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Author Topic: Warhammer: Dawn of War - Get me started  (Read 3259 times)
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Scott
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« on: August 14, 2006, 01:24:05 PM »

Just picked up the Gold edition with the expansion pack in it.  Played a bit last night, and it looks a blast.

My first question though, any way to up to 1680x1050 support?  It looks like resolutions are pretty limited in in the game.

Any good tips, info, discussions, etc.?  Missed this in its first round, is anyone still playing?  The second expansion coming looks pretty interesting as well.
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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2006, 01:30:02 PM »

I play it from time to time still with my nephew. 

PM me anytime you want to hook up and play some games Scott.
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« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2006, 01:37:51 PM »

Quote from: Lockdown on August 14, 2006, 01:30:02 PM

I play it from time to time still with my nephew. 

PM me anytime you want to hook up and play some games Scott.

Can I PM you if I want to play hop scotch or perhaps some tic tac toe?

 icon_lol
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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2006, 02:02:20 PM »

Beings as you kick my butt in everything we play, the answer is simply:

No, you can not.

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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2006, 02:17:51 PM »

Quote from: Lockdown on August 14, 2006, 02:02:20 PM

Beings as you kick my butt in everything we play, the answer is simply:

No, you can not.



Oh come on, I have only ever whooped you in Fight Night if I remember correctly....

I could let you win once or twice...

please be my friend!!!!

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« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2006, 03:25:57 PM »

I'll play you Lockdown.
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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2006, 03:37:08 PM »

I need a bit of practice before you guys slaughter me online.

What works in this game?  Any good early strategies?  For the space marines, are certain troops a lot more effective, certain upgrades necesssary, etc.? 
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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2006, 05:20:07 PM »

Quote from: Scott on August 14, 2006, 03:37:08 PM

I need a bit of practice before you guys slaughter me online.

What works in this game?  Any good early strategies?  For the space marines, are certain troops a lot more effective, certain upgrades necesssary, etc.? 

You're going to want to build some Space Marines for sure.
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2006, 05:32:57 PM »

HAR HAR HAR I'm such a smartass.

Generally a good rule of thumb in DoW is to be aggressive.  That and putting listening posts on your capped points ASAP. 
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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2006, 06:05:30 PM »

Quote from: Scott on August 14, 2006, 01:24:05 PM

Any good tips, info, discussions, etc.?
Well, before anything else, make sure you've patched the game to the most recent release (1.50 I think?)

Some general thoughts on how each of the five (gold comes with Winter Assault, right?) races play:

Space Marines: Probably the most nub-friendly race.  Heavy Infantry in the form of, well, Space Marines make up the backbone of the race, with both well rounded (the mechs) and situation-specific vehicles appearing later.  Your vehicles are definitely second stage, though -- all heavy lifting is done by Space Marines, and at the endgame, Terminators.  Your melee hero is quite good, while the caster hero is just OK.

Chaos: Chaos used to be just corrupted Space Marines, but they've undergone a significant overhaul which makes them very different.  Your main unit, the Corrupt Marine, is the second-best Tier 1 infantry (Space Marines being the best).  However, you don't want to focus too long on Corrupt Marines, because the power in the redesigned Chaos really comes from their melee units (Berserkers) and, of course, the summonable demons.  Chaos's only vehicle of note (I forget the name, it's like a lumbering spider/walker thing), is quite versatile in terms of siege/ranged/melee potency, but is relatively fragile.  Chaos's melee hero is similar -- nice damage, but lower survivability.  Chaos's caster hero is fantastic.  You'll want to buy both heroes with Chaos.

Eldar: Eldar are the least friendly race for nubs.  Eldar is an extremely specialized race, lacking a good all-around unit.  What this means is, if you can keep up with countering your opponent, you can dominate with Eldar.  If you field anything but their counter, you lose.  Eldar is thus very dependant on scouting and mobility -- ie, micromanagement.  Eldar's initial hero is actually a caster, and is probably the most powerful starting hero, with a strong AOE knockback/damage spell and a huge single-target, hero-killer nuke.  Their secondary hero is a melee squadron called the Elder Council, and wasn't worth the money it took to build, fully reinforce, and equip, last time I played.

Ork: Last I played, Ork sucked.  Their mechanics are significantly different from the other races, tying technological advance into your "WAAAAAGGH" meter, which is increased by building the fragile-but-cheap WAAGH Banners.  Orcs are best understood as a zerg race -- if you're attacking, you need to surround and swarm, and furthermore, you need to constantly be harassing your enemy with hit-and-run attacks.  Failure to do so will simply result in your fragile, low-morale units facing off against units which are simply better than your fragile, cowardly orks.  Their vehicles are fast but generally fragile, again leaning toward a hit-and-run playstyle.  Both heroes should be purchased, though it's a rare game where you're able to field the second one, as he's a lategame hero (but very powerful, mind you).

Imperial Guard:  IG are all about vehicles.  Your initial infantry are pretty much the worst in the game, and you're pretty freakin' weak in the early game.  Once you can field vehicles, though, your power skyrockets -- IG's vehicles are all well-rounded and quite powerful.  In the late game you get some worthy infantry, but you get even better vehicles.  Probably better to invest more into vehicles than infantry, unless you're really getting hit hard by infantry-based anti-vehicle firepower.  Buy all your heroes, if only to help you survive the early game.
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Scott
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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2006, 07:23:17 PM »

Quote
Generally a good rule of thumb in DoW is to be aggressive.  That and putting listening posts on your capped points ASAP.
I've tried to do this, though not sure how effective the listening posts are yet.

Thanks for the writeup LE.  (Gold does come with Winter Assault).  I've only touched the Space Marines so far.  Orcs don't appeal very much.  It seems the basic Starcraft philosophy came from Warhammer 40,000 to start?  I remember reading that at some point, and it makes a bit more sense seeing Warhammer for the first time.

I haven't tried yet, but I'm assuming the campaign is nothing like multiplayer or skirmish mode, and mostly fixed engagements?  (Like most RTS games?)

With the Space Marines, it seems I should really focus on building the marines then?  I've noticed they have various upgrades, such as flamethrower, rocket launcher, etc.  Are these all situational, or do various ones really shine?

I also haven't really looked, but is it cheaper to build a squad up to 8, or more effective to have two four man squads?

How similar is Dawn of War to the tabletop game, beyond real time vs turn based?  Are the units pretty faithful?
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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2006, 07:32:00 PM »

DoW is "inspired" by the tabletop game... I'm not sure just how faithful it is to canon, but there are departures from it (like the Chaos units).  IIRC, all the units are right from the tabletop, but I know there's an Ork unit (Wartruk?) that's not.  From everything I've read, it's about as true to the tabletop game as an RTS can get.  Games Workshop has to okay pretty much everything Relic does in regards to this game. 

With the marines... the weapons are definitely situational.  GENERALLY I get one with flamers, and I attach the force commander to.  And that's the only squad I have with flamers.  I'm an Ork boy first and foremost, so I'm not sure about the rest, but I do know that you usually end up using them all.
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« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2006, 08:06:40 PM »

Quote from: Scott on August 14, 2006, 07:23:17 PM

I haven't tried yet, but I'm assuming the campaign is nothing like multiplayer or skirmish mode, and mostly fixed engagements?  (Like most RTS games?)
There's a campaign?  Seriously, though, I have no idea -- never touched single-player.

Quote
With the Space Marines, it seems I should really focus on building the marines then?
You shouldn't focus on it to the exclusion of everything else, but Space Marines are your force's backbone, so keep them well-upgraded and reinforced and equipped.  A good rule of thumb is 2 full squads in Tier 1, 3 in Tier 2, and 4 in Tier 3.

Quote
I've noticed they have various upgrades, such as flamethrower, rocket launcher, etc.  Are these all situational, or do various ones really shine?
Well, it's pseudo-situational.  I say pseudo- because you can't change them on the fly -- it's more about countering your opponent's choice of race than anything else.

-Flamethrowers do wimpy damage but wreck enemy morale.  Frankly I like to give them to Scout/Cultist squads to run in, break the enemy morale, and run out while my main forces do the killing.  Flamethrowers are basically an infantry debuffer, a worthy investment if your opponent is primarily using infantry, but worthless against vehicles.

-Railguns, or whatever they're called, are anti-light infantry.  Light infantry is any kind of infantry that isn't explicitly defined as "heavy" -- Ork's tier 1 infantry, Eldar's tier 1 and some tier 2 infantry, Imperial Guard's Tier 1 infantry, Space Marine's scouts, and Chaos' cultists.  Railguns (or whatever) slaughter these types of infantry, and do respectable damage against lightly armored buildings (like ork banners).

-Rocket Launchers are anti-vehicle and anti-building.  It's good to assign one of your squads as the "rocket squad" when you hit Tier 2.  You might want to make more than one "rocket squad" if you're fighting a vehicle-heavy opponent, like the Imperial Guard.

-Plasma Rifles are anti-heavy infantry.  They chew up anything defined as "heavy" infantry, and do respectable damage to moderately armored vehicles.  One important note:  the Eldar's floating light vehicles are actually considered Heavy Infantry for damage calculations, so use Plasma to counter those instead of Rockets.

-Grenade Launchers are technically anti-light infantry, but damage isn't really the point of these suckers.  Grenade launchers' primary use is disruption -- grenades knock light and heavy infantry on their asses, allowing you some free shots.  They're invaluable to the Imperial Guard, due to how fragile their initial infantry is -- stunlocking an enemy squad is generally your best, if not only, line of defense in the early infantry game.  Chaos cultists can also use grenade launchers, though it's arguable that cultists are better off just charging into melee, forcing the target to lose its ranged attack and defend itself in melee while your chaos marines kill them from afar.  Space Marine scouts might get them too, I don't remember.

-Sniper Rifles are exclusive to the Space Marines' scouts (last time I checked).  They're slow-firing, high-damage, high-range weapons which get a bonus against light infantry.  However, they still do a good amount of damage to heavy infantry, and as a bonus, they wreck enemy morale too.

Quote
I also haven't really looked, but is it cheaper to build a squad up to 8, or more effective to have two four man squads?
I believe it's slightly more cost-effective to reinforce one squad to 8 than it is to build two squads of 4.  I might be wrong, though.  In any case, if you have the resources, you should keep every squad at full capacity.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2006, 08:08:42 PM by -Lord Ebonstone- » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2006, 11:06:22 PM »

the game is VERY VERY close to table top.  As far as troop choice, upgrades, and the whole thing.  I dont play orks, i know they HAD wartrukks, but there are rules changes every few years, to they may have been removed.

heres a couple pics of stuff I did awhile back.









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« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2006, 02:40:13 AM »

Quote from: GGMark on August 15, 2006, 11:06:22 PM

I dont play orks, i know they HAD wartrukks, but there are rules changes every few years, to they may have been removed.

Remember, red goes faster. icon_wink
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« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2006, 09:16:10 AM »

orks still have some of the most fun table top units to play.  It makes it interesting when your psyker is just as likely to kill the squad standing next to him, as he is his intended target.

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« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2006, 12:09:57 PM »

Something to look forward to Scott:

Link to Gamespy Article
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« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2006, 12:24:20 PM »

Played a couple of the campaign games just to get my feet wet.  Definitely fun so far, but the Space Marines just ran over the Orks.  I'm sure a lot of that has to do with the campaign's early missions though.  Maybe I'll mix it up with a skirmish tonight and see how that goes. 

Thanks for all the tips.  The game seems to have some depth, especially with two more races coming out.

I've always been somewhat interested in the minatures, but the cost always kept me from looking to much, and not sure I really wanted to paint them.
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« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2006, 03:01:11 PM »

Hmm this thread (and COH) have revived my interest in DOW. Is it worth getting both the main and the expansion - or just go for the original as a toe in the water?

Tals
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« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2006, 03:14:04 PM »

Probably worth getting the combo pack I would think.  I'm not sure what the latest patch of the original DoW gives you out of the expansion stuff (units, maps, snow, weather effects, units, etc...).  I'm guessing it's worth it to get the whole package.
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« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2006, 03:30:48 PM »

Unless you can get the original for OMGWTF cheap, the pack is the way to go. 

Plus the way Dark Crusade is going... you have to own the Original to play the Orks, SM, CSM, Eldar online.  And the exp to play the IG.  If you own just DC, then you can only play the Tau/Necrons online.
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« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2006, 03:49:19 PM »

Yeah, get the whole pack. This is one game definitely worth splurging on.
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« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2006, 04:04:04 PM »

I haven't played that much, but so far its great.  It was $30 for the gold pack with expansion, probably cheaper if you look.  The next expansion pack looks very good, with some kind of conquer the world mode.  Any more information on the next packs campaign?  I've only seen info on the new races.  If the next expansion has a conquer the mode, with skirmishes between the races, and bonuses for territories, etc., that'd be incredible.
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« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2006, 04:16:48 PM »

This just off the top of my head, so it may have inaccuracies.

The next exp, Dark Crusade, will have a "Conquer the World" campaign.  Featuring all 7 races.  Not sure if there's territorial bonus.  You'll also have a persistent commander, whom you can buy gear for, and the gear shows up on the character. 

There's a few previews of the sp stuff on Gamespy/IGN.
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« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2006, 04:45:46 PM »

Oh man, the 2nd expansion has a turned-based, conquer the world mode for the campaign?  That seems amazing to me that they would take the time to create a whole new game mode, in addition to adding and balancing 2 new races for a 2nd expansion.  Relic rules.  When all is said and done, DoW has to go down as one of the best RTS games of all time.  And this is coming from someone who doesn't really enjoy RTS titles.
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« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2006, 04:52:05 PM »

If I remember correctly, they're also dropping Gamespy with this expansion.  I could be wrong though.
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« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2006, 05:38:12 PM »

Any screenshots of the conquer the world stuff?  I haven't seen an overall map or anything for it.  Sounds incredible though.  One of the previews said that the developer wanted this to be by far the best expansion pack ever. 

7 pretty unique races plus the conquer the world mode would definitely put the game up there with all time greats. 
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« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2006, 05:40:04 PM »

if you check the Relic Forums, some dude visited the Relic booth at e3 and has a few grainy photos of the conquer the world map.
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« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2006, 06:11:03 PM »

Quote
if you check the Relic Forums, some dude visited the Relic booth at e3 and has a few grainy photos of the conquer the world map.
I'll go take a look today.  Is Relic fully responsible for this add-on, or did they outsource it?
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« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2006, 06:22:10 PM »

It's all them.  I believe they hired a few guys from the Necron mod a while back... maybe the Tau mod too.  But it's all Relic.
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« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2006, 06:54:04 PM »

Here's the metamap:
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« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2006, 08:25:34 PM »

we got any DoW going on today?  I wouldnt mind getting a couple games in before I hit Onyxia tonight.
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« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2006, 10:15:59 PM »

Quote from: Fellow on August 16, 2006, 03:49:19 PM

Yeah, get the whole pack. This is one game definitely worth splurging on.

Order in - hopefully with the up and coming expansion pack and the MP this should be a stayer.

Tals
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« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2006, 10:57:41 PM »

i been playing this game since beta.  I still love it.  granted I am a 40k fan.  but its one of the few games that I have played rfor this long.  NBA 2k5, I can think of as the other..smile
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« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2006, 12:30:49 PM »

Quote from: GGMark on August 16, 2006, 08:25:34 PM

we got any DoW going on today?  I wouldnt mind getting a couple games in before I hit Onyxia tonight.
I'll play at some point in the near future.  I just need to get a little more experience under my belt.  Maybe I'll run through some skirmishes tonight if I get a chance.  Otherwise, I'll just die a bit to quickly...
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« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2006, 12:34:15 PM »

Whoah.

I no longer have my copy of the original DoW, but now this makes me want to rebuy everything and get the expansion.

The Tau or Necrons are both the kind of army I play.  The tau being slightly squishy but with tremendous ranged firepower.

The necrons being just plain hard to kill, but slow to move and build up.

Too bad there's no meta-game for the multiplayer too.
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« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2006, 01:54:20 PM »

Quote from: -Lord Ebonstone- on August 14, 2006, 06:05:30 PM


Eldar: Eldar are the least friendly race for nubs.  Eldar is an extremely specialized race, lacking a good all-around unit.  What this means is, if you can keep up with countering your opponent, you can dominate with Eldar.  If you field anything but their counter, you lose.  Eldar is thus very dependant on scouting and mobility -- ie, micromanagement.  Eldar's initial hero is actually a caster, and is probably the most powerful starting hero, with a strong AOE knockback/damage spell and a huge single-target, hero-killer nuke.  Their secondary hero is a melee squadron called the Elder Council, and wasn't worth the money it took to build, fully reinforce, and equip, last time I played.

Unless things have changed since I checked, Eldar do have that unit-its the goddamned Brightlance cannon. That thing is outrageous.
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« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2006, 06:42:41 AM »

Um, don't you mean Fire Prisms?

Either way, both the brightlances and fire prisms were toned down drastically, so now eldar are even more difficult to play.
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« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2006, 12:15:26 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on August 18, 2006, 06:42:41 AM

Um, don't you mean Fire Prisms?

Either way, both the brightlances and fire prisms were toned down drastically, so now eldar are even more difficult to play.

Well, late game anyway.  From my experience, Eldar kick-start pretty fast.  But like Turtle said, with the toning-down of their big-boys, they can be challenging (for me anyway) as the game progresses into it's late stages.  I suppose if I were a better micro-manager, I wouldn't have so many problems, but alas...

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« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2006, 03:01:04 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on August 18, 2006, 06:42:41 AM

Um, don't you mean Fire Prisms?

Either way, both the brightlances and fire prisms were toned down drastically, so now eldar are even more difficult to play.

No, I mean brightlances. THey were kicking ass and taking names when I was heavier into MP several months back. Absurdly overpowered at one point, but since I hardly ever play now, I didn't realize they were nerfed back to scale.
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