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Author Topic: Warhammer DOW: Winter Assault Review [IGN]  (Read 2791 times)
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Calvin
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« on: September 20, 2005, 03:17:55 AM »

Ok, since CG doesn't have a review up yet and I couldn't find one anywhere else, I figured I would just put this up for discussion.

IGN gives Winter Assault a dissapointing 8.5

Ok, so with the game out tomorrow and a lot of fans here, I am curious to see how our impressions will stack up to these.
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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2005, 04:42:33 AM »

8.5 isn't bad for a game that didn't spend a bunch of ad money with IGN.
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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2005, 10:36:13 AM »

8.5 out of 10?  That doesnt seem disappointing to me.
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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2005, 01:14:41 PM »

After reading the review, it seems like a fair score. The review had a few beefs about the expansion which I would probably knock points off for myself if I reviewed it, maybe even more than he did.
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« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2005, 05:13:28 PM »

Yeah I read that too.  I think it's a fair score.

Quote
factions and units and also allows players to choose their side this time around, something missing in the parent product. Two campaigns following either Order (Imperial Guard and Eldar) or Chaos (Chaos Space Marines and Orks) of five missions each provide some good fun and good challenges. These missions definitely seemed more difficult in general than those in the Space Marine campaign in Dawn of War. Some of them even promote a much more fast paced style of gaming. One in particular has players either escorting or chasing down a convoy across a map which will have players scurrying around trying to capture points, fend off enemies, and complete an objective that keeps moving around.

The fact that a couple of the maps are shared between the campaigns may bother some people, but considering the storyline and how all of the races fit together in its telling, I think it actually works well. That same mission I mentioned briefly above can actually be played from any of the four sides that take part in the campaign. While playing through the Order campaign, players can approach it from the vantage of the Guard or Eldar. The Guard have to escort some VIPs through the battle zone to the other side of the map, capturing points and reinforcing troops along the way. The Eldar meanwhile will have to move their base across the map using the relocate function in order to beat the Imperial Guard there. Conversely, the Chaos campaign will have the Chaos forces trying to catch and destroy the escort while the Orks will be trying to catch up to and kill the Eldar. In both campaigns, the two sides can be switched between at any time, allowing players to try and make both of them work.

I really like the fact that they're trying to do something new and fun here, but I had some problems with the mission. Because you could switch back and forth between the two sides, it was really difficult to manage what was happening. While playing the Guard, the Eldar simply sit there and vice versa. This leaves whatever side you're not playing idle, which kinda ruined the fun to me. I would have rather made a choice from the beginning about which side I was going to play and stuck with it or had control over both factions at the same time.


And it looks like there's some AI problems.
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« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2005, 07:05:54 PM »

I think they have introduced some new AI code that is causing issues.  Several times in AI games under patch 1.4, I've had infantry units get caught up on each other.  It usually happens when I order a large troop of infantry to take a point and they cluster up on it, or I order them close together so they can all get the crater cover bonus.  

This usually results in multiple units getting tied together.  The AI it uses to keep the individual units together also keeps them from following the move order, if it results in the single units moving far apart.  I can usually undo it...but it is like untying a ball of twine that is a single large knot.   I find it much easier just to nuke one or two units with the delete key and rebuild them.
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« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2005, 07:28:32 PM »

Oh I agree-I am dissapointed that its not a stellar 9.5 type experience-as new and fresh as Dawn of War was, but considering the review-it seems perfectly fair and well thought out for IGN. They had serious issues with the AI and they thought the way some of the campaign played out was suspect. I think that's just fine-and the review makes it sound like the Imperial Guard is pretty awesome, so that right there is enough. Either way, this shipped yesterday, so when can we expect it in stores?
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« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2005, 07:32:45 PM »

Well that sucks, EB has now pushed the Winter Assault ship date to 9/21, and Gamestop says 9/20 but not "Now Shipping". Come the heck on, the game was gold two weeks ago. Is this really that complicated?  :cry:
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« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2005, 07:40:46 PM »

Yeah, I'd hoped EB would have Winter Assault in today, but it looks like it's run into shipping delays.

I love Dawn of War multiplayer since it strikes the perfect middleground in micromanagement -- it's not overdone like WC3 (though the Eldar do require WC3-like micro to be effective), but it's not totally hands-off boring like Kohan either.  It really ends up being very tactical and satisfying.  While I'm still sour about Relic picking the most boring race out of the otherwise amazing WH40k mythos, I can understand them wanting to include a new kind of gameplay (defensive) before including something exotic but otherwise very similar in gameplay style to another race.
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Calvin
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« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2005, 08:15:18 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Yeah, I'd hoped EB would have Winter Assault in today, but it looks like it's run into shipping delays.

I love Dawn of War multiplayer since it strikes the perfect middleground in micromanagement -- it's not overdone like WC3 (though the Eldar do require WC3-like micro to be effective), but it's not totally hands-off boring like Kohan either.  It really ends up being very tactical and satisfying.  While I'm still sour about Relic picking the most boring race out of the otherwise amazing WH40k mythos, I can understand them wanting to include a new kind of gameplay (defensive) before including something exotic but otherwise very similar in gameplay style to another race.


I agree with you completely about WH multiplayer. Although I don't play very often and would really like to get more into it, I think it is the most interesting, fun, tactical without being overly complex RTS on the market.
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« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2005, 10:58:25 PM »

And another review is up for those interested....

http://cgw.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3143974&did=1

It's short and to the point I suppose.

LD
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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2005, 12:33:50 AM »

Quote from: "Lockdown"
And another review is up for those interested....

http://cgw.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3143974&did=1

It's short and to the point I suppose.

LD
The review is alot more positive than 8.0 would suggest...
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2005, 12:56:08 AM »

Well, I read on the Relic forums

White Dwarf magazines makes allusions to the introduction of a sixth race, probably as an opponent.
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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2005, 01:51:03 AM »

Most likely it'll be Dark Eldar with the way they've been choosing them.

But a sixth race would have to be evil since we already have 3 good ones.
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2005, 03:46:41 AM »

Probably in the sequal, right?  Pretty much every RTS gets one expansion pack, tops.  As I recall it, Total Annihilation was the last RTS to get more than one expansion pack.

Still, it'd be really cool to see a 6th race added to the current game.
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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2005, 05:14:07 AM »

Wait a second...

They're working on Company of Heroes, which is very similar to DoW with the squad/unit structure combined with vehicle action.

If they could get the license again, which they could with their good track record from DoW, why not use the new tech from CoH to make another WH40k game?

I suspect we'll be seeing such an announcement sometime next year.
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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2005, 01:21:10 PM »

they already had dark eldar, and they canned them.

I doubt they will bring them back.
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Calvin
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« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2005, 07:56:24 PM »

Quote from: "Turtle"
Wait a second...

They're working on Company of Heroes, which is very similar to DoW with the squad/unit structure combined with vehicle action.

If they could get the license again, which they could with their good track record from DoW, why not use the new tech from CoH to make another WH40k game?

I suspect we'll be seeing such an announcement sometime next year.


I would be absolutely dumb-founded if they are not already working on WH2 with the CoH engine-which I think would be phenomenal. BTW-how goddamn good does CoH look? Wow.
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« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2005, 09:35:14 PM »

EBGames is still listing WA as pre-order.  WTF.
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« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2005, 11:12:13 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
EBGames is still listing WA as pre-order.  WTF.


They did that with NHL 2k6 for Xbox which I ordered a couple weeks back.  It arrived the same day, however.  The odd thing was that the PS2 version was listed as available while the Xbox was still a pre-order.

Anybody read any reports of it actually being available?
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« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2005, 11:21:04 PM »

Quote from: "Turtle"
Most likely it'll be Dark Eldar with the way they've been choosing them.


I couldn't find the post about a sixth race, but here's my input regardless.

Dark Eldar would likely be pretty easy to add but GGMark already said they scrapped them...  In fact they use somewhat different weapons than the Eldar.  Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, and Dark Eldar would only require different textures since they have mostly the same equipment.  If they are going all out then we are left with Tyranids, Tau, Necrons, or something like the Adeptus Sororitas (same vehicles, slightly different look since they are females).  Three baddies and a good guy.

I'd imagine we could easily see SM, CSM, or DE as a mod (if not already).  I think it would be neat to see different kinds of Imperial Guard, since many have different appearances/uniforms based on their homeworld.

I just want the expansion!
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« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2005, 12:09:20 AM »

The official forums are reporting some Winter Assaults showing up in a few areas, like Atlanta, GA.  EB's company line is tomorrow, however.
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« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2005, 12:36:45 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
The official forums are reporting some Winter Assaults showing up in a few areas, like Atlanta, GA.  EB's company line is tomorrow, however.


Too bad I'm already at home (and heavily medicated to boot)!
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« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2005, 12:37:07 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
The official forums are reporting some Winter Assaults showing up in a few areas, like Atlanta, GA.  EB's company line is tomorrow, however.


Yep-official word is tomrorow morning.
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« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2005, 12:46:10 AM »

Got mine!

Imperial Guard are a blast!   I will post some impressions in the morning unless I am amped after Invasion... in which case I will post tonight.

LD
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Calvin
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« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2005, 01:04:36 AM »

Quote from: "Lockdown"
Got mine!

Imperial Guard are a blast!   I will post some impressions in the morning unless I am amped after Invasion... in which case I will post tonight.

LD


BASTAAAARD!! biggrin
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« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2005, 05:29:17 AM »

I can run to the hobby store I use to haunt, and find out if there is any word on the street about a new race.  There was some talk awhile ago about brining back Harlequins.  They were sort of like Eldar Pirates.  <shrug>

Dark Eldar were kinda neat, they sort of looked like Spikey Dark Eldar.  They had some VERY starnge units.  Your basic 'gaurdian' type unit. Fast Jet Bikes.  Moving platforms, similar to the one in Star Wars over the Sarlac pit.  The race was heavy into slavery.  But then you had really strange things, like these semi demon guys who used to carry very hellraiser looking little boxes around to trap souls.  Witches. who were like the Banshees with MUCH less clothes.

In some ways they were really neat, but in other ways, it really seemed like you were playing eldar, with different armour on.
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« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2005, 11:16:09 PM »

Dark Eldar are like Eldar Pirates (think of Eldar as fantasy elves and the Dark Eldar as fantasy dark elves).  There are mercenary bands of Dark Eldar as well.

They don't need to "bring back" the Harlequins; they never went away!  Might only be available via direct sales, but they are still made.

More about the Harlequins (from Lexicanum):
Quote
The Harlequins are a faction of the Eldar, and the most enigmatic of that mysterious race. They roam the Webway, fighting Chaos and its influence. Their sole purpose is to seek out Chaos and destroy it wherever they can, and Chaos is their most hated enemy.

Harlequins must pass a trial known only as The Ritual upon initiation into a Harlequin band, and this ritual is said to free them of the fear normal Eldar have of Slaanesh, the Chaos god of pleasure. This is why they need not wear a waystone when they travel in the Webway, and do not have to endure the tiring soul-draining that other Eldar endure when in the Webway for prolonged periods of time.

Harlequin lifestyle is very like the life of a roaming mime or troubadour of the medieval times. They wander the Webway and occaisionally appear at Eldar settlements: on a Craftworld, on Commorraugh, on an Exodite Maiden world. They perform dances for the spectators there: Masques, as they are sometimes called. Their artistic works portray the Fall, the legendary decline that destroyed the Eldar, the birth of the Chaos god Slaanesh, and many other tales from the long history of the Eldar.


There are basic Harlequins as well as Death Jesters (heavy weapons specialists) and Solitaires, who are immune to psychic attack and seek out potential Harlequins (and know their soul will be eaten by Slaanesh when they die).

Neat stuff!

I love the WH40k background so the fact Dawn of War is actually a fun game makes me a very happy gaming geek!
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« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2005, 12:27:48 AM »

I've mostly heard rumors of the Genestealers being the next... but that might just be wishful thinking.
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« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2005, 01:46:06 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
I've mostly heard rumors of the Genestealers being the next... but that might just be wishful thinking.


That would be interesting and lead in nicely to the introduction of Tyranids (as Genestealers are usually sent in to infiltrate a world before the fleet arrives).  Plus the full-on 'stealers would be a hell of a close combat unit!  You could even have the primarch as a big special unit!

I really like the idea of the Genestealers (and hopefully Tyranids) popping up in the future.  There are so many directions to go...
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« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2005, 03:02:53 AM »

Quote from: "stiffler"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
I've mostly heard rumors of the Genestealers being the next... but that might just be wishful thinking.


That would be interesting and lead in nicely to the introduction of Tyranids (as Genestealers are usually sent in to infiltrate a world before the fleet arrives).  Plus the full-on 'stealers would be a hell of a close combat unit!  You could even have the primarch as a big special unit!

I really like the idea of the Genestealers (and hopefully Tyranids) popping up in the future.  There are so many directions to go...


Ok I am really curious about Warhammer 40K fiction now. Could someone let us know what some of the earliest must-reads are? I went to that linked site but there is a ton of stuff to sort through.
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« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2005, 05:09:47 AM »

I love the 40K setting. I've picked up most of my knowledge from playing with veteran players, reading backstories behind the big campaigns they run, and a couple of the fancy art books.

I'm usually very leery of game related fiction, but the Black Library (http://www.blacklibrary.com) has published some good stuff.  The comic book writing is hit-or-miss, but I really enjoyed the Daemonfuge graphic novel as a Sisters of Battle fan. I've just started reading Dan Abnett's Eisenhorn trilogy, and it's entertaining and well written.  I can't vouch for the rest of the 40K fiction, but there's some good stuff out there.
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« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2005, 06:44:49 AM »

Great man, thanks for the starting tips!
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« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2005, 02:27:47 PM »

I think I've read about 15 of the 40k novels.  I'd certainly reccomend Eisenhorn, but only if you can handle reading around 1000 pages told entirely in first-person.  A quick-moving story that I really enjoyed.

I just finished the Ciaphas Cain books (For the Emperor, Caves of Ice, The Traitor's Hand) and enjoyed them.  They are a bit of a different take on the universe since they are more humorous than the dark future of most BL books.  During this series he faces most of the rogues gallery of nasty xenos.

There are books out there that cover most aspects of the 40k universe.  If there is a faction or xeno that you are interested in let me know and I can try and steer you in the right direction.

There are plenty of short story anthologies out there as well as numerous background resources scattered around the internet.
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« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2005, 03:27:25 PM »

The best fluff overall was in the army books produced by the Games Workshop company.  At least in the older books.  Not sure about the newer ones.  For a couple years they seemed to get away from the fluff for some reason, making most players pretty upset.

I have a pretty decent knowledge of Armies in 40k as a old table top player.  races that have gone by the wa side.  Squats:  Space Dwarves.  Harlequins:  Pirate Like Space Elves, similar to the eldar.  Dark Eldar:  Evil Slave Keeping Eldar.  I believe those are the three races to come and go.  Everyone wants Squats back GW refuses to bring them back.  Dont know why.  A new race everyone wants.  Space Skaven.  Skaven are rat people from the Fantasy universe.

Marines:  Genetically Engineered HUmans.
Imp Gaurd:  pretty much normal humans.  20th Century Warfare style.
Eldar:  Space Elves
Genestealers:  The epitome of what the giger alien would be.  Half Alien, half whatever they gene they splice ein.
Tau:  Neutral race, become part of the greater good, or die.
Necrons:  Egyptian Terminators.
Chaos:  Genetically engineered Marines who turned to the Chaos Gods.


I think I covered them all.  I feel like I missed one though.
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« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2005, 04:11:35 PM »

Quote from: "stiffler"
I think I've read about 15 of the 40k novels.  I'd certainly reccomend Eisenhorn, but only if you can handle reading around 1000 pages told entirely in first-person.  A quick-moving story that I really enjoyed.

I just finished the Ciaphas Cain books (For the Emperor, Caves of Ice, The Traitor's Hand) and enjoyed them.  They are a bit of a different take on the universe since they are more humorous than the dark future of most BL books.  During this series he faces most of the rogues gallery of nasty xenos.

There are books out there that cover most aspects of the 40k universe.  If there is a faction or xeno that you are interested in let me know and I can try and steer you in the right direction.

There are plenty of short story anthologies out there as well as numerous background resources scattered around the internet.


I know its pretty typical, but the whole space marine mythos really interests me Stiffy.
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« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2005, 07:43:47 PM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
I know its pretty typical, but the whole space marine mythos really interests me Stiffy.


I've read few novels that actually focus on the Space Marines.  Among these are Angels of Darkness, the Blood Angels books, and my current read, Lord of the Night.

I have (but haven't yet started) the Ultramarines books.  Maybe check those out?  The Blood Angels books aren't bad but I thought the story was a bit weak.  Angels of Darkness is good but might be a bit confusing since you don't really know the background of the Dark Angels chapter (and the whole Horus Heresy backstory, which basically saw half the Space Marine chapters of the time fall to Chaos).  It's a good book, though and I'd reccomend it ahead of the Blood Angels books.

I haven't read Grey Knights, but that is about a chapter which hunt chaos.  They are actually more elite than normal Space Marines (if it can be imagined).

So either give Angels of Darkness a look (it's standalone) or if you want a series, give the Ultramarines novels a look.  Ultramarines are the prototypical Space Marines.  There are three in the series, Nightbringer; Warriors of Ultramar; and Dead Sky, Black Sun.  Storm of Iron, a standalone book, fits between the second and third to flesh it out a bit more.

If you have any questions I'm happy to help.
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« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2005, 07:53:27 PM »

Is there a game manual that has a good selection of mythos 'fluff?'  I've got the original Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay book, and it's packed to the gills with neat stuff.  Is there any equivalant for Warhammer 40k?

I've heard good things about Librium Chaotica for Chaos mythos... anyone read that?
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« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2005, 08:38:21 PM »

Quote from: "stiffler"
Quote from: "Calvin"
I know its pretty typical, but the whole space marine mythos really interests me Stiffy.


I've read few novels that actually focus on the Space Marines.  Among these are Angels of Darkness, the Blood Angels books, and my current read, Lord of the Night.

I have (but haven't yet started) the Ultramarines books.  Maybe check those out?  The Blood Angels books aren't bad but I thought the story was a bit weak.  Angels of Darkness is good but might be a bit confusing since you don't really know the background of the Dark Angels chapter (and the whole Horus Heresy backstory, which basically saw half the Space Marine chapters of the time fall to Chaos).  It's a good book, though and I'd reccomend it ahead of the Blood Angels books.

I haven't read Grey Knights, but that is about a chapter which hunt chaos.  They are actually more elite than normal Space Marines (if it can be imagined).

So either give Angels of Darkness a look (it's standalone) or if you want a series, give the Ultramarines novels a look.  Ultramarines are the prototypical Space Marines.  There are three in the series, Nightbringer; Warriors of Ultramar; and Dead Sky, Black Sun.  Storm of Iron, a standalone book, fits between the second and third to flesh it out a bit more.

If you have any questions I'm happy to help.


That's awesome Stiffy, thanks for the reccomendations. I am going to do some online shopping here, and I will let you know what I find!
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« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2005, 01:46:19 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Is there a game manual that has a good selection of mythos 'fluff?'  I've got the original Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay book, and it's packed to the gills with neat stuff.  Is there any equivalant for Warhammer 40k?

I've heard good things about Librium Chaotica for Chaos mythos... anyone read that?


The Warhammer 40k tabletop game book is full of fluff.  There is no 40k RPG unfortunately.  I have never actually played the tabletop game but I have picked up the newest rulebooks and codecies to be released (4th edition just started up about a year ago) just to read up on the fluff.

Liber Chaotica: Complete Edition just came out a few months ago.  It is AMAZING!  I've never read any of the Warhammer fantasy stuff, but the book was so nice I got a copy on the cheap from Amazon.  Really fantastic, huge coffee table size book.  Oh, and the same Chaos gods exist in 40k so a lot of it is very similar.

The Horus Heresy art books (three volumes) are jam packed with background information collected from the card game, which takes place (naturally) during the said heresy in around 32k.  Great art, too.

Rage, I forgot to mention the Space Wolves books.  That's another angle to check out.  I don't particularly like the background on that chapter as much but I'll probably check them out sometime in the future.

You might actually begin with those Blood Angels books since they are short and give a decent overview of some SM stuff.  I hesitate to reccomend them since the story is fairly stupid, but I had forgotten about the Death Company, which is VERY cool.

You should check out Codex: Space Marines (the newest, 4th edition) if you just want the background on how SM's are "made" and such.  Let me know via PM if you'd like to browse through it.
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