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Author Topic: The Revolution has begun...(IGN chan, specs, launch date?)  (Read 10512 times)
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« Reply #80 on: December 07, 2005, 03:07:45 PM »

Quote from: "farley2k"
I just don't get it.  When discussing the PS3 vs. the 360 people go on and on about how it isn't power which matters this generation but games, on-line stuff, etc.  (basically whatever MS is good at) but when discussing the Revolution is is all about horsepower again..

Because we know that the 360 and PS3 will both be fairly similar in terms of power.  They're both aiming for the fence in terms of horsepower, so it's going to be content that differentiates the two.

But when Nintendo says that their new console will not be nearly as powerful, horsepower *does* become an issue at that point.

Edit:  Looks like I pretty much duplicated Scott's post...
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« Reply #81 on: December 07, 2005, 03:29:33 PM »

Hetz is declaring it a failure.  I think it's because it won't be able to run Oblivion  :lol:

This underpowered discussion is blown out of proportion.  I owned a PSP.  I sold it, then bought a DS.  The DS is way underpowered compared to the PSP, but I like it a lot more.  So I don't get where less graphical power = failure?
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« Reply #82 on: December 07, 2005, 03:37:23 PM »

Quote from: "tru1cy"
Quote from: "farley2k"
Quote from: "Scott"

Why'd this turn into a PSP vs DS bash?  Give the PSP another 6-8 months, and we'll see.  The DS took a long time to come into its own, the PSP should be given the same chance I think.


So if I understand right we should give an existing system (the PSP) a few more months before we declare it a failure but we can declare a system which isn't even out yet (the Revolution) a failure right now?


 I don't think anyone is declaring the Revolution a failure, but most of us being shallow gamers just don't seem to be buying into Nintendo new direction.  

For a next-gen console to many of us it just doesn't seem very nextgen.  Unless you call a "wacky" new controller next-gen that is?


Corrected your quote for you.  slywink

Seriously though, there are good points made here.  The DS is both less powerful and less expensive than the PSP.  And despite the short memories of people here, we can look back and see that by mid to late summer, the DS was already "coming into its own".  Given the short delay from the DS's launch to the PSP's launch, if the DS hit its stride by summer, the PSP should have hit its stride by now as well.  It hasn't.

Again, the PSP has superior tech, nobody can argue that, but somehow the DS is a better gaming platform despite its unbearably awful graphics...

As for the Revolution and the direction Nintendo is going, here's a question:  how many "savvy gamers" have had a blast playing current gen games?  When you go to play Halo again, do you sit there thinking "holy crap, I can't believe I ever liked this game... it looks like shit!  Oh my god, look at those low-res textures!  what a bloated piece of overhyped crap!"

Somehow I doubt that.  Like me, you probably still absolutely love the game and it still looks great.  smile

Are any of us arguing that the Revolution will be on par with the PS3 or 360 in terms of power?  Not even close.  It will be less powerful.  But it's not just the raw numbers, again, you have to consider the architecture.  And not only that, but if you consider that current-gen games look great, and you're still willing to buy new ones, then it stands to reason that a system that's "only" two-three times more powerful than a current-gen system will be just fine for continuing to progress the gaming experience beyond what's currently possible.

And while I'm sure you're quite proud of yourself for that inimitably clever "wacky controller" retort, you're missing the point:  the controller and its various ways of use (remember, they've demonstrated that you will be able to also use in attached into a more traditional controller) will provide for new ways to play games.  Want to play an fps the way you're used to?  You'll be able to by taking the controller and inserting it into a standard-type shell, then playing that way.

Truly savvy gamers would realize that the Revo will be the system to offer truly new gametypes as developers figure out different ways to take advantage of the new control possibilities.

And as for going after a new demographic of current non-gamers?  To those who say there's no point in that, I leave you with this:  In the X-Box/PS2 generation (and even, to a degree, the Playstation/Dreamcast time), the game companies were able to go after the mainstream and bring in the current primary gaming demographic of shallow graphics whores by appealing to the lowest common denominator with snazzy graphics, "hip" music, and blatant sex / gratuitous violence appeal.  And it worked.  The game industry has exploded as a result with more and more profit.

Given that, I don't see how unrealistic it is to expect that a company who was able to tap into the market of people who buy games like "The Sims", "Bejeweled", and such would be able to acquire an entire new demographic.  Look at the Sims; that game was anything but high-tech, with low system requirements and fairly low-end graphics, but it's the best-selling pc game series ever.  Nintendo's tactic is already working with the DS just from my personal experience seeing the kind of people it's been attracting.

So I'll have a 360 or a PS3 to be able to play the traditional gametypes I like as well, but I'm most excited to see what the Revolution will be able to do, and what new gaming experiences I'll have.
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« Reply #83 on: December 07, 2005, 03:59:56 PM »

Quote from: "HankRaptor"
Quote from: "Dafones"
After reading the IGN article that Dae posted, I am worried about the power of the unit. I didn't like reading the quote above. I don't want me a "weak" system. But, as Tebunker also posted, this cheered me up:

Quote
Software houses we spoke with also waxed on the immediate advantage to Nintendo's approach with Revolution, which is, of course, system price. Every developer was in agreement that Revolution should launch with a price tag of $149 or lower. Some speculated that based on the tech, a $99 price point would not be out of the question.


Should launch at $150, huh? I wonder what Nintendo thinks about that. Like I said before, with that kind of price point, you're going to have many more people willing to give the Revo a try than if it was four hundred bucks. That puppy launches at $100? I could see it flying off the shelves.



The 100$ price point doesnt give me a warm and fuzzy... it means the spec WILL be really low.

That wont make them fly off the shelves if its not AMAZING.... Price point is important, but people dont buy something inferior cause its cheap.


Yeah, I agree, and I said as much somewhere in the tangled mess of this thread.  biggrin  I meant to suggest that, at a lower price point, a consumer who has heard of how enjoyable, but how different, the Revolution is from other consoles may be more likely to try it at a price point of $100 or $150.

If Nintendo's smart, they'll simply saturate stores with Revo kiosks so that buyers of all types can try the system out first hand. The moment my father - a man who loathes video games - wants to give it a go while out looking for televisions is the moment that Nintendo has done their job.

But, and here's the kicker that we've all brough up ... do I want a console that my Dad wants to play? Or Grandma? Or my baby cousin? I guess it doesn't really matter as long as I want to play the games on it. And as long as it doesn't have another handle.  :wink:
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« Reply #84 on: December 07, 2005, 04:17:29 PM »

Quote
Given the short delay from the DS's launch to the PSP's launch, if the DS hit its stride by summer, the PSP should have hit its stride by now as well. It hasn't.


I'd disagree. In the last 2 months the PSP has kicked out some great games. SSX, X-Men, Virtua Tennis, SOCOM and GTA...

Quote
This underpowered discussion is blown out of proportion.


I agree with this, but it seems like everything is blown out of proprtion when someone mentions a perceived issue with anything Nintendo does.

Lack of horsepower is blown out of proportion
Rehashed games is blown out of proportion
Lack of HiDef blown out of proportion
Online is blown out of proportion
Kiddie style games are blown out of proportion
etc.

The only thing that doesn't seem blown out of proportion to Nintendo fans is innovative controls because that's what they are doing different.
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« Reply #85 on: December 07, 2005, 04:20:09 PM »

Quote from: "Devil"
I can't wait!!! Mario Party 53 and hopefully another Mario Kart!!

 :wink:
Dude, XBox is already up to 360.  You have no room to talk.
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« Reply #86 on: December 07, 2005, 04:23:33 PM »

Quote from: "Daehawk"
Quote


"It's a gamble for the Big N," said another source. "It's not about horsepower for them -- it's about innovation and gameplay."



http://revolution.ign.com/articles/673/673799p1.html


Here's the thing. I have no doubt that Nintendo itself can and will put out some very innovative and very fun games. Unfortunately, they seem to be able to only release a couple of games a year. Thus, the maority of the games on the Revolution will be from 3rd party developpers. I have less confidence that they can put out such innovative and fun games.

So while I might buy a Revolution if it costs only $100, it will only be for the 1st party games (just like when I bought my Gamecube). As for those people looking for only one system to play many games, I'm not sure if the Revolution will be for them.
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« Reply #87 on: December 07, 2005, 04:34:02 PM »

Quote from: "corruptrelic"
Yet when you compare everything side by side on the DS and PSP, the PSP is a clear winner. From graphics, to online web browsing, listening to mp3s, watching movies, playing games online, and some decent games you'll never see with nintendo. (Battlefront 2, Battlefield 2, GTA, etc.)

...except you left out gameplay.  And value for your gaming dollar.

I don't blame you either.  It was smart of you to leave those two things out, if you were trying to argue in favor of the PSP.

and rofl @ the prospect of EVER seriously playing either of the BF2s on the freakin' PSP analog nub.
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« Reply #88 on: December 07, 2005, 04:51:52 PM »

Quote
...except you left out gameplay. And value for your gaming dollar.

Value for gaming dollar comes down to what you use.  Who cares if the DS is $100 if it sits in a desk drawer?

Why do Nintendo fans attack the PSP, instead of defending their products?

Being able to do more then play games is a great benefit to the PSP.  My kids will watch a movie on it to keep them calm in a store.  My wife takes the PSP to work now to watch movies when she works at night.  Being able to use the PSP to show photo slideshows at family get togethers is great, or listen to music if I want to.  That's a lot of extra use I can't get out of the DS.  Plus, games like GTA, X-Men 2, Burnout Legends, Virtua Tennis, and some of the newer RPGs are all great for your gaming dollar on the PSP, and fairly lengthy games.

I played Mario Kart and Mario 64 ten years ago, I don't want to play them again on the DS.

 
Quote
I have no doubt that Nintendo itself can and will put out some very innovative and very fun games.

Maybe, but they have to bring more then Mario to the table, or the dying Pokemon, which they can't even do well anymore.

Quote
When you go to play Halo again, do you sit there thinking "holy crap, I can't believe I ever liked this game... it looks like shit! Oh my god, look at those low-res textures! what a bloated piece of overhyped crap!"

I do.  Amazing that a game with so many repeated textures, levels, and enemies, ever sold.  Older games like Halo have been surpassed now in many ways.  Sure, I may have fond memories of it, but why go back and play them?  Time is so short for a lot of people.  There are rare games old games that haven't been exceeded that I like to play, like Diablo II, but most older games are better served to be remembered, then played.
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« Reply #89 on: December 07, 2005, 04:51:54 PM »

Quote from: "Devil"
I'd disagree. In the last 2 months the PSP has kicked out some great games. SSX, X-Men, Virtua Tennis, SOCOM and GTA...


Two months to churn out slightly above average (7.5-7.8 range per Gamerankings.com voters) ports from the existing system that offer nothing new to the gaming experience aside from being able to play it on the road. The one title that scored above an 8.0 (8.2) is the GTA game and that title targets the very essence of the core gaming audience of the system. Way to go!
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« Reply #90 on: December 07, 2005, 04:54:38 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"
Quote
...except you left out gameplay. And value for your gaming dollar.

Value for gaming dollar comes down to what you use.  Who cares if the DS is $100 if it sits in a desk drawer?

You've still dodged gameplay.  And that's where value's derived from.

$40-$50 for a weak PS2 port = lame.

Quote
Why do Nintendo fans attack the PSP, instead of defending their products?

I'm not a Nintendo fan.  I'm a PSP foe.
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« Reply #91 on: December 07, 2005, 04:54:50 PM »

Quote
The PSP isn't a portable gaming machine. Hell, I can't carry that thing around with me like I can with my DS.

This I don't understand.  Neither the DS nor the PSP fit in my pocket, so I'd have to carry them both externally.  How is either one more portable then the other?  Maybe I'm missing the latest trend of baggy pants with backpack pockets though.  I can carry the GBA SP, my Treo, or an iPod in my pocket though.

If you get the Logitech case, or any other case for your PSP, its well protected.
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« Reply #92 on: December 07, 2005, 04:56:15 PM »

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You've still dodged gameplay. And that's where value's derived from.

$40-$50 for a weak PS2 port ftl.

I didn't dodge gameplay, I mentioned GTA, X-Men 2, etc.  Some are ports, fine, but I'll take PS2 ports as opposed to Nintendo 64 ports, or games that could have been made on that platform.  If you prefer Nintendogs, and Mario Kart, fine, but I'll take GTA and Burnout Legends, or X-Men II over those.

You're also using a pretty narrow definition for value.  I define value for a console system by how often I use it, no matter what I use it for.  

You'd like to define value for the DS and PSP as strictly relating to gaming, which I understand, since the DS does nothing else.
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« Reply #93 on: December 07, 2005, 04:59:24 PM »

Quote
Two months to churn out slightly above average (7.5-7.8 range per Gamerankings.com voters) ports from the existing system that offer nothing new to the gaming experience aside from being able to play it on the road.


The problem with this is that the PSP games get compared to PS2 games, and the ratings take a hit for that.  Port the DS games to the PSP, and they'd rate even lower, as the graphic scores, as well as the simplicity of the gameplay would suck compared to newer generation games.  Look how well Burnout Legends fared on the DS.

Yeah, I guess there are a few games that make innovative use of the stylus, maybe.  A few games have a separate screen for maps or stats.  Of course, the graphics of the PSP let you overlay the map on the much larger, crisper main screen...

Again, here we go, attacking the PSP instead of defending the Revolution.  Fun, fun smile.
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« Reply #94 on: December 07, 2005, 05:00:53 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
.

  That's what Nintendo's aiming for.  They don't appear to want to/be able to compete with Sony and Microsoft.  Perhaps they'll be happy being the "other console" people have.  Maybe there's an untapped market out there.  


Back when Microsoft came into the market to compete against Sony and Nintendo, who would have thought Nintendo would have given in and been reduced to being the "other console" people buy?  I doubt Nintendo envisioned that.  

I hope the Revolution succeeds.  But I'm not sure what market they are aiming for.  The parents buying a console for their kids will probably go with the flashy graphics and mass appeal of the PS3 or X360.  The younger teen gamers will probably not be interested in the non-standard controller and less impressive graphics.  The casual gamer is unlikely to have more than one console.  To me the only people likely to be interested in the Revolution are going to be hard core gamers.  That's great for us hard core gamers.  I'm not sure that it is great for Nintendo though.
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« Reply #95 on: December 07, 2005, 05:02:06 PM »

Well I've been a gamer for a while and Nintendo was the company that really got me started.  I appreciate all they have done for gaming, but there view of consloe gaming has become really antiquated, which is why I haven't had a Nintendo system of any sort since the SNES.  They continue to try and rely on Mario, Zelda, and others and give gamers rehash after rehash of the same ole games.  Sure they have some new twist or look a little better, but I expect more out of a gaming system.  Clearly the Gamecube came in last in the colse wars of last Gen, and there is a reason for that.  it will be the same reaso they come in last this time around too, and they will then have to decide if they want to compete with the big boys or just become a software company.
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« Reply #96 on: December 07, 2005, 05:54:15 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"
The problem with this is that the PSP games get compared to PS2 games, and the ratings take a hit for that.  Port the DS games to the PSP, and they'd rate even lower, as the graphic scores, as well as the simplicity of the gameplay would suck compared to newer generation games.  Look how well Burnout Legends fared on the DS.


My intended point isn't to have the systems wave their shafts at each other and compare sizes, my focus is over the gameplay and experiences that each system offers.

The PSP games get compared to their PS2 parents at this time because most of them fail to provide a new wrinkle, angle, or gameplay experience other than being a portable version of a larger game one can play at home. I've got nothing against that basic concept and I am truly happy for the users that benefit from that portable option, but let's not confuse the basic functionalities of most "Title A" on the Cube and DS with "Title A" on the PS2 and PSP. While both handheld systems have many game titles or properties that are currently available on their parent systems, only the DS offers something different in gameplay from it's parent while the PSP offers a ported portable version of it's mom and dad.

One of the related points I've seen made on these forums that I identify with the most is the time spent playing both of these handhelds at home. I play my DS just as much (more now, actually, over the past two months) than I do my Gamecube, PS2, or PC. Why? Because of the unique gameplay and experiences it provides. If I had a PSP and was at playing home I would choose to play the games on my PS2 instead. One example of a unique PSP experience over the PS2 that I can think of offhand is if the PSP GTA game allowed you to listen to your own custom MP3s from your memory stick on the in game radio (something the PS2 version doesn't do). Mind you if I wanted that experience I would just play it on my PC instead but that was the first example that came to mind.

Burnout Legends on the DS is another beast all together and has just as much to do with Electronic Arts than anything else. In typical EA fashion they sought to simply port an existing concept to the system in a money grab attempt and just made a horrible stinker of a game. At least their previous EA Sports games on the DS have tried to make use of the stylus... which was my favorite wrinle in the Madden DS games I've rented but the games themselves were still stinkers. I'll stick with Burnout 3 on my PS2 when I want to destroy things in crash mode.
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« Reply #97 on: December 07, 2005, 06:45:51 PM »

Quote
You've still dodged gameplay. And that's where value's derived from.

$40-$50 for a weak PS2 port = lame.


This is the problem, LE. You have no idea what I consider weak or lame.

$35 for a weak Super Nintendo port = lame



Quote
Two months to churn out slightly above average (7.5-7.8 range per Gamerankings.com voters) ports from the existing system that offer nothing new to the gaming experience aside from being able to play it on the road.


FYE - You fail to mention that the highest rated Mario Kart ws the original and the highest rated Mario Party was the second one, the highest rated Castlevania was SoTN from 8 years ago...

So what you are saying is that the PSP games have a chance to get better while the Nintendo games haven't?
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« Reply #98 on: December 07, 2005, 06:50:52 PM »

Quote
Why? Because of the unique gameplay and experiences it provides.

Probably not for this thread, but what unique gameplay experiences?  Seriously.  I mean, what games can you run that you can't emulate somewhere else from the N64, or play with a pen on a PDA?

From all the screenshots I've seen, the extra screen either adds more screen real estate (still less then the PSP), or offers a map or stats, neither seem innovative.   Give me a map on the same screen I'm racing on, so I can keep my eyes focused on one area.  I mean, how does Mario's screen usage make it a unique experience in anyway?

The pen stuff, where does that become innovative?  I don't see any unique uses on that either.

I tend to use my PSP a bunch at home when I don't want to deal with setting up the console, or for a quick break when I have a moment and don't want to attract the kids.

There are some interesting games for the DS, and Trauma Center is a cool concept, but I wouldn't say any of them are in anyway shape or form innovative, or more unique then Madden 06 and its cool new passing cone...

What about the Castlevania game on the DS?  How does it really differ from the GBA versions?  I guess you have to draw symbols on the screen, but that seems that it'd be more of a nuisance, since the rest of the game controls with the gamepad.  If I have to suddenly move my hands to a new play style at random intervals, that seems more of a pain, and forced use of the new touch screen.
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« Reply #99 on: December 07, 2005, 07:13:13 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"

There are some interesting games for the DS, and Trauma Center is a cool concept, but I wouldn't say any of them are in anyway shape or form innovative, or more unique then Madden 06 and its cool new passing cone...


It's official, your PSP fanatacism has reached unbelievably ridiculous heights.  If you're going to say that Madden, EA's Madden, the football game Madden (just making sure we're talking about the same game here) is more innovative and unique than Trauma Center or any other DS game, then it's kind of pointless to even argue points.  Because that, Scott, is insane.

Funny how this turned into a DS v PSP argument, but that's okay, since it's hard to form opinions on the Revolution just yet.  So this works out nicely biggrin

(just wanted to add that Farscry_Redux is the MAN)
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« Reply #100 on: December 07, 2005, 07:17:19 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"
Quote
There are some interesting games for the DS, and Trauma Center is a cool concept, but I wouldn't say any of them are in anyway shape or form innovative, or more unique then Madden 06 and its cool new passing cone...

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
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« Reply #101 on: December 07, 2005, 07:18:25 PM »

Quote
It's official, your PSP fanatacism has reached unbelievably ridiculous heights.

I was being sarcastic smile.  I don't even like the PSP that much, ask Devil!

Trauma Center is probably the game I'd like the DS for the most.  But in the end, isn't it mostly an arcade/reflex game?  You use the pen to manipulate it, but it just doesn't seem that original to me.  Good idea though, but I've played reflex games on PDA's with the stylus too.

I do think that Madden probably has evolved more then Mario Kart though smile.  Madden does add new features every year.  What has Mario Kart, or any of the Mario games really done to compare to Madden adding the Owners mode for example?  

Definitely more amusing then work.
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« Reply #102 on: December 07, 2005, 07:31:31 PM »

Quote from: "Devil"

Quote
Two months to churn out slightly above average (7.5-7.8 range per Gamerankings.com voters) ports from the existing system that offer nothing new to the gaming experience aside from being able to play it on the road.


FYE - You fail to mention that the highest rated Mario Kart ws the original and the highest rated Mario Party was the second one, the highest rated Castlevania was SoTN from 8 years ago...

So what you are saying is that the PSP games have a chance to get better while the Nintendo games haven't?


Actually, the difference is that pretty much ALL the PSP has to offer are direct (or near-direct) ports with a few notable exceptions, whereas most of the DS games (especially the highly rated ones) are either original games (yes, some feature known mascots) or sequels.  There are very few actual direct ports of games to the DS, so your analogy is off a bit.
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« Reply #103 on: December 07, 2005, 07:32:22 PM »

Quote from: "GatorFavre"
It is like arguing about politics, everyone has an opinion and no one else cares.  


I believe you're looking for the phrase "Opinions are like assholes; everyone has one, and they all smell like shit." Sorry about the language. slywink
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« Reply #104 on: December 07, 2005, 07:33:46 PM »

I still find it amusing that many of you bash the PSP when it hasn't been out as long as the DS.  

Just seems rather short-sighted, but to each their own I guess.  I enjoy my PSP and find that I am getting my money worth and in the end thats all that matter to me :p
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« Reply #105 on: December 07, 2005, 07:37:31 PM »

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Quote from: "corruptrelic"
How are we going to control a FPS game with that revolution controller anyway?


There are a few articles out there about how Metroid Prime was demo'ed using the controller.


Uhm, Metroid Prime is a First-Person ACTION game. puke
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« Reply #106 on: December 07, 2005, 07:42:55 PM »

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whereas most of the DS games (especially the highly rated ones) are either original games (yes, some feature known mascots) or sequels.

People keep making the point that a lot of the DS games aren't that original.  In fact, many aren't.  Some of the mascot games are ports from the Nintendo 64, or mostly ports with something extra, like wifi.  I mean, how much did Mario Kart add?  Since the last Mario Kart, there are probably more new things and differences with the Madden games over the years.

Quote
ALL the PSP has to offer are direct (or near-direct) ports with a few notable exceptions,

Yes, there are unique, fun original PSP games, just like there are a couple fun, unique PSP games.

It is hard to impossible to compare the review scores of the PSP vs the DS.  PSP games are judged against PS2 and XBox games, because of the type of game moved to the PSP, and how powerful the PSP is.

DS games are judged against Nintendo 64 and GBA games, because the DS isn't nearly as powerful.  

If you judged DS games against PS2 games, the DS scores would be significantly lower.   If you judged PSP games vs the N64, PSP games would be much higher.

Think about it, GTA on the PSP is judged against GTA San Andreas on the PS2/XBox.  X-Men 2 on the PSP against its counterparts on the PS2 and XBox.  Its the same with Burnout Legends, Virtua Tennis, Fifa, Tiger, Hot Shots Golf, etc. etc.

When reviewing DS games, they are always compared to the GBA and N64 counterparts.   Even the few original games on the DS are compared in the same way, against GBA and other portable games.

The PSP is amazing in that a portable system can be compared almost equally to full current console systems, and we expect to compare the PSP that way.
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« Reply #107 on: December 07, 2005, 07:46:22 PM »

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Actually, the difference is that pretty much ALL the PSP has to offer are direct (or near-direct) ports with a few notable exceptions, whereas most of the DS games (especially the highly rated ones) are either original games (yes, some feature known mascots) or sequels. There are very few actual direct ports of games to the DS, so your analogy is off a bit.


Give me the 'highly rated' DS games and I'll show you ports. Direct, indirect, undirect, overdirect, doesn't matter.

Mario 64
Castlevania
Animal Crossing
Mario and Luigi
Mario Kart
Advance Wars

If you consider the map screen for the DS a completely new game, then I guess we can stop there before I tell you EA Trax makes every game new for the PSP.
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« Reply #108 on: December 07, 2005, 07:48:45 PM »

Quote from: "tru1cy"
I still find it amusing that many of you bash the PSP when it hasn't been out as long as the DS.  

Just seems rather short-sighted, but to each their own I guess.  I enjoy my PSP and find that I am getting my money worth and in the end thats all that matter to me :p


On the time aspect, well, the PSP's been out almost as long, and at least as long as the time that passed by the time the DS hit its stride.  But in addition to that, I also recall people ripping on the DS when it launched for not having many games, but those same people giving the PSP a pass because the tech was so "cool".

Your second point, however, I can't argue with.  slywink  That's what it really comes down to.  I can always agree with someone who simply says they prefer something, but I have a hard time resisting arguments when people start throwing around hard and fast statements about the worthlessness of, say, the DS or the Revolution.  It's just like the people who were originally ripping the X-Box apart just because it was done by Microsoft, when the evidence was in place that they were putting together a solid gaming machine.  (Which is what it turned out to be)
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« Reply #109 on: December 07, 2005, 07:50:26 PM »

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...except you left out gameplay. And value for your gaming dollar.

Value for gaming dollar comes down to what you use.  Who cares if the DS is $100 if it sits in a desk drawer?

Why do Nintendo fans attack the PSP, instead of defending their products?

Being able to do more then play games is a great benefit to the PSP.  My kids will watch a movie on it to keep them calm in a store.  My wife takes the PSP to work now to watch movies when she works at night.  Being able to use the PSP to show photo slideshows at family get togethers is great, or listen to music if I want to.  That's a lot of extra use I can't get out of the DS.  Plus, games like GTA, X-Men 2, Burnout Legends, Virtua Tennis, and some of the newer RPGs are all great for your gaming dollar on the PSP, and fairly lengthy games.

I played Mario Kart and Mario 64 ten years ago, I don't want to play them again on the DS.

 
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I have no doubt that Nintendo itself can and will put out some very innovative and very fun games.

Maybe, but they have to bring more then Mario to the table, or the dying Pokemon, which they can't even do well anymore.

Quote
When you go to play Halo again, do you sit there thinking "holy crap, I can't believe I ever liked this game... it looks like shit! Oh my god, look at those low-res textures! what a bloated piece of overhyped crap!"

I do.  Amazing that a game with so many repeated textures, levels, and enemies, ever sold.  Older games like Halo have been surpassed now in many ways.  Sure, I may have fond memories of it, but why go back and play them?  Time is so short for a lot of people.  There are rare games old games that haven't been exceeded that I like to play, like Diablo II, but most older games are better served to be remembered, then played.


Thank you for encapsulating my thoughts.
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« Reply #110 on: December 07, 2005, 07:57:12 PM »

Quote from: "Farscry_Redux"
Quote from: "tru1cy"
I still find it amusing that many of you bash the PSP when it hasn't been out as long as the DS.  

Just seems rather short-sighted, but to each their own I guess.  I enjoy my PSP and find that I am getting my money worth and in the end thats all that matter to me :p


On the time aspect, well, the PSP's been out almost as long, and at least as long as the time that passed by the time the DS hit its stride.  But in addition to that, I also recall people ripping on the DS when it launched for not having many games, but those same people giving the PSP a pass because the tech was so "cool".

Your second point, however, I can't argue with.  slywink  That's what it really comes down to.  I can always agree with someone who simply says they prefer something, but I have a hard time resisting arguments when people start throwing around hard and fast statements about the worthlessness of, say, the DS or the Revolution.  It's just like the people who were originally ripping the X-Box apart just because it was done by Microsoft, when the evidence was in place that they were putting together a solid gaming machine.  (Which is what it turned out to be)




I don't see many people giving the PSP a pass due to the tech stand-point, but I do see your point.  

As a side note My 11yr old niece has just requested a DS from me for XMAS.   Sigh, the blood traitor slywink Tongue
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« Reply #111 on: December 07, 2005, 08:01:24 PM »

One thing the PSP has achieved is forcing Nintendo's hand.

They would not have released the DS if it wasnt for the PSP making the SP look like you Fathers Handheld.

Nintendo is content milking you for your dollar and not offering anything new unless they have to. IE: When I was at acclaim we were told three years in a row that they would offer a color Gameboy and the only released it when they had to. The same went for the illumintated gameboys...

I love what Nintendo is campable of but lets not forget the insanity that was the Gameboy Advance with those 3rd party lights..... I HATED THAT...  The PSP has forced their hand, they cant afford to lose the handheld race.
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« Reply #112 on: December 07, 2005, 08:04:20 PM »

I wont do it.
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« Reply #113 on: December 07, 2005, 08:04:49 PM »

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3632796742315484146&q=NINTENDO+ds
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« Reply #114 on: December 07, 2005, 08:11:05 PM »

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On the time aspect, well, the PSP's been out almost as long, and at least as long as the time that passed by the time the DS hit its stride. But in addition to that, I also recall people ripping on the DS when it launched for not having many games, but those same people giving the PSP a pass because the tech was so "cool".


I've said this before...

Maybe we could also cut the PSP some slack because Nintendo has been in the handheld business for 15 years longer than Sony. Not 6 months - FIFTEEN YEARS!!!

Sony blew past Nintendo's 9 year head start in the console market, why couldn't they do it here?

I know Nintendo is making money but the Playstation is the current king of the consoles and at the rate they are going, I don't see them taking a back seat in the handheld market either. Kinda like the way Apple has taken over the portable music scene from Sony.

By the way, I LOVE this thread. Fun stuff!
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« Reply #115 on: December 07, 2005, 08:15:12 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"
I do think that Madden probably has evolved more then Mario Kart though smile.  Madden does add new features every year.  What has Mario Kart, or any of the Mario games really done to compare to Madden adding the Owners mode for example?


How about only 5 iterations vs 77 kicks at the can to get it right?? (do a search on www.gamerankings.com )
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« Reply #116 on: December 07, 2005, 08:39:00 PM »

Quote from: "HankRaptor"
One thing the PSP has achieved is forcing Nintendo's hand.

They would not have released the DS if it wasnt for the PSP making the SP look like you Fathers Handheld.


And the PSP would not be at the price point it is if Nintendo hadn't sniped Sony's news conference with their own pricing announcement.

I also imagine that the DS was in development for some time, not just a slap-dash attempt to get something to market. The SP was definitely in response to the popularity of the Afterburner light modification.

And how is Nintendo milking us for our dollars when they're offering a superior machine (I won't dignify it with "next gen") for potentially $150? (The $99 Micro is another story.)
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« Reply #117 on: December 07, 2005, 08:41:34 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"
It is hard to impossible to compare the review scores of the PSP vs the DS.  PSP games are judged against PS2 and XBox games, because of the type of game moved to the PSP, and how powerful the PSP is.

DS games are judged against Nintendo 64 and GBA games, because the DS isn't nearly as powerful.  

If you judged DS games against PS2 games, the DS scores would be significantly lower.   If you judged PSP games vs the N64, PSP games would be much higher.


Erm, that doesn't make sense. Compare a portable system that costs 50% less than the PSP to a full console... right.

Here's my take on the PSP (since it somehow keeps being brought up in a REVOLUTION thread) : It is an expensive toy that doesn't do any one thing well enough to stand on it's own.

Gaming : The controls are weak based on the thumbpad, the shoulder buttons and the superlong load times.

Music : not enough storage unless you fork over for a large memory card, giving you as much storage as a cheap USB mp3 player that fits in a standard sized pocket. Oh, and look forward to having to re-encode your music so the PSP likes it.

Movies : storage is once again a problem for copying them over. The second issue is UMDs... I mean really. The PS3 isn't supporting them, so you have 1 market... PSP only. If you get tired of Spiderman 2, good luck getting your money's worth. They should be selling the UMD *with* the DVDs to break into the market.

Portability : if you don't mind carrying a lead shield around it, and have a team of 3rd world "employees without wages" willing to buff the screen everytime you pick it up as you've invariably smudged it, you're set.

Games : I haven't looked recently, but the games were dumbed-down ports. This means I've played a better version of it earlier, if I were at all interested in it.

Screen resolution : Kudos to the widescreen and a big WTF for the responsiveness. I mean, 19 LCD monitors have better responsiveness; you'd think a smaller screen with lower rez could look smoother.

my 2 cents.
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« Reply #118 on: December 07, 2005, 08:50:42 PM »

OK - I'll do it!

Here's my take on the DS (since it somehow keeps being brought up in a REVOLUTION thread) : It is an expensive toy that does one thing OK.

Gaming : The controls are weak based on the thumbpad, the shoulder buttons but ZERO load times.

Music : NOPE

Movies : NOPE

Portability : Not all that much smaller than the PSP with the Logitech case

Games : I've played almost all of them but the games were dumbed-down ports. This means I've played a better version of it earlier, if I were at all interested in it.

Screen : There are 2. Sometimes a game might use the bottom one for 'touch' applications. Nothing we haven't seen in a Palm.

Money: It's $100 cheaper than a machine that does all those things.

How's that!  :wink:
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« Reply #119 on: December 07, 2005, 08:54:17 PM »

WARNING :
This post is on-track, so please don't let it interrupt the DS vs PSP war going on. slywink

The revolution, as I see it, is going to make the gaming community bigger, and bring diversity into the marketplace. Sure, petting your doggie ain't a FPS that everyone wants, but alternate and marketable products only helps support innovation.

The only thing that a lower hardware standard means for REVO is that
A) We won't be getting lack-luster ports of games on 3 systems, only 2.
B) Nintendo will NEED to be producing more for their shelves as their library won't be artificially filled with games that were "token" like the cube.
C) They may well be facing a competition with the PS2 / Xbox market and stomping them out. My thinking is this : If I can buy a new car which isn't a porsche but ain't no slouch for the same price as the used minivan, why wouldn't I?

Their angle has changed, and honestly, it is the only feasible one. Sony has other major industries which affect their bottom line but they have buying power, and MS has deep pockets and market commitment stated where they intend to "Take on the world" as Purple Tentacle* put it.


* Day of the Tentacle reference just for you, Ron. slywink
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