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Author Topic: The real Revo controller  (Read 12923 times)
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kathode
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« Reply #80 on: September 16, 2005, 08:53:18 PM »

Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
You know what's hilarious?

When people are nearly begging for creativity in video games and we're stuck with endless boring sequels, yearly roster updates for sports games and an infinite supply of uninspired games, here we are, with a controller that BREAKS that barrier, is so totally outside of the box, and people shudder it, banish it and bash it.


Just because people say they want innovation and creativity doesn't mean you can just pull any wacky idea out of your ass, throw it at them, and expect people to go bonkers for you.  You've still got to serve up some proof that you've got a good idea.  Virtual Boy broke quite a few barriers.  Doesn't mean it was a good idea.
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« Reply #81 on: September 16, 2005, 08:55:09 PM »

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/mousedown/revo.swf

Demonstration of how the controller works.


 :lol:
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« Reply #82 on: September 16, 2005, 08:55:47 PM »

Thing of it is, no matter how innovative the controller is, unless there're games to bring out and show off that innovation, the point is moot.

Now that we have a neat idea of what to expect from the remote based on that movie filled with people swinging it left and right while staring into the camera, the next step is to see the actual applications of said ideas in games.
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« Reply #83 on: September 16, 2005, 09:09:39 PM »

Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/mousedown/revo.swf

Demonstration of how the controller works.


 :lol:


Flashmonkeys :rolleyes:
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« Reply #84 on: September 16, 2005, 09:17:30 PM »

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Thing of it is, no matter how innovative the controller is, unless there're games to bring out and show off that innovation, the point is moot.


There are game systems out there that do exactly what this controller is designed to do.  Commercially they are not very successful at all.
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« Reply #85 on: September 16, 2005, 09:24:11 PM »

The thing of it is...does anyone feel that it is a step backwards and not forwards?

I mean, we have things like the Pistol Mouse for the PC.  While that is a bit more unwiedly than the Revolution controller seems to be, the Pistol Mouse and similar contraptions would be more successful.

Maybe I can program it to control my TV, VCR, DVD player, and stereo receiver as well.
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« Reply #86 on: September 16, 2005, 09:28:06 PM »

Quote from: "Jumangi"
I get a kick out of people calling it "innovative". Has it proven to be that? Please point me to the stuff that shows this. Right now we have something thats wierd and diffrent.

Just because somethings is diffrent doesn't automatically make it "innovative".


Look at the definition of innovative and I'm sure you'll see that it applies.  I believe what you're trying to say is that it's not necessarily revolutionary.  And to that, I'll agree.  It's not revolutionary as of yet.  However, looking at the three next-gen systems, and the way their companies talk about them, the Revolution is easily the leader in revolutionary potential.  And that's what many people are responding so positively to.
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« Reply #87 on: September 16, 2005, 09:28:43 PM »

I'm guessing this thing would work like a charm for real-time strategy games.

Imagine Starcraft II controlled with this from the comfort of your couch.
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« Reply #88 on: September 16, 2005, 09:45:11 PM »

Possibilities are (seemingly) endless with this thing
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« Reply #89 on: September 16, 2005, 10:30:34 PM »

Quote from: "depward"
Possibilities are (seemingly) endless with this thing


For example: http://revolutiongame.ytmnd.com/ (NWS)
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« Reply #90 on: September 16, 2005, 10:33:42 PM »

Quote from: "depward"
Possibilities are (seemingly) endless with this thing


Both good and bad  :wink:
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« Reply #91 on: September 17, 2005, 12:39:44 AM »

There's a video on IGN which indicates what some of the uses for the controller might be. A lot of creative stuff including showing someone holding both controllers and playing drums and another using the hookup controler to move around and the normal controler as a flight light (imagine Fatal Frame with that setup?).

http://media.cube.ign.com/articles/651/651334/vids_1.html

I'm very exicted at the possibilites of this. Just gotta get the creative software developers to make the most of it.[/url]
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« Reply #92 on: September 17, 2005, 01:26:56 AM »

Quote from: "Crawley"
I'm very exicted at the possibilites of this. Just gotta get the creative software developers to make the most of it.


And therein lies the problem.  How many developers are going to be willing to develop a truly unique game solely for a platform that (most likely) will have the lowest user base?  In the current gaming world of 'more of the same is the only thing that makes money', will anyone be willing to take that risk?  

If the Revolution proves to be the catalyst that forces a change, I'm all for it.  I just don't see it happening.
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« Reply #93 on: September 17, 2005, 01:33:38 AM »

Quote from: "depward"
Quote from: "Jumangi"
I get a kick out of people calling it "innovative". Has it proven to be that? Please point me to the stuff that shows this. Right now we have something thats wierd and diffrent.

Just because somethings is diffrent doesn't automatically make it "innovative".

I get a kick out of people who call it disasterous, "DOA", "worst idea from Nintendo", and so on.  What's the difference if you call it "innovative" from others calling it a huge mistake?

Uh oh watch out!  If you read the article you would see how it's meant to have "remote control" instead of controller.  I don't see how it's funny.  I see how it's a correct headline for the story.

Sorry you don't approve of change or an original idea or concept.



Good job lumping me with other posters to try and derail my point. Did I say anywhere that this thing is a disaster already? The "worst" I've said is I'm personally not buying into it untill I see it in real action. Actually I think your response pretty much proves my point though. Somebody questions anything that Nintendo says or does...anything and they are labeled a hater who doesn't like "origional" ideas or "true innovation". :roll:

Just becuase something is diffrent from the norm doesn't automatically make it innovative. The word is used so much anymore I doubt most people actually know the meaning of the word.
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« Reply #94 on: September 17, 2005, 02:12:46 AM »

More thoughts...

I've been bored sick of video games lately. Wondered what kind of game I'd want to play. Actually thought that it'd be cool to have a very active and physically dynamic (i.e. jumpy) sword wielding game with a wide range of sword movement and technique. Then I wondered how in the hell you'd control it. The Revo Remote does this.

Like others said, what Star Wars fanboy wouldn't buy a Revo if it allowed you to play an accurate Jedi FSP or 3rd person game? Shits, I'd be all over the living room with the damn thing, slicing bitches up! The remote knows where it is relative to the unit, right? So couldn't you conceivably use it as a sort of VR stick, where the saber hilt is all that's really tracked, and the game/program assumes the position of the player based on the initial starting position? Like, you could spin and shit and pull all sorts of Star Wars Kid moves.

Now, that aside, where I wish Nintendo had taken the technology would have been to have created two mirror gyroscopic controllers, both with analogue sticks, two underside triggers, and a select number of buttons, shaped like the add-on shown in pictures. I think using both hands, almost like two VR controllers, would have been an amazing innovation. Almost like that crazy VR OS that Tom Cruse used in Minority Report - one step closer to really physically interacting with the system.


Edit: cleaning up muddled thoughts.
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« Reply #95 on: September 17, 2005, 02:26:01 AM »

Quote from: "Jumangi"
Quote from: "depward"
Quote from: "Jumangi"
I get a kick out of people calling it "innovative". Has it proven to be that? Please point me to the stuff that shows this. Right now we have something thats wierd and diffrent.

Just because somethings is diffrent doesn't automatically make it "innovative".

I get a kick out of people who call it disasterous, "DOA", "worst idea from Nintendo", and so on.  What's the difference if you call it "innovative" from others calling it a huge mistake?

Uh oh watch out!  If you read the article you would see how it's meant to have "remote control" instead of controller.  I don't see how it's funny.  I see how it's a correct headline for the story.

Sorry you don't approve of change or an original idea or concept.



Good job lumping me with other posters to try and derail my point. Did I say anywhere that this thing is a disaster already? The "worst" I've said is I'm personally not buying into it untill I see it in real action. Actually I think your response pretty much proves my point though. Somebody questions anything that Nintendo says or does...anything and they are labeled a hater who doesn't like "origional" ideas or "true innovation". :roll:

Just becuase something is diffrent from the norm doesn't automatically make it innovative. The word is used so much anymore I doubt most people actually know the meaning of the word.

Err, did I say you called it "disasterous" and such?  Actually, no, I didn't.

Sorry for "lumping" you with other posters . . . I guess . . .

I used your post only through the context that you said, "I get a kick out of people calling it 'innovative.'"  Calm down dude!  I'm not labeling you as a "hater" of innovation!  Don't worry!  Geesh
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« Reply #96 on: September 17, 2005, 03:59:00 AM »

Quote
And therein lies the problem. How many developers are going to be willing to develop a truly unique game solely for a platform that (most likely) will have the lowest user base?


I agree games are likely to be slim. Given a lot of comments about the controller Nintendo has already alienated a large portion of people. Even if they have a breakout game that shows what can be done with the hardware (ala Nintendogs) I still think it's likely to have less releases than the PS3 or XBox360. But pushing out more releases doesn't equate to titles worth playing. Each system, including this one, is going to must haves, a bunch of good games, followed by crap.

For me though its the fun factor that is going to matter. The potential of different types of games I'm seeing here, and how you interact with them, is a large selling point.

After 20 years of playing the same type of console games (and those were good years, not bad) this really looks like its going to offer a unique, and potentially very fun experience. I do hope it delivers.
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« Reply #97 on: September 17, 2005, 04:02:40 AM »

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« Reply #98 on: September 17, 2005, 04:12:18 AM »

Quote
Nintendo has not yet released official imagery of what the controller shell might look like. However, we've created a mock-up (above) based on what we know of its functionality. The real controller shell is likely to connect to the free-hand-style pointer in a very similar fashion. Please note that we realize our model is not entirely to scale, but this is the best we could do on short notice.


My bad. The picture blew me away before I had a chance to read the article.
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« Reply #99 on: September 17, 2005, 06:07:34 AM »

All of this is very interesting.  I'm quite excited.  Of course, my buying one of these at launch is all dependent on if there are any games I want at launch.

By the way, Hetz: why is it you're allowed to come in with negative comments about Nintendo in this thread, yet when people made negative comments about XBox 360 and Microsoft in your threads, you get all pissy?  Double standard, methinks?

Mike
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« Reply #100 on: September 17, 2005, 06:08:34 AM »

Well, I love the idea of this controller. The sheer range of different games you can make with this remote controll...

Also they say you can use the old controllers if you like so I do not understand why everyone is clanking down on it because they think it will not work well with a particular game.

As for the amount of games... I only own a gamecube as a console and never felt the lack. I own maybe 20 games or so. Most of them are very good.

Anyway I am not trying to start a flamewar but maybe people could wait  a while before deciding it is trash. Futile, I know.  smile

I can't wait until I try a golf game on that thing Tongue
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« Reply #101 on: September 17, 2005, 06:43:17 AM »

Quote from: "Jocke"
I can't wait until I try a golf game on that thing Tongue

Yeah!  I could see how the set-up with be very interesting with a golf game!
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« Reply #102 on: September 17, 2005, 02:35:09 PM »

Quote from: "depward"

Err, did I say you called it "disasterous" and such?  Actually, no, I didn't.

Sorry for "lumping" you with other posters . . . I guess . . .

I used your post only through the context that you said, "I get a kick out of people calling it 'innovative.'"  Calm down dude!  I'm not labeling you as a "hater" of innovation!  Don't worry!  Geesh


You quoted me when you made your post, so yea I think its reasonable to think you were including me in your statements if even indirectly.
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« Reply #103 on: September 17, 2005, 03:13:42 PM »

Eh, guys, don't argue over semantics. heck Jumangi, I think you quoted me, but used what I had quoted from someone else, and then you wrote almost exactly what I did underneath the quote. So who cares who said what...

It is discouraging that some people think this could be a bad thing. Even if it blows up in Nintendo's face, at the very least they tried something different. They are trying to expand video games and give us different experiences.

While I'll probably own a 360, all based on japanese support, I would still highly consider the Revo for nothing other than the legacy support and the opportunity to try different games.

Another thing I believe a lot of folks are focussing on is the remote part. I believe Nintendo will pack in the analog stick with two triggers, and to me that makes the controller a lot more appealing. I'm with Rage in that the remote needs to be more ergonomic, but Nintendo has stated that these are the early models, so hopefully that can change, but when I think about using the motion-wand or whatever in conjunction with an analog stick I can see some neat experiences.

Lastly, let's hope Nintendo revolutionizes in the games department. Both in publishing and developing games. There can not be any months without a new release, and to be successful Nintendo needs to release pretty much every single game created for the machine on a worldwide basis. Otherwise it's just the same old Nintendo but with a motion-wand controller.


What really bothers me is that this annoucement has over-shadowed the impending release of Battalion Wars, which got a great IGN review and looks to be outstanding.
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« Reply #104 on: September 17, 2005, 05:00:48 PM »

I mentioned it before but I really hope Blizzard is looking closely at the Revolution.  All their "real-time" games (minus WoW) could be adapted for the Revo's controller.  Diablo III?  Starcraft II?  This could allow for control options that a gamepad just doesn't work well for.
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« Reply #105 on: September 17, 2005, 05:12:26 PM »

Saw these revo addon concepts on gamespot forums. Not that they are real, but they do show what could be do with it.

. Attach the thumb controller thing to this smile .

(Whoever did this should have made the triggers the gas and brake, not the buttons)

I really want to see real demos of it in use and not just people moving around where you never see the screen.

At least they are including more traditional controller to so the system isnt stuck with just the new control as input.
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« Reply #106 on: September 17, 2005, 05:54:51 PM »

There is a lot of speculation in these addons I'm seeing for the controller.  I ask you, when has Nintendo historically supported their system with such addons?  Sure, they promise them heavily but in the end they never materialize.  I'd like to say I believe this will be great and all, but until E3 when I can put my hands on it, I'm not holding my breath.
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« Reply #107 on: September 17, 2005, 07:22:58 PM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
There is a lot of speculation in these addons I'm seeing for the controller.  I ask you, when has Nintendo historically supported their system with such addons?  Sure, they promise them heavily but in the end they never materialize.  I'd like to say I believe this will be great and all, but until E3 when I can put my hands on it, I'm not holding my breath.


Powerglove.  Light bazooka.  Bongos.

It's also never been imperative for Nintendo (or Sony or Microsoft for that matter) to release peripherals for increased functionality.  With a controller this foreign looking, it makes more sense to release a more standard gamepad or steering wheel peripheral.  This is also the first controller where "add-on" functionality is a distinct possibility.  Meaning you retain the tilt, wireless, and menu capabilities of the initial remote, but add-on buttons or control surfaces that make gameplay more intuitive.  I don't have the controller design notes to reference, but the ability to piggyback on the existing capabilities of the controller, instead of having to do it all from the ground up, could also save on the cost of such devices - which has always been a stumbling block in the peripheral market.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - the Revolution is full of potential.  Whether that potential is realized or not is up to Nintendo, third-party developers, and a willing consumer base.  I, for one, am giddy with the possibilies, and hopeful that the Revolution's full potential will be realized even beyond current speculation.  't'would be a shame for "Revolution" to be nothing more than a name.
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« Reply #108 on: September 17, 2005, 08:41:15 PM »

Quote from: "Rage"
That is a phenomenal statement considering that even the most die hard of Nintendo fans would admit that in the last several years there have only been a handful of GCN exclusives that were good. When they were good, they were fantastic-but "all about the games"? Please, lets see the games first.


I was speaking to their corporate direction, not necessarily their market success with the Gamecube specifically.

Also keep in mind, this is coming from me, a big Xbox gamer... "N" is all about the games. I didn't say they've excelled with the GC; you don't see them releasing anything but offline games though. The GBA and DS show that they are very much alive and profitable in their specialized field.
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« Reply #109 on: September 17, 2005, 08:54:57 PM »

I've GOT TO SAY THIS....

I think they're riding the iPod style into everyone's livingroom. Did you see those concept photos ? Tell me that doesn't look like the iPod interconnectivity that the world has been eating up with a $400 spoon.
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« Reply #110 on: September 18, 2005, 04:52:24 AM »

If it plays Animal Crossing II I'm in!!  biggrin
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« Reply #111 on: September 18, 2005, 06:58:00 AM »

Quote from: "PaulBot"
If it plays Animal Crossing II I'm in!!  biggrin

I think that's a given.  Especially since they're releasing Animal Crossing on the DS.
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« Reply #112 on: September 19, 2005, 05:35:01 AM »

Quote from: "PaulBot"
If it plays Animal Crossing II I'm in!!  biggrin


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ x 1000

So when do we see the first actual games on this thing?  E3 next year?
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« Reply #113 on: September 19, 2005, 10:17:39 AM »

The only two reasons I have for going Nintendo are Zelda and Metroid.  

If those arent forthcoming, Im probably out.  Innovation is great and all, but this old dog isnt all that displeased with his current gaming experiences.
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« Reply #114 on: September 19, 2005, 05:36:26 PM »

Those are some really, really cool concept shots. Just thinking about the possibilities of the Revolution have me really interested in what Nintendo and crew can put out.

Personally, it's still all about the games in my mind. However, Nintendo is trying again to innovate the gaming world. They've succeeded multiple times in the past (NES controller, analog stick, rumble pack), but they've also failed before (Virtual Boy), so one wonders which side of the fence this console will fall upon.
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« Reply #115 on: September 19, 2005, 05:57:27 PM »

Quote
Personally, it's still all about the games in my mind. However, Nintendo is trying again to innovate the gaming world. They've succeeded multiple times in the past (NES controller, analog stick, rumble pack), but they've also failed before (Virtual Boy), so one wonders which side of the fence this console will fall upon.


Virtual Boy?  The list is a little longer than that:

Zapper - 3 games support it
Super Scope - Same 3 games support it
Wavebird - 3rd party mfgs can get rumble and make it look exactly the same, why can't Nintendo?
Congo Drums - 2 games support it
Robbie the Robot - 2, maybe 3 games support it
64DD -> announced here, never materialized.  Only a few games supported in Japan
Power Pad - Did anyone not immediately smack this thing with their hands instead of trying to run on it?
Roll and Rocker - One game supported
Batter Up Bat - one game supported
TeeV Golf controller - one game supported
Miracle Piano System - 480 bucks, and one game supported
Zoomer - one game supported
U-Force Accessory - I'm gonna say no games supported this terrible controller
Memory upgrade for N64 - handful of games supported it

I'm just saying that Nintendo + peripherials = disaster.  Maybe this one will be different but it won't be my pocketbook that tests that theory.
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« Reply #116 on: September 19, 2005, 06:20:12 PM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
[Virtual Boy?  The list is a little longer than that:

Zapper - 3 games support it
Super Scope - Same 3 games support it
Wavebird - 3rd party mfgs can get rumble and make it look exactly the same, why can't Nintendo?
Congo Drums - 2 games support it
Robbie the Robot - 2, maybe 3 games support it
64DD -> announced here, never materialized.  Only a few games supported in Japan
Power Pad - Did anyone not immediately smack this thing with their hands instead of trying to run on it?
Roll and Rocker - One game supported
Batter Up Bat - one game supported
TeeV Golf controller - one game supported
Miracle Piano System - 480 bucks, and one game supported
Zoomer - one game supported
U-Force Accessory - I'm gonna say no games supported this terrible controller
Memory upgrade for N64 - handful of games supported it

Okay, let's cut down some of this list:

Zapper/Super Scope - light gun games in general (not on a Nintendo system) have been a near disaster. The only popular series I can think of that's sold guns are the Time Crisis series. Beyond that, gun games, and guns in general, are a bad idea.

Wavebird - the reason this isn't a failure is simple - Nintendo was first to come out with a lag-free wireless controller that lasted a very long time on one set of batteries. And they showed the gaming public (because of all the clones that came out, and how the Xbox 360 and PS3 have wireless controllers) that wireless is the way to go.

Congo Drums, Power Pad, other devices/controllers I've never heard of (amazingly enough) - see Zapper above. There was a link somewhere on another site to some developer's blog, that showed that Nintendo has tried many, many times with new ideas, to see if they'll be hits or not. And come on - did you ever seriously think that these things would be hits?

The 64DD and the Memory Upgrade - those were simply attempts to 'expand' the console's life. The DD could be best described as the Sega CD (just without any good games at all), but the memory card was just another gimmick again. But there were some great games that needed it.

Overall, Nintendo has failed on exactly one gaming console in their life, and basically their one total failure - the Virtual Boy. They've released a bunch of questionable accessories, but haven't all the companies done the same thing? How widely popular was the internet adaptor for the PS2? Or the system link? Or the 4-player adaptor? Or the HD? What about the light gun on the Xbox? Or the Memory Card?
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« Reply #117 on: September 19, 2005, 06:35:06 PM »

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Zapper/Super Scope - light gun games in general (not on a Nintendo system) have been a near disaster. The only popular series I can think of that's sold guns are the Time Crisis series. Beyond that, gun games, and guns in general, are a bad idea.
Those guns are 3rd party - the zapper and scope are first party.  They made it, now support it!

Quote
Wavebird - the reason this isn't a failure is simple - Nintendo was first to come out with a lag-free wireless controller that lasted a very long time on one set of batteries. And they showed the gaming public (because of all the clones that came out, and how the Xbox 360 and PS3 have wireless controllers) that wireless is the way to go.
Hmm...my wireless PS2 controller long before the Wavebird says otherwise.  Wavebird = halfass me-too

Quote
Congo Drums, Power Pad, other devices/controllers I've never heard of (amazingly enough) - see Zapper above. There was a link somewhere on another site to some developer's blog, that showed that Nintendo has tried many, many times with new ideas, to see if they'll be hits or not. And come on - did you ever seriously think that these things would be hits?
Again - Nintendo made em and then didn't support em.  Thats why I didn't include the custom controllers from companies like Bandai for instance.

Quote
The 64DD and the Memory Upgrade - those were simply attempts to 'expand' the console's life. The DD could be best described as the Sega CD (just without any good games at all), but the memory card was just another gimmick again. But there were some great games that needed it.
Other than Zelda, name one game that was 'great' that needed it.  We put Tony Hawk for 64 against the PS2 version and it isn't even a contest.  Hell, for any game on the 64.  Thats a great lead into....

Quote
Overall, Nintendo has failed on exactly one gaming console in their life, and basically their one total failure - the Virtual Boy. They've released a bunch of questionable accessories, but haven't all the companies done the same thing? How widely popular was the internet adaptor for the PS2? Or the system link? Or the 4-player adaptor? Or the HD? What about the light gun on the Xbox? Or the Memory Card?

The 64 was a complete disaster.  Overpriced games that were inferior to any other versions.  For the most part, only the 1st party titles were worthy and they were so few and far between that I simply packed it back in the box to reclaim the entertainment center space between games.  

As for the PS2 and Xbox, yea, they've had their fair share of flops and missteps.  Neither is immune, but you don't see Sony or MS basing their entire plan around something  they've never supported do you?
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« Reply #118 on: September 19, 2005, 07:12:56 PM »

I think your expectations of Nintendo "support" are ridiculous.  Exactly how many bongo games do you expect them to make?  I think it's fairly obvious most of these peripherals were designed intentionally with only one or two games in mind.  Was Steel Battalion on the Xbox a failure because the controller only supported one game?

Also, the N64 RAM expansion was very well supported:

Donkey Kong 64
The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask
Perfect Dark
Excitebike 64
Gauntlet Legends
Jet Force Gemini
Mario Golf
Quake 2
Resident Evil 2
Star Wars Rouge Squadron
Star Wars Episode 1 Racer
Star Wars Episode 1 Battle for Naboo
Turok 2 Seeds of Evil
Turok 3 Shadow of Oblivion
Turok Rage Wars

This is also the first time I've ever heard anyone complain about the Wavebird.  Every review I read was a rave.
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« Reply #119 on: September 19, 2005, 07:27:12 PM »

There's a must read about the Revolution from a market point of view that has some great stuff... one of the most informed articles I've read in a while.

Well worth a read regardless of which next-gen system(s) you are hedging your bets on - it makes a good case for why Nintendo makes the seemingly irrational decisions it does, and how the Revolution will be profitable not only for BigN but for MS and Sony as well.

Be warned - this isn't your typical fanboy point of view article; in fact, it's something you would expect to see at a shareholder's meeting than anywhere else.  Great stuff though!
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