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Author Topic: XBOX 360 Backwards compatible (NOT)  (Read 6134 times)
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Mystic95Z
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« on: May 19, 2005, 07:05:02 PM »

So it's not really going to be backwards compatible....

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=8996
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Devil
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« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2005, 07:08:29 PM »

Oh, well...IN!
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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2005, 07:15:21 PM »

Isn't the PS3 just as if not more different in architecture from the PS2 than the X-Box 360 is from the first X-Box? Why is it Sony can make their system truly backwards compatible but MS can not?  :?:
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« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2005, 07:16:44 PM »

Quote from: "Ralph-Wiggum"
Isn't the PS3 more different in architecture from the PS2 than the X-Box 360 is from the first X-Box? Why is it Sony can make their system truly backwards compatible but MS can not?  :?:


I don't know what the PS3 solution is, but with PS2 they actually included the PS1 hardware in its design as the soundchip or something like that.
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Crawley
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« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2005, 07:36:50 PM »

It would have been nice but I wouldn't have been tossing my X-Box even if it was backwards compatible. Whenever I do get around to purchasing a 360 (I'm no longer an early adopter) likely the XBox (1) will sit on the shelf next to it for a few months, the games will dry up as they all move to the 360, then I'll pack it away and use the 360 exclusively.

The PS3 backwards compatibility is nice but still a bit gimmicky. Even when I had the PS2 I rarely bothered to play the PS1 games on it other than to breifly check out how they looked.

The sad part is if they release Xbox classics in the 360 format at some later date I'd probably purchase it that way even if I have them.   :oops:

So, for me anways, this isn't that big of a deal.
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zinckiwi
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« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2005, 07:37:08 PM »

Okay, that blows... some of us don't have an entire video wall in which to stick half a dozen components  :/ Was counting on backwards compatibility more for space issues than anything, especially since neither the 360 or PS3 seems overly stackable.
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Bullwinkle
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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2005, 07:38:52 PM »

Sadly, for me, it is.  

There will be little way to justify a 360 purchase if I can't convince my wife that it's an upgrade, not "yet another damn game machine."
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Rob_Merritt
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« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2005, 07:40:01 PM »

I don't think I will be buying as many Xbox games anymore since they will not last past this generation.
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Fellow
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« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2005, 07:58:02 PM »

Er, yeah, I'm not exactly sure how that can be classified as "backwards compatibility" at all, if we have to re-buy recompiled games so as to play them on X360?

Bit of a pisser that. It won't prevent me from getting the console, but it does put a damper on the first rush.
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Rob_Merritt
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2005, 07:59:22 PM »

Wonder if new games will come ready for Xbox and Xbox 360 out of the box?
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Bob
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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2005, 08:23:50 PM »

Quote
I don't know what the PS3 solution is, but with PS2 they actually included the PS1 hardware in its design as the soundchip or something like that.

I believe it was the I/O controller.  Just FYI.
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Calvin
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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2005, 08:28:04 PM »

Hmm, how much do I not care. I have an XBox. Its a bit of a pain keeping the black monstrosity around, so I will just put the 360 on top of it and play the 10 or 12 old games I will keep when they strike my fancy! Wheeeeeee, problem solved, boy was THAT complicated.

I do have to give it up to Sony though-as much as I am not bothered by this, I loved the backwards compatibility in the PS2, and I think its a shame if nothing else that MS can't get it done.
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Enigma
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« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2005, 08:46:33 PM »

Why dont they just put a chip on the 360 that can "recompile" the game and then load it to the hard drive?  Alternatively, they could have a CD verification system through live or snail mail that would allow you to download the recompiled version of the game (or get a new DVD in the mail).  

Either way, it sounds like MS isn't putting much effort into the idea.  If they really wanted to support Xbox games, I'm sure they could.  I think it will end up hurting their sales....especially if Sony and Nintendo have some nice ads slamming MS for not being compatible with Xbox...and telling customers that if they just wait a few months they can have a nice shiny PS3 that can play ALL of their games!

If I was a 12 year old kid...I would want to be able play all of my games on my current system.....and my parents would appreciate that also......one less piece of hardware on the living room floor --  and folks, lets face it ...the target market seems to be 12 year old boys and their parents.
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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2005, 08:49:32 PM »

My last remaining hope: maybe you'll be able to pop in the disc and download it off the freebie xbox live service.  This way they can still make you have the disc to get the game starting.

I'm late to the X-Box scene so there are a lot of cheap older games that I still want to play.  I'm not going to deal with multiple systems so I supposed I'll just hold off for a few years until I've gone through my backlog and the price has dropped massively.

Color me disappointed.
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Arkon
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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2005, 08:54:40 PM »

I personally don't care about backwards compatability.  I know for some people it is a big issue... I had a ton of PS1 games, PS2 came out and yay I can still play them all, but in the end I never did, I only played PS2 games.  While there are one or two XB games I would like to hang on to and keep playing, if I can't, so be it I just keep my ole XBOX hooked up for when I get a hankerin.  My guess is that MS will not require you to purchase a new version of the game, but will have some sort of download over live with a recompiled exe that requires the original disk in the system.
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weleavefossils
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« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2005, 09:27:45 PM »

I would say i have re-played more of my ps1 games then ps2 games that I have.  But besides that..its nice to know if my ps2 dies tragically from overplay, i can get a ps3 to replace it and a new system as a bonus.  
You can also look at it this way..4 years later the new xbox 3 comes out..what are you going to do then?  have 3 systems laid out across your room just the play the selected games every now and them?
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ravenvii
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« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2005, 09:39:21 PM »

Oh well, I was hoping the 360 would have backwards compatibility so I could play the XBox games I missed (since I skipped out the XBox this round). Looks like I'll just skip out the 360 the next round and get the same Sony/Nintendo combo I got this round and the last round.

Eh, there aren't many games I'm interested in for the XBox... Halo is about it, really.
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« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2005, 09:42:10 PM »

Quote from: "weleavefossils"
I would say i have re-played more of my ps1 games then ps2 games that I have.  But besides that..its nice to know if my ps2 dies tragically from overplay, i can get a ps3 to replace it and a new system as a bonus.  
You can also look at it this way..4 years later the new xbox 3 comes out..what are you going to do then?  have 3 systems laid out across your room just the play the selected games every now and them?


Nope I'm going to wait 6 months to a year before buying it and when I do I won't look back to the games on the old system. Some of us just play differently I guess, I rarely if ever go back to a game I've already played to completion (or satisfaction)... hell, for the most part once it comes out it rarely goes back in even if I hardly scratched the surface. Too freakin many games to play!
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« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2005, 09:56:11 PM »

Boo!  Hiss!  Now I definitely won't be getting an Xbox 360 until some massive price drops occur, especially considering that the PS3 will be equal in power.
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« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2005, 10:14:57 PM »

Quote from: "Raven VII"
Oh well, I was hoping the 360 would have backwards compatibility so I could play the XBox games I missed (since I skipped out the XBox this round). Looks like I'll just skip out the 360 the next round and get the same Sony/Nintendo combo I got this round and the last round.


likewise (one more instance of microsoft's ever-expanding insistence that you do things their way, because... they say so?)...
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« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2005, 11:17:23 PM »

oh noeezzz, no backward compatibility?  well shucks, I guess I'll just have to hold onto the X-Box I already own, and maybe I'll buy another before they stop making them.  No big deal there.
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corruptrelic
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« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2005, 11:36:57 PM »

I think it's a shame but I kind of figured Microsoft woudn't give us backwards compatiblity all along so a while back I sold my xbox and got a ps2 instead.
Now I can better justify paying $50 for a game when I know it will last next generation.
Not all of us can afford all these new consoles without selling our old one first, so we have to sell the old one to get the new one. It's nice to keep some of your classics (like Halo) and be able to play them on the new console while building up the new console's library.
I never had a playstation 1 (had a dreamcast at that time) so no I never used the playstation 2's backwards compatilbity (well except for one game that I ended up buying) but come next generation, I am definitely going to be playing my ps2 games on the ps3 since I'll be selling the ps2 and the crappy games along with it to help pay for the next console.

Backwards compatiblity is a big thing to me, and that's why I went with Sony and not Microsoft.
Hell, even Nintendo are making their next console backwards compatible with the Gamecube, not to mention all the gameboys are always backwards compatible.
It sucks having to give up a game library because your new machine can't play it.
Imagine everytime you got a new computer and the games you were already playing on it are no longer compatible with the new machine and you had to buy new games all over again.
But hey you can just stack them right next to eachother and then play them both right?
That doesn't really make much sense to me but if you have the money and space for two of basically the same consoles, then go for it.. unfortunately it's not something we can all do though and as such, the lack of backwards compatiblity should (hopefully) lose quite a few sales to Microsoft this generation so that by the time the next xbox comes out, they'll learn from their mistakes.
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« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2005, 11:44:08 PM »

I think it's mainly because the xbox 360 is using a different video card than the xbox itself.  I could care less about backwards compatability.  I  never replay old games, and why would I want to when there's better looking games to be played..

I think it was obvious that it wasn't going to be backwards compatable, since they would never comment on it.
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Devil
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« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2005, 12:18:52 AM »

Quote

Oh well, I was hoping the 360 would have backwards compatibility so I could play the XBox games I missed (since I skipped out the XBox this round). Looks like I'll just skip out the 360 the next round and get the same Sony/Nintendo combo I got this round and the last round.

likewise (one more instance of microsoft's ever-expanding insistence that you do things their way, because... they say so?)...


I don't get this and really don't feel like defending MS all the time because I couldn't care less, but...huh?

MS is insisting you do things their way!?!?
GameCube had no online, no high def, no digital audio, no hard drive, no DVD, yet people are running back to Nintendo with open arms because you'll be given the honor buying the original Mario Kart to go right next to your GC Mario Kart and, without a doubt, the Revolution Mario Kart?

You guys willing to pay for Donkey Kong again (they charged $20 for the GBA re-release) but are dead set against another console next to your TV?

I understand with the PS3 - No break in the line. You have a PS1 game, just pop it into your PS3 and have at it.
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« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2005, 12:23:31 AM »

file this under "had my fingers crossed but really was expectin it all along"
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Calvin
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« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2005, 12:31:18 AM »

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2292

Quote
Ok, let’s stop this right now. There is some serious wrong information floating around, so I need to clear this up. I grabbed my favorite PR dudes, and they are saying what I was telling a few of you in email:

“We’re not sure where this came from, and it's incorrect. At launch, Xbox 360 will be backward compatible with the top Xbox games. Our goal is to have every Xbox game work on Xbox 360. You will NOT need to purchase a new ‘version’ — your original games will work on Xbox 360.”

Case closed.


Also note that Engadget has up an interview with Steve Ballmer and Robbie Bach that confirm the emulation route for backwards compatibility.


have we reacted too soon?
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« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2005, 12:50:42 AM »

I've been quiet about it, but Ron heard much the same thing as Rage said above.  I'm not sure why they're keeping it so "hush-hush".  Once again, a PR person could be very wrong in this situation, so who really knows...I'm not sure who from Microsoft Ron heard it from.
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Devil
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« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2005, 01:05:39 AM »

Now what?
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« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2005, 02:02:38 AM »

I'm still a little disappointed with the updated news.  For two reasons:

1)  I have an older Xbox with a Thompson drive and guess what?  Its dying on me.   Sitting it next to or on top of the 360 won't be an option because at the rate its going it will be all but unplayable by that time.  I hate the thought that I have to pay $100 to get it fixed from MS or buy a new one for $150.  I was really hoping for full BC so I could just move on the 360 without worrying.  

2)  This whole "top games" thing?  What are top games?  Does Psychonauts count?  Great game but its sold abysmally.  How about all of those other great but sadly overlooked games like Oddworld Stranger or Beyond Good and Evil?  Yeah no doubt Halo and Halo 2 will work but I want my entire collection to work.
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ravenvii
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« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2005, 06:01:13 AM »

I suspect it's not "true" backwards compatibility... It's just like this: You insert a disc of a "supported" game, like Halo, and the console downloads a recompiled version of the Halo code off the 'net, probably (likely) vis XBox Live, and uses the data off the DVD, and presto you can play Halo. They'll only recompile a few games, hence this "backwards compatibility for only top games" thing.

Just my guess.
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AgtFox
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« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2005, 11:46:59 AM »

I guess to re-state, Ron heard that ALL Xbox games will be playable on the Xbox 360...but I would guess the emulator is not finished as of yet.  I don't think any re-compiling or downloading of anything via Live will be needed in order to play Xbox games on 360.

I'm guessing they are keeping quiet in case the emulator doesn't work out and they aren't made out to be liars.  Supposedly final dev kits will be shipped out in July of this year...currently all Xbox 360 games are running off a dual G5 system with the current generation of video cards (Radeon X850).

I guess we'll find out for sure around the time they set price and date probably.
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« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2005, 01:12:30 PM »

I guess I'm still in the 'sticky bit' side over the backwards compatability. If it doesn't play xbox games out of the box, I really can't justify picking the system up anytime near launch.

This really has turned out to be a PR nightmare for MS. It does, no, now it doesn't, WAIT, yes it does... probably.

A LOT of people want a definitive answer on backwards compatability. And if its not forthcoming, the 360 launch will loose some steam. I feel that a lot of people (and I may be talking mainstream sales, but hardcore gamers aren't going to be the ones making up the lion's share of sales) are looking at Halo3 as the killer app for the 360 ... and it won't be there at launch. And if the backward comp isn't there, or if it's piecemeal, this hurts the 360 launch that much more. IMO, if MS is going to gain market share against Sony, they need momentum going in, to generate positive buzz and sales from those that are on the fence. They have one holiday season of sales without direct competition (unless Sony rushes the PS3); they have to make it count.

If there isn't verified backward compatability, or if the list on what titles run is iffy, I'll wait until that information is available until making a purchase.... and if that puts us closer to the PS3 launch date, well......
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« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2005, 01:21:26 PM »

Quote from: "naednek"
I think it's mainly because the xbox 360 is using a different video card than the xbox itself.

I would think the completely different CPU architecture would pose much more of a problem
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« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2005, 03:21:07 PM »

http://www.qbrundage.com/michaelb/pubs/essays/xbox360.html
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« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2005, 03:59:32 PM »

Straight from the horses mouth - it is completely and entirely 100% backwards compatable.
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« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2005, 05:11:00 PM »

Eeexcellent.
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« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2005, 05:13:01 PM »

Quote from: "Devil"
Quote

Oh well, I was hoping the 360 would have backwards compatibility so I could play the XBox games I missed (since I skipped out the XBox this round). Looks like I'll just skip out the 360 the next round and get the same Sony/Nintendo combo I got this round and the last round.

likewise (one more instance of microsoft's ever-expanding insistence that you do things their way, because... they say so?)...


I don't get this and really don't feel like defending MS all the time because I couldn't care less, but...huh?

MS is insisting you do things their way!?!?
GameCube had no online, no high def, no digital audio, no hard drive, no DVD, yet people are running back to Nintendo with open arms because you'll be given the honor buying the original Mario Kart to go right next to your GC Mario Kart and, without a doubt, the Revolution Mario Kart?

You guys willing to pay for Donkey Kong again (they charged $20 for the GBA re-release) but are dead set against another console next to your TV?

I understand with the PS3 - No break in the line. You have a PS1 game, just pop it into your PS3 and have at it.


you've kinda ended up basically agreeing with me (tho it's all irrelevant at this point if the most recent posts are true): if you're out for market share, which feature model are you going to emulate - the also-ran, nintendo/non-compatible model (tho even they've finally gone compatible this round), or the #1 sony/compatible model?...

if microsoft's serious about taking on sony (& not just nintendo), they need to see & absorb what sony's done that nintendo hasn't & go from there. &, if nothing out there, sales-wise, indicates that backward-compatibility is a negative (quite the opposite, obviously), & they were to simply ignore that, i'm sorry, but it's hard not to see a certain amount of self-defeating arrogance there...
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« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2005, 05:19:29 PM »

So they're all backwards compatible...Next...
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« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2005, 06:59:00 PM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
Straight from the horses mouth - it is completely and entirely 100% backwards compatable.



How does that jibe with the recent Steve Balmer interview where he said the "goal" was 100% backwards compatibility, which is an important distinction?  He said that their hope is that by working through the emulation on a few key titles, that the emulation will in turn work for tens or hundreds of other titles and ultimately they hope to have BC on all games.  This is important, in my mind, because it sounds like to me like 100%, or even 80%, BC could take quite some time to achieve.
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« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2005, 01:34:10 AM »

Interesting but perhaps outdated news.  The new EGM has an article on the Xbox 360.  They definitively state the 360 won't be backwards compatible.  I wonder who told them that?
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