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Author Topic: XB360: Living up to it's spec's?  (Read 833 times)
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Sarkus
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« on: May 23, 2006, 05:56:32 PM »

I was thinking about this last night, and while I realize that we've only seen first gen games so far, the 360 is not as powerfull as I expected.

A system with a triple core processor should have no problem with Oblivion, and yet it does.  Sure, it has less RAM, but with no OS that shouldn't be a factor.  I just don't get it.

Anyone else agree, or are we just going to have to wait longer for it's potential to be realized?
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« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2006, 06:00:10 PM »

OS stands for operating system. The Xbox had a bare OS that was a loader and interfaced with the hardware, but it wasn't uniform (ie you would be disconnected from live for each game you go to load).

The 360 DOES have an OS, and it's a NOS as well (the N is for network). I expect that there will be OS improvements passed down via patches, but ultimately I think it comes down to the fact that games right now aren't fully utilizing multi-core processing.
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Arkon
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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2006, 06:00:21 PM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"
I was thinking about this last night, and while I realize that we've only seen first gen games so far, the 360 is not as powerfull as I expected.

A system with a triple core processor should have no problem with Oblivion, and yet it does.  Sure, it has less RAM, but with no OS that shouldn't be a factor.  I just don't get it.

Anyone else agree, or are we just going to have to wait longer for it's potential to be realized?


It is fairly new tech.  Dev kits were very late in arriving.  I think it is just a factor of learning how to optimize for the system.  Look at the PS2, it wasn't until recently that games really started to take full advantage of the system.  

Just looking at some of the stuff from E3 there is a big step up in the 2nd gen games over the 1st gen.
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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2006, 06:37:02 PM »

Exactly, Arkon. The games that will start hitting this fall and during the holiday season are the second generation of 360 titles and THAT'S when we'll start seeing the Next-Gen Difference(tm). Some of the titles on display at E3 looked amazing.

Now let's see how they play. slywink
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Farscry
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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2006, 07:05:22 PM »

And let's be fair; both Morrowind and Oblivion have/had fairly heavy performance issues even running on (what was at the time) fairly higher-end systems.

As with any of the previous console generations, we'll see games starting to really take advantage of the newer tech in the 2nd and 3rd year of the system.
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kathode
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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2006, 07:09:28 PM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"
the 360 is not as powerfull as I expected.

A system with a triple core processor should have no problem with Oblivion, and yet it does.  Sure, it has less RAM, but with no OS that shouldn't be a factor.  I just don't get it.


What are you basing your assessment on?  What standard are you comparing it to?  When you compare something to a completely unqualified standard then it's likely to fail that comparison.
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Thin_J
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2006, 07:45:18 PM »

Yeah I have to throw my hat in the pile with all of the others who say that it's no fault of the tech in the system really, just that developers haven't had nearly enough time yet to really figure out how to tap into everything the system has to offer.
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Ridah
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« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2006, 08:38:48 PM »

Remember when the PS2 first came out? I couldn't help but laugh at it through its first year because Dreamcast games like Shenmue and Skies of Arcadia looked better than anything it had to offer. The first year for any console is always the training and learning year for developers, its the second generation that really begins to tap into the console's power, and the third and fourth generation that pushes it to its max.

Games like Halo 3, Mass Effect, and Bio Shock will show off what the 360 can do. Really the smartest way to go about it with any new console (with the exception of Nintendo and previously Sega as well) is to skip the first year. Why? Because for the most part there are no must-own titles, or at least not many of them, that first year. Also, the first few versions of the hardware are buggy as hell.
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Sarkus
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« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2006, 12:05:55 AM »

Quote from: "kathode"
Quote from: "Sarkus"
the 360 is not as powerfull as I expected.

A system with a triple core processor should have no problem with Oblivion, and yet it does.  Sure, it has less RAM, but with no OS that shouldn't be a factor.  I just don't get it.


What are you basing your assessment on?  What standard are you comparing it to?  When you compare something to a completely unqualified standard then it's likely to fail that comparison.


I'm basing it on the fact that none of the games so far use the triple core processor to any advantage.  Oblivion was supposed to use them, but I don't see where it actually has.  I have Oblivion on the 360 and yet my friend who has a single core processor running at about 3.8Ghz equivalent, 1 GB RAM, and a 256MB video card gets better performance at a higher resolution.  I personally expected more from the hardware.  

I'm not regretting that I bought a 360, but it should be technically superior to a two year old PC and so far it's not.
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2006, 12:14:44 AM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"
Quote from: "kathode"
Quote from: "Sarkus"
the 360 is not as powerfull as I expected.

A system with a triple core processor should have no problem with Oblivion, and yet it does.  Sure, it has less RAM, but with no OS that shouldn't be a factor.  I just don't get it.


What are you basing your assessment on?  What standard are you comparing it to?  When you compare something to a completely unqualified standard then it's likely to fail that comparison.


I'm basing it on the fact that none of the games so far use the triple core processor to any advantage.  Oblivion was supposed to use them, but I don't see where it actually has.  I have Oblivion on the 360 and yet my friend who has a single core processor running at about 3.8Ghz equivalent, 1 GB RAM, and a 256MB video card gets better performance at a higher resolution.  I personally expected more from the hardware.  

I'm not regretting that I bought a 360, but it should be technically superior to a two year old PC and so far it's not.


You can't directly compare the 360's PowerPC in-order CPU to a general purpose x86 out-of-order execution CPU that ships with most computers today. If you take C code written for a PC and simply recompile it on the 360 its going to run much slower. How well Oblivion performs on the 360 is as much dependant on how much time and reosurces they were able to devote for customizing the engine for the 360.

The games will look better.  It just takes time.
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Sarkus
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« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2006, 12:36:25 AM »

Quote from: "Andrew Mallon"
You can't directly compare the 360's PowerPC in-order CPU to a general purpose x86 out-of-order execution CPU that ships with most computers today. If you take C code written for a PC and simply recompile it on the 360 its going to run much slower. How well Oblivion performs on the 360 is as much dependant on how much time and reosurces they were able to devote for customizing the engine for the 360.


Except that Bethesda specifically claimed to have done at least something along those lines.
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denoginizer
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« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2006, 02:07:57 AM »

Personally I find that Oblivion runs much better on my $400 360 than it does on my $1200 PC.  But I do agree that basing your judgements on 1st generation games is just silly.  Remember that Oblivion was supposed to be a launch title.  I have to say that none of my few complaints about the 360 so far have anything to do with the quality of it's graphics.
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« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2006, 02:20:02 PM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"
Quote from: "Andrew Mallon"
You can't directly compare the 360's PowerPC in-order CPU to a general purpose x86 out-of-order execution CPU that ships with most computers today. If you take C code written for a PC and simply recompile it on the 360 its going to run much slower. How well Oblivion performs on the 360 is as much dependant on how much time and reosurces they were able to devote for customizing the engine for the 360.


Except that Bethesda specifically claimed to have done at least something along those lines.


Oblivion on PC brings my PC to its knees when standing next to an oblivion gate ...

I have :

2GB RAM dual channel 3200
AMD Athy64 3800+ X2 (dual core)
7600GT CO
36GB SATA WD Raptor drive (10000RPM) OS & game install
250GB SATA Seagate 9th gen for storage.
24" Dell 16:9 LCD monitor (2405FPW)
Audigy 2 (for now; waiting for the XFI to come down in price)

I'm sure Kathode could explain it better, but as I understand it since the 360 final dev kits came out late, they worked their arses off to try to get them to use the hardware advantages present in the triple core: this doesn't mean it's using all the benefits, just that it's going to perform well.

Check out anandtech.com's Oblivion (PC) tests ... a 7600 GT on a FX60 does 17FPS avg beside a gate with bloom on... 17.

The HD widescreen res you may be running on (with the 360) is likely a factor on the performance; try running it in Low Def at 4:3 aspect and you should see a marked improvement in performance.
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