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Author Topic: Warhammer 40k - Dark Crusade Impressions and Thoughts  (Read 6792 times)
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Lockdown
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« on: October 10, 2006, 12:06:37 PM »

I will start things out in this thread by doing what I do best...

Linking to others comments from other websites!  (admit it, I am good at that)  :slywink:

Scott and I will be in here over the next few days reporting on multiplayer as he and I play some games this week.

But for now, I give you Tom Chick's review.  YahooGames Review   (the link is kind of wonky at times.  If it brings you to the PREVIEWS, just click on over to the REVIEWS tab thingy under the title)

For those without access to the site cause of a blocker:  4.5 out of 5 stars

Very interested to hear what everyone here thinks over the next week or so as well.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2006, 12:10:03 PM by Lockdown » Logged

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Scott
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« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2006, 05:14:26 PM »

Picked it up at lunch so I will have impressions tonight, and multiplayer impressions tomorrow.  I couldn't wait to try and deal with Bestbuy, wasn't worth the $5 today.
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« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2006, 05:18:59 PM »

Picking mine up from BB in an hour.  Impressions tonight.
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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2006, 05:47:10 PM »

Another reviewer commented on the Quarter to Three forum thread and said he agreed with Tom Chick.  It is a very good game, and a great bargain.
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« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2006, 06:28:50 PM »

And that other "reviewer" is none other than Bill Abner, one of the very few sports gamers out their that actually knows what he's talking about when he reviews sports titles.  Nice endorsement to say the least.

 
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Kobra
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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2006, 08:31:25 PM »

Well its going to be awhile..

1) Install main game + Patch.
2) Install first expansion + patch
3) Install new expansion.

Ugh.. LOL.
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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2006, 08:36:54 PM »

Am going through the tutorial now.  I'm a completist... what can I say.

Did you guys know that the Tau get Vespid Warriors!?! 

Way cool.  (Possibly only one group allowed though... not sure yet)



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« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2006, 08:38:17 PM »

I picked this up at bestbuy at lunch can't beat the price still have 2 hours of work though uggh.  icon_cry
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« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2006, 09:59:01 PM »

Quote from: Kobra on October 10, 2006, 08:31:25 PM

Well its going to be awhile..

1) Install main game + Patch.
2) Install first expansion + patch
3) Install new expansion.

Ugh.. LOL.

My box says "Does NOT require the original Warhammer 40,000 Dawn of War game to play"
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wonderpug
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« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2006, 10:03:45 PM »

Quote from: Goldchamp on October 10, 2006, 09:59:01 PM

Quote from: Kobra on October 10, 2006, 08:31:25 PM

Well its going to be awhile..

1) Install main game + Patch.
2) Install first expansion + patch
3) Install new expansion.

Ugh.. LOL.

My box says "Does NOT require the original Warhammer 40,000 Dawn of War game to play"

Right, but you need the original to be able to play as the original 4 races, and the 1st expansion to be able to use the 1st expansion's race.
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« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2006, 10:25:19 PM »

Right , but you do not need any of those to play the expansion. But I do understand what you are saying.
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pingwrx
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« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2006, 11:29:25 PM »

Quote from: Goldchamp on October 10, 2006, 10:25:19 PM

Right , but you do not need any of those to play the expansion. But I do understand what you are saying.

You only need the first two if you want to use the other races in multiplayer.
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« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2006, 11:36:59 PM »

Quote from: pingwrx on October 10, 2006, 11:29:25 PM

Quote from: Goldchamp on October 10, 2006, 10:25:19 PM

Right , but you do not need any of those to play the expansion. But I do understand what you are saying.

You only need the first two if you want to use the other races in multiplayer.

Is it the same for single player skirmish?
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pingwrx
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« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2006, 11:51:14 PM »

you have all the races available for single player skirmish.
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Kobra
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« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2006, 12:02:55 AM »

Quote from: pingwrx on October 10, 2006, 11:29:25 PM

Quote from: Goldchamp on October 10, 2006, 10:25:19 PM

Right , but you do not need any of those to play the expansion. But I do understand what you are saying.

You only need the first two if you want to use the other races in multiplayer.

For multiplayer and skirmish, you need the main game + expansions to unlock all of the races.  During installation or Dark Crusade, it specifically asks for CD KEYS to the main game and other expansion to unlock them.  If you don't have valid keys and the games installed, it will only work with the expansion races.
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« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2006, 12:06:48 AM »

I think you just need the keys, not the other games installed.  I had the others installed already, but it still asked for the keys.

First impressions is that the game finally supports 1650x1080 widescreen!  That is a big win, and makes it look nicer.  Necron seem pretty fun.  Played to get the monolith, and it really kicks butt.  I need to up the difficulty.  Otherwise, so far, the graphic upgrade is a big win, and the new races look great.
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« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2006, 12:00:04 PM »

Where to start?  Guess I'll just dive on in.

I played from about 6pm to about midnight last night... nearly straight.   saywhat  I wish I was making that up, but I am not.  To say I lost track of time would be an understatement.  I had numerous people call me to update me on the A's/Tigers game while I was playing.  "Are you watching the game yet, or are you still playing that stupid videogame?"  "Err.... well.... Thanks for the update, gotta run!"

I played mostly skirmishes on Normal/Hard, just to learn the new races and how they work.  I also took the Imperial Guard once to try out their Hvy. Weapons Team and the Eldar to try the Harlequin (which coincidentally is one of my favorite bits of 40k fluff stuff, the whole Harlequin/Black Library crap).  I'm not sure there is a worse Imperial Guard player on the globe, so I won't really sit here and judge them.  I do like the new unit though.  He entrenches very quickly, has good health, and has nice graphic effects, especially the lascannon he can upgrade to.  The main base of the IG now has a ping type "reveal area" button to help you see cloaked units, which is cool too, and can be needed when you need to get rid of pesky cloaked units harassing you.  The Harlequin is too cool.  He/She (I have no clue what gender these Eldar are to be honest... male/female/neither/both... whatever).  I'll call it a female for the sake of argument.  You can apparently make 3 of this acrobatic chick at once.  She kind of bounds all over the place and carries a curved sword of some type.  I guess space elf shemales use swords in space.  Anyway, she has two special powers.  One is the Kiss, which basically makes her take out this microfilament thing and electrocutes/roto-rooters an enemy from the inside out.  Then, when he bites it... his blood coagulates all over his buddies, who take a serious damage hit from his blood.  It just rocks.  The next ability is called the Dance of Death, or something like that.  You click on this button, then choose a group of enemies.  I used the Orks - they seem to like pain.  She basically bounds from Ork slugga to Ork slugga, sticking her sword in them one by one and knocking them down.  I am guessing it's also doing major damage to them.  After a bit, her acrobatic show stops, and she goes into regular attacks.  These include her standing on her head and twirling around as she kicks her enemies with her feet.  It's quite funny.  Other than that, she is relatively fragile with (I'm guessing) about 600-700 health.  Great character.  I have no clue if she can do anything worthwhile to armor.  Oh, and Maccha the Farseer is gone.  There is a new Farseer in town, and she sounds pretty pissed off at the universe. 

I also tried one campaign deal, using the Tau and taking one region, which happened to be contested by the Necron (oh joy!).  After you take a region, you get bonus points that let you buy a retinue of soldiers to leave in your controlled regions as defense.  I'm not sure how that works exactly, but it sounds cool.  You also get to pick wargear to upgrade your, at this point, very basic commander unit.  The Tau get to pick from different guns, to armor upgrades, to jetpacks, to drones.  Pretty neat stuff.

Next, I pretty much skirmished as the Tau and the Necrons against the computer and against my nephew.  The analysis you are about to read (assuming you are actually bored enough at work to read all this) is coming from a very, very, very, average DoW player.  I don't suck, and I'm nowhere near good. 

I'll start with the Necrons, cause, like Tom Chick, I think they are much, much more straightforward and easy to understand.  First off, I agree completely with everyone else who hinted that they play way different than the other races.  They do - and that is a fact.  By now you know all about them, so I'll just spout off some general impressions.  They are s....l....o....w.  Well, their basic infantry are anyway.  They are like walking zombies that just pack a helluva punch at the beginning of the game.  Just 2 groups of their basic warriors with their hero unit can really put a dent in your startup if they come callin'.  Be prepared.  One of the hardest things to get used to is that only their builders can cap points.  Capping points does mean alot to them, contrary to what others have hinted at.  The biggest reason is unit cap.  They need obelisks (which they build on top of strategic points) in order to up their unit cap.  They also help the Necrons to build faster, which is important too I suppose.  Other than that, they are pretty straight forward.  Their troops look pretty similar to me.  They all walk around with these gauss rifles and do good damage to just about anything.  Their vehicles can scoot pretty good.  They are boring looking imo, but they seem to do some good damage too.  Alot is made of the Necron Lord hero unit, and quite frankly, it should be.  This guy is a walking shit-storm just begging for a fight.  He is Tough as nails and due to his teleport abiltiy, somewhat mobile to boot.  He has a bunch of things to choose from to equip himself with.  The more powerful items become available as you tech up, but, he is only allowed to carry 3 things per game, so choose wisely.  In a nutshell, I think the Necron are cool as all hell, but a bit boring.  I do think that for people that like to start games a bit slower than normal, sitting in their base for a bit and taking stock of the situation before heading out into the world, the Necrons will be right up their alley.  One of the cooler units they have is the Tomb Spyder thing.  This guy floats around repairing broken warriors.  He has a special ability that lets him sacrifice health in order to create these really tiny scarab drones that you can reinforce and send into an enemy force.  They die pretty quick to certain things, but can absolutely cause havoc to an undefended enemy base.  Super duper cool unit.

The Tau.  In my early opinion, I think the Tau have longer legs from a strategy/fun perspective.  I wouldn't call them the easiest race to play though.  They have lots of research options and lots of micro-type things they can do if you choose to.  Man... I could talk about them for quite some time, as I really like them alot also, but I think I'll take a break and come back and do it later unless someone beats me to it.  I will just say this for now.  their Broadside battlesuit walker things can go into a siegetank mode (kind of like StarCraft) and they are just fun as all heck to watch, not to mention BRUTAL! 

Overall - Fantastic expansion pack that deserves all the praise it is bound to get in my early opinion.   
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« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2006, 12:38:11 PM »

Quote from: Scott on October 11, 2006, 12:06:48 AM

First impressions is that the game finally supports 1650x1080 widescreen! 

Anyone know if that's retroactive to the previous games?  Picked up the Gold edition a few weeks ago so I'm not exactly ready for Dark Crusade now but if installing it would let me play DoW and WA in widescreen that might push me over the edge. 
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« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2006, 12:56:01 PM »

Quote
Anyone know if that's retroactive to the previous games?  Picked up the Gold edition a few weeks ago so I'm not exactly ready for Dark Crusade now but if installing it would let me play DoW and WA in widescreen that might push me over the edge.
I am guessing no.  It installs in its own directory, and needs its own keys and a new profile.  The graphics really are much better now though with true widescreen and higher resolution support.  You can still skirmish all the old races though, but the campaigns are think you'll have to suffer through with the old video system.  I may be wrong, and I'll try it tonight if no one else comments.  I'd love to be wrong about it.
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« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2006, 12:58:10 PM »

If nothing else it would be nice if they finally patched it *back* in (DoW supported widescreen for a time but one of the patches broke it and it never came back). 
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« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2006, 01:02:23 PM »

Are the Chaplains new for the Space Marines, do did I just not notice them before?  I love the look of the units in the table top game, so its great to see them in the PC game as well.
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« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2006, 01:50:02 PM »

Quote from: Scott on October 11, 2006, 01:02:23 PM

Are the Chaplains new for the Space Marines, do did I just not notice them before?  I love the look of the units in the table top game, so its great to see them in the PC game as well.

Chaplains were always in.
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« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2006, 05:14:16 PM »

I'm concerned about the IGN review saying the strategic AI is weak and never attacks your capital. He also says they tend to make silly attacks and not go after high value areas. Since the Risk-style campaign is my main reason for interest can anyone confirm that the AI will not wipe you off the map?
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« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2006, 09:28:01 PM »

So does this new standalone expansion have all the campaigns, scenarios and maps from the original game? I have the original game, but haven't installed it yet. If I get Dark Crusade, do I not even need to bother with the original game? It's all so confusing.
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« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2006, 10:22:45 PM »

it looks like you can play online with JUST the races from DC if you only have that installed.  THOUGH.  They are all in there.  Since you can play all of them in the single player.  Apparently, from what i gathered over at OO, it seems people are kinda of not sure why they would make a 'stand alone' then not allow use of the other units, IF you dont have the other one installed, YET they are in there anyways.  it seems sort of FUBAR to me as well.

it was a damn big install.  Bigger than DoW, and WA combined.  So I would think that if I HAVE the codes for said games in my reg. I SHOULD be able to use everything, as for MOST people that would be proof that I own the other two.  Though, I suppose you could argue that someone could just MAKE a code allowing you to NOT have to buy the others.

<sigh>

Oh well, I am really enjoying it, even if I did have to go out and buy a DVD drive just for it..frown
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« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2006, 01:31:24 AM »

It's great that you do not need previous titles to play this expansion pack. I really only play single play only so I don't have to worry about installing original titles.
I loved the previous 2 titles and I can't wait to play this one!

I can use my widescreen laptop since previous post mention that it supports widescreen, awesome!
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« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2006, 02:49:01 AM »

Anybody have any leads on whether this is going to be on sale at any of the major retailers this weekend?
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« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2006, 02:51:57 AM »

Quote from: Jimmy the Fish on October 11, 2006, 09:28:01 PM

So does this new standalone expansion have all the campaigns, scenarios and maps from the original game? I have the original game, but haven't installed it yet. If I get Dark Crusade, do I not even need to bother with the original game? It's all so confusing.

As far as I know, you can't play the single-player campaigns from the original DoW or Winter Assault with just Dark Crusade installed.

As for things like multiplayer maps, etc., I haven't checked.

holy crap, the Necrons are crazy.  I'm playing the campaign as the Imperial Guards and my first attack was against a Necron held territory.  The AI just sent its Necron Lord into my base and when I killed it, it would stay there and be resurrected a few minutes later and wreak havoc on my base again.  Eventually I built up a big enough assault force to go hunt down its base and took the territory.

One thing I would've wanted was a slow introduction of new units as I progressed, like in most all other RTS games.  I'm feeling overwhelmed with the new races and figuring out the tech tree and units.  Or something like in RoN where I could set the tech limit.

I love the new blood stains though!!!!

BTW, anyway looking to get this in Canada, best buy has it for 29.99 CDN!!!  Maybe other places are selling at the same pricepoint, but haven't seen it anywhere else yet.
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« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2006, 02:58:01 AM »

Quote from: Calvin on October 12, 2006, 02:49:01 AM

Anybody have any leads on whether this is going to be on sale at any of the major retailers this weekend?

It's on sale at Fry's electronics for $24.99 starting tomorrow bet it extends thru the weekend.
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« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2006, 03:26:34 AM »

Quote from: Calvin on October 12, 2006, 02:49:01 AM

Anybody have any leads on whether this is going to be on sale at any of the major retailers this weekend?

It's on sale this week (ie right now) at Best Buy for $25 I believe. 
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« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2006, 03:34:31 AM »

http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=25052586&sid=6159680

Looks like two more expansions are on the way for the game. THQ/Relic are really starting to milk it dry.
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« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2006, 04:25:32 AM »

Quote from: siege on October 12, 2006, 03:34:31 AM

http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=25052586&sid=6159680

Looks like two more expansions are on the way for the game. THQ/Relic are really starting to milk it dry.
Awesome, I say.  Especially if it's a sequel with updated graphics, etc.
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« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2006, 04:37:44 AM »

Quote from: -Lord Ebonstone- on October 12, 2006, 04:25:32 AM

Quote from: siege on October 12, 2006, 03:34:31 AM

http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=25052586&sid=6159680

Looks like two more expansions are on the way for the game. THQ/Relic are really starting to milk it dry.
Awesome, I say.  Especially if it's a sequel with updated graphics, etc.

I agree, if this is the stuff they keep pumping out.. GO FOR IT.
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« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2006, 05:07:18 AM »

For us lucky canadians...

Futureshop also has it at 29.99.

EBGames says the 17th. ???
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« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2006, 08:30:21 AM »

Not sure how its 'milking' it, as they are still way off from having all the stuff that 40k has for tabletop.
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« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2006, 12:34:05 PM »

Agreed.  Pump out a million expansions as far as I'm concerned. 

Back in the day, I know my friends and I would have given our left arms for more quality StarCraft expansions, yet they never came.

Scott and I had a chance to play a couple multiplayer games last night.  It was more of us trying to learn the new races and how they work together.  The Necrons are a very hard race to describe.  They are so powerful, yet have some obvious weaknesses.  All-in-all, they only have about 10 units to their army.  Compare that to the Tau's 15-18.  Another thing I noticed playing last night, I do not see any cover or exposed icons appear on the Necrons when in Deep Cover or in Water.  I'm not sure if this is an error or if they don't receive bonuses/penalties for these areas.  For a game that already lacks enough of these cool strategy type things, not having this affect them is not something I'm too thrilled about if that is indeed the case.  Anyone know what the deal is with this?

Some of the new maps seem pretty good.  The A.I. can get pretty aggressive at Hard and up, which can make the early games fun.

The multiplayer gamespeed options are a bit wonky.  I'm not sure if it's just connection problems, my computer, sync issues, or what, but putting the game on slower play speeds on lan or internet play makes the animations kind of jerky.  The overall effect is that it does slow the game down a tiny amount, but it looks rather bizarre.  Anyone else notice this?  I find it really funny that playing on SLOW when skirmishing on your own computer is much slower than playing on SLOW over a lan or the internet.  I don't really get it.

The Tau are a fun race to play and watch.  Last night, playing as the Necrons, I spent more time just watching Scott's Tau units engage and wipe out the Chaos than I did managing my own forces.  They have some really neat graphic effects and those blue pulsar lasers are cool as hell, especially the shoulder mounts of the Broadsides. 

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« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2006, 12:44:59 PM »

It'd be great to have a Homeworld 2 like Battlefleet Gothic game, where you had to wrest control of the planets with the current engine, or even CoH's engine. 

Playing online last night was fun.  I had used pause as a crutch a lot, and that didn't fly online.  The Tau are pretty cool, but really fragile.  The first game we played Chaos and the Orcs.  I was able to pretty easily dispatch the Chaos units and base in shooting matches.  The Tau should win these fairly easily.  The Orcs were a different story.  I had jumped to my base for a second, and when I got back to the combat, most of my troops were gone as the Orcs assaulted them.  At that point, Lockdown was beating on the Orcs pretty badly anyway, so I built some more and helped a little.

The Necrons are very easy/powerful to play so far.  I didn't build troops quickly enough (built scarabs) and Lockdown bailed me out early vs more Orcs, but then the Necrons slowly build.  It is very easy to get a fast economy going with the Necrons, letting you pump out new buildings and troops pretty quickly it seems.

Overall really fun.  I should have saved the replays so I could watch what you did Lockdown.

One thing I noticed playing the single player vs the Tau, is that the stealth rules really have changed.  It is a real pain to fight the Tau stealth suits early in the game, which is a real advantage for the Tau.



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« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2006, 01:17:09 PM »

I find the Orks to be a really fun race to play against cause they will sometimes come at you in big hordes, which is a blast.  I think the Necrons will also be a really great race to play against cause they can take such a beating, not to mention what a pain-in-the-butt the Necron Lord can be.  He is my favorite hero in the game now, bar none. 

A couple other very trivial things I've noticed. 

1. They changed the voice/accent of the Ork Nob Squad.  My favorite unit acknowledgment in the game is now completely messed up.  "Move Here! Move There!  Make up your mind already!"  They changed it ever so slightly, and it stinks.  Am I lame to have noticed that?  Yes, I probably am, but we have already established that.   icon_wink

2. They added some lines to the Grotz when they are in trouble.  Totally hilarious stuff.

3. The computer is not too bright in dealing with weaker stealthed units.  As Scott mentioned, the early Tau units are stealthed, and the computer will sometimes run away from decapping points when getting shot at by them, even though their early damage is so pathetic, they wouldn't harm a fly.  Relic should eventually address this.

4. The Necron Lord resurrecting at the point he fell at, is really cool.  This can certainly affect your strategy if playing as or against the Necrons.

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Irongut
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« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2006, 01:45:28 PM »

I thought it was interesting that in order to to capture different provinces within the single player campaign, there are different goals, its not a straightout skirmish each time, which I hadnt caught in the previews/reviews(skim reader that I am).

Just to give some vanilla examples:
For my first province, it was a straightforward Destroy the HQ goal.
2nd region won by earning a certain level of resource
3rd (and where I failed) I had to collect six of something that the enemy race is also trying to collect at the same time.  My enemy here was the Necron and they overwhelmed my Space Marines.  It was a sad day for the Emperor, a good day for the Necron Monolith, not that the machines would notice anyways.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2006, 01:47:57 PM by Irongut » Logged
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« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2006, 12:39:35 PM »

Anymore thoughts?  You guys are awfully quiet.

My latest thoughts are as follows:

1) The Tau have the neatest toys in the game, but I'm picking them up pretty slow.  They are fun, but require lots of attention.

2) The Orks are such a pain in the nuts to play against - which of course makes them fun as heck.

3) Getting behind as the Necrons and then having to claw your way back is challenging.  Using the resurrection orb is fantastically cool, but if the bulk of your wrecked force is pretty far away from your base, and your base is being attacked, it is a major problem.  Even though your Necron Warriors can warp back to any structure, it takes some time for this ability to go active after resurrection, and sometimes you don't have the time to wait.  And God knows the Necron warriors aren't going anywhere fast! 
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"Let your enemies fear, for a harlequin of the Laughing God dances at your side."
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