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Author Topic: The Guild 2  (Read 8290 times)
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Kobra
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« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2006, 05:11:30 AM »

Quote from: Tals on November 10, 2006, 11:14:32 PM

Quote from: 'Kobra'
First, read the manual - 2-3 times seems to be good, it is CRITICAL to have the manual, I couldn't even imagine trying to play without it. 

Out of interest what is the manual like - small/large, good bad etc

Tals

The manual is packed with good data but not very big (50ish pages), but has charts for things like Birth-Signs, that someone pirating the game would have NO clue what they actually do and what signs work best with that professions.   Things like that, and the learning curve to the game can be pretty high, the manual indeed helps.

The Guild 2 has shown no signs of souring for me after at least 30 hours of gameplay in it.  It is now one of the primary games we play on the lan when people come over, it is hard to explain why it is so addicting, but it is.  My son and I plan to continue our long running saved multiplayer coop lan session where we are both men of cloth, I think we are at least 4-5 hours into playing that particular save!

Early GoTY nominee for me without question.
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« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2006, 01:22:59 AM »

Kobra, how do you think the dev's are going to handle fixing the remaining problems?  Last time they did a terrible job of post-game support.  I konw they've already released a big patch... but if you've spent time on their forums... do they seem more dedicated to fixing everything else this time around?
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« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2006, 01:29:50 AM »

Quote from: jpinard on November 13, 2006, 01:22:59 AM

Kobra, how do you think the dev's are going to handle fixing the remaining problems?  Last time they did a terrible job of post-game support.  I konw they've already released a big patch... but if you've spent time on their forums... do they seem more dedicated to fixing everything else this time around?

Quite honestly, I don't think it needs much in the way of patchs, we've only run into 1 small bug after about 50 hours of gameplay into it, and that was pretty easy to overcome.   But alas, their last patch showed a lot of dedication to the game imo, it came out quick, and fixed all known issues at the time.

I would have no complaints if they never released another patch - it is that good.  But to answer your question, the devs seem much more active this time around.   thumbsup
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« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2006, 10:42:25 AM »

Hi guys. I'm new to this forum. Just stumbled across this thread when looking up some info about The Guild 2.

This post is specifically for Kobra. I find it hard to believe what you're saying in this thread. I've had this game now for about a week and I'm finding it to be almost unplayable. Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm wondering if you've actually spent any time on the official Guild 2 forums. If you had, then you'd realise that virtually everyone is having problems with this game.

I don't understand how you can say that if the developers never released another patch, it wouldn't matter. I also don't understand how you can play a multiplayer game (or just a singleplayer game for that matter) for hours without encountering any bugs. I've played several singleplayer games and a couple of multiplayer games with three people and the game is just bug ridden.

Now before you jump on me about my system setup or something, let me clarify that all three games are running on v1.2 and all three have the latest video drivers, etc... Here are the basic specs.

1. GeForce 7900GT, AMD64 3200+, 2GB RAM
2. ATI X850, Intel Dual Core 3.2, 1GB RAM
3. Radeon 9800 Pro, Intel 2.8, 1GB RAM

As you can see, the systems, game version and drivers shouldn't be causing any major problems. However, system 3 has major graphical glitches after about 15mins of play and then freezes. Memory leaks cause the game to slow down over time (30+ mins). Save games often don't reload, causing the game to crash to Windows. And in the 6+ hours I've personally played the game, I've encountered more game play bugs than you can point a can of fly spray at. Everything from characters getting stuck due to path finding errors, to terrible AI causing businesses to run at a loss when AI managed, and don't get me started on the town hall bugs (i.e. when running court cases, elections, etc...). Far too many for me to list or even remember off the top of my head.

I get the feeling that you have probably just worked around the bugs since most of them can be if you change the way you do something, such as turning AI off, or trying to do a task with a different order of mouse clicks. If you've just "settled" with this approach, then sure you can live with the bugs, but it is hardly satisfactory.

I don't know, but I'm also wondering if maybe you work for the developer/publisher or are being offered goods and/or services in exchange for good feedback. You obviously have a high standing on this forum as you have a lot of posts, so it makes sense. And when I read about the detailed exploits you write, it sounds far too much like well polished game box blurbs rather than off-the-cuff typing.

In addition, you tend to lean heavily against piracy and offer quite a number of reasons why you shouldn't pirate the game. If you were truly neutral, why take such a strong stance against it? What do you care what other people do?

One of your reasons is the manual. I'm not sure how you can use that as a plus again piracy as it is pretty worthless. It is just 50 pages of "fluff" and general obvious information that can be leant by playing the tutorials anyway. You also say that a lot of things would be missed by a pirate since they don't have the manual, such as which signs go best with which professions. Not sure if you noticed, but you can right-click (and hold) on everything for detailed information. When you create a character, just right-click (and hold) on the signs and professions for detailed information (far more detail than what is provided in the manual too). Please provide examples of information found in the manual that cannot be easily learnt in the game.

You also mentioned that you had a friend over for a quick 1 hour game, in which your friend did really well and won. After which he said he would be buying it. If your friend had never played before (but you had) then how did he win? As you correctly identified, this game has a steep learning curve, yet your friend some how managed to pick it up and win against a seemingly well versed player, and did it in an hour.

Which brings me to another point. How are you having 60-90min games and actually getting all the stuff done that you claim? In your elaborate stories, you discuss all your many exploits, which were achieved in a 90min game. I find it total unreasonable that you achieved that much in 90mins. Many people complain that the game progresses to fast and you cannot achieve enough with your character.

Anyway, this kind of turned into a longer post than I anticipated and I'm being waited on to start a new LAN game, so I'll come back later.
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Tals
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« Reply #44 on: November 13, 2006, 10:52:20 AM »

Welcome to the forums, I hope you stick around.

This is exactly what I was wanting - some additional feedback other than Kobra's, Kobra's I do find good but having only one person rave above a game does make you wonder.

Out of interest putting the bug issues to one side - would you still buy the game again and how are you actually finding it? I'm so tempted to get it but at the same time it does feel like the game could swamp you with the amount of flexibility it offers. Then again I was reading the forums and one of the players was showing how he had thiefs working for him - spying out possible houses etc - sounded amazing.

I've also been keeping an eye on the forums - a very loose eye I might add, the impression I had was that patch 1.2 had improved things considerably.

Tals
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« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2006, 12:11:53 PM »

Quote from: potentialcustomer on November 13, 2006, 10:42:25 AM

I don't know, but I'm also wondering if maybe you work for the developer/publisher or are being offered goods and/or services in exchange for good feedback.

It wouldn't be the first time...

Quote from: potentialcustomer on November 13, 2006, 10:42:25 AM

You obviously have a high standing on this forum

Don't count on it

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« Reply #46 on: November 13, 2006, 01:30:22 PM »

OK, I'm back from my latest Guild 2 LAN session with three players including myself. The game lasted for about 2 hours and surprisingly (for the first time) it ran OK from start to finish. We were saving religiously in case the game decided to checkout the desktop. The only question is, will it load OK tomorrow when we come back to continue our game? Time will tell...

Now, I'll point out that with system 3 (from my previous post), I changed the video drivers. It is now using the latest Omega ATI drivers instead of the vanilla ATI drivers. I read on another forum that the Omega ATI drivers work better with this game. That seems to have resolved the graphical problems with system 3. I didn't change the drivers on the other two (including the other ATI one) as they are fine. If it's not broke...

I'll also point out that we came across a number of bugs will playing. Nothing that crashed the game or caused any major problems. They are all minor, but enough to annoy you and make us all have to stop while we help one player work around some bug. Like I said before, working around bugs usually involves approaching the situation differently. Such as exiting a building and then going back in, or clicking on things in a different order, etc...

I pretty much know my way around the Craftsman profession now. Well enough to carve a living. The other two players are completely fresh and they really struggled. It took them the entire two hours just to grasp what they are doing. I think the open-endedness of the game can be a little daunting at first as there are a lot of options. The other two players are seasoned PC gamers of every genre so I still don't understand how Kobra's mate can come in, pick up the game and kick butt in less than an hour. Must be one of Einsteinís kids. saywhat

In the two hours we played, we managed to buy a business each, make a few thousand gold, get married and pop out a kid (well two of us did, the other guy's not so crash hot with the ladies). All that was pushing it too. I mean we were playing as fast as a novice can play. Even if we were more experienced, I don't know how we could have clicked any faster, made our guys walk faster, build faster or make money faster. To be honest, I like it slow though. Gives you time to enjoy the finer details of medieval life.

Tals:
Yes, I would still buy the game again despite the bugs. Like I said, if you want to "settle" and work around some issues every now and then it's OK. If the developers come out with another patch and don't make it some "Gold Edition" that you have to buy again, then it should be good. Yes, v1.2 is a big improvement, but I would not call it acceptable yet. The concept is amazing, the attention to detail is superb and the execution is well thought out. The implantation has just let them down. If they do a v1.3 then it should be pretty tight.

I'll post again tomorrow after we continue our little game and see how it holds together.
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Kobra
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« Reply #47 on: November 13, 2006, 01:52:29 PM »

Quote from: potentialcustomer on November 13, 2006, 10:42:25 AM

I've had this game now for about a week and I'm finding it to be almost unplayable.

Quote from: potentialcustomer on November 13, 2006, 10:42:25 AM

I'll also point out that we came across a number of bugs will playing. Nothing that crashed the game or caused any major problems. They are all minor

Which is it?

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« Reply #48 on: November 13, 2006, 03:11:46 PM »

Turns out I did make it to Fry's as stated earlier in the thread and am several single-player games in at this point.  Overall, I'm disappointed. Not due to bugs (which have been minor, yet annoying), but due to lack of innovation. For all intents and purposes The Guild 2 plays identically to The Guild. Sure, some of the mechanics are a little less clunky (spying on others), but I've already become "meh" on the title and feel like "bored" is fast approaching.

As far as the bugs go, I've had no game-stopping bugs. I have, however, had several problems with the political system (trials, offices, etc) that have been frustrating enough to basically kill any political aspirations I've had up to this point.

In regards to some recent comments in this thread: I, too, find 60-90 minutes is FAR too short a time-span to get far in this game. I can't say that Kobra's multi-player exploits are impossible, but I can only imagine them being possible with highly experienced players and judicious use of the speed control.
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Kobra
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« Reply #49 on: November 13, 2006, 04:06:31 PM »

Quote from: CrayolaSmoker on November 13, 2006, 03:11:46 PM

For all intents and purposes The Guild 2 plays identically to The Guild. Sure, some of the mechanics are a little less clunky (spying on others).

You say that like it is a bad thing!  I liked the first one but hated the damn clunky nature and fairly poor engine which ultimately soured my end experiences.  This takes the first game, refines it, wraps it into a new engine, removes the clunky annoyances - I couldn't ask for more than that.  Certainly it isn't a revolution in the series, more of a evolution, and frankly, that is often all I want in some series.  IMO some series do better to stick with the concepts that work, rather than try to reinvent the wheel.

I should add a disclaimer that 90% of our gaming here is competative or coop over the lan, so we tend to get far far more mileage out of our games than the average joe playing alone.  I probably would tire of this game after 40-50 hours (still good) if all I did was play it solo, but over the lan I expect to get 100-150+ hours out of it over the life of it.
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« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2006, 06:48:19 PM »

OK I managed to grab a copy on ebay for 15$ so hopefully will be able to get my own impressions up once I get it within the week hopefully.

Tals
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Kobra
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« Reply #51 on: November 13, 2006, 07:02:22 PM »

Quote from: Tals on November 13, 2006, 06:48:19 PM

OK I managed to grab a copy on ebay for 15$ so hopefully will be able to get my own impressions up once I get it within the week hopefully.

Tals

Damn.. Amazing price..  But make sure it isn't an auction like this;

Old school ebay scam trick.

Which LOOKS like "The Guild 2 in the title, but isn't.. This is just the old game with a scam-type header to try and trick people.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2006, 07:04:57 PM by Kobra » Logged

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« Reply #52 on: November 13, 2006, 07:44:42 PM »

Good advice - i'm reasonably savvy on ebay - having been hit by a scam from someone buying from me - they failed but the pain of retrieving listing fees etc made me far more careful.

The item looks genuine - i'll be giving my sob story in a few weeks time if its not smile

Tals
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« Reply #53 on: November 15, 2006, 04:32:07 PM »

After the crap they pulled with the first Guild, I'll never buy anything from that developer OR JoWood ever again.   finger
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Tals
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« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2006, 08:30:46 PM »

OK game has arrived. Manual was pretty much as described by Kobra - 50 pages but i'd go on the side of being a more useful manaual than i'd usually expect. I can imagine having several reads of his.

Game is patched to 1.2 so now all it needs is for some play time. I'll post impressions in a few days when I've had some time in game.

Tals
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« Reply #55 on: December 21, 2006, 07:28:24 PM »

If anyone's interested, this is going for $14.99 on GoGamer right now.  I purchased it as a result of this thread.
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« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2006, 08:19:24 PM »

Anyone got any more impressions? Kobra makes it sound enticing, but I need more than that to force a purchase!
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« Reply #57 on: December 22, 2006, 07:12:26 AM »

I have the game but amazingly bar installing it i've not fired it up. A new years resolution I guess because I want to play it smile
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« Reply #58 on: December 22, 2006, 08:33:56 AM »

62% on Game Rankings. Pretty sure this one is safe to skip.
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Kobra
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« Reply #59 on: December 22, 2006, 05:13:49 PM »

99% of the reviews were done before the 1.2 patch, I can't say how the game was before that patch, because I avoided it until it arrived.  But I can say that games with huge learning curves and complex systems score poorly at most review sites because they do not lend themselves to the tight schedules reviewers have. (Get in, get out, review)

GoTY top contender for me, but I love complex systems and games off rails. 100+ hour game for us, one of the pinnacles of 2006.
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« Reply #60 on: December 23, 2006, 05:32:52 AM »

Alternately, it's more of the same with little more to offer than the original. Easily skippable if you've played the first one. A decent bargain title if you're into genre but have not.
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« Reply #61 on: December 23, 2006, 08:12:49 PM »

I so wanted to like the first one. I even bought the first version and gold version....

But I always got bogged down in the damn tutorial...and it never really took off for me..
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Kobra
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« Reply #62 on: December 24, 2006, 05:06:39 AM »

Quote from: Bulletproof on December 23, 2006, 08:12:49 PM

I so wanted to like the first one. I even bought the first version and gold version....

But I always got bogged down in the damn tutorial...and it never really took off for me..

Try the demo for the Guild 2.. It contains the full tutorial, I guarantee you will get through it this time. 
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« Reply #63 on: January 02, 2007, 04:34:41 PM »

So I installed it and played a few hours this weekend.  I'm not really getting into it and it looks like it's sadly on its way to the permanent backlog.  Any hints/tips for having fun with this game?  I'll probably put a few more hours into it, but I don't have high hopes.
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« Reply #64 on: January 02, 2007, 11:37:32 PM »

I tried the demo, unfortunately it glitched on me and didn't allow me to proceed through the tutorial past entering my own smithy building.  I uninstalled it.
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« Reply #65 on: January 07, 2007, 09:44:47 AM »

I got this about 3 weeks ago and still haven't installed it.  Is the game ripe for play yet or should I wait for further patches?  I hate starting an in-depth game, and then having a patch come in 1/2-way through.  Because I always restart full games when a patch is released... it's on OCD thing.
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« Reply #66 on: January 07, 2007, 05:22:39 PM »

Quote from: jpinard on January 07, 2007, 09:44:47 AM

I got this about 3 weeks ago and still haven't installed it.  Is the game ripe for play yet or should I wait for further patches?  I hate starting an in-depth game, and then having a patch come in 1/2-way through.  Because I always restart full games when a patch is released... it's on OCD thing.

Everything I have read said it's buggy as hell (Kobra seems to be the only person who likes it on the forums I read). If the first one is any indication, there will never be a patch that fixes it.
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Kobra
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« Reply #67 on: January 07, 2007, 09:59:44 PM »

Quote from: jpinard on January 07, 2007, 09:44:47 AM

I got this about 3 weeks ago and still haven't installed it.  Is the game ripe for play yet or should I wait for further patches?  I hate starting an in-depth game, and then having a patch come in 1/2-way through.  Because I always restart full games when a patch is released... it's on OCD thing.

1.2 makes the game what I would call bug-free, or about as bug free as a game can get.  I haven't run into a bug, after a good 100 hours of gameplay in it.  I wouldn't expect a major patch anytime soon myself.
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« Reply #68 on: January 08, 2007, 05:30:19 AM »

Quote from: Kobra on January 07, 2007, 09:59:44 PM

Quote from: jpinard on January 07, 2007, 09:44:47 AM

I got this about 3 weeks ago and still haven't installed it.  Is the game ripe for play yet or should I wait for further patches?  I hate starting an in-depth game, and then having a patch come in 1/2-way through.  Because I always restart full games when a patch is released... it's on OCD thing.

1.2 makes the game what I would call bug-free, or about as bug free as a game can get.  I haven't run into a bug, after a good 100 hours of gameplay in it.  I wouldn't expect a major patch anytime soon myself.

Honestly, I gotta disagree. The political system is buggy as hell. Rest of the game appears to run smoothly, though, for what it's worth.
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« Reply #69 on: January 09, 2007, 01:25:38 PM »

Quote from: CrayolaSmoker on January 08, 2007, 05:30:19 AM

Quote from: Kobra on January 07, 2007, 09:59:44 PM

Quote from: jpinard on January 07, 2007, 09:44:47 AM

I got this about 3 weeks ago and still haven't installed it.  Is the game ripe for play yet or should I wait for further patches?  I hate starting an in-depth game, and then having a patch come in 1/2-way through.  Because I always restart full games when a patch is released... it's on OCD thing.

1.2 makes the game what I would call bug-free, or about as bug free as a game can get.  I haven't run into a bug, after a good 100 hours of gameplay in it.  I wouldn't expect a major patch anytime soon myself.

Honestly, I gotta disagree. The political system is buggy as hell. Rest of the game appears to run smoothly, though, for what it's worth.

and user mods attempt to fix the buggy political system?
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Kobra
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« Reply #70 on: January 09, 2007, 01:32:14 PM »

I never ran into any bugs in the political system, what specifically are there in terms of bugs?
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