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Author Topic: Why Oblivion was delayed  (Read 3271 times)
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Hetz
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« on: December 24, 2005, 01:02:10 PM »

Saw this on Voodoo Extreme....according to this website, it was basicly done 2 months before the Xbox 360 launch!  :shock:


http://www.players4players.com/noticias/noticia.php?id=20231

Quote
Casting a comprehend languages spell reveals a story at Players4Players that talks about why exactly The Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion was delayed. They speculate the game had been finished for two months before the 360 launch. Their sources tell them that the real reason the gone gold announcement wasn't forthcoming was because when they recieved the final system, they felt the game wasn't fully taking advantage of the hardware


 :?

Also, an exclusive Oblivion hands-on is in the new issue of PC Gamer.

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« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2005, 01:21:55 PM »

Eh, huh, what? The game wasn't 'taking advantage' of the hardware, thus they delayed it? What the heck kind of sense does that make exactly?

And why delay the PC version then?
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« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2005, 01:47:59 PM »

Quote from: "Destructor"
Eh, huh, what? The game wasn't 'taking advantage' of the hardware, thus they delayed it?

My first guess would be so they could retool parts of it to take advantage of the hardware.
Quote
And why delay the PC version then?

Because Microsoft bought simultaneous release rights.  (This bit of speculation brought to you by "Microsoft attempted to buy exclusivity on every damn game for the Cube" Productions.)
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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2005, 02:15:37 PM »

My translation: It was choppy as heck.
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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2005, 02:27:23 PM »

Yeah, I have a feeling that the PC version is 100% done and it's the Xbox 360 version having slowdown/popup/clipping issues (as seen at X05 and Zero Hour) that is holding back everything.

*sigh*

I believe that they have either an agreement with Take-Two or Microsoft that mandates both versions are to be released at the same time.  frown
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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2005, 03:00:31 PM »

I wouldn't doubt that. The strength of the game on a console vs PC should be consistent framerate/visuals etc. because the game engine should be highly optimized for the hardware (since the hardware is a fixed entity with the exception of being able to cache data on the HD). Sounds like they had to do some tweaking to the game engine.
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« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2005, 03:25:01 PM »

Quote from: "CrayolaSmoker"
[
Because Microsoft bought simultaneous release rights.  (This bit of speculation brought to you by "Microsoft attempted to buy exclusivity on every damn game for the Cube" Productions.)


That's pretty solid speculation.  It only makes sense; MS wants people to buy it for the Xbox 360, as it would be a system seller.  Best way to make sure that happens is to require simultaneous release with competing systems (or else those who really want Oblivion would have just gotten it on their PCs anyways).

The hardware thing is interesting.  Wonder why the Xbox 360s they supplied to the devs and the ones for final release were that far different?
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« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2005, 05:05:31 PM »

Quote from: "Eightball"
The hardware thing is interesting.  Wonder why the Xbox 360s they supplied to the devs and the ones for final release were that far different?

Because for the longest time dev kits were nothing short of a suped up Mac?

And interesting theories, everybody. They make total sense too, unfortunately for those of us who would buy the game for the PC mainly due to mod support.
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« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2005, 06:00:33 PM »

I've only read the quote in here and not the link but doesn't this sound like what we've though all along- the game was "complete" (ie content complete and in beta) for several months and needed some more time with a final dev kit to iron out the bugs and performance issues?  I'd file this under "not news".
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« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2005, 06:10:45 PM »

I'll still go for the PC version. Morrowind was good but iyt was the 2 gigs of mods I downloaded that made it great. I expect the same for Oblivion.
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« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2005, 06:57:25 PM »

Allow me to ignore anyone who says that it's the 360 verson holding up the PC or vice versa, my experience on Beth's forums tells me that people backing one platform blame the other for anything that goes wrong.

I beleive what Beth says: It's not finished. If you watch some of the newer vids, you can see trees popping in & out of existance.
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« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2005, 07:03:58 PM »

Quote from: "Misguided"
My translation: It was choppy as heck.
That's the answer, folks.  The game runs like ass, and Beth is working overtime to try and fix that.

HINT:  The PC version will run like ass well into 2008, ala Morrowind.
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« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2005, 08:05:41 PM »

Quote from: "Hetz"
Saw this on Voodoo Extreme....according to this website, it was basicly done 2 months before the Xbox 360 launch!  :shock:


http://www.players4players.com/noticias/noticia.php?id=20231

Quote
Casting a comprehend languages spell reveals a story at Players4Players that talks about why exactly The Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion was delayed. They speculate the game had been finished for two months before the 360 launch. Their sources tell them that the real reason the gone gold announcement wasn't forthcoming was because when they recieved the final system, they felt the game wasn't fully taking advantage of the hardware


 :?

Also, an exclusive Oblivion hands-on is in the new issue of PC Gamer.




ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT!  WRONG!!

How about, when I saw the game just a few weeks before launch it still had glaring shader bugs and draw distance optimizations to do?  They just needed more polish time, nothing more.  Time to 'get it right'.  I'm cool with that. smile
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« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2005, 09:38:09 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "Misguided"
My translation: It was choppy as heck.
That's the answer, folks.  The game runs like ass, and Beth is working overtime to try and fix that.

HINT:  The PC version will run like ass well into 2008, ala Morrowind.


Werd.

gellar
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« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2005, 09:47:30 PM »

Quote from: "gellar"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
HINT:  The PC version will run like ass well into 2008, ala Morrowind.


Werd.

gellar


That's utter BS...it ran find on my machine when it came out. Sure I didn't have draw distance maxed, but it most definitely did not run like ass.
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« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2005, 11:51:39 PM »

But was it choppy because of the enforced change to run off of the DVD?  That seems likely to me...
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« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2005, 01:06:31 AM »

I was told that they knew they'd have to run it off the DVD from the word go.    If you have the HDD it runs better, but it runs just fine of the DVD, so I'm told.
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« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2005, 01:50:02 AM »

Quote from: "Lee"
Quote from: "gellar"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
HINT:  The PC version will run like ass well into 2008, ala Morrowind.


Werd.

gellar


That's utter BS...it ran find on my machine when it came out. Sure I didn't have draw distance maxed, but it most definitely did not run like ass.


Ok so if you dind'nt want to run the game to look like it was advertised in magazines and trailers it didn't run like crap.
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« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2005, 03:42:57 PM »

Hey Morrowind ran great when you turned off the safedisk.... Oops...
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« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2005, 07:52:43 PM »

Hey, this is all BS - You are ALL ... Oops, forgot I don't know what I'm talking about! Know not a thing about game dev or PC games! :lol:

I just want the damn game... damnit! I won't feel like I have a 360 until Oblivion is playing on it.  But I agree with KD - regardless of why it's late - I'm cool with waiting for it as long as it isn't buggy.  I adored Morrowind but I would really love to have Oblivion free of the long load times, freezes, and other little bugs that plagued it (yes, even the new and improved GOTY version).  :roll:
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« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2005, 09:29:43 PM »

Total bullhockey.  I'd use stronger words if I could.  Here's the big secret reason - The game wasn't done.  That's both PC and 360.  Leave your conspiracy theories at home.
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« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2005, 09:36:46 PM »

Quote from: "kathode"
Total bullhockey.  I'd use stronger words if I could.  Here's the big secret reason - The game wasn't done.  That's both PC and 360.  Leave your conspiracy theories at home.


Well that's not any fun.

gellar
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« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2005, 10:44:32 PM »

Quote from: "kathode"
Total bullhockey.  I'd use stronger words if I could.  Here's the big secret reason - The game wasn't done.  That's both PC and 360.  Leave your conspiracy theories at home.


Bah. Like you know anything about working at a game company.

/goes back to conspiring
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« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2005, 05:42:07 AM »

Quote from: "kathode"
Total bullhockey.  I'd use stronger words if I could.  Here's the big secret reason - The game wasn't done.  That's both PC and 360.  Leave your conspiracy theories at home.


I'd imagine you guys knew that well before you decided to share it with the rest of the world.

I don't mind that games are delayed but I do mind when massive delays happen at the last minute.  Be honest up front and everyone will be a lot happier.
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« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2005, 07:06:17 AM »

I'd rather the nth hour delay than a broken product.  I've reviewed a few this year and it was not pleasant.
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« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2005, 12:26:18 PM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"

I'd imagine you guys knew that well before you decided to share it with the rest of the world.

I don't mind that games are delayed but I do mind when massive delays happen at the last minute.


What difference does it make?
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« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2005, 12:57:18 PM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
I'd rather the nth hour delay than a broken product.  I've reviewed a few this year and it was not pleasant.


Not to rehash this whole thing again, but what I didn't like was the way Pete was telling people at X05 that they were in the "final stages" of polishing and that it would be out at "launch", when I am sure he clearly knew that it was nowhere near being done. Heck the same problems were in the build at X05 (no shadows, popup problems, framerate issues) that were in the build at Zero Hour. I find it hard to believe that they were still thinking it would be out in a few weeks at X05 (where it had some major issues, that still were not solved by Zero Hour) and then all of a sudden in the next week or so realised that it wouldn't be done until March 06. That is a rather large delay and a far cry from "the final stages of polishing" BS line that Pete was feeding the press at X05.

Like Sarkus said, be upfront with your customers. Don't hide in the shadows and feed us BS like "Holiday 2005!!!" and "it's in the final stages of polishing" when it clearly is nowhere near being done.

End of Rant.  biggrin

Now that I got that out of my system, I can't wait for this game!!!! smile Hurry up, kathode!!
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« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2005, 01:08:24 PM »

Quote from: "Hetz"
Now that I got that out of my system, I can't wait for this game!!!! smile Hurry up, kathode!!

Yeah, I feel the same way pretty much - upset at how the game was delayed at the last minute, but I'm still gonna buy it day one no matter what. biggrin
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« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2005, 07:21:42 PM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"
I'd imagine you guys knew that well before you decided to share it with the rest of the world.  Be honest up front and everyone will be a lot happier.


I'm glad you have an active imagination smile  Dry your tears.  Everyone will be a lot happier when they play the game.
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« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2005, 09:32:52 PM »

Quote from: "kathode"
Quote from: "Sarkus"
I'd imagine you guys knew that well before you decided to share it with the rest of the world.  Be honest up front and everyone will be a lot happier.


I'm glad you have an active imagination smile  Dry your tears.  Everyone will be a lot happier when they play the game.


Not Hetz. There is no way in hell that the game, no matter how good, can live up to his expectations.  :wink:
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« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2005, 10:42:36 PM »

Quote from: "Ralph-Wiggum"
Quote from: "kathode"
Quote from: "Sarkus"
I'd imagine you guys knew that well before you decided to share it with the rest of the world.  Be honest up front and everyone will be a lot happier.


I'm glad you have an active imagination smile  Dry your tears.  Everyone will be a lot happier when they play the game.


Not Hetz. There is no way in hell that the game, no matter how good, can live up to his expectations.  :wink:


This is a rumor, so I don't know if it's true. But I heard that Oblivion can MAKE A SANDWICH. No kidding, folks. It's just a rumor, so I don't know how reliable it is... but I read it on VoodooExtreme.
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« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2005, 03:05:55 AM »

Quote from: "kathode"
Quote from: "Sarkus"
I'd imagine you guys knew that well before you decided to share it with the rest of the world.  Be honest up front and everyone will be a lot happier.


I'm glad you have an active imagination smile  Dry your tears.  Everyone will be a lot happier when they play the game.


+1 smile
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« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2005, 03:47:12 AM »

:?:   You guys are making a new game Kathode?  Tell me more about it...will it have monsters?  Can I bake bread? smile
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« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2005, 04:30:13 AM »

Quote
This is a rumor, so I don't know if it's true. But I heard that Oblivion can MAKE A SANDWICH. No kidding, folks. It's just a rumor, so I don't know how reliable it is... but I read it on VoodooExtreme.

+2  :lol:
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« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2005, 05:42:17 AM »

Quote from: "kathode"
Quote from: "Sarkus"
I'd imagine you guys knew that well before you decided to share it with the rest of the world.  Be honest up front and everyone will be a lot happier.


I'm glad you have an active imagination smile  Dry your tears.  Everyone will be a lot happier when they play the game.


What does that mean?  Are you claiming the four month delay (or more) was a last minute "discovery"?  Or are you suggesting that it didn't matter when you announced the delay?  If it's the latter, I'd argue that you are wrong.  I would hope developers would have learned from the Valve/Half-Life 2 delays that being honest is always better than waiting until the last minute to admit you have some work to do.
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« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2005, 05:49:15 AM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"
Quote from: "kathode"
Quote from: "Sarkus"
I'd imagine you guys knew that well before you decided to share it with the rest of the world.  Be honest up front and everyone will be a lot happier.


I'm glad you have an active imagination smile  Dry your tears.  Everyone will be a lot happier when they play the game.


What does that mean?  Are you claiming the four month delay (or more) was a last minute "discovery"?  Or are you suggesting that it didn't matter when you announced the delay?  If it's the latter, I'd argue that you are wrong.  I would hope developers would have learned from the Valve/Half-Life 2 delays that being honest is always better than waiting until the last minute to admit you have some work to do.


I would remind you sir, that Half Life 2 rocked the socks off of the entire world. That delay sucked, but worked out to perfection for all of us.
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« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2005, 05:56:20 AM »

I suspect that was more an MS pressure thing than a Bethesda thing, no? Am I just being naive?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist - at all - but if anyone was going to mislead the public, purposely, on Oblivion being a launch title, I would think it would be MS, not Bethesda... though it might fall on them in the long run -  there are "pressures" at the top level, I'm sure, on who has to take the blame...

I'm still happy to wait for the perfected product, no matter how long it takes or what it's delay reasons are (now that I've survived my major angst time) - I really just want a non-buggy product, whenever it comes out!  Tongue
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« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2005, 06:23:17 AM »

Quote from: "mytocles"
I suspect that was more an MS pressure thing than a Bethesda thing, no? Am I just being naive?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist - at all - but if anyone was going to mislead the public, purposely, on Oblivion being a launch title, I would think it would be MS, not Bethesda... though it might fall on them in the long run -  there are "pressures" at the top level, I'm sure, on who has to take the blame...

I'm still happy to wait for the perfected product, no matter how long it takes or what it's delay reasons are (now that I've survived my major angst time) - I really just want a non-buggy product, whenever it comes out!  Tongue


I'm not sure it would be legal for MS to do that.  Publicly traded companies are not supposed to announce major delays at the last minute because anticipation of a major product release can influence investment decisions.  That said, the game industry get's away with it all the time.  I'm not sure how long that will last, but I still contend it makes better business sense to announce such delay's when you know they are coming then wait.  Kathode can say what he wants but I don't think Oblivion was delayed four months because of a last minute bug or whatever else.   They very likely knew a month before it was announced that they wouldn't make Christmas.
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« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2005, 06:34:34 AM »

I don't think a Bethesda game has the kind of clout that MS would need to push units anyway.  Such a thing might work on, say, Halo, but I hardly think anyone is buying a 360 just to get their paws on Oblivion.
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« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2005, 07:33:25 AM »

Quote from: "unbreakable"
I don't think a Bethesda game has the kind of clout that MS would need to push units anyway.  Such a thing might work on, say, Halo, but I hardly think anyone is buying a 360 just to get their paws on Oblivion.


Uh, I am.
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