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Author Topic: Vista bad for gaming  (Read 3902 times)
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Lee
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« on: January 10, 2007, 05:08:26 AM »

Just wanted to comment on the news article.

WildTangent from what I know is a source of adware/spyware and only really has one game that got them any respect, Fate. So for them to say that Vista will be bad for downloading games, I take it with a grain of salt.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2007, 05:54:25 AM by Lee » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2007, 05:40:04 AM »

Quote from: Lee on January 10, 2007, 05:08:26 AM

Just wanted to comment on the news article.

WildTangent from I know is a source of adware/spyware and only really has one game that got them any respect, Fate. So for them to say that Vista will be bad for downloading games, I take it with a grain of salt.

Could you please link the news article Lee? Makes it a bit harder to follow your train of thought, this was pretty random to me until I figured out what article you were referring to. But yes, I agree with you. I take WildTangent's comments with a huge grain of salt-anything that keeps spyware out of downloadables is ok with me.
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2007, 05:53:43 AM »

Sorry, you're right. Here it is.
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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2007, 07:16:15 AM »

See, and this is what bothers me.

This adware schmuck is whining about LUA's, when that is all OSX IS... the accounts are all locked down, and no one has root access to the system (without knowing what you're doing, mind you). When you install non-windows OS's, accounts are not given root access by default. By limiting the user to user-mode areas, the kernel mode can run as it was designed to, without users accidentally installing crap software *cough*WildTangent*cough* that does more than it should in terms of system functions.

Since the average user isn't going to care, what is the problem? People who SHOULD be dinking around with the settings are fine, the people who shouldn't be CAN'T, including WildTangent, an eyesore of the "gaming" world.

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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2007, 12:26:41 PM »

It's my understanding that this is the sort of thing that has made the Mac platform so resistant to viruses and other malware.  I wish Windows asked for a password before installing anything to prevent anyone but me -cough- girlfriend -cough- from installing stuff I don't want.
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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2007, 01:22:37 PM »

Yes, thanks for the mention here. For a "company" like WildTangent to be whining about what they can and cannot do is hardly representative of what Vista will do for gaming. Frankly, after battling for days trying to uninstall one of the games a couple years ago I avoid them like the plague.
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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2007, 04:57:34 PM »

Wildtangent installs something like 6 extra drivers and other bullshit on your PC everytime you want to play one of their games.  Several of the processes remain running AFTER the game is exited.

If that asshole Alex St.John and his little billion dollar spyware company is upset, I am happy.
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2007, 06:05:13 PM »

The enemy of my enemy is not neccesarily my friend. Remeber that. Just because Wild Tangent sucks (or, let's even stretch it to say the PS3), that doesn't mean that Microsoft rulez.

Vista seems really shitty. From everything I've read, it sounds like a disaster for gamers.
Yeah, I'm just going to plop that out there and not back it up. So what?
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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2007, 06:08:00 PM »

I don't know what you are reading, man.  Everything I've read makes me really eager to game on Vista.

I posted some stuff about the Live service which "Games for Vista" will be using a few days ago.  Also, there are going to be some really amazing OS features, especially when coupled with some of the new hardware coming down the pipe (like hybrid hard drives).
« Last Edit: January 10, 2007, 06:09:55 PM by unbreakable » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2007, 06:11:26 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 10, 2007, 06:08:00 PM

I don't know what you are reading, man.  Everything I've read makes me really eager to game on Vista.

I posted some stuff about the Live service which "Games for Vista" will be using a few days ago.  Also, there are going to be some really amazing OS features, especially when coupled with some of the new hardware coming down the pipe (like hybrid hard drives).

I am super eager for Vista. I have had enough problems with XP over my time with it that I am ready to move on, and I will likely be an early adopter.
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« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2007, 06:38:49 PM »

I'm predicting Vista will be as much of an evolution in computing in the whole as Windows 95 was in it's day.

If anyone thinks it's just a reskinned XP, they haven't looked into it much.
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« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2007, 07:51:56 PM »

Yes, I am eagerly looking forward to Vista.  XP shaped up to be a great OS, but the improved security and the enhanced multimedia features Vista brings will be very nice.
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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2007, 08:00:48 PM »

Vista is going to be HUGE for gaming, simply because it brings the first update in over a decade to Solitaire, which has got to be the most widely played computer game ever.  (Not to mention Minesweeper, Hearts, and Freecell!)
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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2007, 08:49:07 PM »

I will be a late adopter for Vista for sure.. Microsoft cannot be trusted on release with OS's IMO.

Also, I love how Hardware vendors are all pumped about Vista, and its tougher hardware requirements are ringing the cash registers of their bean counters for increased sales/profits.  Something doesn't smell right about it all, so I will sit on the sidelines and watch the situation unfold. 

I think Vista is way overpriced as well, you can bet I will be seeking creative ways to aquire it, probably sometime after SP1 is released.
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« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2007, 10:41:29 PM »

I wouldn't buy a new computer for Vista just yet.

There are a TON of new features, but not much of the hardware which will take advantage of them is out just yet (the Hybrid Hard Drives being a big one).  Once some of the new stuff comes out, I want to get a Vista gaming rig.  But hey, DX10 cards aren't even out, either.
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Lee
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« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2007, 12:51:24 AM »

Only read good stuff about Vista, that's why I was surprised on the GT news article. Been running Vista Beta myself and I like it.

Been a day 1 adopter of every major MS home OS, and never had a problem.
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« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2007, 12:56:28 AM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 10, 2007, 10:41:29 PM

But hey, DX10 cards aren't even out, either.

I thought the nVidia 8800 series supported DirectX 10.
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« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2007, 01:33:11 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on January 11, 2007, 12:56:28 AM

Quote from: unbreakable on January 10, 2007, 10:41:29 PM

But hey, DX10 cards aren't even out, either.

I thought the nVidia 8800 series supported DirectX 10.

I was under that impression as well, and I was also under the impression that DX10 would improve even dx9 only vid cards. Am I wrong?
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« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2007, 02:00:36 AM »

I'll try to find an appropriate article.  I think the issue is that the current cards are "compatible", but don't take advantage of all the features in DX10.  Kind of the same thing which happened with DX9.
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« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2007, 01:39:27 PM »

Quote from: Kobra on January 10, 2007, 08:49:07 PM

I will be a late adopter for Vista for sure.. Microsoft cannot be trusted on release with OS's IMO.

Also, I love how Hardware vendors are all pumped about Vista, and its tougher hardware requirements are ringing the cash registers of their bean counters for increased sales/profits.  Something doesn't smell right about it all, so I will sit on the sidelines and watch the situation unfold. 

I think Vista is way overpriced as well, you can bet I will be seeking creative ways to aquire it, probably sometime after SP1 is released.

No offense Kobra, but is there anything that you don't think is overpriced?  Is there anything that you buy on Day 1?

I'm with you on this one, every OS from MS is overpriced, and I have concerns on stability for Vista, but it seems like the same song and dance for every product with you.  How do you live that far behind the curve?  I'd go insane...love my toys. smile
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« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2007, 04:27:24 PM »

Personally I am excited for it and want to get it as soon as I can find a reasonably priced way to do so. 
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« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2007, 04:37:56 PM »

Quote from: farley2k on January 11, 2007, 04:27:24 PM

Personally I am excited for it and want to get it as soon as I can find a reasonably priced way to do so. 

I'm supposed to get a copy for participating in a few seminars with them.  By the time it arrives a patch or two should be out.  My XP install is probably on its last legs, so...good timing.
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« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2007, 04:38:09 PM »

I'm looking forward to having Vista up and running but I'm dreading the reformat/reinstallation of my machine.  It's been a long, long time since I've done a reformat and it will be a huge pain getting everything back and up and running. 
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« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2007, 04:41:35 PM »

I tend to reformat/reinstall once a year or so.  Usually because I've f'd something up.   finger

As far as Vista goes, I've got a lot of older games I still want to finish so it'll be awhile.  I didn't upgrade to XP until it had been out for a year or two and I expect Vista will be the same way.
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« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2007, 04:58:24 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on January 11, 2007, 04:37:56 PM

My XP install is probably on its last legs, so...good timing.

yeah, mine is too.  I was going to do a reinstall, but all I own is an actual copy of XP that was installed on a machine that is long gone and I really don't feel like dealing with MS to get XP activated on a brand new machine.
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« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2007, 05:03:49 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on January 11, 2007, 04:58:24 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on January 11, 2007, 04:37:56 PM

My XP install is probably on its last legs, so...good timing.

yeah, mine is too.  I was going to do a reinstall, but all I own is an actual copy of XP that was installed on a machine that is long gone and I really don't feel like dealing with MS to get XP activated on a brand new machine.

I have Windows 95, then I bought the Win 98 Upgrade, then I bought the Win XP Upgrade.  I wonder if i can get by with only buying the Vista Upgrade package or if they'll make me pay for the regular version.
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« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2007, 05:32:44 PM »

If you buy XP from some of the online retailers, you'll get a free upgrade to Vista. I saw this at newegg, though there were reports of asshatery by MS.
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« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2007, 06:12:11 PM »

Quote
We have found many of the security changes planned for Vista alarming and likely to present sweeping challenges for PC gaming, especially for online distributed games. The central change that impacts all downloadable applications in Vista is the introduction of Limited User Accounts. LUA's can already be found in Windows XP, but nobody uses them because of the onerous restrictions they place on usability. In Vista, LUA's are mandatory and inescapable. Although Microsoft made some effort to soften the obstructions LUA's place in the path of installing software in Vista, they still present a tremendous obstacle to downloadable game distribution and game compatibility with Vista in general.

The principal user experience problem with LUA's is that when a consumer wants to download and install a game demo off the Internet, they must first click past the IE warning dialogs, and then respond to the security elevation dialog Vista pops up requiring an admin account name and password to enable the software installation.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=12314
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« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2007, 06:28:16 PM »

Confirmation on installation is, IMO, a good thing.  It prevents idiot companies from installing stuff you don't want.

And, since WildTangent started out as a spyware company, they don't really have credibility in that regard. 

A few months back, there was a joint statement from McAfee and Norton about how, supposedly, Vista was impossible to create a virus scanner for without access to the Vista source code.  Um... I think they wrote anti-viruses without access to the Win95/98/ME/NT/2000/XP source codes, didn't they?  Their claim really went south once a few anti-virus companies stated their products were ALREADY Vista ready, and all it required on their part was planning for the new OS.

When I see stuff like this, it just shows me how some companies really don't want to change their product at all, or have their programmers learn how to work on the updated platform.  It's a "cookie cutter" mentality.
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« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2007, 08:56:26 PM »

I just read the first two pages of it, felt others may find it interesting as well:

Interview with John Carmack.  He gives some of his thoughts on Vista, consoles, etc.
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« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2007, 09:30:38 PM »

Quote from: warning on January 11, 2007, 04:41:35 PM

I tend to reformat/reinstall once a year or so.  Usually because I've f'd something up.   finger

As far as Vista goes, I've got a lot of older games I still want to finish so it'll be awhile.  I didn't upgrade to XP until it had been out for a year or two and I expect Vista will be the same way.

I reformat at least 4 times a year. I have no fears of this and am actually very excited to upgrade to it. I have a few older games here, but only 2-3 maybe that I want to play so much I might hesitate to upgrade. Given my recent stability problems, I am very willing to give Vista a try.
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« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2007, 09:46:21 PM »

I've actually noticed that, with 2000/XP, I've been doing wipes far less than previously.

I think a major part of it is, quite honestly, staying away from demo software.  Another is that I'm very reluctant to install software on my gaming rig.  Now I maintain two computers, one for gaming, the other for utility (CD/DVD burning, etc).  Since I have no need to keep the second computer running in peak condition, the only thing I need to care about is that the web browser runs at an acceptable speed (since that is where the majority of it's usage ends up).
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« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2007, 11:00:35 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 11, 2007, 09:46:21 PM

I've actually noticed that, with 2000/XP, I've been doing wipes far less than previously.

I think a major part of it is, quite honestly, staying away from demo software.  Another is that I'm very reluctant to install software on my gaming rig.  Now I maintain two computers, one for gaming, the other for utility (CD/DVD burning, etc).  Since I have no need to keep the second computer running in peak condition, the only thing I need to care about is that the web browser runs at an acceptable speed (since that is where the majority of it's usage ends up).
I am going to try to do that next time I upgrade, and it sounds like a great idea.
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« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2007, 12:13:57 AM »

I'm waiting for a few next-gen pieces of hard drives to come out (like a hybrid hard drive... although I may splurge for a fully solid-state hard drive if the price is acceptable), and at that time I want to have my current computer become my 2nd.  It's already my media center, so it will be mostly doing that and the utility duty.

When I was designing networks, I always wanted to spread out duties among servers, with the most important tasks having machines dedicated just to that task.  And it always worked out great that way, so I started bringing that concept home.  I almost always had more than one PC, but never really thought about doing it that way until a few years ago.  It all started with doing CD burning on my second PC, since tying up my main rig with it became annoying.
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« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2007, 02:23:00 AM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 12, 2007, 12:13:57 AM

I'm waiting for a few next-gen pieces of hard drives to come out (like a hybrid hard drive... although I may splurge for a fully solid-state hard drive if the price is acceptable), and at that time I want to have my current computer become my 2nd.  It's already my media center, so it will be mostly doing that and the utility duty.

When I was designing networks, I always wanted to spread out duties among servers, with the most important tasks having machines dedicated just to that task.  And it always worked out great that way, so I started bringing that concept home.  I almost always had more than one PC, but never really thought about doing it that way until a few years ago.  It all started with doing CD burning on my second PC, since tying up my main rig with it became annoying.

Dude-all I want on my new gaming rig (which is still a pipe dream) is a mid range core2 duo (6400), a middle range graphics card (nvidia 7950), 2gigs of ram, and ill move my old hdd over. Thats all I need-and I can use my old stuff for the server/burning rig.
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« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2007, 04:22:42 AM »

Quote from: Calvin on January 12, 2007, 02:23:00 AM

Dude-all I want on my new gaming rig (which is still a pipe dream) is a mid range core2 duo (6400), a middle range graphics card (nvidia 7950), 2gigs of ram, and ill move my old hdd over. Thats all I need-and I can use my old stuff for the server/burning rig.

+1.  hell, that's the same specs I'm looking at myself.
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« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2007, 05:37:04 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on January 12, 2007, 04:22:42 AM

Quote from: Calvin on January 12, 2007, 02:23:00 AM

Dude-all I want on my new gaming rig (which is still a pipe dream) is a mid range core2 duo (6400), a middle range graphics card (nvidia 7950), 2gigs of ram, and ill move my old hdd over. Thats all I need-and I can use my old stuff for the server/burning rig.

+1.  hell, that's the same specs I'm looking at myself.
Well you can price it for a very reasonable amount of about 750, but man, thats so far out of my range right now frown
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« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2007, 03:58:16 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on January 12, 2007, 02:23:00 AM

Quote from: unbreakable on January 12, 2007, 12:13:57 AM

I'm waiting for a few next-gen pieces of hard drives to come out (like a hybrid hard drive... although I may splurge for a fully solid-state hard drive if the price is acceptable), and at that time I want to have my current computer become my 2nd.  It's already my media center, so it will be mostly doing that and the utility duty.

When I was designing networks, I always wanted to spread out duties among servers, with the most important tasks having machines dedicated just to that task.  And it always worked out great that way, so I started bringing that concept home.  I almost always had more than one PC, but never really thought about doing it that way until a few years ago.  It all started with doing CD burning on my second PC, since tying up my main rig with it became annoying.

Dude-all I want on my new gaming rig (which is still a pipe dream) is a mid range core2 duo (6400), a middle range graphics card (nvidia 7950), 2gigs of ram, and ill move my old hdd over. Thats all I need-and I can use my old stuff for the server/burning rig.

I'm waiting for the hybrid hard drive for (almost) one reason: the ability to boot into Windows in a few seconds.

Once the Media Center becomes my 2nd PC, I won't have to keep the gaming rig on all the time.
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« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2007, 04:09:52 PM »

Carmack blasts Vista gaming initiative:

Quote
While Carmack remains keen on Xbox 360, he thinks the Vista initiative is bogus, accusing Microsoft of using the new OS's "artificial" tie with DirectX 10 to lure consumers (and developers). "They're really grasping at straws for reasons to upgrade the operating system. I suspect I could run XP for a great many more years without having a problem with it," concluded Carmack. Good news for those content with XP.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/11/carmack-blasts-vista-gaming-initiative/
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« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2007, 04:21:13 PM »

Quote from: corruptrelic on January 12, 2007, 04:09:52 PM

Carmack blasts Vista gaming initiative:

Quote
While Carmack remains keen on Xbox 360, he thinks the Vista initiative is bogus, accusing Microsoft of using the new OS's "artificial" tie with DirectX 10 to lure consumers (and developers). "They're really grasping at straws for reasons to upgrade the operating system. I suspect I could run XP for a great many more years without having a problem with it," concluded Carmack. Good news for those content with XP.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/11/carmack-blasts-vista-gaming-initiative/


I'll be playing Crysis on my DX10 machine while he is trying to think of how to make more deep shades of black and brown textures for Doom 4...
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