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Author Topic: Where are the Dungeon Lords Reviews/Impressions?  (Read 5898 times)
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KC
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« on: May 06, 2005, 01:05:28 AM »

Did anyone pick it up?
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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2005, 01:38:58 AM »

I think Tim was picking it up.  You pick it up yet Tim? Huh HUH HUH!??!?
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2005, 03:33:31 AM »

Uh, no, Ron, I said I was waiting for a review or two before I got it.

After the alpha-quality demo, I had no intention on getting this day 1 like I intended to before.
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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2005, 07:11:31 AM »

I might -- MIGHT -- pick this up tomorrow.  I have $30 of EB credit and aside from Atelier Iris, (and FATE by WildTangent, which looks pretty good) there's nothing else coming out this quarter that I want/plan to buy.

Hopefully some of the major sites will have reviews up by tomorrow, but if they don't, I might just bite the bullet and give it a spin...

I mean, I think I'm a bit late when it comes to 'taking one for the team' anyway.   :wink:
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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2005, 03:48:48 PM »

I get bad vibes from this game.
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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2005, 04:45:01 PM »

Ok, just received the game and installed it. The game comes with 3 CDs in sleeves, a separate disc box with a CD key on it, a 19x13 map of the world, a 48 page manual and a registration card.

The manual is not Fallout quality, but it appears adequate. Though the font is a little small.

The game installed without a hitch. It does not use Starforce, in fact, I started the game without any CD in the drive. Although I have not gotten past the options screen, so maybe it will ask for the CD yet. The autorun on CD1 booted up installshield with the game installed. So maybe it doesn't need the disc in the drive? Weird.

Choosing an alternate res from 800x600 presents a "window" rather than stretching to fit the monitor. Something wonky there.

Thats as far as I have gotten. More impressions to follow....

EDIT: well the resolution issue appears to be a problem only with the opening screen/main menu. Once I went into character generation and into the game, all appeared fine playing at 1024x768.

There is no map at the beginning of the game. I believe this is either something you need to find/purchase or its an acquired skill.

DL is most likely going to be panned by the media, only to be loved by those who miss the old school RPGs such as Wizardry, M&M, Arena etc. From a technical standpoint, it seems only adequate by today's stadards although I really like the enemy/monster models. The spiders look cool.

I'm still outside Fargrove where the demo starts. It doesn't have the problem where you are attacked relentlessly at the outset.
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2005, 05:03:15 PM »

Is it better, worse, or the same as the demo?  IE, was the demo really an 'alpha,' or is that a bunch of bullshit?

Oooo, there are already reports of features listed in the manual not actually appearing in the game:

Quote
( no controls for the Options to change your Face/Color Hair Style/Color and to make your Right hand Primary weapon... even though these options are listed in the manuals. )
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« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2005, 05:15:18 PM »

Quote from: "FlyingElvis"
I'm still outside Fargrove where the demo starts. It doesn't have the problem where you are attacked relentlessly at the outset.

That right there shows that it's better than the demo already. Just remember you don't have the 'uber rez' key that the demo had. biggrin

Keep up on the impressions, if you would. I'd love to hear more about this, as I was an old-school RPG fan.
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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2005, 05:39:54 PM »

Quote from: "Destructor"
Quote from: "FlyingElvis"
I'm still outside Fargrove where the demo starts. It doesn't have the problem where you are attacked relentlessly at the outset.

That right there shows that it's better than the demo already. Just remember you don't have the 'uber rez' key that the demo had. biggrin

Keep up on the impressions, if you would. I'd love to hear more about this, as I was an old-school RPG fan.
Actually you do have the uber rez key. BUT, its not free. It uses any Adv points you have accumulated but have not yet allocated to skill/attribute upgrades. It does not effect your experience or level. Rezing now also includes some nifty blue ray of light effects.  biggrin

I'll have to see what happens if you have little or no adv. points.

EDIT: Ok, with a lousy 186 adv. points, I was still able to rez. As far as I can tell, there is no other penalty. I'm sure this was intended for MP, but it feels like cheating in SP unless they instituted some kind of minimum points needed for it to work. Like perhaps a percentage of experience gained.

EDIT the sequel: Rez costs more than your adv. points. It also took a point from my intelligence attribute as well. Not sure if this is random or what. But its a hefty cost.
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« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2005, 10:29:43 PM »

Well, as anyone with a clue predicted, the game does indeed appear to suck ass.

From the forums:

Quote
I am very VERY disappointed. I spend $40 on a game that was implied in the forums from the programmer(?) that many of the problems I saw with the demo were resolved and that I was going to see these fixes in the retail version. Ok I said I'll take a chance, I purchase a LOT of games and this one looked interesting. Well Electronics Boutique won't take it back unless I am willing to lose 1/2 the purchase price..$20 for checking out what was supposed to be a finished game. I will admit there seem to be some enhancements since the demo, like getting out of the water is way easier and now with the settings set to very easy I actually don't have to worry about mob spawns every few seconds but wheres the target indicator, wheres the map, wheres the features that were not implemented in the demo in the retail...Did I just pay $40 for a updated DEMO... I hope not and if I could return this software(junk) I most likely would but losing 1/2 the price for 1hrs use (or attempted use) just burns me. I will have to consider strongly whether I will recommend any products from Dreamcatcher ever again after seeing what they feel is a finished product. Now I can here some of you say well they are gonna update it..OK, find but updates and patches are for the small stuff that may slip through the crack during normal inhouse testing but are found after release. In my opinion (and I know it may only be my opinion) that this was not what I feel most in the gaming community will consider to be a finished product and the programmers/developers/distributor's will soon feel it in there financial pocketbooks with returns, cancellations and poor reviews of the product.
Until we see a working update...Laters


There are also negative opinions over at OO, if you care.
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2005, 12:23:28 AM »

I played the demo. My summary review?  thumbsdown
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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2005, 03:22:17 AM »

Well one man's suck ass is another man's treasure. I'm loving the game in a "can't put it down" kind of way. I marveled at the HL2 physics but was bored to tears with the gameplay. Dungeon Lords is the flip side of HL2 for me.
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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2005, 04:59:43 AM »

Quote from: "FlyingElvis"
Well one man's suck ass is another man's treasure. I'm loving the game in a "can't put it down" kind of way. I marveled at the HL2 physics but was bored to tears with the gameplay. Dungeon Lords is the flip side of HL2 for me.
DL is the flip side of HL2 for me too.

In that, HL2 is a classic, and DL is the dregs of the bargain bin.
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« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2005, 06:43:51 AM »

After a solid day with it off and on, its one of those titles you see that if it was in the hands of a more mature developer (not under the scruitiny of the suits), would be an absolute gem.

There are some great features and fun old-school gameplay times to be had for sure...it feels like Ultima, Gothic, and Die By the Sword put together, but, like everyone predicted, the game isnt finished.

The automap function isnt in the game (it was rumored to be a skill or item you find, but latest reports are its actually disabled because it crashes the game), you cant change your characters apperance, and some class combinations actually break. Buggy as hell, so they say.

But its nothing that kills the game. You can tell its fun as hell. Somewhere. They already got one patch announced for Monday, and I think in about a good month or two, this will stand as the spirtual successor to Wizardry, Lands of Lore, and so forth.
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« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2005, 06:47:22 AM »

The problem is, Pharaoh, Dreamcatcher isn't likely to shell out the money for more than a couple patches.  It already pushed the game out the door, probably to cut its losses, so patching it more than a couple times just doesn't seem that probable (unless patching was covered in the initial contract between Heuristic Park and Dreamcatcher).
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« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2005, 06:51:12 AM »

Yea, I worry the same LE, but I gotta have some hope that they really stick with this one, or at least a group does that produces a fan patch for it. It has something to it that made me keep playing even after my 1600x1200 resolution shrank to the size of a thimble and it crashed twice during a single fight.

DW Bradley + Relic = *Need New Pants*
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« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2005, 01:04:06 PM »

I'm not sure I'd be so ready to completely blame Dreamcatcher. It seems as though Heuristic Park had a long time to develop this game. Although D.W. Bradley clearly knows what makes for a fun RPG, he seems to have surrounded himself with a less competent technical staff. How hard is it to make an automap? Games have had maps for like, forever.

With that said, the game is still a lot of fun. Anyone that loves the old RPGs will love it. Although waiting for the game to mature furthur would be a good idea.
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« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2005, 08:49:46 PM »

Oh, I'm not blaming Dreamcatcher at all.  I think they'd be idiotic to pay any more money than they have to for this steaming pile is all.

Here's a fine quote from the official forums:

Quote
Major retailers are taking this title back. I took mine back to Best Buy last night and they took all their Dungeon Lords off the shelf, due to all the complaints.

Send the developer a clear message and take it back. This is clearly an unacceptable business practice.


It's like Master of Orion 3 all over again.
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« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2005, 09:40:41 PM »

Coming to a Big Lots near you!
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« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2005, 08:55:08 AM »

Let's not overreact here.  This is no MOO3, if only because this game is no where near as anticipated.  That said, I'm finding it to be a solid game.  Plenty of hack n slash gameplay here, re-spawning mobs, etc.  The bugs aren't that noticeable.  The lack of a map thing is pretty weak, to be honest, but only because the dungeon levels are so big, the town streets so messy, etc.

Don't be scared away if you were looking forward to this one.  It's no where near as broken as some hysterical people would have you believe.
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« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2005, 07:12:57 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Here's a fine quote from the official forums:

Quote
Major retailers are taking this title back. I took mine back to Best Buy last night and they took all their Dungeon Lords off the shelf, due to all the complaints.

If that is true...ouch. And yet another unfinished game is released to the masses...
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« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2005, 08:34:00 PM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"
Let's not overreact here.  This is no MOO3, if only because this game is no where near as anticipated.  That said, I'm finding it to be a solid game.  Plenty of hack n slash gameplay here, re-spawning mobs, etc.  The bugs aren't that noticeable.  The lack of a map thing is pretty weak, to be honest, but only because the dungeon levels are so big, the town streets so messy, etc.

Don't be scared away if you were looking forward to this one.  It's no where near as broken as some hysterical people would have you believe.

?

Even if you were interested in the game, the wise thing to do would be to wait on the (rapidly approaching) price drop.  All signs point to this stinker being $10 by the end of May.
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« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2005, 05:56:40 AM »

I suspect waiting on a price drop would apply even if the game shipped completely perfect.  Let's be honest, this is hardly a mass-market title.

That being said, I know that it's availability in my area this weekend was pretty scarce.  A friend went all over the place before he finally found the last one at a GameStop.
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« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2005, 07:05:41 AM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"
I suspect waiting on a price drop would apply even if the game shipped completely perfect.  Let's be honest, this is hardly a mass-market title.

I'd gladly pay in full for a 'perfect' Dungeon Lords, or hell, even a well-designed, 90-99% complete one.  I think most roleplayers would.  It's a dry genre, especially on the PC.

I'm not suggesting you wait on a price drop because it's frugal, I'm suggesting you wait on a price drop because a.) the game is dregs-of-the-bargain-bin quality; b.) the longer you wait, the better idea you'll have of when/if this game is going to be patched to a decent state; and c.) the longer you wait, the more chances you have to realize buying this turd is a HORRIBLE IDEA.

Quote
That being said, I know that it's availability in my area this weekend was pretty scarce.  A friend went all over the place before he finally found the last one at a GameStop.
The point is, don't rush out to buy crap.  Even crap in limited quantities is still crap.

A refresher for those not convinced to stay far, far away:

-All reports (minus the laughable apologist astroturfing) indicate the game is on par with Pool of Radiance 2: Ruins of Myth Drannor.  Indeed, the two games seem to share alot of the same issues (horrible runtime/slowdown bugs, broken quests, broken--ie exploitable--methods of exp/gold gain, unfinished areas, etc etc etc.)

-The full game is actually worse than the demo.  Sure, there's more game world to explore in the full game, but with it comes exponentially more bugs/issues.  Let me rephrase that for effect:  remember that trash demo recently released for Dungeon Lords that generated the rumor it was an old build of the game?  It wasn't.  The demo was a completely up-to-date build, and the developers didn't fix a single damn issue in it for release.
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« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2005, 05:37:04 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
-The full game is actually worse than the demo.  Sure, there's more game world to explore in the full game, but with it comes exponentially more bugs/issues.  Let me rephrase that for effect:  remember that trash demo recently released for Dungeon Lords that generated the rumor it was an old build of the game?  It wasn't.  The demo was a completely up-to-date build, and the developers didn't fix a single damn issue in it for release.

Well, based on lines like this one, and the official forums, I'll be most definitely waiting for a price drop to pick this one up.

And here I was so interested in the game...
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« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2005, 05:56:50 PM »

so much for the drought ending...

such a shame that dl even shipped like this.
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« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2005, 06:30:23 PM »

Quote from: "Destructor"
And here I was so interested in the game...
Me too, man.  Me too.
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« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2005, 10:35:23 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
-All reports (minus the laughable apologist astroturfing) indicate the game is on par with Pool of Radiance 2: Ruins of Myth Drannor.  Indeed, the two games seem to share alot of the same issues (horrible runtime/slowdown bugs, broken quests, broken--ie exploitable--methods of exp/gold gain, unfinished areas, etc etc etc.)


Hey, as long as it doesn't wipe my hard drive when I unistall it (like the initial retail shipment of PoR) then it is at least a step in the right direction...
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« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2005, 10:36:13 PM »

This game is so poor! The demo was a disgrace.
Are we just desperate for ANY new game no matter how poor it is?!
I won't pay a penny for crap.
I won't play it for free.
If your desperate, just go back and play the better old titles that you might not have played yet. Planescape, Age of Wonders 1&2, HOMM 3, Wiz 8 etc.

How
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« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2005, 03:24:59 AM »

How many of you have actually played the game and how many are relying on the usual OMG IT SUXORS reaction we see on most games?  

I'm not saying it's perfect, but I do own the game and it is not as horribly broken as some of you seem to think it is.  I think most hard core hack and slash gameplay fans who understand that DL does not have cutting edge graphics will be fine with it in its current state.   I've not seen a single crash, slowdown, or other major glitch.   Is it missing features?  Yes.  Does it have minor bugs? Yes.  Is it an unplayable mess?  No.
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« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2005, 03:42:40 AM »

I have to agree with Sarkus. There are some posts in this thread that are over the top melodramatic. I do own the game, and plan to some day play it. I do not regret buying it. I prefer to support efforts to make this type of RPG. So shoot me.

I did put the game aside for the timebeing. But I'd rather wait for a better game after its been patched.

The game is playable out of the box, but its going to get better.
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« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2005, 05:14:27 AM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"
How many of you have actually played the game and how many are relying on the usual OMG IT SUXORS reaction we see on most games?  

I'm not saying it's perfect, but I do own the game and it is not as horribly broken as some of you seem to think it is.  I think most hard core hack and slash gameplay fans who understand that DL does not have cutting edge graphics will be fine with it in its current state.   I've not seen a single  crash, slowdown, or other major glitch.   Is it missing features?  Yes. Does it have minor bugs? Yes.  Is it an unplayable mess?  No.
Ugh.

Why bother defending this dreck?  I mean, it's suspicious enough that you're appearing in nearly every DL thread I've read on my regular round of forum visits, defending the game... but assumptions about your intentions (or employers) aside, do you really think the game is worth $40 in its current state?  I would hope the answer would be a resounding "No!" for any gamer with a brain.

Developers and publishers who release crap like this do not deserve your money.  Your dollars are votes -- why encourage this bullshit?!

I mean, if you're really chomping at the bit to play Dungeon Lords despite these warnings, try the demo.  Still like it?  Wait til the end of May, I promise you the game will be 1/2, if not 1/4th or less, the price it is now.

Buying Dungeon Lords at full price is akin to giving the big thumbs-up to developers and publishers who'd let an obviously unfinished product make it to store shelves.  For the sake of PC Gaming... don't do this!
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« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2005, 05:22:20 AM »

If you want a good/great Action/RPG to scratch the Dungeon Lords itch, I heartily recommend the indie Mount & Blade.  Think Pirates meets Gothic/Dungeon Lords.  It's still early(ish) in development, but its demo is very playable and very enjoyable.  Try it out.
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« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2005, 05:31:18 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Why bother defending this dreck?  I mean, it's suspicious enough that you're appearing in nearly every DL thread I've read on my regular round of forum visits, defending the game... but assumptions about your intentions (or employers) aside, do you really think the game is worth $40 in its current state?  I would hope the answer would be a resounding "No!" for any gamer with a brain.


If I'm appearing in "nearly every DL thread I've read" then you aren't visiting too many forums since I've only posted here and at QT3 about this game.  :lol:

I'm only defending the game against the more excessive negativity I've seen.  I had no expectations about DL going in and bought it after seeing a fair amount of early negative feedback on this and the official forum.  Is it worth $40?  That's up to each individual to decide, but that decision should be based on facts and not on over-exagerrations.  For example, on QT3 a poster said something negative about the game that is flat-out not true.  There's nothing wrong with someone who actually has the game pointing out the inaccuracy of that statement.
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« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2005, 05:51:32 AM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"
I had no expectations about DL going in and bought it after seeing a fair amount of early negative feedback on this and the official forum.

Ah, that would explain it...

I guess it's much more frustruating if you listened to Dreamcatcher/Heuristic Park's promises about the game.  Or if, you know, you thought previews might be indicative of the final product.

For example, there is a screenshot, high-res and full color, that clearly shows an auto-map in use.  The reality of the situation is that it's the only map file in the game -- ie, the only automap file in the game was used to make an ad, then the idea was thrown out.

In the end, it's a big fat case of caveat emptor.  What you see is not necessarily what you get, in Dungeon Lords' case.

Quote
For example, on QT3 a poster said something negative about the game that is flat-out not true.  There's nothing wrong with someone who actually has the game pointing out the inaccuracy of that statement.
I completely agree with you and hope you continue to repair factual inaccuracies regarding the game.

As for the seeing your name on most of the forums I visit -- I was mistaken, there's actually a guy named Searkus who happened to be hyping DL prior to release and is now playing the overly defensive fanboy on two of the other forums I visit.  Your writing styles weren't very similar, but the tone of those other two forums are significantly different than here and QT3, so I just assumed it was an issue of writing to one's audience.  My bad for getting you confused with this other guy.
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« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2005, 05:59:34 AM »

Actually, I would like to hear about the Item/Inventory system a little more.  Is magic as clunky as it was in the demo?  Is there interesting equipment?  Is the 'junk' system as rancid as it sounds?
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Fuzzballx
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« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2005, 04:20:06 PM »

www.battleon.com

That game is way more fun than DL.
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FlyingElvis
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« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2005, 06:35:08 PM »

Quote from: "Fuzzballx"
www.battleon.com

That game is way more fun than DL.
Maybe, but everytime I find the time to get on, the uber spawns are camped. When will the developers learn.
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« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2005, 07:13:15 PM »

Quote from: "Fuzzballx"
www.battleon.com

That game is way more fun than DL.
lol, is that supposed to be a joke, or is that game seriously fun?

Answered my own question by trying the game.  I'm assuming you were joking.
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« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2005, 10:57:31 PM »

v1.1 patch released.  Grab it here.

From the readme:
Quote
Information on some of the following topics was not included or has
changed since the printing of the manual:


Version 1.1 Updates

Gameplay tweak: Monsters less aggressive in some areas of the game.
Gameplay tweak: Magic items appear at a more even rate.
Gameplay tweak: Ice magic now holds opponents longer.
Gameplay tweak: Exploit reselling single use scrolls and lockpicks can no
longer be abused.
Gameplay tweak: Boons from relics at Talendor adjusted.
Added feature: Additional spells added for specific types of magic.
Added feature: New heraldries added for specific quest bonuses.
Added feature: Players may skip voice-over/text dialogues with NPCs.
Bug fix: Screen resizing issues in the User-Interface fixed.
Bug fix: Bargain skill works correctly for reselling items.
Bug fix: occasional guild inventories not showing up in MP now fixed.
Bug fix: Pain Sting (nether spell) now fixed.
Bug fix: Flickering on load screen no longer occurs.
Bug fix: Occaisional hang under MP in Fargove Slums now fixed.
Bug fix: Order of the quests at the Celestial Order in Fargove adjusted.
Bug fix: In the Shadow Ruins, the Blue Athena Statue now drops the Shadow
Crystal even after failing the chess puzzle.


**IMPORTANT NOTE on TASK SWITCHING**

Dungeon Lords does not currently support multitasking when run as a full-screen
application.  If you use the Alt-Tab key combination to minimize the game you
will need to close it from the Task Manager and will lose any progress since
yourlast save.

You can play Dungeon Lords in a window by running the executable using the
command line parameter "dlords -gdi".  Playing in this mode will allow you to
switch between applications, however mouselook will no longer work and you will
need to map the view rotations to the keyboard.

- Some users have reported that difficulty hearing the voiceover.  This can be
adjusted by reducing the volume of the other ambient sounds in the controls on
the options screen.

- Users on some systems may experience a flickering on the main menu screen if
it is left to idle.  This may be due to triple buffering on the video card
and can tweaked in your video display settings.

-Users must use the sliders to adjust settings on the options screen.

-Users on some systems have reported load time lengthening as they progress
through the game during long play sessions.  Restoring from a saved game seems
to solve this issue.

-The potion of Power currently has no effect.

- Multiplayer games have been designed so that they can be resumed using fewer
characters than were originally present when the game was saved.  However,
resuming without a character in possession of quest items may cause progression
issues.

- There is a known multiplayer issue where if either 2 human females or 2 male
dwarf characters are in the game and one tries to exit, the other machine will crash.
This can result in loss of progress in situations where a client machine exits,
and the host machine was continuing to play but had not saved.


Manual Errata/Addendum

Page 7 - Game Settings
The default volumes for the different sounds in the game should be as follows:
Sound Effects=28; Music=80; Ambient=28; Speech=100

Page 9 - Creating Custom Characters
The last 4 options (face, skin color, hair style, hair color) are inactive in the
game.

Page 14 - The Game Screen
A line is missing from the end of this section indicating that the game compass can
be seen at the upper right hand corner of the screen.

Page 15 - Inventory
The junk inventory is inactive.  Duplicate items are discarded from inventory as
they are picked up.

Page 18 - Repair, Identify
The identify ability was removed from the game after it was determined that it did
not offer significant benefits in its current form.  Repair was also removed for
balance reasons relating to deterioration of weapons/armor during combat.

Page 23 - Obtaining Treasure and Other Items
As noted above, duplicate items that are picked up are automatically discarded
rather than being placed into the junk inventory.

Page 25 - Camping
Some hearths are lit in-game but the actual fire does not appear.  This does not
affect whether a player can actually camp there or not.

Page 32 - Hosting/Joining An Internet Game
Selecting Multiplayer from the main menu, leads you to a new menu - LAN or Internet.
Selecting the Internet option allows you to pick Direct IP (connect directly to
an IP address) or Gamespy, which uses the Gamespy service to find and connect to
other players.

Page 38 - Keyboard Controls
The automap feature has been removed from the game, so the M key is unused by
default.

Page 41 - Skills
As noted above, the Identify and Repair skills are inactive.
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