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Author Topic: Well, it's official now (360 elite)  (Read 7759 times)
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Brendan
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« Reply #80 on: March 28, 2007, 05:18:01 PM »

Quote from: Jancelot on March 28, 2007, 04:58:43 PM

Agreed on the terms and pricing of content.  The cost is the #1 barrier to me using this service more right now.  Secondly it's the egregrious limits on the usage regardless of who's enforcing it.  Just make a pricing scheme like Netflix.  I love the convenience but not the structure as is.

Agreed!  Unfortunately, the prevailing winds are against us.

I've constructed a form letter to use:

http://www.mpaa.org/AboutUsContactUs.asp

"Dear MPAA,

Why do you hate us?

signed,
your customers"
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« Reply #81 on: March 28, 2007, 05:30:32 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on March 28, 2007, 04:48:26 PM

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 04:38:43 PM

Quote from: Captain Caveman on March 28, 2007, 04:36:50 PM

Quote from: Brendan on March 28, 2007, 04:29:45 PM

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 04:28:01 PM

Why is the points system goofy? How else do you wanna pay for stuff? Surely you don't really wanna put your credit card number in every....single.....time you buy something.

With regards to the video quality, are you watching on an HDTV? The reason I ask is that the picture quality of the HD material on XBL is almost unanimously praised as being top tier.

I assume he means "1 point does not equal 1 unit of actual currency".

I'd also much prefer they allow you to specify exactly how many points you want to purchase. It's obvious they force you to choose in 500 increments because they know in a lot of cases people will be forced to buy more than the need, thereby causing them to spend them on other things they wouldn't have otherwised purchased.

Yeah, but is that really a bad thing? I don't know guys, everyone is different and thats cool, but to boycott it because of this??????? Eh, I don't know, I think that is nitpicky.

It's designed for everyone to always carry a balance. You can only buy points in denominations evenly divisible by 100, but the prices for items on Marketplace are in amounts evenly divisible by 80. There is almost no way you can ever zero out your balance, which is essentially free money for Microsoft.

It's not that big of deal in the sense that I seethe with rage over it, it just gives me the same feeling that I get when I walk in to GameStop and they try to sell me an opened copy of a game as new. I'm stuck with the greasy end of the stick.

Well, if you feel that way about it, I have to respect it. I just think at the end of the day, this is the smallest of small potatoes, and to lead you to wanna boycott the service over it seems like a bit of an overreaction, but again, everyone is different, so thats cool.
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IkeVandergraaf
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« Reply #82 on: March 28, 2007, 05:35:30 PM »

Well, obviously it's small potatoes jblank, but that's why they call it "nickel and diming".  Even if it's not a big deal $-wise, it's sleazy and shows a general disrespect for the customer.
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« Reply #83 on: March 28, 2007, 05:40:03 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on March 28, 2007, 05:35:30 PM

Well, obviously it's small potatoes jblank, but that's why they call it "nickel and diming".  Even if it's not a big deal $-wise, it's sleazy and shows a general disrespect for the customer.

Again though, how is this "disrespectful"? Sleazy? Somebody used to say that if you look hard enough, you can find fault with anything, but it seems to me that maybe in this instance, the folks with a problem on the points thing, are looking too hard.

Just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt, but calling it disrespectful? I don't know guys.
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« Reply #84 on: March 28, 2007, 05:46:37 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on March 28, 2007, 05:35:30 PM

Well, obviously it's small potatoes jblank, but that's why they call it "nickel and diming".  Even if it's not a big deal $-wise, it's sleazy and shows a general disrespect for the customer.

Speaking for myself, there's only a few customers I actively disrespect.  I'm positive to neutral about everyone else.

You - I haven't made up my mind about.




(Just kidding!)
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wonderpug
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« Reply #85 on: March 28, 2007, 06:05:21 PM »

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 05:40:03 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on March 28, 2007, 05:35:30 PM

Well, obviously it's small potatoes jblank, but that's why they call it "nickel and diming".  Even if it's not a big deal $-wise, it's sleazy and shows a general disrespect for the customer.

Again though, how is this "disrespectful"? Sleazy? Somebody used to say that if you look hard enough, you can find fault with anything, but it seems to me that maybe in this instance, the folks with a problem on the points thing, are looking too hard.

Just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt, but calling it disrespectful? I don't know guys.

I don't know about disrespectful, but it is an intentional decision that gives them millions of dollars (assuming just a third of Live subscribers have just $1 sitting in point form) of interest free loans.

I'm curious why you think they don't offer point purchases in the same denominations as common purchase prices.  Too confusing for the user?  Too hard to implement?
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« Reply #86 on: March 28, 2007, 06:12:34 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on March 28, 2007, 06:05:21 PM

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 05:40:03 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on March 28, 2007, 05:35:30 PM

Well, obviously it's small potatoes jblank, but that's why they call it "nickel and diming".  Even if it's not a big deal $-wise, it's sleazy and shows a general disrespect for the customer.

Again though, how is this "disrespectful"? Sleazy? Somebody used to say that if you look hard enough, you can find fault with anything, but it seems to me that maybe in this instance, the folks with a problem on the points thing, are looking too hard.

Just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt, but calling it disrespectful? I don't know guys.


I don't know about disrespectful, but it is an intentional decision that gives them millions of dollars (assuming just a third of Live subscribers have just $1 sitting in point form) of interest free loans.

I'm curious why you think they don't offer point purchases in the same denominations as common purchase prices.  Too confusing for the user?  Too hard to implement?


or get rid of points and just do dollar amount purchases.  I think that you bring up a very good point about making money off of the interest.  Personally i have about 900 points just sitting there which is like $10.  Say they have 500,000 users with an average of $5 in points (eveyone avg. together and this is probably low) that would be $2.5 million just sitting around.  If you get a 4%  return you would make $100,000 in profits.  Just the math of it... 

As far as it affecting the new systems...well they are designed for those people who want the space to download things which means that they will be spending more on points.  I don't like or dislike the point system, but I also don't think I will spend the extra for a new system because I don't download that much.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 06:14:33 PM by papasmurff » Logged

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IkeVandergraaf
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« Reply #87 on: March 28, 2007, 06:21:36 PM »

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 05:40:03 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on March 28, 2007, 05:35:30 PM

Well, obviously it's small potatoes jblank, but that's why they call it "nickel and diming".  Even if it's not a big deal $-wise, it's sleazy and shows a general disrespect for the customer.

Again though, how is this "disrespectful"? Sleazy? Somebody used to say that if you look hard enough, you can find fault with anything, but it seems to me that maybe in this instance, the folks with a problem on the points thing, are looking too hard.

Just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt, but calling it disrespectful? I don't know guys.

Because there's no good reason to do it except to squeeze every last bit of profit out of the customer they possibly can.  Paying $5 for a $5 game is one thing.  It's sleazy and disrespectful to charge $6 for a $5 game and $1 of credit just because you can. 
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« Reply #88 on: March 28, 2007, 06:29:57 PM »

Here are some more 'fun facts' about this new system and 120GB drive:

http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/03/microsoft_data_.html

Quote
* You can only move data from the 20GB Hard Disk to the 120 GB Hard Disk. Transferring data in the other direction, or any other combination, is not possible.
* Any data stored on the 120 GB hard disk will be automatically deleted.
* Any data stored on the 20 GB hard disk will be automatically deleted after it is moved over.
* You cannot put the data from two or more 20 GB hard disks onto one 120 GB hard disk. If you attempt to move multiple drives, only the last one you move will be stored.
* Once you move the data over, it cannot be placed back on the original hard disk.

 icon_lol

Can it get much worse?
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« Reply #89 on: March 28, 2007, 06:31:24 PM »

I know my bank card dings me for purchases under something like $7.00.  So I personally don't mind points.
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Brendan
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« Reply #90 on: March 28, 2007, 06:32:51 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on March 28, 2007, 06:29:57 PM

Here are some more 'fun facts' about this new system and 120GB drive:

Quote
* You can only move data from the 20GB Hard Disk to the 120 GB Hard Disk. Transferring data in the other direction, or any other combination, is not possible.
* Any data stored on the 120 GB hard disk will be automatically deleted.
* Any data stored on the 20 GB hard disk will be automatically deleted after it is moved over.
* You cannot put the data from two or more 20 GB hard disks onto one 120 GB hard disk. If you attempt to move multiple drives, only the last one you move will be stored.
* Once you move the data over, it cannot be placed back on the original hard disk.

 icon_lol

Can it get much worse?

I look forward to you complaining about this when you purchase an Elite in two months.  "Wow - M$ is ruined!  All those customers who want to transfer 120gb of data onto a 20gb drive are going to buy the VASTLY SUPERIOR PS-triple!  HARHAR!"
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« Reply #91 on: March 28, 2007, 06:33:14 PM »

Quote from: Arkon on March 28, 2007, 06:31:24 PM

I know my bank card dings me for purchases under something like $7.00.  So I personally don't mind points.

Seriously? Switch to a different bank.
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« Reply #92 on: March 28, 2007, 06:34:40 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on March 28, 2007, 06:33:14 PM

Quote from: Arkon on March 28, 2007, 06:31:24 PM

I know my bank card dings me for purchases under something like $7.00.  So I personally don't mind points.

Seriously? Switch to a different bank.

Agreed.  Hell, I use my card every morning just to buy a $1.25 cup of coffee. 
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Hetz
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« Reply #93 on: March 28, 2007, 06:37:24 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on March 28, 2007, 06:32:51 PM

Quote from: Hetz on March 28, 2007, 06:29:57 PM

Here are some more 'fun facts' about this new system and 120GB drive:

Quote
* You can only move data from the 20GB Hard Disk to the 120 GB Hard Disk. Transferring data in the other direction, or any other combination, is not possible.
* Any data stored on the 120 GB hard disk will be automatically deleted.
* Any data stored on the 20 GB hard disk will be automatically deleted after it is moved over.
* You cannot put the data from two or more 20 GB hard disks onto one 120 GB hard disk. If you attempt to move multiple drives, only the last one you move will be stored.
* Once you move the data over, it cannot be placed back on the original hard disk.

 icon_lol

Can it get much worse?

I look forward to you complaining about this when you purchase an Elite in two months.  "Wow - M$ is ruined!  All those customers who want to transfer 120gb of data onto a 20gb drive are going to buy the VASTLY SUPERIOR PS-triple!  HARHAR!"

 icon_lol

There is no way in hell I would buy one of the Elites, even if my 360 goes belly up. It's a total ripoff.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 06:39:43 PM by Hetz » Logged

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« Reply #94 on: March 28, 2007, 06:37:52 PM »

Quote
* You can only move data from the 20GB Hard Disk to the 120 GB Hard Disk. Transferring data in the other direction, or any other combination, is not possible.
* Any data stored on the 120 GB hard disk will be automatically deleted.
* Any data stored on the 20 GB hard disk will be automatically deleted after it is moved over.
* You cannot put the data from two or more 20 GB hard disks onto one 120 GB hard disk. If you attempt to move multiple drives, only the last one you move will be stored.
* Once you move the data over, it cannot be placed back on the original hard disk.


Er, is this really that big of a deal?  Who has more than one hard drive?  Why would you want to move it back? etc.  All I'll eventually want to do is move the data to a new hard drive.
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« Reply #95 on: March 28, 2007, 06:38:28 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on March 28, 2007, 06:37:24 PM

There is no way in hell I would buy one of the Elites, even if my 360 goes belly up. It's a total ripoff.

Ruined!  PS-triple foreva'!
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« Reply #96 on: March 28, 2007, 06:40:35 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on March 28, 2007, 06:33:14 PM

Quote from: Arkon on March 28, 2007, 06:31:24 PM

I know my bank card dings me for purchases under something like $7.00.  So I personally don't mind points.

Seriously? Switch to a different bank.

I never make purchases under $10 with my bank card unless it is as a debit transaction which doesn't ding me, it is credit transactions which do (which is what the MS transaction is).  I have a wonderful bank, this isn't something worth switching over.  Was just trying to point out that for me at least.. buying points is easier.
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« Reply #97 on: March 28, 2007, 06:41:06 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on March 28, 2007, 06:38:28 PM

Quote from: Hetz on March 28, 2007, 06:37:24 PM

There is no way in hell I would buy one of the Elites, even if my 360 goes belly up. It's a total ripoff.

Ruined!  PS-triple foreva'!

You know I was thinking about keeping my PS3 and saying to hell with MS anyway and selling my 360 before the next update decides to brick my system. Do you know if the Spring update includes the "brick every 40th system" code in it?

 I'm still on the fence about it though.  icon_confused
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« Reply #98 on: March 28, 2007, 06:41:53 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on March 28, 2007, 06:38:28 PM

Quote from: Hetz on March 28, 2007, 06:37:24 PM

There is no way in hell I would buy one of the Elites, even if my 360 goes belly up. It's a total ripoff.

Ruined!  PS-triple foreva'!

Seriously....stop trying to get into a 360 v. PS3 arguement  One comment, ok whatever, but twice, you are just asking for shit to start.
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« Reply #99 on: March 28, 2007, 06:52:55 PM »

Quote from: Arkon on March 28, 2007, 06:40:35 PM

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on March 28, 2007, 06:33:14 PM

Quote from: Arkon on March 28, 2007, 06:31:24 PM

I know my bank card dings me for purchases under something like $7.00.  So I personally don't mind points.

Seriously? Switch to a different bank.

I never make purchases under $10 with my bank card unless it is as a debit transaction which doesn't ding me, it is credit transactions which do (which is what the MS transaction is).  I have a wonderful bank, this isn't something worth switching over.  Was just trying to point out that for me at least.. buying points is easier.

I've never heard of dinging you for that.  If anything, the bank should encourage you to make tiny CC transactions since they typically charge the vendor a flat rate plus a percentage--ten $1 transactions is going to bring them more than one $10 transaction.  That's why small convenience stores and restaurants have a $10 minimum, they don't want all the profit from the sale going directly to the running the CC terminal.
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« Reply #100 on: March 28, 2007, 07:02:19 PM »

Quote from: Jancelot on March 28, 2007, 06:37:52 PM

Quote
* You can only move data from the 20GB Hard Disk to the 120 GB Hard Disk. Transferring data in the other direction, or any other combination, is not possible.
* Any data stored on the 120 GB hard disk will be automatically deleted.
* Any data stored on the 20 GB hard disk will be automatically deleted after it is moved over.
* You cannot put the data from two or more 20 GB hard disks onto one 120 GB hard disk. If you attempt to move multiple drives, only the last one you move will be stored.
* Once you move the data over, it cannot be placed back on the original hard disk.


Er, is this really that big of a deal?  Who has more than one hard drive?

People that listened to MS when the Live Marketplace went up.

Quote
This wouldn't be so bad had Microsoft's Aaron Greenberg not told gamers at the launch of Xbox Video Marketplace to go out and buy two drives:

At this point we’re not ready yet to roll out a bigger hard drive. I can tell you what people tell me they do to get around this. What they do is they put their Live account on a memory unit and then they have one hard drive that they put their games or related content on, and then they have another drive that they put their movies and TV on.

Nice.
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« Reply #101 on: March 28, 2007, 07:05:49 PM »

The way around this is start the downloads again with the 120gig HD.  Do it some couple of nights and let it re-download.  Go to your account and hit download history and there is everything you have ever downloaded.  Personally I have only downloaded 123 things which are mostly game demos and trailers of games that are already out....  not that hard to go through the list and get what you want back.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 07:07:20 PM by papasmurff » Logged

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« Reply #102 on: March 28, 2007, 07:07:15 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on March 28, 2007, 06:41:06 PM

Quote from: Brendan on March 28, 2007, 06:38:28 PM

Quote from: Hetz on March 28, 2007, 06:37:24 PM

There is no way in hell I would buy one of the Elites, even if my 360 goes belly up. It's a total ripoff.

Ruined!  PS-triple foreva'!

You know I was thinking about keeping my PS3 and saying to hell with MS anyway and selling my 360 before the next update decides to brick my system. Do you know if the Spring update includes the "brick every 40th system" code in it?

 I'm still on the fence about it though.  icon_confused

Fyi-I think you and Brendan  should go to neutral corners.  No need to make this personal
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NiM$
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« Reply #103 on: March 28, 2007, 07:27:07 PM »

I'd just like to clarify something.  Despite claims to the contrary (ATB, Calvin), I am not at all interested in this version of the XBox.

It is totally useless.  That's right.  If I call it useless, that's saying something.

gellar
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« Reply #104 on: March 28, 2007, 07:31:19 PM »

Quote from: gellar on March 28, 2007, 07:27:07 PM

I'd just like to clarify something.  Despite claims to the contrary (ATB, Calvin), I am not at all interested in this version of the XBox.

It is totally useless.  That's right.  If I call it useless, that's saying something.

gellar

Good lord. Thats insane. Awesome and a rare sign of maturity, but insane. My world is spinning.
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« Reply #105 on: March 28, 2007, 07:46:48 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on March 28, 2007, 06:05:21 PM

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 05:40:03 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on March 28, 2007, 05:35:30 PM

Well, obviously it's small potatoes jblank, but that's why they call it "nickel and diming".  Even if it's not a big deal $-wise, it's sleazy and shows a general disrespect for the customer.

Again though, how is this "disrespectful"? Sleazy? Somebody used to say that if you look hard enough, you can find fault with anything, but it seems to me that maybe in this instance, the folks with a problem on the points thing, are looking too hard.

Just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt, but calling it disrespectful? I don't know guys.

I don't know about disrespectful, but it is an intentional decision that gives them millions of dollars (assuming just a third of Live subscribers have just $1 sitting in point form) of interest free loans.

I'm curious why you think they don't offer point purchases in the same denominations as common purchase prices.  Too confusing for the user?  Too hard to implement?

Honestly, I don't think about it. It is what it is, it's fair in my mind, and I support it. If I felt otherwise, I wouldn't support it. They gotta make a buck somewhere so if they recoup some money off of purely optional purchases, it's ok to me.
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« Reply #106 on: March 28, 2007, 07:49:02 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on March 28, 2007, 06:21:36 PM

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 05:40:03 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on March 28, 2007, 05:35:30 PM

Well, obviously it's small potatoes jblank, but that's why they call it "nickel and diming".  Even if it's not a big deal $-wise, it's sleazy and shows a general disrespect for the customer.

Again though, how is this "disrespectful"? Sleazy? Somebody used to say that if you look hard enough, you can find fault with anything, but it seems to me that maybe in this instance, the folks with a problem on the points thing, are looking too hard.

Just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt, but calling it disrespectful? I don't know guys.

Because there's no good reason to do it except to squeeze every last bit of profit out of the customer they possibly can.  Paying $5 for a $5 game is one thing.  It's sleazy and disrespectful to charge $6 for a $5 game and $1 of credit just because you can. 

Then don't buy them Ike. What do you want me to say here man? If it bothers you this much, don't support it. I mean, what are you lookin' for here? It's a pay to play system, they have a structure in place, either you don't mind it and support it, don't like it but support it anyway, or don't support it at all. Don't complain to me, I can't do anything about it. icon_lol
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« Reply #107 on: March 28, 2007, 07:49:51 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on March 28, 2007, 06:29:57 PM

Here are some more 'fun facts' about this new system and 120GB drive:

http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/03/microsoft_data_.html

Quote
* You can only move data from the 20GB Hard Disk to the 120 GB Hard Disk. Transferring data in the other direction, or any other combination, is not possible.
* Any data stored on the 120 GB hard disk will be automatically deleted.
* Any data stored on the 20 GB hard disk will be automatically deleted after it is moved over.
* You cannot put the data from two or more 20 GB hard disks onto one 120 GB hard disk. If you attempt to move multiple drives, only the last one you move will be stored.
* Once you move the data over, it cannot be placed back on the original hard disk.

 icon_lol

Can it get much worse?

Yes, they could be in Sony's shoes.
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« Reply #108 on: March 28, 2007, 07:51:22 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on March 28, 2007, 06:37:24 PM

Quote from: Brendan on March 28, 2007, 06:32:51 PM

Quote from: Hetz on March 28, 2007, 06:29:57 PM

Here are some more 'fun facts' about this new system and 120GB drive:

Quote
* You can only move data from the 20GB Hard Disk to the 120 GB Hard Disk. Transferring data in the other direction, or any other combination, is not possible.
* Any data stored on the 120 GB hard disk will be automatically deleted.
* Any data stored on the 20 GB hard disk will be automatically deleted after it is moved over.
* You cannot put the data from two or more 20 GB hard disks onto one 120 GB hard disk. If you attempt to move multiple drives, only the last one you move will be stored.
* Once you move the data over, it cannot be placed back on the original hard disk.

 icon_lol

Can it get much worse?

I look forward to you complaining about this when you purchase an Elite in two months.  "Wow - M$ is ruined!  All those customers who want to transfer 120gb of data onto a 20gb drive are going to buy the VASTLY SUPERIOR PS-triple!  HARHAR!"

 icon_lol

There is no way in hell I would buy one of the Elites, even if my 360 goes belly up. It's a total ripoff.

This from the guy that owns Oblivion on three different platforms.  icon_smile Tongue

5 bucks says you buy it in the first 30 days of release.
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« Reply #109 on: March 28, 2007, 07:55:03 PM »

Lets also try not to forget that this is the first video game console to bring this form of entertainment to us in such an accessible manner, MS is treading a lot of new water here and though the system may not be perfect, at least we have all that extra content to access if we want it. I'm sure when Sony's stuff starts surfacing, pricing and such will become more competetive.

As far as the 360 Elite system goes, you don't have to buy it, if you think it's a rip-off then stick to the premium. At least all the additional hardware is an option, something Sony can't say the same about. I'm still have like two months on my Costco return, think I'm gonna have to exchange it for an elite system.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 08:12:56 PM by Ridah » Logged

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« Reply #110 on: March 28, 2007, 08:01:01 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on March 28, 2007, 07:02:19 PM

Quote
This wouldn't be so bad had Microsoft's Aaron Greenberg not told gamers at the launch of Xbox Video Marketplace to go out and buy two drives:

At this point we’re not ready yet to roll out a bigger hard drive. I can tell you what people tell me they do to get around this. What they do is they put their Live account on a memory unit and then they have one hard drive that they put their games or related content on, and then they have another drive that they put their movies and TV on.

Nice.

Again.  How many people have 2 drives?  I still have plenty of space left on my 20GB.  Furthermore, as papasmurff advised, you can always just set it to redownload, no?  While it certainly would've been better if they had a larger HDD from the get-go, this seems like a non-issue.
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« Reply #111 on: March 28, 2007, 08:12:21 PM »

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 07:46:48 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on March 28, 2007, 06:05:21 PM

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 05:40:03 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on March 28, 2007, 05:35:30 PM

Well, obviously it's small potatoes jblank, but that's why they call it "nickel and diming".  Even if it's not a big deal $-wise, it's sleazy and shows a general disrespect for the customer.

Again though, how is this "disrespectful"? Sleazy? Somebody used to say that if you look hard enough, you can find fault with anything, but it seems to me that maybe in this instance, the folks with a problem on the points thing, are looking too hard.

Just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt, but calling it disrespectful? I don't know guys.

I don't know about disrespectful, but it is an intentional decision that gives them millions of dollars (assuming just a third of Live subscribers have just $1 sitting in point form) of interest free loans.

I'm curious why you think they don't offer point purchases in the same denominations as common purchase prices.  Too confusing for the user?  Too hard to implement?

Honestly, I don't think about it. It is what it is, it's fair in my mind, and I support it. If I felt otherwise, I wouldn't support it. They gotta make a buck somewhere so if they recoup some money off of purely optional purchases, it's ok to me.

But the "gotta make a buck somewhere" is in the purchase price itself.  You're paying them $5 or whatever for your game widget.  You're also giving them a $1 interest free loan because they set up the system to force you to have extra points laying around.  This is what Ike has a problem with, not the charge itself.  And I don't think he's looking for your sympathy, I think that, like in any conversation, he's just looking for some sign that you understand his point.

It's not like this is a new business practice, gift certificates do the same thing.  There's no reason they can't give you that last $1.45 on the card back in cash, but they don't so that you'll either throw away the card and give them the $1.45 for free, or buy something that costs more than $1.45 so you end up spending more than was on the card.

Whether or not it's an issue to you is one thing, but it's another to turn a blind eye to the idea that it's an intentional business practice.
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« Reply #112 on: March 28, 2007, 08:24:53 PM »

I understand him fine, I just think its much a'do about nothing, to the point where it's not even worth discussing........but anyway.

Come on now, this isn't as big a deal as you think. Most people end up using the points in the end, so really, why is this an issue? I always buy blocks in 2000 pt allotments (is that the second most amount) and just go from there. I don't buy points for one thing, I buy them to replenish and use and its entirely optional. Again, if this is make or break, don't buy the points. If quibbling over what did you say, a $1.45 is a big deal, then this definitely is something you should think twice about supporting.

What else can I say? icon_neutral
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 08:27:10 PM by jblank » Logged

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« Reply #113 on: March 28, 2007, 09:07:17 PM »

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 07:49:02 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on March 28, 2007, 06:21:36 PM

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 05:40:03 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on March 28, 2007, 05:35:30 PM

Well, obviously it's small potatoes jblank, but that's why they call it "nickel and diming".  Even if it's not a big deal $-wise, it's sleazy and shows a general disrespect for the customer.

Again though, how is this "disrespectful"? Sleazy? Somebody used to say that if you look hard enough, you can find fault with anything, but it seems to me that maybe in this instance, the folks with a problem on the points thing, are looking too hard.

Just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt, but calling it disrespectful? I don't know guys.

Because there's no good reason to do it except to squeeze every last bit of profit out of the customer they possibly can.  Paying $5 for a $5 game is one thing.  It's sleazy and disrespectful to charge $6 for a $5 game and $1 of credit just because you can. 

Then don't buy them Ike. What do you want me to say here man? If it bothers you this much, don't support it. I mean, what are you lookin' for here? It's a pay to play system, they have a structure in place, either you don't mind it and support it, don't like it but support it anyway, or don't support it at all. Don't complain to me, I can't do anything about it. icon_lol

I don't want you to do anything.  I want you to agree with me and be outraged!
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« Reply #114 on: March 28, 2007, 09:07:57 PM »

You know I like ya and all, and we agree 90% of the time, but this is one of the 10% times.  icon_wink
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« Reply #115 on: March 28, 2007, 09:10:23 PM »

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 08:24:53 PM

I understand him fine, I just think its much a'do about nothing, to the point where it's not even worth discussing........but anyway.

Come on now, this isn't as big a deal as you think. Most people end up using the points in the end, so really, why is this an issue? I always buy blocks in 2000 pt allotments (is that the second most amount) and just go from there. I don't buy points for one thing, I buy them to replenish and use and its entirely optional. Again, if this is make or break, don't buy the points. If quibbling over what did you say, a $1.45 is a big deal, then this definitely is something you should think twice about supporting.

It's a reasonable objection.  I really really hate gift cards that deduct a certain portion of the card every X days after some certain time period.  I'm sure the business guys were happy to have the system work this way; I don't know if there were globalization issues that made it additionally appealing (e.g. "If we price things in points, we don't have to worry about currency translation for each individual item, we only have to worry about it for the act of purchasing points.")
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« Reply #116 on: March 28, 2007, 09:12:06 PM »

Damn, I just suck today don't I?
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« Reply #117 on: March 28, 2007, 09:12:47 PM »

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 08:24:53 PM

I understand him fine, I just think its much a'do about nothing, to the point where it's not even worth discussing........but anyway.

Come on now, this isn't as big a deal as you think. Most people end up using the points in the end, so really, why is this an issue? I always buy blocks in 2000 pt allotments (is that the second most amount) and just go from there. I don't buy points for one thing, I buy them to replenish and use and its entirely optional. Again, if this is make or break, don't buy the points. If quibbling over what did you say, a $1.45 is a big deal, then this definitely is something you should think twice about supporting.

What else can I say? icon_neutral

To quote Wonderpug:

"Somewhere, just now, the guy who invented microtransactions let out a small maniacal giggle and twiddled his fingers with glee."

This guy must be giggling a lot today.

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« Reply #118 on: March 28, 2007, 09:14:58 PM »

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 09:12:06 PM

Damn, I just suck today don't I?

Heh - no, it's one of these issues that a lot of people won't care about because it doesn't particularly inconvenience them, but is clearly a boon to the company implementing it.  My particular beef with points is that because it's not a 1-1 ratio, you end up obfuscating the actual price of things.  Now, because you can get point cards at a discount (and because you can purchase them in other currencies), it's not that meaningful anyway, but it's still sort of irritating to have to do the math in my head.

At least there are no integrals involved.
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« Reply #119 on: March 28, 2007, 09:29:39 PM »

Quote from: gilgamex on March 28, 2007, 09:12:47 PM

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 08:24:53 PM

I understand him fine, I just think its much a'do about nothing, to the point where it's not even worth discussing........but anyway.

Come on now, this isn't as big a deal as you think. Most people end up using the points in the end, so really, why is this an issue? I always buy blocks in 2000 pt allotments (is that the second most amount) and just go from there. I don't buy points for one thing, I buy them to replenish and use and its entirely optional. Again, if this is make or break, don't buy the points. If quibbling over what did you say, a $1.45 is a big deal, then this definitely is something you should think twice about supporting.

What else can I say? icon_neutral

To quote Wonderpug:

"Somewhere, just now, the guy who invented microtransactions let out a small maniacal giggle and twiddled his fingers with glee."

This guy must be giggling a lot today.



Why, because I don't mind paying a couple of bucks to enjoy their products?   icon_neutral  icon_confused No offense but that's one of the strangest posts of the day. You guys act like spending $6.00 for 500 points is taking money out of your retirement or something. Sheesh. Roll Eyes
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