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Author Topic: UT 2007 Confirmed as PS3 launch title  (Read 3871 times)
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Jumangi
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« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2006, 08:14:03 PM »

Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
MGS4 was real-time.  The hair on his moustache (which have more polygons than an entire enemy soldier in MGS3!) was being rendered in real-time.  Octacon was actually in the city, being rendered in real-time.

And to me, Killzone's video isn't too far out of the question, imo.  Looking at the original, they did some really amazing stuff with that game...I shall remain optimistic!


Try reading my post again. I wasn't talking about never seeing it, just not at launch.
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TheMissingLink
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« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2006, 08:24:24 PM »

Was just responding to the video part biggrin

God I hope MGS4's a launch title.  If it isn't, what's Sony going to have?  Obviously not UT2k7  :lol:      :cry:
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WinoMcCougarstein
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« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2006, 08:51:24 PM »

I'm not doubting the MGS4 video, but remember, that Ghost Recon video for the 360 that was shown at E3 was also "realtime."  Funny how it doesnt even look close to the same in gameplay footage now.  I will remain a skeptic until I see gameplay footage.
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TheMissingLink
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« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2006, 10:39:59 PM »

That Ghost Recon video...to me, it looked like the Killzone video.  Looked waaay too next-gen-y at the time.  Just didn't look believable.

The MGS4 demo, though, totally looked accomplishable (is that a word?, imo.  And there's a 9-minute video out there where a few members of the team play around with the demo, all in real-time.  Changing the lighting...camera angles...that all but makes me believe we'll be seeing a game that looks just like the trailer we saw when it hits.  Whenever that'll be.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2006, 11:48:40 PM »

I wouldn't expect MGS 4 until November 2007.  The titles have come out three years apart since MGS1.  I can't imagine that it would be ready by the end of this year (though I would love to be wrong).
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WinoMcCougarstein
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« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2006, 12:45:28 AM »

I'm not saying it wont look that way, in fact, I really hope it does.  I'm just not going to really get hyped up for it until I see it in action.  Man, I really hope it does look that way though.
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CeeKay
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« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2006, 01:53:16 AM »

Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
The MGS4 demo, though, totally looked accomplishable (is that a word?, imo.  And there's a 9-minute video out there where a few members of the team play around with the demo, all in real-time.  Changing the lighting...camera angles...that all but makes me believe we'll be seeing a game that looks just like the trailer we saw when it hits.  Whenever that'll be.


So we get 15 minutes of gameplay and 9 hours of cut scenes this time out, right?
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Calvin
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« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2006, 02:01:59 AM »

TML-your problem especially with referencing the Killzone vids (and to some extent the MGS4 trailer) is that Sony admitted after E3 that they were running at 3-4 frames per second and were drastically sped up in post production-rumor is they are like the crazy 360 vids from 6 months ago-its possible to make them look like that, but they can't really run like that-I highly doubt MGS4 or Killzone 2 will look like that in real motion.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2006, 02:25:17 AM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
I highly doubt MGS4 or Killzone 2 will look like that in real motion.


Kojima said MGS4 was real time and I believe it.  Remember the MGS2 trailer from 2000 that everyone thought couldn't have been in-engine but was ?  His team of coders are among the most talented in the industry and I have zero problem believing they are capable of what we saw in the MGS4 trailer.

The graphics from MGS2, MGS3, and Zone of Enders 2nd Runner are among the best of not only the PS2 but all consoles this generation.  

As to Killzone 2, while I enjoyed Killzone 1 more than most, Guerilla just ain't in the same level of coders as Kojima's Team and I'm much more skeptical on the final output there.  
Quote from: "Ceekay"
So we get 15 minutes of gameplay and 9 hours of cut scenes this time out, right?[


Have you played MGS3?  The gameplay/cutscene ratio in it is radically different than the first two installments (in a good way).  The series isn't for everyone but anyone making judgements on the basis of MGS2 is missing a cubic ass-ton of gamplay overhaul.
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Jumangi
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« Reply #49 on: January 04, 2006, 04:06:29 AM »

Quote from: "GatorFavre"
I'm not doubting the MGS4 video, but remember, that Ghost Recon video for the 360 that was shown at E3 was also "realtime."  Funny how it doesnt even look close to the same in gameplay footage now.  I will remain a skeptic until I see gameplay footage.


The game is coming out for both Xbox and the 360 so you could be mixing up stuff. Don't see why the full game couldn't look that good. All the in engine demos of Gears of War show the 360 can pump plenty of eye candy out.
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CeeKay
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« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2006, 04:43:55 AM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Have you played MGS3?  The gameplay/cutscene ratio in it is radically different than the first two installments (in a good way).  The series isn't for everyone but anyone making judgements on the basis of MGS2 is missing a cubic ass-ton of gamplay overhaul.


Actually I was going for 'funny ha-ha' without the smiley.  To be honest most of my PS2 experience has been limited to MGS2 and a few Final Fantasy's, so all I've been exposed to are the games with lots of cut scenes.
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WinoMcCougarstein
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« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2006, 04:45:05 AM »

Quote from: "Jumangi"
Quote from: "GatorFavre"
I'm not doubting the MGS4 video, but remember, that Ghost Recon video for the 360 that was shown at E3 was also "realtime."  Funny how it doesnt even look close to the same in gameplay footage now.  I will remain a skeptic until I see gameplay footage.


The game is coming out for both Xbox and the 360 so you could be mixing up stuff. Don't see why the full game couldn't look that good. All the in engine demos of Gears of War show the 360 can pump plenty of eye candy out.


No, at E3 a video of the 360 version was shown that was supposedly realtime, now they are showing 360 screenshots and videos that dont nearly as good as the video shown at E3.  After that I believe the game got pushed back.  So maybe they are working now to get it to look more like the E3 video.
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TheMissingLink
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« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2006, 05:01:01 AM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
TML-your problem especially with referencing the Killzone vids (and to some extent the MGS4 trailer) is that Sony admitted after E3 that they were running at 3-4 frames per second and were drastically sped up in post production-rumor is they are like the crazy 360 vids from 6 months ago-its possible to make them look like that, but they can't really run like that-I highly doubt MGS4 or Killzone 2 will look like that in real motion.


Let's seperate Killzone 2 from MGS4.  MGS4 is real-time footage.  According to Kojima, that's what we will see.

Killzone 2, on the other hand, is supposedly a video that is sped up.  The original Killzone runs at 30 fps (MAX, with it dipping quite a bit and often) and with some more experience and tweaking, I think they could produce something that runs quite a bit faster than 3-4 frames per second.  That's probably just wishful thinking from me, but maybe if they tweak their engine, they could produce something better than 3-4 frames per second.

Let's not keep grouping MGS4 and K2 together, though - that MGS4 video is real-time footage.
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Jumangi
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« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2006, 04:57:23 PM »

Uhh sorry but there's no proof that the MGS4 video wasn't the same thing(in engine but sped up to fast framerates). Realtime by him could have meant the same thing as what the Killzone guys eventually admitted. The PS3 would have still been early beta hardware, the Nvidia chip wasn't even ready by that point.
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Sarkus
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« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2006, 07:57:14 PM »

The MGS4 stuff from Tokyo Game Show showing Kojima playing around realtime in MGS4 is real and I think that is what we are really talking about here.  That said, it still doesn't guarantee that's what we will see, if only because the environment was somewhat limited and there wasn't a lot going on with the A.I.  Thats the real issue with these early demos and videos - sure they look great when you can pump all the power of the system into rendering, but when you have to take some of that power and give it to A.I. and other processes, the rendering power drops.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2006, 08:02:58 PM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"
Thats the real issue with these early demos and videos - sure they look great when you can pump all the power of the system into rendering, but when you have to take some of that power and give it to A.I. and other processes, the rendering power drops.


That stuff ends up being a wash though because these demos are on alpha or beta kits and are non-optomized so that should leave plenty of room for both on the final hardware.

And if there is really going to be any real advantage to Cell then its probably going to be in allowing different processors to be dedicated to AI, physics, etc with the GPU handling a good portion of the rendering.
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« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2006, 08:33:46 PM »

Quote from: "CeeKay"
Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
The MGS4 demo, though, totally looked accomplishable (is that a word?, imo.  And there's a 9-minute video out there where a few members of the team play around with the demo, all in real-time.  Changing the lighting...camera angles...that all but makes me believe we'll be seeing a game that looks just like the trailer we saw when it hits.  Whenever that'll be.


So we get 15 minutes of gameplay and 9 hours of cut scenes this time out, right?


Found their new tagline :

METAL GEAR SOLID 4,
A game the whole family can watch.
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« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2006, 10:43:10 PM »

Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
Let's not keep grouping MGS4 and K2 together, though - that MGS4 video is real-time footage.


Real-time footage running on what?
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TheMissingLink
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« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2006, 12:52:18 AM »

Quote from: "kathode"
Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
Let's not keep grouping MGS4 and K2 together, though - that MGS4 video is real-time footage.


Real-time footage running on what?


If not an actual beta or alpha dev kit, something comparable to what the PS3 will be able to run?

I wouldn't imagine anything different than that.  I don't think they'd build that engine on a totally different system entirely only having to build it again from scratch.
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Calvin
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« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2006, 01:55:55 AM »

Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
Quote from: "kathode"
Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
Let's not keep grouping MGS4 and K2 together, though - that MGS4 video is real-time footage.


Real-time footage running on what?


If not an actual beta or alpha dev kit, something comparable to what the PS3 will be able to run?

I wouldn't imagine anything different than that.  I don't think they'd build that engine on a totally different system entirely only having to build it again from scratch.


I think you are being too believeing that the MGS4 footage was "real time omfgz 77 FPS" There is simply no conclusive proof till we see actual footage on near final kits that any PS3 game can run as well as they are saying.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #60 on: January 05, 2006, 02:15:52 AM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
I think you are being too believeing that the MGS4 footage was "real time omfgz 77 FPS" There is simply no conclusive proof till we see actual footage on near final kits that any PS3 game can run as well as they are saying.


I assume you hold this same degree of skepticism for every single announced title no matter the platform, publisher, or developer?
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« Reply #61 on: January 05, 2006, 03:12:45 AM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "Calvin"
I think you are being too believeing that the MGS4 footage was "real time omfgz 77 FPS" There is simply no conclusive proof till we see actual footage on near final kits that any PS3 game can run as well as they are saying.


I assume you hold this same degree of skepticism for every single announced title no matter the platform, publisher, or developer?


I dont know about him, but I sure do!  My skepticism is unbiased.  I will say it again though, I do hope that MGS4 looks the same when it is released.
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TheMissingLink
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« Reply #62 on: January 05, 2006, 03:38:34 AM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
Quote from: "kathode"
Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
Let's not keep grouping MGS4 and K2 together, though - that MGS4 video is real-time footage.


Real-time footage running on what?


If not an actual beta or alpha dev kit, something comparable to what the PS3 will be able to run?

I wouldn't imagine anything different than that.  I don't think they'd build that engine on a totally different system entirely only having to build it again from scratch.


I think you are being too believeing that the MGS4 footage was "real time omfgz 77 FPS" There is simply no conclusive proof till we see actual footage on near final kits that any PS3 game can run as well as they are saying.


Call me gullible, but if someone as respected and revered as Kojima comes out and makes sure to BOLD the point that his trailer is running real-time using the PS3 hardware; I gotta believe him.
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Calvin
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« Reply #63 on: January 05, 2006, 04:03:59 AM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "Calvin"
I think you are being too believeing that the MGS4 footage was "real time omfgz 77 FPS" There is simply no conclusive proof till we see actual footage on near final kits that any PS3 game can run as well as they are saying.


I assume you hold this same degree of skepticism for every single announced title no matter the platform, publisher, or developer?


I'm going to go ahead and say yes for the purposes of discussion because I really don't want to get into an argument about a game I could care less about with a poster whose opinions I really value. I just think the PS3 stuff shown was very very fake-so fake that most of it was admittedly sped up slide shows after the show. Whether MGS4 is one of those games remains to be seen. The fact that you don't think so does bear weight with me. For the record-I was skeptical of the inital GR:AW screenshots, I am still skeptical about GOW, and I would be skeptical about Oblivion had Kathode not assured me to my face that it actually looks and runs like that.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #64 on: January 05, 2006, 05:53:58 AM »

Quote from: "Calvin"

I'm going to go ahead and say yes for the purposes of discussion because I really don't want to get into an argument about a game I could care less about with a poster whose opinions I really value. I just think the PS3 stuff shown was very very fake-so fake that most of it was admittedly sped up slide shows after the show. Whether MGS4 is one of those games remains to be seen. The fact that you don't think so does bear weight with me. For the record-I was skeptical of the inital GR:AW screenshots, I am still skeptical about GOW, and I would be skeptical about Oblivion had Kathode not assured me to my face that it actually looks and runs like that.


Oh no arguments here smile  I'm as skeptical as anyone about most of the stuff that Sony unveiled during E3.  

I do think MGS4 is different though- it was unveiled several months later and, as TML said, Kojima is very well respected and not only has the visual skills to pull of the game we saw but has never "cheated" the way that  other devs have on occasion.  Hell he even included the ability to move the camera slightly during the MGS2 cutscenes just to prove they were being rendered on the fly and  in-engine.  If Kojima is so bold as to state that MGS4 was real-time then I believe him.  

Hell just look at the difference in PR- after the E3 demonstrations there was tons of double speak about "videos are well within the capablities, are to spec, blah, blah" that wouldn't outright say if they were in engine or pre-rendered.  With MGS4, Kojima flat out said "real time, not pre-rendered."  I can't imagine that he would put his reputation on the line if he thought he could be caught in a lie.
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