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Author Topic: Well, it's official now (360 elite)  (Read 7945 times)
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kronovan
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« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2007, 03:27:31 PM »

I don't care what new SKU Microsoft dumps on the market, just as long as it clears the way for a price drop in the Premium. If they keep prices where they currently are I'll gladly not own any 360. Personally there's absolutely no way I'd spend the extra $ for this.

Knowing Microsoft Canada, they'll double the additional $80 and try to justify it by throwing in a game that everyone knows costs them $10 to include. I fully expect this to debut on the CDN market with a $650 price tag. And no doubt Microsoft Canada Will jump up and down hollering hey it's cheaper than the PS3!
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« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2007, 03:28:26 PM »

I'm right there with you on being unhappy with the rental terms for movies.  The TV show stuff is just fine though since you own it. 

But I also expect that we're going to see some much larger game content coming down the pike before this generation is out.  They've got Live Arcade locked down on size, but I think we'll see some large scale expansions like Shivering Isles or even some full-fledged multi-gig games hitting the service and that's going to tear through 20 Gigs quick.
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« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2007, 03:28:38 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 03:18:11 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on March 28, 2007, 02:38:44 PM

Quote from: ATB on March 28, 2007, 02:29:05 PM

I'm sure you guys know that probably the biggest driver is their desire to ramp up the marketplace movie downloads/tv downloads.

Well, as Penny Arcade pointed out, then perhaps they should have subsidized the new HDD so it wasn't so expensive with the idea of making it up on marketplace downloads in the long run.  As is, I'm loathe to buy the 120 Gig drive at almost $200.00 and sticking with the 20 Gig drive severely hampers my desire for much of the marketplace content. 

First of all agree completely, second I don't think there are enough people like gellar to think this is a wise move, and finally (Although I seem to be the only person that is still harping on this), if they really want to ramp up the marketplace for movie downloads, make it competitive with every other rental service out there. The fact that people are renting and downloading movies from them for 4 dollars a pop that sometimes take 24 hours to download and they they only have 24 hours to watch or they lose it is so insanely insulting to consumers that can get 2 DVDs out at a time for 10 bucks from blockbuster and watch 8 or so of them in a month for twice that cost and spend as long as they damn well choose to watch them is just mind-boggling. The fact that MS doesn't recognize this flaw is equally mystifying. I wish more people were as annoyed about it as I am, because frankly I WANT to download and watch HD movies. I want to do it now, but I won't do it the way they have it set up.


I think MS hands are tied on this, Calvin.  The deal they have with the Movies Houses probably have this insane stipulation.
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« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2007, 03:31:44 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 03:18:11 PM

First of all agree completely, second I don't think there are enough people like gellar to think this is a wise move, and finally (Although I seem to be the only person that is still harping on this), if they really want to ramp up the marketplace for movie downloads, make it competitive with every other rental service out there. The fact that people are renting and downloading movies from them for 4 dollars a pop that sometimes take 24 hours to download and they they only have 24 hours to watch or they lose it is so insanely insulting to consumers that can get 2 DVDs out at a time for 10 bucks from blockbuster and watch 8 or so of them in a month for twice that cost and spend as long as they damn well choose to watch them is just mind-boggling. The fact that MS doesn't recognize this flaw is equally mystifying. I wish more people were as annoyed about it as I am, because frankly I WANT to download and watch HD movies. I want to do it now, but I won't do it the way they have it set up.

The competition is VOD in this case, not Blockbuster.

And the terms are actually "Watch it within 24 hours once you've started viewing it, but you can wait up to 14 days to start watching once it's downloaded."
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« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2007, 03:36:32 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on March 28, 2007, 03:28:26 PM

I'm right there with you on being unhappy with the rental terms for movies.  The TV show stuff is just fine though since you own it. 


The TV show stuff is fine (and some of it is in HD when its actually not in HD when you buy it as a season from a regular store, but the bottom line is that I can buy 30 episodes of CSI for 50 bucks or 28 episodes of Enterprise for 8 bucks but on live it costs me something like 100 and I have storage concerns and no physical medium. Thats a big problem for me with the TV downloads-I don't understand why there are no package deals.
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Calvin
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« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2007, 03:39:51 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on March 28, 2007, 03:31:44 PM

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 03:18:11 PM

First of all agree completely, second I don't think there are enough people like gellar to think this is a wise move, and finally (Although I seem to be the only person that is still harping on this), if they really want to ramp up the marketplace for movie downloads, make it competitive with every other rental service out there. The fact that people are renting and downloading movies from them for 4 dollars a pop that sometimes take 24 hours to download and they they only have 24 hours to watch or they lose it is so insanely insulting to consumers that can get 2 DVDs out at a time for 10 bucks from blockbuster and watch 8 or so of them in a month for twice that cost and spend as long as they damn well choose to watch them is just mind-boggling. The fact that MS doesn't recognize this flaw is equally mystifying. I wish more people were as annoyed about it as I am, because frankly I WANT to download and watch HD movies. I want to do it now, but I won't do it the way they have it set up.

The competition is VOD in this case, not Blockbuster.

And the terms are actually "Watch it within 24 hours once you've started viewing it, but you can wait up to 14 days to start watching once it's downloaded."

I know exactly what the terms are, and obfuscating the issue by stating the length you have to watch it is irrelevant to the conversation when the fact remains that you have a. a limited time to watch it (14 days), and b. you only have 24 hours to watch the thing you paid 5$ for if you start it for 1 minute and then have an emergency, or work, or life get in the way. There is no logical justification for it. Its a bad decision. Telling me I have 14 days to start doesn't change the inherent flaw in the system.

And the fact that VOD is the direct competition because its downloadble over the internet (or the new Comcast streaming database they are working on) applies only if you view the marketplace downloads in the vacuum of "internet downloading" The actual reality is that it competes with brick and mortar stores and the currently far superior and better value mail services.
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« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2007, 03:40:53 PM »

Quote from: Soulchilde on March 28, 2007, 03:28:38 PM

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 03:18:11 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on March 28, 2007, 02:38:44 PM

Quote from: ATB on March 28, 2007, 02:29:05 PM

I'm sure you guys know that probably the biggest driver is their desire to ramp up the marketplace movie downloads/tv downloads.

Well, as Penny Arcade pointed out, then perhaps they should have subsidized the new HDD so it wasn't so expensive with the idea of making it up on marketplace downloads in the long run.  As is, I'm loathe to buy the 120 Gig drive at almost $200.00 and sticking with the 20 Gig drive severely hampers my desire for much of the marketplace content. 

First of all agree completely, second I don't think there are enough people like gellar to think this is a wise move, and finally (Although I seem to be the only person that is still harping on this), if they really want to ramp up the marketplace for movie downloads, make it competitive with every other rental service out there. The fact that people are renting and downloading movies from them for 4 dollars a pop that sometimes take 24 hours to download and they they only have 24 hours to watch or they lose it is so insanely insulting to consumers that can get 2 DVDs out at a time for 10 bucks from blockbuster and watch 8 or so of them in a month for twice that cost and spend as long as they damn well choose to watch them is just mind-boggling. The fact that MS doesn't recognize this flaw is equally mystifying. I wish more people were as annoyed about it as I am, because frankly I WANT to download and watch HD movies. I want to do it now, but I won't do it the way they have it set up.


I think MS hands are tied on this, Calvin.  The deal they have with the Movies Houses probably have this insane stipulation.

I have been trying to read up on this and cannot find any intellectual property issues that indicate that this should be the case, whether the studios are demanding it or not. They certainly are not for In Demand type functions on televisions or on their DVDs.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2007, 03:42:47 PM »

TV is competitively priced IMO.  A standard 22 episode season will cost $44.00 which is close to the MSRP for most season DVD sets and cheaper than some.  You do miss out on the extras from the DVD set but that doesn't matter to everybody.  Storage is definitely a concern but that goes back to MS's decision to make the bigger HDD so expensive.  If I could get a HDD for cheap I might consider buying an entire season off of Live rather than getting DVDs. 

I'm not big on the increased price of the HD offerings but they don't have a lot of competition in that department yet from other sectors.

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Hetz
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« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2007, 03:45:01 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 03:40:53 PM

Quote from: Soulchilde on March 28, 2007, 03:28:38 PM

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 03:18:11 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on March 28, 2007, 02:38:44 PM

Quote from: ATB on March 28, 2007, 02:29:05 PM

I'm sure you guys know that probably the biggest driver is their desire to ramp up the marketplace movie downloads/tv downloads.

Well, as Penny Arcade pointed out, then perhaps they should have subsidized the new HDD so it wasn't so expensive with the idea of making it up on marketplace downloads in the long run.  As is, I'm loathe to buy the 120 Gig drive at almost $200.00 and sticking with the 20 Gig drive severely hampers my desire for much of the marketplace content. 

First of all agree completely, second I don't think there are enough people like gellar to think this is a wise move, and finally (Although I seem to be the only person that is still harping on this), if they really want to ramp up the marketplace for movie downloads, make it competitive with every other rental service out there. The fact that people are renting and downloading movies from them for 4 dollars a pop that sometimes take 24 hours to download and they they only have 24 hours to watch or they lose it is so insanely insulting to consumers that can get 2 DVDs out at a time for 10 bucks from blockbuster and watch 8 or so of them in a month for twice that cost and spend as long as they damn well choose to watch them is just mind-boggling. The fact that MS doesn't recognize this flaw is equally mystifying. I wish more people were as annoyed about it as I am, because frankly I WANT to download and watch HD movies. I want to do it now, but I won't do it the way they have it set up.


I think MS hands are tied on this, Calvin.  The deal they have with the Movies Houses probably have this insane stipulation.

I have been trying to read up on this and cannot find any intellectual property issues that indicate that this should be the case, whether the studios are demanding it or not. They certainly are not for In Demand type functions on televisions or on their DVDs.

Direct2Drive lets you buy movies and watch them as many times as you want. Same with ITunes. I don't know why Xbox Live doesn't let you BUY the movies and only lets you rent them. That is a big turn off for me. I like that I can buy TV shows, why not movies??
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« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2007, 03:45:32 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 03:40:53 PM

I have been trying to read up on this and cannot find any intellectual property issues that indicate that this should be the case, whether the studios are demanding it or not. They certainly are not for In Demand type functions on televisions or on their DVDs.

24 hour viewing period is pretty standard- while Amazon Unbox, Live Marketplace, and Cinema Now all vary drastically in how long the material is valid on your HDD prior to starting, they all stipulate 24 hours from the beginning of viewing.  This is surely studio mandated and the price of doing business with them and getting their content.  It's going to take someone with a lot of muscle to put the studios at a disadvantage and get more competitive terms but, alas, MS doesn't seem to be that entity. 
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« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2007, 03:46:23 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on March 28, 2007, 03:42:47 PM

TV is competitively priced IMO.  A standard 22 episode season will cost $44.00 which is close to the MSRP for most season DVD sets and cheaper than some.  You do miss out on the extras from the DVD set but that doesn't matter to everybody.  Storage is definitely a concern but that goes back to MS's decision to make the bigger HDD so expensive.  If I could get a HDD for cheap I might consider buying an entire season off of Live rather than getting DVDs. 

I'm not big on the increased price of the HD offerings but they don't have a lot of competition in that department yet from other sectors.


I thought the standard TV season was 26 Kevin? Also-I wonder what the estimated size of a season would be and how many would fit on the HDD. The advantage of the physical medium is its only limited by the amount of storage space in my apartment smile
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« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2007, 03:48:54 PM »

[ in reply to calvin's question on cost for Live video marketplace ]
Because they don't have the volume that retail enjoys. The delivery channels for getting box-sets onto store shelves is established; MS is dealing with bandwidth & licencing. The publishers aren't going to give deeper discounts on their IP if the product isn't moving fast and furious.

I'm glad they're cutting their teeth on this; I expect (just like Live) that bandwidth will expand as more consumption happens. Since I live in canada and this stuff isn't available here I have zippo need to get this.

No 65nm chip, no HD-DVD built in drive, and my TV doesn't have HDMI = not much incentive.

I have Vista Ultimate; I can stream music / video from my PC and not worry about this.


MS *SHOULD HAVE* released a 2.5" HDD enclosure so people can buy their own HDD's... and when they connect to the 360 there is a mandatory "reformat if tampered with" function in it. (it would make so much sense; get the cost of packaging / mfg). Now they're tied into another component industry that they used to justify in making the HDD optional only.  disgust If costs go down on 2.5" disks, the cost to make their product doesn't necessarily reflect it.
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« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2007, 03:48:57 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on March 28, 2007, 03:45:32 PM

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 03:40:53 PM

I have been trying to read up on this and cannot find any intellectual property issues that indicate that this should be the case, whether the studios are demanding it or not. They certainly are not for In Demand type functions on televisions or on their DVDs.

24 hour viewing period is pretty standard- while Amazon Unbox, Live Marketplace, and Cinema Now all vary drastically in how long the material is valid on your HDD prior to starting, they all stipulate 24 hours from the beginning of viewing.  This is surely studio mandated and the price of doing business with them and getting their content.  It's going to take someone with a lot of muscle to put the studios at a disadvantage and get more competitive terms but, alas, MS doesn't seem to be that entity. 

If that is true then my point that it is a massive failing and issue with the system remains, but my putting the onus on Microsoft is clearly incorrect. Brendan, this might change my opinion about Microsoft's role in this deal-however I have never seen any official announcement to this effect nor any conclusive or compelling intellectual property rationale for it. Still, I reserve the right to amend my comments if it is totally out of Microsoft's hands.
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« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2007, 03:49:56 PM »

Bill Gates can kiss my balls before I'll pay $180 for a 120 GB hard drive.  I just bought a 320 GB hard drive for my PC for $80.  If it means I can't download HD movies, so be it.

Listen, I bought my 360 as a game machine.  Not a movie machine.  Not a multimedia machine.  A game machine.
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« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2007, 03:51:06 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 03:46:23 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on March 28, 2007, 03:42:47 PM

TV is competitively priced IMO.  A standard 22 episode season will cost $44.00 which is close to the MSRP for most season DVD sets and cheaper than some.  You do miss out on the extras from the DVD set but that doesn't matter to everybody.  Storage is definitely a concern but that goes back to MS's decision to make the bigger HDD so expensive.  If I could get a HDD for cheap I might consider buying an entire season off of Live rather than getting DVDs. 

I'm not big on the increased price of the HD offerings but they don't have a lot of competition in that department yet from other sectors.


I thought the standard TV season was 26 Kevin? Also-I wonder what the estimated size of a season would be and how many would fit on the HDD. The advantage of the physical medium is its only limited by the amount of storage space in my apartment smile

22 is pretty much the standard now.  Some go a little higher (Heroes is getting 23 or 24 this season, 24 obviously gets 24, etc).  Most cable shows are 13 episodes and still manage to retail for what the major networks 22 episode season sets go for.  And HBO generally charges a huge premium on their box sets over what other DVD sets do and most of their shows are only 13 episodes too. 
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« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2007, 03:51:35 PM »

Just curious - has there been confirmation of the 65nm chip coming eventually or is that still in the land of rumors?  I don't remember reading anything about it.
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« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2007, 03:52:07 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on March 28, 2007, 03:45:01 PM

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 03:40:53 PM

Quote from: Soulchilde on March 28, 2007, 03:28:38 PM

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 03:18:11 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on March 28, 2007, 02:38:44 PM

Quote from: ATB on March 28, 2007, 02:29:05 PM

I'm sure you guys know that probably the biggest driver is their desire to ramp up the marketplace movie downloads/tv downloads.

Well, as Penny Arcade pointed out, then perhaps they should have subsidized the new HDD so it wasn't so expensive with the idea of making it up on marketplace downloads in the long run.  As is, I'm loathe to buy the 120 Gig drive at almost $200.00 and sticking with the 20 Gig drive severely hampers my desire for much of the marketplace content. 

First of all agree completely, second I don't think there are enough people like gellar to think this is a wise move, and finally (Although I seem to be the only person that is still harping on this), if they really want to ramp up the marketplace for movie downloads, make it competitive with every other rental service out there. The fact that people are renting and downloading movies from them for 4 dollars a pop that sometimes take 24 hours to download and they they only have 24 hours to watch or they lose it is so insanely insulting to consumers that can get 2 DVDs out at a time for 10 bucks from blockbuster and watch 8 or so of them in a month for twice that cost and spend as long as they damn well choose to watch them is just mind-boggling. The fact that MS doesn't recognize this flaw is equally mystifying. I wish more people were as annoyed about it as I am, because frankly I WANT to download and watch HD movies. I want to do it now, but I won't do it the way they have it set up.


I think MS hands are tied on this, Calvin.  The deal they have with the Movies Houses probably have this insane stipulation.

I have been trying to read up on this and cannot find any intellectual property issues that indicate that this should be the case, whether the studios are demanding it or not. They certainly are not for In Demand type functions on televisions or on their DVDs.

Direct2Drive lets you buy movies and watch them as many times as you want. Same with ITunes. I don't know why Xbox Live doesn't let you BUY the movies and only lets you rent them. That is a big turn off for me. I like that I can buy TV shows, why not movies??

Agreed, especially considering how secure its supposed to be.
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« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2007, 03:53:05 PM »

Quote from: kathode on March 28, 2007, 03:51:35 PM

Just curious - has there been confirmation of the 65nm chip coming eventually or is that still in the land of rumors?  I don't remember reading anything about it.

I'm pretty sure there was official confirmation that it was coming last year- initially reported for 1st quarter and then bumped back to at least second quarter. 

*EDIT*  Here was news when it was officially announced, including confirmation from MS. 
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 03:54:40 PM by Kevin Grey » Logged
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« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2007, 03:53:40 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on March 28, 2007, 03:51:06 PM

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 03:46:23 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on March 28, 2007, 03:42:47 PM

TV is competitively priced IMO.  A standard 22 episode season will cost $44.00 which is close to the MSRP for most season DVD sets and cheaper than some.  You do miss out on the extras from the DVD set but that doesn't matter to everybody.  Storage is definitely a concern but that goes back to MS's decision to make the bigger HDD so expensive.  If I could get a HDD for cheap I might consider buying an entire season off of Live rather than getting DVDs. 

I'm not big on the increased price of the HD offerings but they don't have a lot of competition in that department yet from other sectors.


I thought the standard TV season was 26 Kevin? Also-I wonder what the estimated size of a season would be and how many would fit on the HDD. The advantage of the physical medium is its only limited by the amount of storage space in my apartment smile

22 is pretty much the standard now.  Some go a little higher (Heroes is getting 23 or 24 this season, 24 obviously gets 24, etc).  Most cable shows are 13 episodes and still manage to retail for what the major networks 22 episode season sets go for.  And HBO generally charges a huge premium on their box sets over what other DVD sets do and most of their shows are only 13 episodes too. 

Man the good old days were all 26-28. Friends was for the first 8 years, Star Trek has been for as long as I can remember, JAG was, etc. Damn the networks taking away our content  icon_wink
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« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2007, 03:54:59 PM »

And I also want to say that this is one of the things I like about Sony.  Sure, maybe the 360 is technically less expensive than the PS3, but it's a bullshit comparison when MS nickel and dimes you on every thing.

$180 for a 20 GB hard drive?  $50 a year for Live?  $40 for a webcam so that I can get those 30nerd points in Rainbow 6?  It's making me more and more pissed off just thinking about it.

Oh, and fuck EA too.
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« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2007, 03:55:18 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on March 28, 2007, 03:49:56 PM

Bill Gates can kiss my balls before I'll pay $180 for a 120 GB hard drive.  I just bought a 320 GB hard drive for my PC for $80.  If it means I can't download HD movies, so be it.

Listen, I bought my 360 as a game machine.  Not a movie machine.  Not a multimedia machine.  A game machine.

+1 LOL in real life
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« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2007, 04:04:21 PM »

Quote from: Soulchilde on March 28, 2007, 03:55:18 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on March 28, 2007, 03:49:56 PM

Bill Gates can kiss my balls before I'll pay $180 for a 120 GB hard drive.  I just bought a 320 GB hard drive for my PC for $80.  If it means I can't download HD movies, so be it.

Listen, I bought my 360 as a game machine.  Not a movie machine.  Not a multimedia machine.  A game machine.

+1 LOL in real life

Well, not that I'm going to claim that Microsoft is offering us a good deal here, but your 320GB drive wasn't 2.5". 
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« Reply #62 on: March 28, 2007, 04:05:30 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 03:39:51 PM

Quote from: Brendan on March 28, 2007, 03:31:44 PM

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 03:18:11 PM

First of all agree completely, second I don't think there are enough people like gellar to think this is a wise move, and finally (Although I seem to be the only person that is still harping on this), if they really want to ramp up the marketplace for movie downloads, make it competitive with every other rental service out there. The fact that people are renting and downloading movies from them for 4 dollars a pop that sometimes take 24 hours to download and they they only have 24 hours to watch or they lose it is so insanely insulting to consumers that can get 2 DVDs out at a time for 10 bucks from blockbuster and watch 8 or so of them in a month for twice that cost and spend as long as they damn well choose to watch them is just mind-boggling. The fact that MS doesn't recognize this flaw is equally mystifying. I wish more people were as annoyed about it as I am, because frankly I WANT to download and watch HD movies. I want to do it now, but I won't do it the way they have it set up.

The competition is VOD in this case, not Blockbuster.

And the terms are actually "Watch it within 24 hours once you've started viewing it, but you can wait up to 14 days to start watching once it's downloaded."

I know exactly what the terms are, and obfuscating the issue by stating the length you have to watch it is irrelevant to the conversation when the fact remains that you have a. a limited time to watch it (14 days), and b. you only have 24 hours to watch the thing you paid 5$ for if you start it for 1 minute and then have an emergency, or work, or life get in the way. There is no logical justification for it. Its a bad decision. Telling me I have 14 days to start doesn't change the inherent flaw in the system.

And the fact that VOD is the direct competition because its downloadble over the internet (or the new Comcast streaming database they are working on) applies only if you view the marketplace downloads in the vacuum of "internet downloading" The actual reality is that it competes with brick and mortar stores and the currently far superior and better value mail services.

I realize this is one of the issues you get maximally irate about, but I'm not obfuscating anything.  I was trying to clear up your explanation, which made it sound as though one had to RACE AGAINST TIME to watch a movie within 24 hours that took 23 hours to download.

The terms you're complaining about aren't "intellectual property" related, they're foisted off on companies by movie studios.  Comcast VOD is actually worse than this because you get 24 hours - period.  Not two weeks.  And here's the thing:  the content providers have most of the power here.  They have alternate distribution methods (VOD, Netflix, Blockbuster, theaters, etc), and they attempt to make these things appealing to particular customer segments in order to prevent cannibalization of their other revenue sources.  That's why all of the other services that implement this type of "rental" functionality have exactly the same problem.

So, vote with your wallet.  If everyone hates it, and no one buys it, then the content providers will be forced to relent and either change the rules or drop their support entirely.  Conversely, if it becomes super succesful, then companies who offer movie rentals will have more leverage to force content providers to change the rules.

This is the beginning of the game, not the end of it.
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« Reply #63 on: March 28, 2007, 04:23:35 PM »

I just tried Video Marketplace and had an overall poor experience. I miscalculated how much space I had left on my DVR and it deleted a couple of episodes of one of my girlfriend's favorite shows. I've always boycotted Xbox Live over their goofy points system, but I decided to cave rather than disappoint her.

Each HD episode of the show was over 2GB and each one took over four hours to download. I was very disappointed in the picture quality. The image is noticeably degraded over what I've come to expect from OTA HD. Fast-forwarding and rewinding doesn't work very well. It can take several seconds for the show to actually start FF/RW from the time the button is pressed and it only supports up to 8X FF/RW. And strangely, a couple of times I got an error message saying the video wasn't in a proper format when I tried to rewind to the beginning.

It's all well and good that Microsoft is adding additional storage options for the 360, but the Video Marketplace is never going to take off unless Microsoft improves the whole experience.

EDIT: Is it possible to transfer points to a different account? I have about 20-40 points left over that I will give to a fellow GT forum member, as I will probably never use it.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 04:28:01 PM by Andrew Mallon » Logged
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« Reply #64 on: March 28, 2007, 04:25:52 PM »

Quote from: Purge on March 28, 2007, 03:48:54 PM

[ in reply to calvin's question on cost for Live video marketplace ]
Because they don't have the volume that retail enjoys. The delivery channels for getting box-sets onto store shelves is established; MS is dealing with bandwidth & licencing. The publishers aren't going to give deeper discounts on their IP if the product isn't moving fast and furious.

I'm glad they're cutting their teeth on this; I expect (just like Live) that bandwidth will expand as more consumption happens. Since I live in canada and this stuff isn't available here I have zippo need to get this.

No 65nm chip, no HD-DVD built in drive, and my TV doesn't have HDMI = not much incentive.

I have Vista Ultimate; I can stream music / video from my PC and not worry about this.


MS *SHOULD HAVE* released a 2.5" HDD enclosure so people can buy their own HDD's... and when they connect to the 360 there is a mandatory "reformat if tampered with" function in it. (it would make so much sense; get the cost of packaging / mfg). Now they're tied into another component industry that they used to justify in making the HDD optional only.  disgust If costs go down on 2.5" disks, the cost to make their product doesn't necessarily reflect it.

Good post. thumbsup
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« Reply #65 on: March 28, 2007, 04:28:01 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on March 28, 2007, 04:23:35 PM

I just tried Video Marketplace and had an overall poor experience. I miscalculated how much space I had left on my DVR and it deleted a couple of episodes of one of my girlfriend's favorite shows. I've always boycotted Xbox Live over their goofy points system, but I decided to cave rather than disappoint her.

Each HD episode of the show was over 2GB and each one took over four hours to download. I was very disappointed in the picture quality, too. The image is noticeably degraded over what I've come to expect from OTA HD. Fast-forwarding and rewinding doesn't work very well. It can take several seconds for the show to actually start FF/RW from the time the button is pressed and it only supports up to 8X FF/RW. And strangely, a couple of times I got an error message saying the video wasn't in a proper format when I tried to rewind to the beginning.

It's all well and good that Microsoft is adding additional storage options for the 360, but the Video Marketplace is never going to take off unless Microsoft improves the whole experience.

Why is the points system goofy? How else do you wanna pay for stuff? Surely you don't really wanna put your credit card number in every....single.....time you buy something.

With regards to the video quality, are you watching on an HDTV? The reason I ask is that the picture quality of the HD material on XBL is almost unanimously praised as being top tier.

Agree 100% with your third point.
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« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2007, 04:29:45 PM »

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 04:28:01 PM

Why is the points system goofy? How else do you wanna pay for stuff? Surely you don't really wanna put your credit card number in every....single.....time you buy something.

With regards to the video quality, are you watching on an HDTV? The reason I ask is that the picture quality of the HD material on XBL is almost unanimously praised as being top tier.

I assume he means "1 point does not equal 1 unit of actual currency".

The HD content is 720p, so depending on what he's getting OTA, it could look worse.
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« Reply #67 on: March 28, 2007, 04:35:13 PM »

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 04:28:01 PM

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on March 28, 2007, 04:23:35 PM

I just tried Video Marketplace and had an overall poor experience. I miscalculated how much space I had left on my DVR and it deleted a couple of episodes of one of my girlfriend's favorite shows. I've always boycotted Xbox Live over their goofy points system, but I decided to cave rather than disappoint her.

Each HD episode of the show was over 2GB and each one took over four hours to download. I was very disappointed in the picture quality, too. The image is noticeably degraded over what I've come to expect from OTA HD. Fast-forwarding and rewinding doesn't work very well. It can take several seconds for the show to actually start FF/RW from the time the button is pressed and it only supports up to 8X FF/RW. And strangely, a couple of times I got an error message saying the video wasn't in a proper format when I tried to rewind to the beginning.

It's all well and good that Microsoft is adding additional storage options for the 360, but the Video Marketplace is never going to take off unless Microsoft improves the whole experience.

Why is the points system goofy? How else do you wanna pay for stuff? Surely you don't really wanna put your credit card number in every....single.....time you buy something.

With regards to the video quality, are you watching on an HDTV? The reason I ask is that the picture quality of the HD material on XBL is almost unanimously praised as being top tier.

Mirosoft already has my credit card number attached to my account. They should be able to charge it when I make a purchase without me having to enter it every time. The points system is goofy precisely because of my edit about leftover points in my original post. The entire system is designed for most people to carry a small balance of points that they can never use. Everything's stacked in the dealer's favor and I find that extremely distasteful.

The image quality is noticably worse than the quality provided by my both my HD-DVRs (one TiVo and one non-TiVo). Some of the same problems that affect DVD playback (washed out colors, ice-quality to the image) also affect downloadable videos.
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« Reply #68 on: March 28, 2007, 04:35:37 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on March 28, 2007, 04:29:45 PM

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 04:28:01 PM

Why is the points system goofy? How else do you wanna pay for stuff? Surely you don't really wanna put your credit card number in every....single.....time you buy something.

With regards to the video quality, are you watching on an HDTV? The reason I ask is that the picture quality of the HD material on XBL is almost unanimously praised as being top tier.

I assume he means "1 point does not equal 1 unit of actual currency".

The HD content is 720p, so depending on what he's getting OTA, it could look worse.

I have a hard time believing someone would boycott an entire service over the points not equaling. That is a bit petty, but everyone is different.

Considering what people at AVS say, and what I have seen with my eyes, the HD content on XBL is pretty damn tight, regardless of what he is used to. It's not perfect, but most people seem very impressed.
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« Reply #69 on: March 28, 2007, 04:36:50 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on March 28, 2007, 04:29:45 PM

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 04:28:01 PM

Why is the points system goofy? How else do you wanna pay for stuff? Surely you don't really wanna put your credit card number in every....single.....time you buy something.

With regards to the video quality, are you watching on an HDTV? The reason I ask is that the picture quality of the HD material on XBL is almost unanimously praised as being top tier.

I assume he means "1 point does not equal 1 unit of actual currency".

I'd also much prefer they allow you to specify exactly how many points you want to purchase. It's obvious they force you to choose in 500 increments because they know in a lot of cases people will be forced to buy more than the need, thereby causing them to spend them on other things they wouldn't have otherwised purchased.
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« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2007, 04:37:36 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on March 28, 2007, 04:35:13 PM

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 04:28:01 PM

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on March 28, 2007, 04:23:35 PM

I just tried Video Marketplace and had an overall poor experience. I miscalculated how much space I had left on my DVR and it deleted a couple of episodes of one of my girlfriend's favorite shows. I've always boycotted Xbox Live over their goofy points system, but I decided to cave rather than disappoint her.

Each HD episode of the show was over 2GB and each one took over four hours to download. I was very disappointed in the picture quality, too. The image is noticeably degraded over what I've come to expect from OTA HD. Fast-forwarding and rewinding doesn't work very well. It can take several seconds for the show to actually start FF/RW from the time the button is pressed and it only supports up to 8X FF/RW. And strangely, a couple of times I got an error message saying the video wasn't in a proper format when I tried to rewind to the beginning.

It's all well and good that Microsoft is adding additional storage options for the 360, but the Video Marketplace is never going to take off unless Microsoft improves the whole experience.

Why is the points system goofy? How else do you wanna pay for stuff? Surely you don't really wanna put your credit card number in every....single.....time you buy something.

With regards to the video quality, are you watching on an HDTV? The reason I ask is that the picture quality of the HD material on XBL is almost unanimously praised as being top tier.

Mirosoft already has my credit card number attached to my account. They should be able to charge it when I make a purchase without me having to enter it every time. The points system is goofy precisely because of my edit about leftover points in my original post. The entire system is designed for most people to carry a small balance of points that they can never use. Everything's stacked in the dealer's favor and I find that extremely distasteful.

The image quality is noticably worse than the quality provided by my both my HD-DVRs (one TiVo and one non-TiVo). Some of the same problems that affect DVD playback (washed out colors, ice-quality to the image) also affect downloadable videos.

Actually most people use the points so I think your a bit incorrect in your post there.

After viewing at least a dozen HD movies and TV shows, I don't see the washed out colors or any other issue with the video. It's not HD DVD level (I tested it) but it's not far off at all.
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« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2007, 04:37:39 PM »

I would also like to point out that MS saves your credit card on the account.  So when you buy points through them they just say confirm to charge to XXXX XXXX XXXX 1234.  I would imagine that they could just say $3.95 instead of 420 points.  They don't do that though because you purchase points in blocks and they always charge a weird number of points for things so that if you are low on points you purchase more and keep buying things.  If you have the option to just pay a price they can't really keep you hooked.
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« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2007, 04:38:43 PM »

Quote from: Captain Caveman on March 28, 2007, 04:36:50 PM

Quote from: Brendan on March 28, 2007, 04:29:45 PM

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 04:28:01 PM

Why is the points system goofy? How else do you wanna pay for stuff? Surely you don't really wanna put your credit card number in every....single.....time you buy something.

With regards to the video quality, are you watching on an HDTV? The reason I ask is that the picture quality of the HD material on XBL is almost unanimously praised as being top tier.

I assume he means "1 point does not equal 1 unit of actual currency".

I'd also much prefer they allow you to specify exactly how many points you want to purchase. It's obvious they force you to choose in 500 increments because they know in a lot of cases people will be forced to buy more than the need, thereby causing them to spend them on other things they wouldn't have otherwised purchased.

Yeah, but is that really a bad thing? I don't know guys, everyone is different and thats cool, but to boycott it because of this??????? Eh, I don't know, I think that is nitpicky.
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« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2007, 04:44:04 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on March 28, 2007, 04:05:30 PM

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 03:39:51 PM

Quote from: Brendan on March 28, 2007, 03:31:44 PM

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 03:18:11 PM

First of all agree completely, second I don't think there are enough people like gellar to think this is a wise move, and finally (Although I seem to be the only person that is still harping on this), if they really want to ramp up the marketplace for movie downloads, make it competitive with every other rental service out there. The fact that people are renting and downloading movies from them for 4 dollars a pop that sometimes take 24 hours to download and they they only have 24 hours to watch or they lose it is so insanely insulting to consumers that can get 2 DVDs out at a time for 10 bucks from blockbuster and watch 8 or so of them in a month for twice that cost and spend as long as they damn well choose to watch them is just mind-boggling. The fact that MS doesn't recognize this flaw is equally mystifying. I wish more people were as annoyed about it as I am, because frankly I WANT to download and watch HD movies. I want to do it now, but I won't do it the way they have it set up.

The competition is VOD in this case, not Blockbuster.

And the terms are actually "Watch it within 24 hours once you've started viewing it, but you can wait up to 14 days to start watching once it's downloaded."

I know exactly what the terms are, and obfuscating the issue by stating the length you have to watch it is irrelevant to the conversation when the fact remains that you have a. a limited time to watch it (14 days), and b. you only have 24 hours to watch the thing you paid 5$ for if you start it for 1 minute and then have an emergency, or work, or life get in the way. There is no logical justification for it. Its a bad decision. Telling me I have 14 days to start doesn't change the inherent flaw in the system.

And the fact that VOD is the direct competition because its downloadble over the internet (or the new Comcast streaming database they are working on) applies only if you view the marketplace downloads in the vacuum of "internet downloading" The actual reality is that it competes with brick and mortar stores and the currently far superior and better value mail services.

I realize this is one of the issues you get maximally irate about, but I'm not obfuscating anything.  I was trying to clear up your explanation, which made it sound as though one had to RACE AGAINST TIME to watch a movie within 24 hours that took 23 hours to download.

The terms you're complaining about aren't "intellectual property" related, they're foisted off on companies by movie studios.  Comcast VOD is actually worse than this because you get 24 hours - period.  Not two weeks.  And here's the thing:  the content providers have most of the power here.  They have alternate distribution methods (VOD, Netflix, Blockbuster, theaters, etc), and they attempt to make these things appealing to particular customer segments in order to prevent cannibalization of their other revenue sources.  That's why all of the other services that implement this type of "rental" functionality have exactly the same problem.

So, vote with your wallet.  If everyone hates it, and no one buys it, then the content providers will be forced to relent and either change the rules or drop their support entirely.  Conversely, if it becomes super succesful, then companies who offer movie rentals will have more leverage to force content providers to change the rules.

This is the beginning of the game, not the end of it.

As clever as it is to do so, I am not the only one getting "maximally irate" over this feature. Its a bad idea, and one they need to work there way around. Thanks for letting me know I can vote with my wallet, and I do.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 04:47:15 PM by Calvin » Logged
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« Reply #74 on: March 28, 2007, 04:46:54 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 04:44:04 PM

As clever as it is to do so, I am not the only one getting "maximally irate" over this feature. Its a bad idea, and one they need to work there way around. Thanks for letting me know I can vote with my wallet, and I do. Also, thanks for putting quotes around intellectual property-that helped me understand it.

I put quotes around it because I was quoting your other post, and it was going to mess up the formatting to use the quote tag in the middle of a sentence.
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« Reply #75 on: March 28, 2007, 04:47:09 PM »

Don't fuck with the new Calvin.  You have been warned.
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« Reply #76 on: March 28, 2007, 04:48:26 PM »

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 04:38:43 PM

Quote from: Captain Caveman on March 28, 2007, 04:36:50 PM

Quote from: Brendan on March 28, 2007, 04:29:45 PM

Quote from: jblank on March 28, 2007, 04:28:01 PM

Why is the points system goofy? How else do you wanna pay for stuff? Surely you don't really wanna put your credit card number in every....single.....time you buy something.

With regards to the video quality, are you watching on an HDTV? The reason I ask is that the picture quality of the HD material on XBL is almost unanimously praised as being top tier.

I assume he means "1 point does not equal 1 unit of actual currency".

I'd also much prefer they allow you to specify exactly how many points you want to purchase. It's obvious they force you to choose in 500 increments because they know in a lot of cases people will be forced to buy more than the need, thereby causing them to spend them on other things they wouldn't have otherwised purchased.

Yeah, but is that really a bad thing? I don't know guys, everyone is different and thats cool, but to boycott it because of this??????? Eh, I don't know, I think that is nitpicky.

It's designed for everyone to always carry a balance. You can only buy points in denominations evenly divisible by 100, but the prices for items on Marketplace are in amounts evenly divisible by 80. There is almost no way you can ever zero out your balance, which is essentially free money for Microsoft.

It's not that big of deal in the sense that I seethe with rage over it, it just gives me the same feeling that I get when I walk in to GameStop and they try to sell me an opened copy of a game as new. I'm stuck with the greasy end of the stick.
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« Reply #77 on: March 28, 2007, 04:48:35 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on March 28, 2007, 04:46:54 PM

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 04:44:04 PM

As clever as it is to do so, I am not the only one getting "maximally irate" over this feature. Its a bad idea, and one they need to work there way around. Thanks for letting me know I can vote with my wallet, and I do. Also, thanks for putting quotes around intellectual property-that helped me understand it.

I put quotes around it because I was quoting your other post, and it was going to mess up the formatting to use the quote tag in the middle of a sentence.

I'll edit it out then. As evidenced in the other thread it can be hard to detect what is sly and witty and what is an actual quote. I claim mastery of all and nothing.
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« Reply #78 on: March 28, 2007, 04:51:55 PM »

*sigh*

It all sounds neat but too expensive for what you're getting. I really don't want to purchase another brick as I'm already out 400$ on my first X360 and I'm not made of money here.  So it's basically the same system but with HDMI onboard? Wow...

It's sad but I just don't trust the console enough to make another purchase which is sad because I want to play MAss Effect and Blue Dragon.
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« Reply #79 on: March 28, 2007, 04:58:43 PM »

Agreed on the terms and pricing of content.  The cost is the #1 barrier to me using this service more right now.  Secondly it's the egregrious limits on the usage regardless of who's enforcing it.  Just make a pricing scheme like Netflix.  I love the convenience but not the structure as is.
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