my issue here.

That's why the gaming consoles (in the past, anyway) were great for online games. You were all on equal ground as far as controller and CPU speed went. Anybody remember the original Quake (I think it was the original), where you could rocket jump higher the faster the CPU you had (and the more FPS you got in general)? To the pros, that's one heck of an advantage.
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« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2005, 12:36:13 AM »

Quote from: "Destructor"
...rocket jump...


Man, that was the stupidest thing ever... "My rockets don't hurt me as much cuz I'm the one firing them!" biggrin
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« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2005, 12:49:43 AM »

Quote from: "Purge"
Quote from: "Destructor"
...rocket jump...

Man, that was the stupidest thing ever... "My rockets don't hurt me as much cuz I'm the one firing them!" biggrin

Yeah, I never understood that either. But my point still stands. smile
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