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Author Topic: Wargame - European Escalation  (Read 3020 times)
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Tals
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« on: February 12, 2012, 10:05:53 AM »

This is one of those games that came out of nowhere for me. By the makers of Ruse, which is probably not a great selling point

http://www.wargame-ee.com/

It comes across as similar to World in Conflict. Having purchased it and briefly played in the MP I would say it is similar in some aspects but its a grander setting, the maps are far bigger and the units more diverse. You are also not limited to a particular type of unit.

This video done by one of the fans gives a great idea on how to play the game and what the game is about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVeNnQT7uF4

I preordered it which gets you straight into the beta via steam. Its an mp beta but you can set up and play with noone so if you want to get yourself comfortable with the controls etc that is possible.

Tals
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« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2012, 12:21:57 PM »

Too funny.  When I was looking at this on Steam the other day, I went to the official website and looked at what the game was all about, and the first person I thought of was Tals.  It reminded me so much of WoC, and I remember how much you loved that game.

Let us know what you think after you've spent some good time with it please.
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Tals
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« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2012, 01:38:39 PM »

smile QT3 has some impressions, positive and negative but i'd agree - start believing me if i'm playing this after a few weeks smile
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2012, 06:48:57 AM »

This video gives a better idea of gameplay from diplex
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgQ2lcm4iZM&feature=plcp&context=C3d445edUDOEgsToPDskIq99vryPA3XY1J75V8W0KC
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 05:08:43 PM »

Looks fun but also looks like there's rather limited or Poor AI and massive amounts of unit micromanagement needed...which i just can't understand the appeal of in a real time multiplayer environment....in single player with pause and issue orders, possibly...

When's a game gonna let us be generals who don't have to micro manage every unit and supply truck?

The game looks awesome to me in the game's actual trailers but then i watch the actual gameplay movies linked and think "oh hell no, i'd play that once and get way too frustrated with the massive amounts of real time micro management while trying to coordinate a large scale battle". 

Why can't you assign a supply truck convoy to a unit of tanks or artillery and have it automagically make supply runs to the FOB and back with ammo and fuel....  it makes no sense having to watch that guy struggle with constantly microing his supply trucks around as he's running out of fuel every few minutes and ammo every rocket barrage.

Just...wow...  I want to be the general without being the effing truck driver for 30 different trucks.
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2012, 04:14:49 AM »

I think it is interesting that there is a suggestions thread in the forum and I don't think anyone has requested an easier system for supply smile

The thread is worth a read as a suggestion can give an idea what players feel is missing
http://www.wargame-ee.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1333

 in terms of how it works in game, you get your supply truck to a position and it then supplies all the units in the vicinity so they don't have to physically touch a unit. The game certainly makes you very aware of supply issue you would face but that for instance makes it a reasonable strategy to take out supply lines and having an easy way to supply I don't think would fit with the game. Micromanagement wise, yes it's massive on micro - other than not being able to see where units are going I don't think it's a huge issue but I can understand the concern. Bear in mind the first video was by a seasoned beta player and the second by effectively a noob player that had only a few games under their belt. The game does track your actions per minute and a vet pointed out he does around 10 a minute which is probably nothing compared to say Starcraft 2

In terms of ai - again if you mean your own, that is the game. If you mean for playing against the computer that facet isn't yet in game so can't say.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 04:16:31 AM by Tals » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2012, 03:28:09 PM »

I could really enjoy a game like this, but as i said, not if i have to micro supplies and stuff..

If that's what the niche players who are gonna buy this want...fine.  But there'd have to be some kind of system where i could assign trucks to groups of units and have them automatically drive to them, supply them, return to base when out of supplies, then go back out. 

It'd still have all the ability to interrupt supply lines and everything in the game now but you wouldn't have to micro supply trucks to all your different groups of units.

It's a deal breaker for me, but if you love it....that's great for you i guess.

I went back and picked up world in conflict over the weekend, which i'd played the demo for back when it was released and loved it and i'm really unsure why it seems i never actually bought the game.  It's really good. Have started playin it and find it very enjoyable.
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Tals
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2012, 04:07:46 PM »

In terms of control the two games are very similar, the main difference is that in this one you need to think about supply and some of the user interface in EE is not as good - but the ability to play 1v1 I love and as well as the ability to play all the units, graphics are a lot better in this.

The micro is strange, it's not as bad as it may appear - when I play you very much focus on battles that are occuring and trying to out manoeuvre your opponent, the first 5/10 minutes of the game may not see any action as you try and set up your positions. I've been playing around with dropping special forces at the enemy base, seems to have a reasonable success - though need to get used to getting them back in transport and away. The delay to load into helis is quite intentionally painful frown But certainly you tend to pull into battles as needed, I think it works. I've also learnt that using move fast makes a huge difference to how far your units can move smile Early days though
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2012, 08:52:20 PM »

Quote from: Fuzzballx on February 20, 2012, 03:28:09 PM

I could really enjoy a game like this, but as i said, not if i have to micro supplies and stuff..

If that's what the niche players who are gonna buy this want...fine.  But there'd have to be some kind of system where i could assign trucks to groups of units and have them automatically drive to them, supply them, return to base when out of supplies, then go back out. 

It'd still have all the ability to interrupt supply lines and everything in the game now but you wouldn't have to micro supply trucks to all your different groups of units.


I would also love to have the supply trucks be automatically managed. If done right it could even be an aspect of the strategy itself. For example, I assume that the supply trucks don't care which units they are supplying in the current version of the game. But what if you could designate the supply trucks to only supply a certain type of unit. Such as "Supply Company A, only supply armored units. Supply Company B, only supply arty units". Then you could be sure to count on your trucks being full of supply for those critical units rather than peddling it out for units that you don't really care about at the moment. Or, on the other hand, you could have the supply trucks supply any unit in the region and just have them follow a designated path.

In addition to the "automatically follow and supply" option you could specify other factors. Such as "Go back to HQ for more supply when at 50%, 25% or completely empty". Then give the player the option to manually redirect half empty or quarter empty supply trucks if a unit needs supply at a critical moment.

Finally, I would expect that it would be easier for lines of supply to be interdicted when they are auto-managed by the AI instead of microed by the player. I know I could completely forget about my supply trucks after putting them on auto-resupply until I see my tanks aren't getting resupplied. Then I would be vulnerable to enemy raiders destroying my supply trucks. If I were to micro them however, I could see myself baby-sitting them or flicking back to them every 10-15 seconds, thus making it harder for the enemy to sneak attack my trucks.
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Tals
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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2012, 09:43:07 PM »

It's really not a big deal - as I tried to intimate if no other players view this as critical it isn't impacting gameplay for those currently playing it. Really hard to explain the games but they are a lot of fun and each game at the moment I'm learning more where I made a strategic error or should have thought about x units etc - not played a game like this before. I did discover shift allows you to stack orders so I can set a unit to a waypoint, unload and have him return - though this doesnn't work for supply. Supply also repairs so is quite a critical benefit if used correctly - particularly with infantry or high powered low ammo units.

Now I have played it more I think it is totally intentional the micro management aspect as you get down and dirty as battles develop and it does work - but for those who fear mm they're have to wait for a demo smile
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 09:45:05 PM by Tals » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2012, 11:31:40 PM »

Quote from: Tals on February 20, 2012, 09:43:07 PM

It's really not a big deal.... if no other players view this as critical it isn't impacting gameplay for those currently playing it

etc
etc

So because we're not playing it cause there's some things like this preventing us from buying it and getting the beta, our opinion doesn't count as to whats a big deal...

Maybe if the only big deals are the ones guys who are willing to pre-buy a game where you micro supply trucks all match around bring up and care about, it can stay a really small niche game.

Parts of the game look REALLY promising, i'm not bashing your pick of a game this month, as I i'd really like it...without having to micro supply all game.

Commanders/generals have staff for directing supply trucks.

qualifies as a really big deal to me whether you care about it or not.
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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2012, 12:17:17 AM »

I would have to assume that if something keeps people from playing it, it should be even more important than something that affects people who are playing.  At least the things that affect people already playing obviously aren't irritating enough to keep them from playing or they would be in the first group.
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« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2012, 12:18:58 AM »

I have played some beta mp games, I don't think supply is too micro managing intensive (of course I would love to see a supply system in which the truck will auto return to FOB when empty then return to action, I also wish there is unit ghosting when ordered to position, so I know which unit goes where).

The most important part of game is to get your mix of units into proper position, either flank the enemy unit or overwhelm them or use cover to ambush.  The supply issue only come up when your unit has to go long way from starting point to across map, or after intensive combat, that's why it is wise to send a supply truck or two along with your initial deployment.  

Also the supply truck is so slow even with the upgrade ones if not using road, I have not used supply chopper, as they are kind expansive to use and lose, it is way easier to order another cheap supply truck from closer reinforcement point to supply the units as needed than order the original supply truck back to FOB to resupply then back, I mean time wise it is not worth it.  I return those truck to FOB if I remember, but otherwise they will just stay on the front line.  There are times, I was using forward artillery, and the supply is used up really quickly, I had to send supply convoy constantly from nearby reinforcement point, it is funny to see after a while there a lot empty trucks in the area.  
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Tals
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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2012, 06:39:03 AM »

Quote from: Harkonis on February 21, 2012, 12:17:17 AM

I would have to assume that if something keeps people from playing it, it should be even more important than something that affects people who are playing.  At least the things that affect people already playing obviously aren't irritating enough to keep them from playing or they would be in the first group.

That is kind of what I am saying but I'm really saying that if you were playing it wouldn't be that big a deal and you may eventually agree with the call on how it works smile I think Storz said it more eloquently than I do smile hark you know me I am the most fumble fisted player on this earth, in capable of stringing attack sequences in demigod or lol and I'm enjoying a game you all feel is too micro managed smile

I've just stopped playing lol as I'm enjoying this so much and that's just on the mp element smile

Storz, what's your ingame tag, mine is tals.
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2012, 02:30:43 PM »

Quote from: Fuzzballx on February 17, 2012, 05:08:43 PM

When's a game gonna let us be generals who don't have to micro manage every unit and supply truck?

They do exist, just not in any kind of high-end 3D graphics form that I recall seeing. What does come to mind are the Command Ops or Airborne Assault series from Panther Games or the recently released (and well received) Steam and Iron from NWS, which clocks in at a whopping 3MB download.  icon_wink
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storz
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« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2012, 05:08:03 PM »

Quote from: Tals on February 21, 2012, 06:39:03 AM

Storz, what's your ingame tag, mine is tals.

Ingame tag: StorzOO. 

There are some good replay that can show you the tactics involved, like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUo1Ner0Rew
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« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2012, 07:43:37 PM »

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on February 21, 2012, 02:30:43 PM

Quote from: Fuzzballx on February 17, 2012, 05:08:43 PM

When's a game gonna let us be generals who don't have to micro manage every unit and supply truck?

They do exist, just not in any kind of high-end 3D graphics form that I recall seeing. What does come to mind are the Command Ops or Airborne Assault series from Panther Games or the recently released (and well received) Steam and Iron from NWS, which clocks in at a whopping 3MB download.  icon_wink

Armoured Brigade was also recommended to me http://www.armoredbrigade.com/. Would be interested, in another thread, if anyone downloads it (it's free) and tries it.
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« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2012, 08:09:11 PM »

Quote from: storz on February 21, 2012, 05:08:03 PM

Quote from: Tals on February 21, 2012, 06:39:03 AM

Storz, what's your ingame tag, mine is tals.

Ingame tag: StorzOO.  

There are some good replay that can show you the tactics involved, like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUo1Ner0Rew

Interesting video and a good watch, anyone fancy putting their hand up if they saw a single supply truck - is that a QED smile

* tell a lie I can see them but hopefully it makes it clear what a non issue the supply side is done if play correctly
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 08:10:44 PM by Tals » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2012, 11:54:15 PM »

I would recommend Unity of Command. It's kind of Panzer General-ish but at $30 ($15 for the Mac beta) its way cheaper than HTTR or BFTB and it has a great UI  and wonderful supply system.
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« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2012, 07:47:09 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88CopHGsTD8&list=UUJFaxhCKy1A0pwKECFvMNFA&index=1&feature=plcp

Good video, does show the micro manage element, good defense setup though, no commentary.
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« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2012, 03:42:06 PM »

I admit to being tempted by this game especially with the 10% preorder discount and 15% ign discount bringing it down to $30. But I've never been able to get pas the tutorial of RUSE so I worry that I might just be throwing away my money.
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Tals
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« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2012, 07:08:05 PM »

Looks like they are aiming to turn it on shortly smile

http://www.wargame-ee.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1876
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« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2012, 04:57:30 AM »

Anyone know if there is a demo planned?
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« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2012, 06:09:02 AM »

Quote from: Punisher on February 23, 2012, 04:57:30 AM

Anyone know if there is a demo planned?

Not seen any comment re a demo but ruse had one so I would guess one will appear at some point.
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« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2012, 12:16:53 PM »

Played some MP game last night, seems they significantly reduced xp you can earn for MP games icon_cry, so here is a quick tip: play some single player games first, it will give you a leg up, as it seems solo play will also give you command points to unlock stuff.  I played 2 solo mission, and was able to unlock bunch stuff.  The Solo portion of the game is not too bad, there are 4 operations availiable, and each has bunch missions for solo play, and I was disappointed that I was only able to do 1 vs. 1 skirmish vs AI.
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« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2012, 12:47:34 PM »

I'd agree on the 1v1 aspect, but not a biggie - if I had a team i was probably going the pvp route anyway. I was planning on playing some of the campaign anyway as hopefully it will assist with understanding the game mechanics
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« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2012, 05:09:37 PM »

Quote from: Tals on February 23, 2012, 12:47:34 PM

I'd agree on the 1v1 aspect, but not a biggie - if I had a team i was probably going the pvp route anyway. I was planning on playing some of the campaign anyway as hopefully it will assist with understanding the game mechanics

Actually according to the official forum, Coop against AI will be availibe in a month or so.

Quote
Hi all,

We are implementing the ability to play multiplayer againt AI.
We didn't know prior to Open Beta that this feature was so important for the community.
A big part of the Eugen Team is working to implement this feature as fast as we can.

We will have the ability to play multiplayer againt AI before 1 month.
We are doing our best to implement this as fast as possible.

We will keep you informed.



http://www.wargame-ee.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1021&p=22566#p22566
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« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2012, 06:31:21 PM »

I've been pleasantly surprised with these devs, from how they have interacted with the players to this and also the early release just says they are gamers at heart as well smile

Good stuff
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« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2012, 05:08:49 AM »

How is the single player game? I have almost no interest in multi-player for this, so I'm wondering if the SP portion is worth it....
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« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2012, 05:56:17 AM »

Quote from: Punisher on February 25, 2012, 05:08:49 AM

How is the single player game? I have almost no interest in multi-player for this, so I'm wondering if the SP portion is worth it....

Not sure how long the campaign is, it's 16 scenarios in all. I'm on number 4 which is significantly more difficult than the previous ones. Not touched mp since release as I am enjoying these so much. Number 3 took about 30 mins for me, number 4 is longer. Though that could be my ineptness strategically. It also has 1 v ai on all the maps. All the campaign scenarios have a target score - non I have maxed yet and can be replayed.

Hmm. Yeah I think it is probably worth it, but possibly get another view smile
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« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2012, 03:42:08 PM »

Quote from: Punisher on February 25, 2012, 05:08:49 AM

How is the single player game? I have almost no interest in multi-player for this, so I'm wondering if the SP portion is worth it....

Single player game is pretty good, and the AI is pretty good too. 

Just give you an example of the AI from last night play: I'm playing the 4th German mission, and it is lot tougher than the missions before. I used all my force push on the right and captured 1 main and secondary objectives across the river, but I forgot to leave any meaningful defense at my starting base.  As I was getting ready to push my force to the left side, I see 4 T-72s accompanied by Mi-2 recon helicopter and 2 Mi-24 gunships rushed my starting base and crushed my weak defense, before I can react, my starting base with 2 FOBs is captured, and I lost my artillery,  then the AI actually called in rocket artillery at my start base, and pounded my advance for the left side.  Needless to say I quit after that.
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« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2012, 08:59:13 PM »

I'm thinking of picking this up..you said you can play the multiplayer maps against the ai?   Also, are there nukes in the game  icon_twisted?
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« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2012, 09:02:27 PM »

Quote from: dback99 on February 26, 2012, 08:59:13 PM

I'm thinking of picking this up..you said you can play the multiplayer maps against the ai?   Also, are there nukes in the game  icon_twisted?

No nukes, on a 1v1 basis you can play against the ai. If you are looking more for a coop challenge then you need to wait a few weeks when they are going to bring that in. The campaign imho is very good and very replayable.
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« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2012, 09:04:48 PM »

Nice....I'm more of a single player person anyway, so the bot thing is always a nice choice...with 3 kids, tough to shedule mp with friends...thanks for the info!!!
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« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2012, 09:05:28 PM »

Quote from: dback99 on February 26, 2012, 09:04:48 PM

Nice....I'm more of a single player person anyway, so the bot thing is always a nice choice...with 3 kids, tough to shedule mp with friends...thanks for the info!!!

1v1 mp takes around 20 minutes so is a pretty good mp for pickup and a quick match smile
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« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2012, 04:42:26 AM »

I wasn't planning on getting this one for quite a while but a UK game website had it on for the equivalent of about $15 so I picked it up! Just played through the first mission only and damn it seems pretty fun! Of course it was only the first mission so later missions might end up being a little overwhelming for me as new units are unlocked and there's no pause but so far it seems like a perfect balance between the arcadey RTS games and the more hardcore simulators like Combat Mission.
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« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2012, 06:24:12 AM »

Quote from: Canuck on March 15, 2012, 04:42:26 AM

I wasn't planning on getting this one for quite a while but a UK game website had it on for the equivalent of about $15 so I picked it up! Just played through the first mission only and damn it seems pretty fun! Of course it was only the first mission so later missions might end up being a little overwhelming for me as new units are unlocked and there's no pause but so far it seems like a perfect balance between the arcadey RTS games and the more hardcore simulators like Combat Mission.

I love the feel of the game and suspect I'll keep cracking it open from time to time, the cautious play feels more 'right' than the other war setting rts. My only issue is the play gets quite deep:intense/hard as the missions move on which has stopped me playing it more. 1v1 mp was very good in beta and I need to try that
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