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Author Topic: Tiger Woods 06 Xbox : Chronically flawed  (Read 4075 times)
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flyinj
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« on: September 22, 2005, 01:51:52 AM »

Well, I got the new Tiger Woods for the Xbox.

And, I simply can't believe it. It's impossible to play.

They added a new functionality to the game, where you use the right stick to determine where you hit the ball. You have to hold the stick steady at this location while you swing your club with the left stick.

Well, the problem is, in order to power up your swing, you have to tap the white button while backswinging.

Guess what. You can't hold the right stick and tap the white button at the same time.

Fantastic job EA. Did you never even *try* to play the Xbox SKU before shoving it out the door?

Absolutely brilliant. Now I'm stuck with this game which is completely unplayable. I guess I could return it for the $7 EB gives for used games.
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Calvin
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« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2005, 01:53:00 AM »

Quote from: "flyinj"
Well, I got the new Tiger Woods for the Xbox.

And, I simply can't believe it. It's impossible to play.

They added a new functionality to the game, where you use the right stick to determine where you hit the ball. You have to hold the stick steady at this location while you swing your club with the left stick.

Well, the problem is, in order to power up your swing, you have to tap the white button while backswinging.

Guess what. You can't hold the right stick and tap the white button at the same time.

Fantastic job EA. Did you never even *try* to play the Xbox SKU before shoving it out the door?

Absolutely brilliant. Now I'm stuck with this game which is completely unplayable. I guess I could return it for the $7 EB gives for used games.


Yikes, I just made my golfer but haven't had time to play. I hope you are just missing something or exaggerating, because this sounds awful!
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flyinj
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« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2005, 02:09:23 AM »

Hey, don't get me wrong. You can still "play" the game.

It's just that you you have to play a sub-standard version (in contrast to the full-functional PS2 SKU), unable to access a major portion of the control scheme.

Which, given the precision required in golf, makes the game worthless to me.
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Calvin
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« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2005, 02:38:21 AM »

Quote from: "flyinj"
Hey, don't get me wrong. You can still "play" the game.

It's just that you you have to play a sub-standard version (in contrast to the full-functional PS2 SKU), unable to access a major portion of the control scheme.

Which, given the precision required in golf, makes the game worthless to me.


How does the PS2 control better man? Is it just the way the buttons are placed?
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flyinj
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« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2005, 02:43:40 AM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
Quote from: "flyinj"
Hey, don't get me wrong. You can still "play" the game.

It's just that you you have to play a sub-standard version (in contrast to the full-functional PS2 SKU), unable to access a major portion of the control scheme.

Which, given the precision required in golf, makes the game worthless to me.


How does the PS2 control better man? Is it just the way the buttons are placed?


Yes. The PS2 has 4 "shoulder" buttons. All four of these can be pressed/tapped while both thumbs are engaged on the sticks.

This is the crux of the problem. The control scheme was developed for the PS2, and they didn't even consider the Xbox's different layout.

A simple option of making one of the triggers tappable for power boost would have solved this. Apparently, that is an amazingly innovative solution that escaped the best minds EA has to offer.
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Calvin
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« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2005, 03:18:29 AM »

Ok but here is my question-and I am not arguing with you, just trying to discuss, as I have only played like 3 holes so far!

If you don't do that fancy shoulder turn stuff, doesn't the game control pretty much exactly like last years did? I don't really remember that option being in there at all.
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flyinj
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« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2005, 03:34:50 AM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
Ok but here is my question-and I am not arguing with you, just trying to discuss, as I have only played like 3 holes so far!

If you don't do that fancy shoulder turn stuff, doesn't the game control pretty much exactly like last years did? I don't really remember that option being in there at all.


Yes, it does control exactly like last years. The problem is, you don't have access to the new ball striking feature. This makes the game unplayable in my eyes, as the new ball striking is vital to playing efficiently. You cannot play the game nearly well as someone who is playing it on a PS2.
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Calvin
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« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2005, 03:37:50 AM »

Quote from: "flyinj"
Quote from: "Calvin"
Ok but here is my question-and I am not arguing with you, just trying to discuss, as I have only played like 3 holes so far!

If you don't do that fancy shoulder turn stuff, doesn't the game control pretty much exactly like last years did? I don't really remember that option being in there at all.


Yes, it does control exactly like last years. The problem is, you don't have access to the new ball striking feature. This makes the game unplayable in my eyes, as the new ball striking is vital to playing efficiently. You cannot play the game nearly well as someone who is playing it on a PS2.

Are you going to exchange it for the PS2 version? I want to hear how that plays, and especially how the textures and load times are before I switch.
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flyinj
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« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2005, 03:41:51 AM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
Quote from: "flyinj"
Quote from: "Calvin"
Ok but here is my question-and I am not arguing with you, just trying to discuss, as I have only played like 3 holes so far!

If you don't do that fancy shoulder turn stuff, doesn't the game control pretty much exactly like last years did? I don't really remember that option being in there at all.


Yes, it does control exactly like last years. The problem is, you don't have access to the new ball striking feature. This makes the game unplayable in my eyes, as the new ball striking is vital to playing efficiently. You cannot play the game nearly well as someone who is playing it on a PS2.

Are you going to exchange it for the PS2 version? I want to hear how that plays, and especially how the textures and load times are before I switch.


Yes, my neighbor has the PS2 version. The loading times are longer, and it's a bit muddier looking. But it allows you to actually play the full game.

I'm not happy at all about having to play this on the PS2. And I'm positive EB will not let me return an opened copy of the game for the PS2 version.
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Calvin
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« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2005, 03:47:10 AM »

Quote from: "flyinj"
Quote from: "Calvin"
Quote from: "flyinj"
Quote from: "Calvin"
Ok but here is my question-and I am not arguing with you, just trying to discuss, as I have only played like 3 holes so far!

If you don't do that fancy shoulder turn stuff, doesn't the game control pretty much exactly like last years did? I don't really remember that option being in there at all.


Yes, it does control exactly like last years. The problem is, you don't have access to the new ball striking feature. This makes the game unplayable in my eyes, as the new ball striking is vital to playing efficiently. You cannot play the game nearly well as someone who is playing it on a PS2.

Are you going to exchange it for the PS2 version? I want to hear how that plays, and especially how the textures and load times are before I switch.


Yes, my neighbor has the PS2 version. The loading times are longer, and it's a bit muddier looking. But it allows you to actually play the full game.

I'm not happy at all about having to play this on the PS2. And I'm positive EB will not let me return an opened copy of the game for the PS2 version.


Jeez that sucks man. I am not worried about that because fortunately my good friend is an ASM at EB and he without fail helps me out with stuff like this. Either way, I am going to play a bit more here in a bit and then come back with some more impressions. Maybe we can figure something out to make this playable.
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flyinj
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« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2005, 04:04:29 AM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
Quote from: "flyinj"
Quote from: "Calvin"
Quote from: "flyinj"
Quote from: "Calvin"
Ok but here is my question-and I am not arguing with you, just trying to discuss, as I have only played like 3 holes so far!

If you don't do that fancy shoulder turn stuff, doesn't the game control pretty much exactly like last years did? I don't really remember that option being in there at all.


Yes, it does control exactly like last years. The problem is, you don't have access to the new ball striking feature. This makes the game unplayable in my eyes, as the new ball striking is vital to playing efficiently. You cannot play the game nearly well as someone who is playing it on a PS2.

Are you going to exchange it for the PS2 version? I want to hear how that plays, and especially how the textures and load times are before I switch.


Yes, my neighbor has the PS2 version. The loading times are longer, and it's a bit muddier looking. But it allows you to actually play the full game.

I'm not happy at all about having to play this on the PS2. And I'm positive EB will not let me return an opened copy of the game for the PS2 version.


Jeez that sucks man. I am not worried about that because fortunately my good friend is an ASM at EB and he without fail helps me out with stuff like this. Either way, I am going to play a bit more here in a bit and then come back with some more impressions. Maybe we can figure something out to make this playable.


Yeah, I really hope we can. I've tried several things... none of which have worked.

The only thing that actually let me apply power and right stick was to tap the white button on the backswing, then hold the backswing at the top, move my right thumb to the desired ball-hit location, then swing forward with my left. Unfortunately, this completely ruins the "tempo" of your swing, resulting in much less power. (The game measures how gracefully and quickly you transition from backswing to forward swing).
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Xmann
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« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2005, 04:24:53 AM »

well here is my question coming from someone who has never played the console version but the computer.
what does this new swing option matter really?  i only ask this because i created a new player and messed around a bit and couldnt find anything wrong with the swing by just using the left stick to swing....ala the mouse for the computer version.  will it matter the further you get into the career of a player or anything?  i only play single player so i dont know if that matters.  so far i liked what i saw and cant wait for the weekend to get really into developing my player.
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« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2005, 05:00:20 AM »

Quote from: "Xmann"
well here is my question coming from someone who has never played the console version but the computer.
what does this new swing option matter really?  i only ask this because i created a new player and messed around a bit and couldnt find anything wrong with the swing by just using the left stick to swing....ala the mouse for the computer version.  will it matter the further you get into the career of a player or anything?  i only play single player so i dont know if that matters.  so far i liked what i saw and cant wait for the weekend to get really into developing my player.


That's pretty much exactly what we are trying to figure out smile As soon as I have more impressions I will chime in withe more info.
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flyinj
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« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2005, 05:10:45 AM »

Quote from: "Xmann"
well here is my question coming from someone who has never played the console version but the computer.
what does this new swing option matter really?  i only ask this because i created a new player and messed around a bit and couldnt find anything wrong with the swing by just using the left stick to swing....ala the mouse for the computer version.  will it matter the further you get into the career of a player or anything?  i only play single player so i dont know if that matters.  so far i liked what i saw and cant wait for the weekend to get really into developing my player.


Yeah, the new swing system allows analog control of where your club will hit the ball. This allows for very precise navigation of the ball after impact.

For instance, if you hit the upper left part of the ball, the ball will arc right then left, with a low trajectory.

If you hit it in the lower right, it will arc left with a high trajectory.

It's a fantastic system, allowing for really great ball control. Unfortunately on the Xbox, you can only do this without applying extra power to the ball.

On the PS2, you can apply extra power and have this precision at the same time.
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Cyrano
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« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2005, 06:28:38 PM »

This sounds horrible.

Why don't console games let you reassign button like PC games do?
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Calvin
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« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2005, 08:22:02 PM »

Ok after extensive testing last night, ThinJ is absolutely right. There is no way to do these two things together. If the intent of EA was to make you choose between power or precision, I would be absolutely fine with this. But the fact that you can do both with the PS2 version means that that was not what was intended and the XBox version is, albeit slightly, absolutely broken. This is a huge gameplay feature, and it is simply not useable with another, albeit not vital, gameplay feature. I understand that the power up is not really "realistic" nor is it entirely necessary, but it has long been an option and we have gotten used to using it for all sorts of things over the last few years-to not be able to use that with the ball striking feature is simply a unforgivable omission, an incredible oversight by a company as large as EA and for a title as big as Tiger Woods 06. If reviewrs don't dock the score severely for this they are doing everyone that reads their reviews a huge disservice. As for me, I have not decided how much the loss of one or the other is going to affect me. If I decide it will not end up being much, I will probably just keep it. If it starts to bug me I am going to get my money back and wait for the 360 version.
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« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2005, 09:02:52 PM »

I have 2 hands plus an agile tail appendage, so it works fine for me.  

I hate the 2 little white and black buttons on the xbox controller, I always miss them, hit the wrong one, or just plain forget they're there.  Maybe next year for Tiger Woods 2007 on the xbox (if they release one for the "old" xbox) they can add a new feature that requires both sticks to be controlled, one of the small buttons pushed, 1 normal button pushed, plus the back button at the same time.
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flyinj
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« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2005, 09:34:02 PM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
Ok after extensive testing last night, ThinJ is absolutely right. There is no way to do these two things together. If the intent of EA was to make you choose between power or precision, I would be absolutely fine with this. But the fact that you can do both with the PS2 version means that that was not what was intended and the XBox version is, albeit slightly, absolutely broken. This is a huge gameplay feature, and it is simply not useable with another, albeit not vital, gameplay feature. I understand that the power up is not really "realistic" nor is it entirely necessary, but it has long been an option and we have gotten used to using it for all sorts of things over the last few years-to not be able to use that with the ball striking feature is simply a unforgivable omission, an incredible oversight by a company as large as EA and for a title as big as Tiger Woods 06. If reviewrs don't dock the score severely for this they are doing everyone that reads their reviews a huge disservice. As for me, I have not decided how much the loss of one or the other is going to affect me. If I decide it will not end up being much, I will probably just keep it. If it starts to bug me I am going to get my money back and wait for the 360 version.


To add to this, you don't need to test it on the PS2 version. If you hold your hands at a very awkward position, you can get power-tap, ball positioning and swing at the same time in the Xbox version. (Use your left thumb on the left stick, the use your right index finger on the right stick and tap the white button with your middle finger).

Unfortunately, there is no way to accurately play this way as your right hand is completely off balance and bobbing all over the place as you tap with your middle finger.
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Calvin
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« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2005, 09:50:30 PM »

Quote from: "flyinj"
Quote from: "Calvin"
Ok after extensive testing last night, ThinJ is absolutely right. There is no way to do these two things together. If the intent of EA was to make you choose between power or precision, I would be absolutely fine with this. But the fact that you can do both with the PS2 version means that that was not what was intended and the XBox version is, albeit slightly, absolutely broken. This is a huge gameplay feature, and it is simply not useable with another, albeit not vital, gameplay feature. I understand that the power up is not really "realistic" nor is it entirely necessary, but it has long been an option and we have gotten used to using it for all sorts of things over the last few years-to not be able to use that with the ball striking feature is simply a unforgivable omission, an incredible oversight by a company as large as EA and for a title as big as Tiger Woods 06. If reviewrs don't dock the score severely for this they are doing everyone that reads their reviews a huge disservice. As for me, I have not decided how much the loss of one or the other is going to affect me. If I decide it will not end up being much, I will probably just keep it. If it starts to bug me I am going to get my money back and wait for the 360 version.


To add to this, you don't need to test it on the PS2 version. If you hold your hands at a very awkward position, you can get power-tap, ball positioning and swing at the same time in the Xbox version. (Use your left thumb on the left stick, the use your right index finger on the right stick and tap the white button with your middle finger).

Unfortunately, there is no way to accurately play this way as your right hand is completely off balance and bobbing all over the place as you tap with your middle finger.


Well I guess now it comes down to testing the PS2 version to see if I could live with the load times/graphics/etc. Its just so stupid. It's really really silly.
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flyinj
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« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2005, 09:52:37 PM »

And by the way, my name is FlyinJ, not ThinJ.
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Calvin
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« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2005, 09:59:54 PM »

Quote from: "flyinj"
And by the way, my name is FlyinJ, not ThinJ.
Yeah yeah yeah there are two of you, one ThinJ, one FlyinJ-no worries mate, just get confused with the two of you  :wink:
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flyinj
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« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2005, 10:02:16 PM »

According to someone on the GameFaqs board, he says there is not power/english/swing conflict on the gamecube version.

I asked him to explain the layout to me. If this is the case, I'm getting that version as the loadtimes are quite good on the GC generally.
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« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2005, 10:23:24 PM »

That really stinks.  Whomever was in charge of design and QA should be catapulted in to a volcano.  Hopefully this won't be an issue on the 360 as the white/black buttons have been moved just above each trigger (right?).
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flyinj
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« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2005, 10:48:23 PM »

Yeah, it won't be. The white/black buttons are now large buttons above the triggers, just like on the PS2 controller.
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« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2005, 01:08:24 AM »

Quote from: "flyinj"
Yeah, it won't be. The white/black buttons are now large buttons above the triggers, just like on the PS2 controller.

If thats true, then I am really pissed off. I want to play the game, but I have a ton of other stuff, and I can wait to get the 360 version and basically play the full game right? Getting a GCN version isn't a possibility (got rid of it), and I am not sure I want the PS2 version. Ok, so now I am pretty pissed. I really honestly dont know how much of the two features together I will use, but its the principle of the thing at this point. I think I am going to get a refund and wait till 360.
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« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2005, 04:12:53 AM »

Just an FYI-the IGN and Gamespot reviews both give the game low 8 scores-I think IGN is 8.1 and Gamespot 8.4. Both give the game praise but criticize the incremental updates from last year and the graphics being almost exactly the same. Neither review for XBox even hints at a controller issue, which really pisses me off.I am thinking about sending an email.
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« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2005, 04:18:07 AM »

Quote from: "flyinj"
Yeah, it won't be. The white/black buttons are now large buttons above the triggers, just like on the PS2 controller.


Not only that, but MS is making sure that you don't have moves that require a trigger pull as well as a shoulder button at the same time.
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« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2005, 07:00:04 AM »

Quote from: "Graham"
Quote from: "flyinj"
Yeah, it won't be. The white/black buttons are now large buttons above the triggers, just like on the PS2 controller.


Not only that, but MS is making sure that you don't have moves that require a trigger pull as well as a shoulder button at the same time.


How are you so sure of this Graham? And if they know this, how the eff could they let it get out the door like this? I am so annoyed based on principle I think the game is going back.
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« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2005, 03:02:34 PM »

Having read the reviews it seems they think of the right stick addition as an option not necessarily needed for gameplay.  Of course, I'm sure that pretty much makes this game Tiger 05 if that is the case, correct?
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« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2005, 04:39:20 PM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
Just an FYI-the IGN and Gamespot reviews both give the game low 8 scores-I think IGN is 8.1 and Gamespot 8.4. Both give the game praise but criticize the incremental updates from last year and the graphics being almost exactly the same. Neither review for XBox even hints at a controller issue, which really pisses me off.I am thinking about sending an email.


And people wonder why some review sites are suspected of biased scoring for certain companies.
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flyinj
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« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2005, 05:46:52 PM »

Quote from: "AgtFox"
Having read the reviews it seems they think of the right stick addition as an option not necessarily needed for gameplay.  Of course, I'm sure that pretty much makes this game Tiger 05 if that is the case, correct?


The thing is, I only play the game competitively with friends. We're VERY into the tiger woods series. Using the right stick is vital when playing against skilled human opponents.
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« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2005, 05:56:49 PM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
Quote from: "Graham"
Quote from: "flyinj"
Yeah, it won't be. The white/black buttons are now large buttons above the triggers, just like on the PS2 controller.


Not only that, but MS is making sure that you don't have moves that require a trigger pull as well as a shoulder button at the same time.


How are you so sure of this Graham? And if they know this, how the eff could they let it get out the door like this? I am so annoyed based on principle I think the game is going back.


I have read it in one of my news stories, but it has been a while.  I will try to look it up again.  However, as far as this issue goes, this is the Xbox version and not the Xbox 360.  Since this is still technically an Xbox game, you don't have the same game restrictions.  I like the fact that they are making sure that you don't have to hold the Xbox controller with the middle finger over the trigger.
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« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2005, 07:40:38 PM »

Quote from: "AgtFox"
Having read the reviews it seems they think of the right stick addition as an option not necessarily needed for gameplay.  Of course, I'm sure that pretty much makes this game Tiger 05 if that is the case, correct?


No, not really Fox, because last year you could put sidespin on the ball (Albeit in a fairly primitive and inexact way) by manipulating the left stick as you went back and forward. So this makes the game slightly behind TW05 if you look at it like that I guess. Plus, the sheer fact that whether or not its necessary doesn't excuse the fact that you can't do the two together only on the XBox, which is unforgiveable.
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« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2005, 08:10:54 PM »

I know it's unforgivable.  That was just the sense I was getting from the reviews.  They didn't note it because they didn't feel it was important or worse they didn't notice it.

I walked right past it at Blockbuster today, not going to pick it up if it is broken.
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« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2005, 08:26:03 PM »

Quote from: "AgtFox"
I know it's unforgivable.  That was just the sense I was getting from the reviews.  They didn't note it because they didn't feel it was important or worse they didn't notice it.

I walked right past it at Blockbuster today, not going to pick it up if it is broken.


This is what I dont understand. You know I reviewed games for many, many years. Sometimes I missed stuff, sure. Sometimes I wrote bad reviews I will admit. But if two features of the game were broken and could not work together. I just cant imagine serious reviewers missing this. I guess you are right, they either didnt think it was important or missed it, and both is a disservice.
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« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2005, 09:48:15 PM »

FlyinJ, have you played any more since we last talked about it? Changed versions? I haven't even booted it up since Thursday night so I dont have more impressions, but I hope to get some testing done today.
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« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2005, 09:13:23 PM »

No, I haven't touched it since. I've been playing other games.

I keep looking at the box, and getting that "Man I want to play some Tiger Woods" feeling, but then thinking about how it's broken and getting sad.
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Xmann
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« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2005, 09:31:27 PM »

Being someone who has played all of the previous TW games on a pc, i can say I HATE this game on Xbox.
I'm so disappointed i dont even want to play it anymore.  I might sell it or trade it for the pc version.  Theres nothing about it i like.
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Calvin
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« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2005, 09:42:05 PM »

I played it quite a bit yesterday, and have more impressions:

Swing stick: I dont like. It still doesnt work properly. It does not simulate shaping a shot particuarly well, and almost every ball struck with it comes off as a mishit (this probably will go away when I power up all my skills even more). Either way, I dont find it as useful as I would want it.

Overall swing: It seems more clunky than last years or the year before that. Its harder to make good contact-and the transition at the top of the backswing is harder to time-you are almost forced into a real quick transition because if you try to let the club "set" at the top you normally hit the ball short.

Swing miscellaneous: The club yardages are never how far your clubs fly, they seem to include some predetermined amount of roll. All thing being equal in the game, if it says your 8 iron goes 155 yards and the hole is 155 yards away, it won't fly that far unless you pump up the power up button. Ok, let me qualify that-at my level of skill in the game (Everything about 1/3 powered up) it will only go the right yardage maybe 20% of the time.

Putting: Too easy. I rarely use the ideal putting camera, but its just too easy for long putts. Short putts are actually far more difficult at times than long ones. A twisty downhill 4 footer is harder than a long 40 footer in man cases. Yesterday I made a 70 and 81 foot putt. Please. In my long golfing life, I have only made one or two putts over 50 feet. It just doesn't happen often.

Chipping/Pitching: Still modeled poorly, still too easy once you know how to do it-but despite it all still fun.

Flop shots: Not bad at all-not as versatile in controlling them as I would like but they are fun risk and reward.

Punch shots still work almnost nothing like there real word counterparts.

Legend Mode: lots of fun-very well implement, lots of variety, lots of stuff to do-can be very addictive. I wish there was a button to press to completely skip your opponents animations though-I like to play as quickly as possible.

Overall: Fun, but not polished. Those buttons are unusable together holding the controller normally. Several swing features are still fairly mediocre, and the graphics engine really needs an overhaul. I am going to keep it and play it, but sort of as a casual diversion. Im not sure I could recommend this right now if you are happy with last years. I am not sure its worth it to upgrade.
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