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Author Topic: What is it about KOTOR that I'm missing?  (Read 1101 times)
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Eel Snave
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« on: January 23, 2009, 07:00:28 PM »

In the "Favorite Games" thread, I see Knights Of The Old Republic an awful lot.  I'll be honest, I couldn't get into it at all.  I played for about four hours, expecting something to click, and nothing ever did.  What am I missing?
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« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2009, 07:03:42 PM »

I'm not sure, actually. I played through the game, but I never loved it or liked it. It was just... there. I guess we have different reasons for not appreciating it though. My biggest problem was that it just felt like D&D in space. The Star Wars setting was poorly implemented, with characters all ending up equipped with uber armor and looking like christmas trees, and pretty much every scenario involving slaughtering your way through dungeons (with the exception of the dialogue-based quests, which are the only reason I bothered to play through the thing). Jeremy Soule's music added insult to injury, feeling more like Oblivion or Morrowind than Star Wars.
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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2009, 07:06:06 PM »

Quote from: Eel Snave on January 23, 2009, 07:00:28 PM

In the "Favorite Games" thread, I see Knights Of The Old Republic an awful lot.  I'll be honest, I couldn't get into it at all.  I played for about four hours, expecting something to click, and nothing ever did.  What am I missing?

a really good game  Tongue


it actually took about a year of playing on and off before I really got into the game.  Once I finally made it past Taris (the beginning planet) I felt it got alot better.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2009, 07:07:58 PM »

Yep- get off of Taris before judging the game. 
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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2009, 07:14:02 PM »

I made it to close to the end (the final secret planet) and I was so bored by that point that I couldn't even bring myself to finish the storyline.  I think the turn-based combat system grew to be unbearable for me and I just didn't feel all that compelled to see the story through.  It just didn't really do anything for me.  So add me to the "what am I missing" group as I put countless hours into that game and just eventually got too bored to continue.  And I certainly tried.  Oh did I try.  I wish I could bring myself to go back to finish it, but I've made a number of attempts and just can't seem to do it.   
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« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2009, 07:15:21 PM »

I'm right there with you. I really want to like this game but I have started it several times and the farthest I got was Tatooine. This is after you get Jedi powers, so I really did give it a shot. The whole thing just felt very repetitive in that you would meet someone who would trigger you to go into some dungeon-type area where you would fight through a lot of enemies until you retrieved something and then come back. The light/dark choices you could make added some fun, but it was a small part of the game.

I also guess I didn't really grasp the right way to do the combat, because every once in a while I run into a boss-type character and kind of fumble my way through beating him/her. Having combat just keep going while you thought about what special power should be used by one of your 3 different characters got a little frantic, and I didn't feel like I had a good understanding of what worked and what didn't work (and I think you could pause combat, but that didn't seem to help me much). I probably would have enjoyed it a lot more as an ARPG.

But I still have the game and I may try again some time...
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« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2009, 07:19:38 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on January 23, 2009, 07:07:58 PM

Yep- get off of Taris before judging the game. 

Yup, I couldn't agree more. And it's not just getting off of Taris, because until you actually become a Jedi you really haven't experienced what the game has to offer. I do think there's a fairly steep learning curve to it for those that aren't fans or frequent players of RPG's. Hell, even for those that are, unless you really want to dig into the depths of a D20 based RPG it's hard to fully realize all that KotOR has to offer. I think that's why so many are turned off by it's combat, whereas for me the game represents the apex of RPG style fighting. The story is the clincher and worth the price of admission IMO; by far one of the best Star Wars stories I've ever watched, read or participated in.  slywinkthumbsup
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« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2009, 07:22:47 PM »

I never tried it because it's an RPG and the only one I have ever finished is Final Fantasy Adventure on the GameBoy.  Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go convince myself to play the original Baldur's Gate...
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« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2009, 07:23:58 PM »

I don't know, it just clicked for me. It definitely starts out slow like mentioned, and the game didn't take off until after getting Jedi powers. But I got sucked in by the story and by the characters, which is probably one of the first time the characters in a game really meant something to me. And I thought the fighting with a lightsaber looker absolutely gorgeous, even though you aren't doing anything. I felt like I was watching a movie, but the characters did whatever I wanted.

Now, I'm in the camp that just couldn't get into Mass Effect. I really, really tried, and just could not do it.
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« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2009, 07:25:54 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on January 23, 2009, 07:22:47 PM

I never tried it because it's an RPG and the only one I have ever finished is Final Fantasy Adventure on the GameBoy.  Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go convince myself to play the original Baldur's Gate...

Hey!  Someone else remembers that game!  I love FFA!
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kronovan
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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2009, 07:38:32 PM »

Quote from: msteelers on January 23, 2009, 07:23:58 PM

Now, I'm in the camp that just couldn't get into Mass Effect. I really, really tried, and just could not do it.

IMO one of the keys to making them more enjoyable, at least during combat, is to pause the action once in a while and issue commands. Mass Effect is a bit more forgiving than KotOR in that regard as the automated AI is just that much better. That said, I've watched friends play ME where they've never paused to have an Infiltrator use sabotage or debuff talents or never instructed a Vanguard to use biotics, while at the same time the game failed to do the same. There's an element in both games where you're rewarded if you take control; more successful battles being the most obvious payoff.
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2009, 08:04:43 PM »

it was bioware's last good game so far. The story was fairly compelling. I would say by today's standards it's pretty dated though. Also the plot twist was a big wtf. I think they did capture the star wars feel fairly well. oh, also it didnt include 20 elevators every 10 feet that would take a minute to load.

for a pure rpg it's really not all that great though. there wasn't a lot of extra stuff you could do. only a few characters stood out. best game ever? eh, hardly. good for it's time, sure.
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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2009, 08:15:52 PM »

Quote from: jersoc on January 23, 2009, 08:04:43 PM

it was bioware's last good game so far. The story was fairly compelling. I would say by today's standards it's pretty dated though. Also the plot twist was a big wtf. I think they did capture the star wars feel fairly well. oh, also it didnt include 20 elevators every 10 feet that would take a minute to load.

for a pure rpg it's really not all that great though. there wasn't a lot of extra stuff you could do. only a few characters stood out. best game ever? eh, hardly. good for it's time, sure.

Spoiler for Hiden:
The plot twist pushed the game from good to phenomenal, IMO.  Just talking about it is a spoiler, though.
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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2009, 08:21:20 PM »

Quote from: Eel Snave on January 23, 2009, 07:25:54 PM

Quote from: Isgrimnur on January 23, 2009, 07:22:47 PM

I never tried it because it's an RPG and the only one I have ever finished is Final Fantasy Adventure on the GameBoy.  Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go convince myself to play the original Baldur's Gate...
Hey!  Someone else remembers that game!  I love FFA!

I didn't realize that it was the start of a non-FF series:

Final Fantasy Adventure: Game Boy
Secret of Mana : Super Nintendo
Seiken Densetsu 3 : Super Famicom
Legend of Mana : PlayStation
Sword of Mana : Game Boy Advance
Children of Mana : Nintendo DS
Friends of Mana : Mobile phone
Dawn of Mana : PlayStation 2
Heroes of Mana : Nintendo DS

But then, I only had the original Gameboy and the PS2 (for a short while).
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kronovan
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« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2009, 08:44:48 PM »

Quote from: jersoc on January 23, 2009, 08:04:43 PM

for a pure rpg it's really not all that great though. there wasn't a lot of extra stuff you could do. only a few characters stood out. best game ever? eh, hardly. good for it's time, sure.

Huh...did you play the same game as me? KotOR was a full blown D20 RPG complete with a skills matrix, feats matrix, powers matrix, customizable attributes and different classes. It's true it didn't have all of the depth of WotC's Star Wars D20 tabletop, but it still is one of the best implementations of D20 in any video game to date. I mean WTF did you play the game with auto-leveling on or something!?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 09:46:20 PM by kronovan » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2009, 09:02:16 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on January 23, 2009, 07:14:02 PM

I made it to close to the end (the final secret planet) and I was so bored by that point that I couldn't even bring myself to finish the storyline.  I think the turn-based combat system grew to be unbearable for me and I just didn't feel all that compelled to see the story through.  It just didn't really do anything for me.  So add me to the "what am I missing" group as I put countless hours into that game and just eventually got too bored to continue.  And I certainly tried.  Oh did I try.  I wish I could bring myself to go back to finish it, but I've made a number of attempts and just can't seem to do it.   

Pete, you are dead to me.  Now go back to whacking gangsters you simple minded fool.  icon_wink

I won't even try and describe why I love KOTOR.  I think everyone here knows why I love it so.  I will say this.  To this day, I am still utterly disappointed that I will not be able to "live" a KOTOR 3.  A s-i-n-g-l-e  p-l-a-y-e-r KOTOR 3.
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« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2009, 09:07:24 PM »

Quote from: Starshifter on January 23, 2009, 09:02:16 PM

Quote from: PeteRock on January 23, 2009, 07:14:02 PM

I made it to close to the end (the final secret planet) and I was so bored by that point that I couldn't even bring myself to finish the storyline.  I think the turn-based combat system grew to be unbearable for me and I just didn't feel all that compelled to see the story through.  It just didn't really do anything for me.  So add me to the "what am I missing" group as I put countless hours into that game and just eventually got too bored to continue.  And I certainly tried.  Oh did I try.  I wish I could bring myself to go back to finish it, but I've made a number of attempts and just can't seem to do it.   

Pete, you are dead to me.  Now go back to whacking gangsters you simple minded fool.  icon_wink

I had wondered where you were.  Either playing Figure Skating 2k9 or watching Emergency on DVD.  KOTOR certainly had its moments, but overall it just got boring for me.  After all, it's no Bullet Witch.   icon_twisted
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« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2009, 09:19:11 PM »

Quote from: Eel Snave on January 23, 2009, 07:00:28 PM

In the "Favorite Games" thread, I see Knights Of The Old Republic an awful lot.  I'll be honest, I couldn't get into it at all.  I played for about four hours, expecting something to click, and nothing ever did.  What am I missing?

Some games just don't click for some people.  I thought the game was great fun to play.  I found the combat great fun, the story compelling, the graphics good, and the voice acting great. 

I don't think there is anything you are missing, it just doesn't click for you. 


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« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2009, 09:55:40 PM »

Quote from: Eel Snave on January 23, 2009, 07:00:28 PM

In the "Favorite Games" thread, I see Knights Of The Old Republic an awful lot.  I'll be honest, I couldn't get into it at all.  I played for about four hours, expecting something to click, and nothing ever did.  What am I missing?
Got me... I rarely finish RPGs (I think I've completed maybe 5 in the past decade), but KOTOR was one of them despite a very slow start.

But I've never "gotten" the GTA or MGS series, so there ya go smile
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« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2009, 10:01:47 PM »

Quote from: farley2k on January 23, 2009, 09:19:11 PM

Quote from: Eel Snave on January 23, 2009, 07:00:28 PM

In the "Favorite Games" thread, I see Knights Of The Old Republic an awful lot.  I'll be honest, I couldn't get into it at all.  I played for about four hours, expecting something to click, and nothing ever did.  What am I missing?

Some games just don't click for some people.  I thought the game was great fun to play.  I found the combat great fun, the story compelling, the graphics good, and the voice acting great. 

I don't think there is anything you are missing, it just doesn't click for you. 




That's how I would view it as well.  There is no game that works for everyone, for a variety of reasons.  Maybe it has gameplay mechanics that you are sick of at that moment, maybe you just aren't into that kind of game at the time, maybe the way they tell the story doesn't work for you.  There are games I disliked when I first got them but later found quite compelling, so sometimes it's just the moment you are in.

A lot of people, including me, find KOTOR to be one of those hobby defining games.  There are games many others would put in that category that I didn't like.  There's no reason why we have to interpret that to mean someone is right and someone is wrong.
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« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2009, 10:09:25 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on January 23, 2009, 07:14:02 PM

  I think the turn-based combat system grew to be unbearable for me

I don't even notice the turn based combat.  aside from the game pausing when I see an enemy or a team member goes down (Bastila goes down alot  icon_twisted) the game doesn't pause.  I think you can even turn those couple of options off.
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« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2009, 10:46:55 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on January 23, 2009, 10:09:25 PM

Quote from: PeteRock on January 23, 2009, 07:14:02 PM

  I think the turn-based combat system grew to be unbearable for me

I don't even notice the turn based combat.  aside from the game pausing when I see an enemy or a team member goes down (Bastila goes down alot  icon_twisted) the game doesn't pause.  I think you can even turn those couple of options off.

But even if you turn off the pausing system, it's still turn-based.  You may be able to key up attacks in real-time, but the overally fighting system is fake real-time as you attack, virtual dice roll to determine a hit or a miss, then you wait for the enemy to attack, virtual dice roll, and then you start it all over again, taking turns like dignified duelers in jolly old England. 
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« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2009, 10:50:45 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on January 23, 2009, 08:15:52 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
The plot twist pushed the game from good to phenomenal, IMO.  Just talking about it is a spoiler, though.

Spoiler for Hiden:
I didn't know there would be a plot twist, yet I knew exactly what it was about 15 minutes into the game. I think that's part of the reason I didn't like the game. The storytelling felt too simplistic due to the transparent twist. Good plot twists should always be hinted at early in the story through SUBTLE hints, but in KOTOR they were like sledgehammers.
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« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2009, 01:59:54 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on January 23, 2009, 10:50:45 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on January 23, 2009, 08:15:52 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
The plot twist pushed the game from good to phenomenal, IMO.  Just talking about it is a spoiler, though.

Spoiler for Hiden:
I didn't know there would be a plot twist, yet I knew exactly what it was about 15 minutes into the game. I think that's part of the reason I didn't like the game. The storytelling felt too simplistic due to the transparent twist. Good plot twists should always be hinted at early in the story through SUBTLE hints, but in KOTOR they were like sledgehammers.

Spoiler for Hiden:
yeah, the twist was pretty obvious but it was still cool.
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« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2009, 07:23:34 AM »

Quote from: Eel Snave on January 23, 2009, 07:00:28 PM

In the "Favorite Games" thread, I see Knights Of The Old Republic an awful lot.  I'll be honest, I couldn't get into it at all.  I played for about four hours, expecting something to click, and nothing ever did.  What am I missing?

The Bastilla nude code.

 eek
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