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Author Topic: Valve bans Pirates  (Read 4266 times)
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BigRedCat
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« on: November 23, 2004, 04:44:21 PM »

As noted on the main page:

http://www.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?s=a947b2b04e4b005f910c72d32e2220b0&threadid=184810&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

I read somewhere around 20000 accounts were banned. That's awesome.
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Gryndyl
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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2004, 05:01:18 PM »

Yep, a mod posted that in a different thread-20,000 accounts pWn3d
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AttAdude
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2004, 05:02:55 PM »

Does this really make any difference at all?
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jonsauce
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2004, 05:04:58 PM »

Hell yeah it does.  Read the thread.  There's a few people complaining about it.  Thats a few(2,000 or 20,000 or so) criminals that got punished and that makes me happy.

Valve views this as credit card fraud so I'm all for them cancelling these people's accounts.
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BigRedCat
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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2004, 05:10:07 PM »

Quote from: "AttAdude"
Does this really make any difference at all?


Actually it makes more difference in the future. Who wants to try and pirate HL3? Sure some will try and probably succeed while most will either just buy it or wait a long while to see the fallout. Thus less piracy in the end.

Valve is setting standards that need to be in place for the industry.

I LIKE release dates that stick and pirates getting screwed.
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jonsauce
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« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2004, 05:13:01 PM »

Haha, this guy is classic.  He started out with a totally different story and eventually switched to this one, which I think is real.

Quote



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« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2004, 05:16:31 PM »

The cracked version with a patch works fine.  My cheap friend tried it out to test his pc with the game.  

I'm glad their cracking down too though.  This game is worth every bit of $50, if not more.
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AttAdude
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« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2004, 05:20:46 PM »

Well what i ment is how does this make any difference at all as it relates to the pirating of the game.  I dont think it does, because i am using a no Steam crack for my Silver copy of HL2.  It was definatly easy, and worked much better than the "legit" way of doing it.  So i figure if i can Get a Silver copy of HL2 to work with out steam, then would it not be as easy to download and ISO and do the same thing?


Aside from that im glad they did it because i care more about the idea of content distro online.  Id hate to see steam and the idea its pushing crumble because a master key was leaked, or what ever that key was.  I just dont want to have to be connected to thier damn network after i get said content.
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jonsauce
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« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2004, 05:26:20 PM »

People are still going to pirate it, but it just got a little harder to pirate.  Anything that makes it harder to pirate is fine with me.

Not everyone goes out and buys the game and then finds the no steam crack like you.
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Mr. Sparkle
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« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2004, 05:55:47 PM »

I can see that their might be a gray area though with people who used the fake key and then subsequently bought a real one.

I don't have much compassion for them, but I could see how they would be upset if they can't get their account reactivated...   though I'm sure Valve is on completely unshakable ground if they choose not to.
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jonsauce
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« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2004, 06:13:05 PM »

Even if they did go out and buy it, it was only after they used the illegal key.

Just because you pay for it later doesn't make stealing (or trying to steal) the game okay first.
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« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2004, 06:23:23 PM »

Quote from: "jonsauce"
Even if they did go out and buy it, it was only after they used the illegal key.

Just because you pay for it later doesn't make stealing (or trying to steal) the game okay first.


Yeah, I understand (and agree) with that...  though it feels a little draconian /heavy handed to me to ban them from Steam forever.

And while I see that to make it a real deterent to piracy, you have to paint with a broad brush...  I can also see how it would be used as a rationalization for future piracy.

In the end, I doubt it'll make a net difference either way...  and people who did illegal things got punished for it.  So a win for the good guys.
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« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2004, 06:33:42 PM »

Quote from: "jonsauce"
Even if they did go out and buy it, it was only after they used the illegal key.

Just because you pay for it later doesn't make stealing (or trying to steal) the game okay first.
Well technically if you went out and bought the game after getting banned, you could make a brand new Steam account, no?

I guess it'd really screw the folks who used a key to play Counterstrike early because they had HL2 on preorder or something, then tied their legit HL2 key to their account, THEN got banned.

That would... suck.
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Goonch
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« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2004, 06:45:45 PM »

Good for them!
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Orgull
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« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2004, 06:56:12 PM »

Beautiful.

IMHO all pirates can go to hell. Stealing software is no different than shoplifting. Glad to see Valve taking a proactive approach.

BTW I'm almost finished installing Half-Life 2 and I don't see what the fuss was all about... install from CD's, update steam, run steam, download small bit of game, decrypt game... it's all one continuous process and so far it's worked fine. Time consuming, but if it deters piracy I'll cooperate.
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Mystic95Z
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« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2004, 07:00:17 PM »

Sounds like people who even bought a legit steam package were banned if they had used one of the warez keys on that account at any time. I see many CC chargebacks coming for Valve and from what I've been told you can get your merchant account cancelled. I also smell a class action lawsuit coming as well.

-Tony
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olaf
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« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2004, 07:05:01 PM »

I dont sympathize with publishers at all over piracy.  They treat their customers like complete and utter shit.  Its no wonder people want to fuck back.

olaf
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jonsauce
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« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2004, 07:08:03 PM »

Quote
Well technically if you went out and bought the game after getting banned, you could make a brand new Steam account, no?


Correct, Valve is all for you making a new account and using a valid CD key.
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« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2004, 07:08:28 PM »

Quote
I dont sympathize with publishers at all over piracy. They treat their customers like complete and utter shit. Its no wonder people want to fuck back.

olaf


Publishers yeah.  Developers No.  Don't forget about the snafu Valve had with Vivendi.  And Steam is Valve's not Vivendi's.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=56713
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« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2004, 07:08:56 PM »

Quote from: "olaf"
I dont sympathize with publishers at all over piracy.  They treat their customers like complete and utter shit.  Its no wonder people want to fuck back.

olaf
Though I agree 100% with you, Vivendi has nothing to do with Steam--the Steam bannings and the key authentication routines are totally in Valve's court.
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Mr. Sparkle
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« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2004, 07:11:55 PM »

Quote from: "jonsauce"
Quote
Well technically if you went out and bought the game after getting banned, you could make a brand new Steam account, no?


Correct, Valve is all for you making a new account and using a valid CD key.


Oh...  then I'm cool.  nvm
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« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2004, 07:13:31 PM »

And from a legal standpoint, can Valve deny access to the use of software you legitimately bought, regardless of your past with them?

I mean, I'm sure there's some clause in the EULA that states if you use Steam Valve has complete rights to your computer, house, family, and testicles, but EULAs have already proven to be ultra-brittle in court and I imagine with the new legal trend of fighting hard for customer rights in a mega-corp world, Valve might get some flak for this...
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« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2004, 07:37:40 PM »

I think it is funny how in that thread people are equating 20,000 bans to ~$1,000,000. But of that 20,000 how many do you think are kids who can't talk their parents into spending the 50 to 90 bucks for a game?

I am all for banning pirates from steam (not that it changes much) as long as they can keep from hurting paying customers.
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AttAdude
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« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2004, 08:01:07 PM »

Quote from: "jonsauce"
People are still going to pirate it, but it just got a little harder to pirate.  Anything that makes it harder to pirate is fine with me.

Not everyone goes out and buys the game and then finds the no steam crack like you.


I think you would be surprised, there is a fair ammount of people out there that value security and dont pirate.  For instance i know 8 people right now that have HL2 and i know 8 people that dont want to be connected to Steam while they play a single player game.  All are using the crackl.  

That goes double for people that download plain jane No CD cracks.  For alot of people, me included its an issue of fair use, and our right to not be controlled by things that we had to pay money for.  /shrug.

Lastly id beg to differ and with you on the HL2 is harder to pirate thing.  From where i stand, suckering an online content dirsto model into givnig you a free game is alot harder than firing up your BT client and downloading it.
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jonsauce
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« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2004, 08:28:23 PM »

Quote
I think it is funny how in that thread people are equating 20,000 bans to ~$1,000,000. But of that 20,000 how many do you think are kids who can't talk their parents into spending the 50 to 90 bucks for a game?


No, probably alot of them won't go buy the game.  But at least they will have to go through some more trouble if they still want to play for free.
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« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2004, 10:37:05 PM »

Quote from: "jonsauce"
People are still going to pirate it, but it just got a little harder to pirate.  Anything that makes it harder to pirate is fine with me.

Not everyone goes out and buys the game and then finds the no steam crack like you.


How is it gonna be harder to pirate? They can still get it via retail channels or some pirate group buys it legit then tweaks it.
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Daehawk
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« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2004, 10:45:48 PM »

Everytime I see this thread title i picture Valve with Sid Meir in a headlock preventing him from selling copies of Pirates!
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jonsauce
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« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2004, 10:47:49 PM »

Quote
How is it gonna be harder to pirate? They can still get it via retail channels or some pirate group buys it legit then tweaks it.


Because not everyone is smart enough to find the warez web sites.  
People who buy it via retail channels aren't exactly going to pirate it....at least not after getting banned from Steam after their first purchase.

This isn't going to stop pirates 100%, maybe not even 10%, but at least they are doing something to be a pain in the ass to theifs.
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« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2004, 10:56:27 PM »

Quote from: "Daehawk"
Everytime I see this thread title i picture Valve with Sid Meir in a headlock preventing him from selling copies of Pirates!


I actually debated adding that ! point. I don't know why I didn't, as I thought it was funny.
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Balshazaar
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« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2004, 05:43:37 AM »

I thought that you meant that they barred the game Pirates! from being played in their offices...   smile
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« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2004, 08:52:16 AM »

Quote
I also smell a class action lawsuit coming as well.


What could they sue Valve for?

"Hi, I stole a copy of HL2 and I'd like to sue Valve for blocking my steam account."

Doesn't matter if they bought a legit copy of the game later on. If that was true then they could make a new account with a legit copy of HL2.
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« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2004, 01:30:40 PM »

Quote from: "Sparhawk"


What could they sue Valve for?

"Hi, I stole a copy of HL2 and I'd like to sue Valve for blocking my steam account."

Doesn't matter if they bought a legit copy of the game later on. If that was true then they could make a new account with a legit copy of HL2.



I don't think it would work but they could sue for losing all the other games they had purchased.


Imagine that you copied a DVD and 20th Century Fox came to your house and took all your DVDs.  Well you only stole one, so they really don't have much claim to take the rest.


As I said, I doubt it would work but I would bet that is what they would sue over.
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« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2004, 01:41:21 PM »

This would be like taking away your internet access for viewing child porn(okay hopefully you would get harsher penalties than that). Of course you can't look at GoneGold or any other sites anymore, because you misused the service. Steam was misused and they have every right to take the service away.
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morlac
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« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2004, 02:50:46 PM »

Quote from: "BigRedCat"
This would be like taking away your internet access for viewing child porn(okay hopefully you would get harsher penalties than that). Of course you can't look at GoneGold or any other sites anymore, because you misused the service. Steam was misused and they have every right to take the service away.


Ugg bad analogy Tongue.  They do take away your internet acces for viewing kiddie porn.  They take your computers too.  Most sentences for kiddie porn ban you from owning a computer for a period of time.
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happydog
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« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2004, 05:13:03 PM »

Quote from: "morlac"
Quote from: "BigRedCat"
This would be like taking away your internet access for viewing child porn(okay hopefully you would get harsher penalties than that). Of course you can't look at GoneGold or any other sites anymore, because you misused the service. Steam was misused and they have every right to take the service away.


Ugg bad analogy Tongue.  They do take away your internet acces for viewing kiddie porn.  They take your computers too.  Most sentences for kiddie porn ban you from owning a computer for a period of time.


With the key word being "sentences". As stated before (either here or in the original thread) Valve has deiced to be judge, jury and executioner here. Although there is a route to appeal your case which is a step in the right direction, but IMO not enough.
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« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2004, 05:23:18 PM »

Good point Happy.
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JayG
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« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2004, 06:30:27 PM »

From the headline I thought that Valve were gonna ban their staff from playing Pirates, as they saw what happened when 3D realms allowed their staff to play all the new cool games.
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« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2004, 06:37:54 PM »

Quote from: "morlac"
Quote from: "BigRedCat"
This would be like taking away your internet access for viewing child porn(okay hopefully you would get harsher penalties than that). Of course you can't look at GoneGold or any other sites anymore, because you misused the service. Steam was misused and they have every right to take the service away.


Ugg bad analogy Tongue.  They do take away your internet acces for viewing kiddie porn.  They take your computers too.  Most sentences for kiddie porn ban you from owning a computer for a period of time.


Okay, how about your ISP boots you for something that violates their terms of service but you have paid subscriptions to a variety of websites that you can no longer access without an ISP?  Of course the solution is to select a different ISP but its my understanding that, in this case, you can just buy a new copy of the game and register for a new Steam account.
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JayG
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« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2004, 07:18:41 PM »

Quote from: "BigRedCat"
This would be like taking away your internet access for viewing child porn(okay hopefully you would get harsher penalties than that). Of course you can't look at GoneGold or any other sites anymore, because you misused the service. Steam was misused and they have every right to take the service away.


It feels like a lifetime since I could look at Gone Gold.  :cry:
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BigRedCat
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« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2004, 12:38:59 AM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "morlac"
Quote from: "BigRedCat"
This would be like taking away your internet access for viewing child porn(okay hopefully you would get harsher penalties than that). Of course you can't look at GoneGold or any other sites anymore, because you misused the service. Steam was misused and they have every right to take the service away.


Ugg bad analogy Tongue.  They do take away your internet acces for viewing kiddie porn.  They take your computers too.  Most sentences for kiddie porn ban you from owning a computer for a period of time.


Okay, how about your ISP boots you for something that violates their terms of service but you have paid subscriptions to a variety of websites that you can no longer access without an ISP?  Of course the solution is to select a different ISP but its my understanding that, in this case, you can just buy a new copy of the game and register for a new Steam account.


This is more like the analogy I was going for.
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