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Author Topic: What would make you play a MMORPG?  (Read 1512 times)
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cheeba
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« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2011, 07:40:43 PM »

I want a strong PvP game built from the ground up. That means never giving into carebear demands of making everything equal all the time.
I want an awesome crafting system like old Star Wars Galaxies.
I want player housing and player cities, and make them defensible and destructible, intertwined with PvP.
Interdependency. Crafters should depend on combatants who should depend on crafters.
Get rid of the damn healing/tank/dps model, or at least modify it so that everyone isn't always searching for a healer.
A world that changes with big events driven by the players. Players may need to work to make a bridge to access a continent. Others may work to destroy a colony or kingdom, etc.
It'd be nice to have customizable equipment that grew with you. Want a super awesome sword? Find the best metal and other materials. Have a master swordsmith craft it. Hunt for gems and have a jeweler insert them. Find a mage and have him enchant it with the souls of 100 foes you've slaughtered, etc.
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« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2011, 08:33:10 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on January 06, 2011, 07:40:43 PM

I want a strong PvP game built from the ground up. That means never giving into carebear demands of making everything equal all the time.

I want that too so that you finally stop whining about it after playing every MMO with the belief that they should have done this; even if all the previews, reviews, player forums and Nightline News report that it never was supposed to.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 09:22:05 PM by hepcat » Logged

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« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2011, 09:00:59 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on January 06, 2011, 08:33:10 PM

Quote from: cheeba on January 06, 2011, 07:40:43 PM

I want a strong PvP game built from the ground up. That means never giving into carebear demands of making everything equal all the time.

I want that to so that you finally stop whining about it after playing every MMO with the belief that they should have done this; even if all the previews, reviews, player forums and Nightline News report that it never was supposed to.

I was with him till he ruined a perfectley good sounding pvp game by tossing in all that interdependent crafting shit...

fook crafting..  fookers cost me a fortune.   
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jersoc
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« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2011, 09:52:39 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on January 06, 2011, 02:23:35 PM

I'm the exact opposite of Rocketman.  The ability to play solo is the one single factor that will get me to play an MMO.  The less interaction I have to have with other people, the better.  I was able to get into MMO's like Guild Wars and LOTRO because I could spend a significant amount of time in these games without ever being forced to group with other people.   The moment the game becomes too difficult to solo or forces me into groups (i.e. to finish quests) is typically about the time I stop playing.

You just need to find the right group of people. I got extremely lucky in that respect. If everyone in the guild more or lesses melds together the enjoyment goes up quite a bit. I suspect lots and lots of players are still playing WoW or any mmo in general simply because of the other people in their guild.

Now, if you mean pug instances or whatever, then ugh...Just when I think i've seen it all someone somehow surprises me.
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cheeba
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« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2011, 12:11:55 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on January 06, 2011, 08:33:10 PM

I want that too so that you finally stop whining about it after playing every MMO with the belief that they should have done this; even if all the previews, reviews, player forums and Nightline News report that it never was supposed to.

Huh. That's odd, considering the only MMO's I've ever played are Star Wars Galaxies and World of Warcraft. You mind backing this up or would you rather just apologize for making it up?
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hepcat
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« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2011, 12:58:13 AM »

Quote from: cheeba on January 07, 2011, 12:11:55 AM

Quote from: hepcat on January 06, 2011, 08:33:10 PM

I want that too so that you finally stop whining about it after playing every MMO with the belief that they should have done this; even if all the previews, reviews, player forums and Nightline News report that it never was supposed to.

Huh. That's odd, considering the only MMO's I've ever played are Star Wars Galaxies and World of Warcraft. You mind backing this up or would you rather just apologize for making it up?

don't need to.  i didn't say you played every mmo, i was referring to every mmo you've played.  case in point, your annoying diatribes about "carebears" in wow threads.  but really, i just wanted to see what it felt like to be you for a bit.   icon_wink
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cheeba
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« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2011, 01:13:27 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on January 07, 2011, 12:58:13 AM

don't need to.  i didn't say you played every mmo, i was referring to every mmo you've played.

Except I liked the PvP in SWG. Stop making shit up.
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hepcat
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« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2011, 01:32:51 AM »

Quote from: cheeba on January 07, 2011, 01:13:27 AM

Quote from: hepcat on January 07, 2011, 12:58:13 AM

don't need to.  i didn't say you played every mmo, i was referring to every mmo you've played.

Except I liked the PvP in SWG. Stop making shit up.

i'm sure we look hard enough, we'll find an instance of you bitching about carebears in that game too.  it's what you do.  it's your thing.  I demand that you post every correspondence about SWG here to back up your claim!
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 02:05:19 AM by hepcat » Logged

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« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2011, 02:21:21 PM »

The problem with MMOs is that it is impossible to please everyone, but that's exactly what you have to try to do in an MMO to keep people playing. It's a constant juggling act, and I don't envy developers even attempting to pull it off.

I've played a LOT of MMOs over the years, and I've taken little things I loved about each of them (even the bad ones):

- EverQuest - The large, expansive world was just incredible. While "zones" are now a sort of archaic concept, they made the world of EQ feel huge and full of variety.

- Asheron's Call - The monthly event system in AC has never been equaled in my mind. Really cool developer-run events, a changing game world, an engaging storyline that felt like players made a difference. Awesome.

- Star Wars Galaxies - Many people will tell you that SWG still holds the record for best crafting system ever, and possibly best housing system ever. I tend to agree. The introduction of social professions (such as dancers) was also really cool. For all the things that SWG got wrong, they really nailed certain features that have seldom been equaled.

- Horizons - This is a little-played MMO that I think had some of the best ideas in an MMO ever. Unfortunately it was just too ahead of its time, and the developers were unable to maintain the infrastructure to make the massive events work and spent so much time on the 1-50 game that there was no end game content whatsoever. There is a laundry list of things this game got right though - awesome economy (still one of the best economic structures I've seen in an MMO), great crafting, the ability to change classes, the ability to play a dragon with a really unique "hoarding" concept, cooperative player events which required both crafters and adventurers to team up, combat "stance" system which introduced strategy into combat - there was a lot to love about this game. It still holds a really special place in my heart.

- Dark Age of Camelot - Fantastic game when it launched. The RvR combat was unique for its time and lots of fun.

- Shadowbane - Had one of the best (and most challenging) PvP structures ever. Guild on guild warfare was really fun. Getting ganked by an assassin while chatting with your friends....not so cool but it made the world feel extremely dangerous.

- Asheron's Call 2 - Disappointing game that had a couple of nifty ideas that never stuck. Players had to rebuild cities (which would then populate with NPCs, etc.) over time which sounded cool on paper but in reality never got off the ground. Monsters had combat "cues" which would tell you the best time to use a certain attack which was a neat idea that I wish would get reincorporated. They were also one of the first to create a really good group/dungeon/warpstone system to get people together for dungeon runs. AC2 was also one of the first MMOs I can recall that really pulled off player-created music and instrument playing! Unfortunately the game world was incredibly restrictive and linear, and the game was just so radically different from AC1 that people never really embraced it.

- City of Heroes - Loved the character creation (still the best in the industry), sort of loved the instanced missions. Unfortunately the superhero genre just doesn't grab me like fantasy/sci-fi worlds so I lost interest. But one of the first MMOs to prove you could break out of the sci-fi/fantasy model.

- Anarchy Online - I really loved this game, even though it was a buggy, laggy mess at launch. The instanced missions were really revolutionary at the time, and it was neat to be in a sci-fi world.

- Age of Conan - This game had one thing really going for it, and that was the pseudo-real time combat system. Really fun system that I hope another MMO will embrace. Good game, but hampered by bugs, unfinished content, and features listed on the box that were absent in-game. Released too soon, but there was a lot to love about it.

- EverQuest 2 - Probably my second favorite MMO behind EQ1. While it eventually turned into a bit of a WoW-clone, at launch it was a much, much different game. Grouping was emphasized, the game was all around tougher. Raids in this game were incredibly fun and incredibly challenging. The crafting system was the best since SWG, hands down, and they had an incredible housing system to boot. It's really too bad EQ2 was overshadowed (and eventually greatly influenced) by the launch of WoW, because in an alternate universe it definitely would have been the king of MMOs.

- World of Warcraft - I had a love/hate relationship with this game for years. Loved the beta, but wound up playing EQ2 instead because it felt more hardcore and challenging. Went back to WoW off and on over the years, but kept getting bored with the quest grind. Went back to it in September for Cataclysm and haven't looked back. At this point in my life it's a perfect fit, and though a few years ago I would have been appalled at playing such a "carebear" game, today I finally understand the appeal of such a solo-friendly, casual title.

- Lord of the Rings Online - This game is so much better than it should have been. Awesome game world, terrific emphasis on story, fantastic grouping mechanics, etc. My major problems with LOTRO is that combat never felt "real," skills were few and far between, and classes and certain mechanics were limited by the rigidity of the LOTRO license. It's still one of my favorite MMOs, however.

- PlanetSide - Terrific game that is considered one of the first MMOFPS. Hoping they make a sequel. Had its flaws but was really fun.

- WW2 Online - Another game that was way ahead of its time. Turned a lot of people off because you could literally drive 15 minutes (real-time) to the battle front and get hit with a single bullet and die. However, the game provided some of the most realistic "terror of war" gameplay that I've ever experienced.

- Aion - I actually really liked this game. The only turn-off I had was that end-game was pretty much all PvP-focused, so when I hit that point I started tuning out. The ability to fly was really cool, it had good solo-ability and questing, etc. Some people didn't like the Asian-inspired atmosphere, but I found it pretty refreshing and fun.

- Vanguard - I will forever live in infamy on OO for my persuasion in getting a bunch of people to buy this wreck of the game. However, I believed at the time that it was revolutionary in some ways (and still do). Technical bugs and execution were the game's downfall, not the gameplay mechanics. Vanguard brought back some of the hardcore stuff from the old EQ days (corpse runs, etc.) that I really enjoyed from a challenge perspective. The Diplomacy system was AWESOME and I pray that some MMO comes along and steals it one day because I think it truly could be the "third sphere" (behind adventuring and crafting) that could make an MMO great. The game world/dungeons were incredible, and this was one of the first MMOs since EQ that I felt I could spend time in just exploring. They didn't attempt to make all classes balanced, and in that sense it was a true "role" playing game in which everybody had strengths and weaknesses. The crafting system was incredibly complex and fun, and had it been more polished could have been the best crafting system ever. The game was just too ambitious, and the developer just too egotistical, for it to work. But by God it was a valiant attempt that I hope some developer will one day try to replicate.

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Aganazer
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« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2011, 02:54:56 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on January 07, 2011, 02:21:21 PM

The problem with MMOs is that it is impossible to please everyone

That's what she said...   eek

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hepcat
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« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2011, 03:13:39 PM »

My favorites would have to be

Dark Age of Camelot - Mostly because it was my first experience with a modern day MMORPG.  I still remember being in awe of such a beast.  I think I played it pretty steadily for at least a year.

Shadowbane - I loved the wealth of character classes, races and skills/powers.  It was my second MMORPG so I wasn't as jaded yet.  However, I quickly fell out of love after I realized I had to have an escort to even set foot outside of a city due to the overwhelming number of kids playing who felt it was fun to gank players even 10 to 20 levels below them.  If you were in a good guild and enjoyed hunting in packs all the time, I'm sure it was fun, though.  One of my fondest memories was standing outside The Wanderers city and shouting that I was from OO and looking for membership, then having someone shout back "we're expecting a war, could you come back later?".  When I turned around, there was about 20 people storming up the hill behind me.  I ran...unfortunately, not fast enough.

City of Heroes - I played this for a good year and a half to two years.  I love superheroes and I thought CoH captured the experience quite well.  However, burn out is inevitable for me on pretty much all MMO's.

I'm currently back into WoW but I'm burning out again.  I've been eying DC Universe Online, but I'm not sure I want to commit to yet another MMORPG on launch.

Guild Wars 2 though, I'm in on day 1 without blinking.  I love that series because it just drips with atmosphere and story.  It also doesn't drag 14.99 out of my pocket each month. 
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« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2011, 07:19:27 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on January 07, 2011, 03:13:39 PM

My favorites would have to be

Dark Age of Camelot - Mostly because it was my first experience with a modern day MMORPG.  I still remember being in awe of such a beast.  I think I played it pretty steadily for at least a year.

Shadowbane - I loved the wealth of character classes, races and skills/powers.  It was my second MMORPG so I wasn't as jaded yet.  However, I quickly fell out of love after I realized I had to have an escort to even set foot outside of a city due to the overwhelming number of kids playing who felt it was fun to gank players even 10 to 20 levels below them.  If you were in a good guild and enjoyed hunting in packs all the time, I'm sure it was fun, though.  One of my fondest memories was standing outside The Wanderers city and shouting that I was from OO and looking for membership, then having someone shout back "we're expecting a war, could you come back later?".  When I turned around, there was about 20 people storming up the hill behind me.  I ran...unfortunately, not fast enough.

City of Heroes - I played this for a good year and a half to two years.  I love superheroes and I thought CoH captured the experience quite well.  However, burn out is inevitable for me on pretty much all MMO's.

I'm currently back into WoW but I'm burning out again.  I've been eying DC Universe Online, but I'm not sure I want to commit to yet another MMORPG on launch.

Guild Wars 2 though, I'm in on day 1 without blinking.  I love that series because it just drips with atmosphere and story.  It also doesn't drag 14.99 out of my pocket each month. 

Wow Hep!  Interestingly enough, I'm pretty much on the exact same page with you here, for almost identical reasons.

DAOC - was my first real MMORPG experience (though I dabbled with EQ briefly) with a real guild, joining the Wanderers which kind of changed my life in some ways.   I went back to the game multiple times and it will probably always have a unique spot in my heart.  I still think it was pretty remarkable for its time, with some of the most diverse mix of class concepts of any game (theurgist anyone?) and 3 factions duking it out in crazy PvP warfare (turn off your capes everyone!).

SB - I always say it had the best and most ambitious (for its time) overall game concept/design of any MMORPG.  Not just in giving us a full sandbox world to play in, but all the mechanics as well.  And I loved the class/skill system, as well as the customizable interface that let you do things like make a button for any skill you had, resize it and plop it anywhere on the screen you wanted - all without any special "mods" or whatever.  So many small things ahead of its time, but sadly a technical nightmare.  I have so many specific memories attached to SB, like running the desert to find our first city spot, the placement of the city, our first bane, our city falling, our elven gank squad.  Damn I miss that game.  I still say if anyone could ever rebuild SB but steal the evolving PvE and some of the crafting stuff YK mentioned from Horizons, it would be the perfect sandbox world game.

CoH - same thing for me.  Loved it, and loved all the things they did to make grouping fast and easy, but eventually got burned out.
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« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2011, 07:22:19 PM »

I miss DAoC too.  I played Ultima Online first but DAoC was also my first guild experience.  I miss powerleveling with the giant snow crabs.
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« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2011, 08:22:51 PM »

My problem with MMO's boils down to the fact that either I have more time/interest in the game and out level the people I'm playing with (or get burned out), or the people I'm playing with have more time/interest and out level (or get burned out) me.

See also a new game comes out that i want to play.

The only 'MMO' to hold my attention for any length of time was Multiplayer Battletech. Which didn't really qualify as an MMO to be honest. I did play it for around 6 years (with some breaks) and made some life long friends. Jump Gate is the only other one I played a lot. Didn't socialize with anyone in that game though, was just fun to play.

Basically, to get me to play another MMO for more than a couple of weeks is going to require solid gameplay, a setting I'm interested in, some kind of change in the overall world that I can help effect, and if PvP is involved it has to be skill based.
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« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2011, 08:40:59 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on January 07, 2011, 07:22:19 PM

I miss DAoC too.  I played Ultima Online first but DAoC was also my first guild experience.  I miss powerleveling with the giant snow crabs.

Yeah, I loved DAoC and them crabbies too - those smaller ones in the Midgard dungeon near the portal to the shrouded Islses were also great for lower levels.  slywink I played it for about 2-1/2 years and my biggest beef with it was the background stories weren't great -even silly- and leveling a craft at higher levels was completely insane. Trials of Atlantis killed the game for me though, since the quest loot pwn'd anything a player could craft.

[Edit] BTW What's wrong with Mythic, can't they see DAoC would be an excellent game to be offered F2P? They just had 60% of their staff cut, so I can't imagine they have much resources to add content for paying customers. Oh yeah wait....they're owned by EA aren't they.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2011, 09:08:38 PM »

Quote from: The Rocketman on January 06, 2011, 11:59:14 AM

So, for me it's simple: make grouping INFINITELY easy to do, and reward it heavily. How? Keep it 'gamey'. Show which people are doing the quests you want to do, and make joining them as simple as clicking a button which instantly zaps you towards them. And make it so that people are encouraged to help others, by giving them some loot and experience as well, even if you don't have the quest. Often I'd post on LFG that I was ready for hire (read: for free), so if anyone needed help they could PM me. I almost never got a reaction.
Also, organise your quests so that anyone can jump in at any time, and that downtime is reduced to a minimum.

Basically, treat your quests and grouping options the same as a multiplayer lobby.


This is one of the reasons I was excited about that new Ultima MMORPG that eventually got canned.  They were making a big thing about how easy it was going to be for casual players to just log in and jump right to where their friends were.
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rittchard
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« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2011, 09:59:39 PM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on January 07, 2011, 09:08:38 PM

Quote from: The Rocketman on January 06, 2011, 11:59:14 AM

So, for me it's simple: make grouping INFINITELY easy to do, and reward it heavily. How? Keep it 'gamey'. Show which people are doing the quests you want to do, and make joining them as simple as clicking a button which instantly zaps you towards them. And make it so that people are encouraged to help others, by giving them some loot and experience as well, even if you don't have the quest. Often I'd post on LFG that I was ready for hire (read: for free), so if anyone needed help they could PM me. I almost never got a reaction.
Also, organise your quests so that anyone can jump in at any time, and that downtime is reduced to a minimum.

Basically, treat your quests and grouping options the same as a multiplayer lobby.


This is one of the reasons I was excited about that new Ultima MMORPG that eventually got canned.  They were making a big thing about how easy it was going to be for casual players to just log in and jump right to where their friends were.

That was something that CoH/X did really well.  We had a great system for jumping out of an instance, porting someone over and getting them back in really quick. 

What I really loved was the Summon system in SB.  Not every class could do it and there were some limitations, so you certainly had to have people willing to make that choice in their builds.  But when you got it right, you could expedite grouping using Summon chains.  One time we did a random summon and some guy accepted, at which point we slaughtered him and hilarity ensued.
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« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2011, 11:02:19 PM »

Genuinely skill based combat that has absolutely nothing to do with levels, and is only influenced, not dominated, by player equipment. Until then forget it.
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« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2011, 11:29:48 PM »

I use to love me some MMORPGs but I am pretty much done with them now.  I started with EQ....it took me 3 months to level my paladin to lvl 20 and I loved every second of it.  Played it on and off for a couple of years until DAOC launched.  One new PC later I was rocking Midgard for 2+ years.  Sure I dabbled with those tree huggers and armored knights but the Middies were just too damn fun.  Game died with that Atlantis nonsense and my jaddiness in the genre started.  Tried all the rest until EQ2 came out and suddenly the magic was back.  However, like YK said the game changed into High Fantasy Wow and I got bored.  I was still trying all the new ones that came out and was constantly returning to my old favorites but something was just not pulling me in like it use to.  This wasn't a terrible thing as looking back at my EQ1 and DAOC times I realize that those games were just a little bit too life consuming.  You know it's time to quit when you are setting your alarm clock for off hours so you can camp some loot or capture enemy keeps with ease. It was some of the best gaming  I have ever done and I have no regrets but the time sink to enjoyment ratio was getting too high. Then I moved in with my GF at the time, we eventually got married, bought a house and now have  a 2 year old. As other have mentioned it is just not possible to effectively play these games i ntose circumstances.  Sure  icould play late night or whatever but it just doesn't seem worth the effort anymore.  Now that being said I still apply for betas and this new FTP movement has got me to reinstall LORTO and D&D but I rarely play them.  I just reinstalled Conan to try again for kicks (I played 4 hours one night, 1 hour the next weekend and uninstalled).  I think that knowing I can't go on a 8 hour gaming bender with these anymore just kinda makes me say why bother?  Sure the genre has become less group dependent and less timesinky but oddly enoughy those two things are what I use to enjoy.  

Wow that ended up being long winded....

Soo, what would make me play a MMORPG?

Retirement!  Of course by then you will be able to jack in and play them while you sleep!   ZZZZZZZZZZZ.....Ding!
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 11:33:56 PM by morlac » Logged

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