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Author Topic: [PC/360/Ps3] The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - Impressions, tweaks and more!  (Read 57043 times)
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« on: November 23, 2010, 04:22:56 PM »

from Eurogamer (thanks MO!), their Denmark compatriots claim to have a confirmed source on this.  I know, I know, evil levelling yadda yadda.  I wonder how direct of a sequle to Oblivion it is going to be, considering the events at the end of Oblivion left the empire in an awkward state.


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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2010, 05:12:52 PM »

It's amazing what a song can do.
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2010, 10:10:19 PM »

After playing Nehrim and Divine Divinity 2 as well as the Arcania demo I also feel the graphics in Oblivion are somewhat dated. Be interesting to see what the new game looks like. Yes, I felt Oblivion had problems, but every new ES game needs to be looked at and considered. Sounds like it's still a ways off though.
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2010, 10:19:03 PM »

The funny thing is Divine Divinity 2 uses the same engine; kind of hard to believe how good they make it look.
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« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2010, 01:22:12 AM »

ANNOUNCED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!  SKYRIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[edit] the teaser shown.  11-11-11!!!!!!!!!!!1!
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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2010, 08:47:23 AM »

I'll wait for reviews. icon_razz
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2010, 10:43:14 AM »

I mainly want to know if they learned anything from making Fallout 3. Hope they ditch the skill up through use mechanic, which never really worked.
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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2010, 02:48:05 PM »

I wonder if Hetz will resurface icon_biggrin
I love me some dragons, and dragon killing, allthough I'm sure some will find that a bit stale. Skill advancement through reps is not ideal but not a deal breaker if it returns. Cookie cutter dungeons not ideal, but not a deal breaker either. Auto leveling of enemies would be a no go for me. Now that they should start dribbling out info for the game in the comming months it will be interesting to see if/how they address that.
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« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2010, 05:49:45 PM »

Ohh, and Oblvion had pretty bad loot drops, or loot at the end of a dungeon or whatever. I know ES is not exactly that kind of game and I know that balancing that kind of stuff must be a complete nightmare but if I find some creepy out of the way dungeon and work hard and clear it out it would be nice to get some shiny cool thing for it. Sounds like I hated Oblivion yet I played for over 100 hrs.
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« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2010, 05:55:15 PM »

O wonder if I'll be able to finish Skyrim at level 5 icon_lol
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« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2010, 08:53:43 AM »

brand new engine to be used.
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« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2010, 02:07:00 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on December 13, 2010, 08:53:43 AM

brand new engine to be used.

Woot.

They've reached the limits of what the old engine can do quite a while ago, IMHO. Of course, modders went FAR beyond what the devs ever expected (and made the game look a shit-ton nicer in the process, too, but that's another argument).
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« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2010, 04:00:35 PM »

Will the NPC's still lok really creepy?  That's the least of my issues but I wonder. Darn it, despite my doubts I'm starting to get excited for this. Massive RPG's are so like crack to me.
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« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2010, 04:51:34 PM »

Can't wait for this title!  eek
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« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2010, 06:09:20 PM »

Skyrim will be the cover story in the February issue of Game Informer.
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« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2010, 07:03:55 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on December 13, 2010, 02:07:00 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on December 13, 2010, 08:53:43 AM

brand new engine to be used.

Woot.

They've reached the limits of what the old engine can do quite a while ago, IMHO. Of course, modders went FAR beyond what the devs ever expected (and made the game look a shit-ton nicer in the process, too, but that's another argument).

They are being kinda vauge about the "new engine." Not really clear if it is new from the ground up of they have just modified Gambreyo so much that at this point they can call it their own. I'm sure details will start to dribble out. Please no leveling of enemies with you is all I ask for.
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« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2010, 01:02:54 AM »

Game Informer has an elder Scrolls retrospective at the end of the latest issue that I got today.  Coincidence?
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« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2010, 04:32:28 AM »

Quote from: Greg Wak on December 13, 2010, 07:03:55 PM

Quote from: Destructor on December 13, 2010, 02:07:00 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on December 13, 2010, 08:53:43 AM

brand new engine to be used.

Woot.

They've reached the limits of what the old engine can do quite a while ago, IMHO. Of course, modders went FAR beyond what the devs ever expected (and made the game look a shit-ton nicer in the process, too, but that's another argument).

They are being kinda vauge about the "new engine." Not really clear if it is new from the ground up of they have just modified Gambreyo so much that at this point they can call it their own. I'm sure details will start to dribble out. Please no leveling of enemies with you is all I ask for.

Then it isn't new, if it was they'd be bragging.
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« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2010, 05:11:35 PM »

I wonder if they'll have save anywhere or if it'll be checkpoint only.....


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« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2010, 07:10:42 PM »

Even with their flaws, the release of a new Elder Scrolls game is always an event for me.  I still remember how in awe I was of Morrowind when I started it up on release day. Instead of going to quest giver 1 to get the story started, I just went off on a random direction and explored for two days.  It was an entirely new crpg experience for me. 
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« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2011, 07:30:04 PM »

GameInformer has revealed the issue's cover art and a puzzle to go with it.  Subscribers should be receiving their copies soon, so we should start hearing details.
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« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2011, 08:41:19 PM »

awesome cover!
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« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2011, 09:14:04 AM »

translation of the back of the cover:

Spoiler for Hiden:
Dragonborn Dragonborn
By his honor is sworn
To keep evil forever at bay
And the fiercest foes rout
When they hear triumph’s shout
Dragonborn for hunger blessing we pray

And the scrolls have fortold
Of black wings in the cold
That when brothers wage war come unfurled
Alduin, bane of kings
Ancient shadow unbound
With a hunger to swallow the world
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« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2011, 04:10:29 AM »

NeoGAF has a summary of the information from Game Informer.  Most of it sounds good, but this part worries me -
Quote
"The game eventually logs a huge storehouse of knowledge about how you've played, and subsequently tailors content to your capabilities and experiences. Entering a city, a young woman might approach you and beg you to save her daughter from kidnappers. The game will look at the nearby dungeons you've explored, automatically set the mission in a place you've never visited, and designate opponents that are appropriately matched to your strengths and weaknesses."

That sounds good in theory, but it could be an absolute nightmare.  I thought Oblivion did a terrible job of scaling enemies to your abilities.  For me, every enemy was either way too easy or way too hard, and I played a pretty standard fighter/mage character.  I really hope they get it right this time.
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« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2011, 04:14:27 AM »

Quote from: EddieA on January 08, 2011, 04:10:29 AM

NeoGAF has a summary of the information from Game Informer.  Most of it sounds good, but this part worries me -
Quote
"The game eventually logs a huge storehouse of knowledge about how you've played, and subsequently tailors content to your capabilities and experiences. Entering a city, a young woman might approach you and beg you to save her daughter from kidnappers. The game will look at the nearby dungeons you've explored, automatically set the mission in a place you've never visited, and designate opponents that are appropriately matched to your strengths and weaknesses."

That sounds good in theory, but it could be an absolute nightmare.  I thought Oblivion did a terrible job of scaling enemies to your abilities.  For me, every enemy was either way too easy or way too hard, and I played a pretty standard fighter/mage character.  I really hope they get it right this time.

yeah, when you can beat the main storyline at barely level 5 you can tell they tweaked it a bit poorly.
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« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2011, 04:22:36 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on January 08, 2011, 04:14:27 AM

Quote from: EddieA on January 08, 2011, 04:10:29 AM

NeoGAF has a summary of the information from Game Informer.  Most of it sounds good, but this part worries me -
Quote
"The game eventually logs a huge storehouse of knowledge about how you've played, and subsequently tailors content to your capabilities and experiences. Entering a city, a young woman might approach you and beg you to save her daughter from kidnappers. The game will look at the nearby dungeons you've explored, automatically set the mission in a place you've never visited, and designate opponents that are appropriately matched to your strengths and weaknesses."

That sounds good in theory, but it could be an absolute nightmare.  I thought Oblivion did a terrible job of scaling enemies to your abilities.  For me, every enemy was either way too easy or way too hard, and I played a pretty standard fighter/mage character.  I really hope they get it right this time.

yeah, when you can beat the main storyline at barely level 5 you can tell they tweaked it a bit poorly.
that sounds an awful lot like mob scaling to me.  icon_frown
i don't mind the idea in theory either, but it isn't as easily done if they set the enemies at static levels.  you would end up with quests you are way too weak to finish or too strong and no decent reason to finish it as the rewards will be useless.

beth, please stick to the model that gothic used.
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« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2011, 09:52:27 AM »

Quote from: EddieA on January 08, 2011, 04:10:29 AM

NeoGAF has a summary of the information from Game Informer.  Most of it sounds good, but this part worries me -
Quote
"The game eventually logs a huge storehouse of knowledge about how you've played, and subsequently tailors content to your capabilities and experiences. Entering a city, a young woman might approach you and beg you to save her daughter from kidnappers. The game will look at the nearby dungeons you've explored, automatically set the mission in a place you've never visited, and designate opponents that are appropriately matched to your strengths and weaknesses."

That sounds good in theory, but it could be an absolute nightmare.  I thought Oblivion did a terrible job of scaling enemies to your abilities.  For me, every enemy was either way too easy or way too hard, and I played a pretty standard fighter/mage character.  I really hope they get it right this time.

Wow.  No lessons learned from Oblivion then.  It sounds great in theory but I simply do not trust Bethesda to implement it properly.

Actually, no, it doesn't sound great in theory at all.  Look, if I'm playing a pure fighter class for example, and I'm on a quest where I come across a locked chest that I have to open, I want that to be a problem I have to solve.  What do I do - try and find the key, learn how to pick locks, acquire some powerful lock-busting spell from somewhere?  That's good RPGing to me.  But the above system makes it sound like I'll be able to just breeze through any situation the game presents.

I'll have to wait and see how it plays out before I can really judge of course, but I'm not hopeful at all.
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« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2011, 11:49:11 AM »

It sounds absolutely horrible, and like a textbook example of why you shouldn't implement level scaling. If quests are always custom-tailored to my abilities, why should I bother leveling up at all?

Edit: I'm curious. The article says that level scaling is coming back. Did anyone actually like the level scaling in Oblivion? Anyone? I don't understand why they implement a feature that leads to so much bad press?

Double edit: "Scaling is similar to what we had in Fallout 3" is the latest from Bethesda about this. I thought the scaling in Fallout 3 was just about as bad as the one in Oblivion. Moving through the wilderness in the starting area was a completely different experience at high levels than at low levels, which makes no sense whatsoever and just leads to frustrations as leveling feels pointless. Can't they take a cue from Fallout: New Vegas, which did things so well that people can't even tell if level scaling was involved?
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« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2011, 03:04:18 PM »

Looks like if all this scaling stuff pans out I won't be getting this. it just sucks all the fun and tension and satisfaction out of the game for me. I think having static placement of enemies and quests, some easy, some hard some complete ball busters, with appropriate rewards, with maybe some little clues here and there about which areas are which. Makes exploring so much more fun. I can't believe they Bethesda doesn't think that's a better way. Do the majority of their players just get frustrated if they get an area they can't beat and quit the game? Doing it this way would even be an easier game to build as I imagine programing scaling on the fly to be tough.
I'm finishing up DD2. When I first entered one of those flying fortresses I got my ass handed to me repeatedly. Went off and did other things, leveled up some, cranked some skills up, got some new trinkets, went back and exacted my revenge. Very satisfying. None of that can happen in a scaling game.
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« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2011, 06:53:06 PM »

Quote from: EddieA on January 08, 2011, 04:10:29 AM

NeoGAF has a summary of the information from Game Informer.  Most of it sounds good, but this part worries me -

some other things that jumped out:

200 years after Oblivion:  for some reason I thought they were closer to each other timewise.

Two handed combat sounds cool, weapon in one hand spell in other.

18 skills, down from 21 on Oblivion, and 27 on Morrowind:  Mysticism is one of them gone, I wonder what else got the axe.


a bit more on Tilt's scaling mention:
Quote
On level scaling from the Senior Community Manager:

Originally Posted by gstaff:
Scaling is similar to what we had in Fallout 3. See the comment I put in our official forums
Quote:
Since people are asking, wanted to briefly touch on level scaling. All our games have had some amount of randomness/levelling based on player level. Skyrim's is similar to Fallout 3's, not Oblivion's.

oh joy.  hopefully the mod community will make fixing that a big priority.
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« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2011, 07:19:38 PM »

Soon the only skills we'll have left in TES games will be "hitting stuff" and "fireball".
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« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2011, 08:21:55 PM »

Gah. Level scaling sucks. One of the best parts of an RPG is becoming more powerful over time and coming back to kick ass on monsters that destroyed you early in the game.

And a lot of those "features" listed at the NeoGaf site are either pointless or just silly. Like this:

Quote
Inheritence: When you kill a shopkeeper, his/her family member will inherit the shop and will be angry about you, but stil give you missions.

Ah - so I can kill someone's family member and they won't like me but not enough from dealing with me? In who's mind does that make any sense? At the very least have them refuse to deal with you.
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« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2011, 08:22:51 PM »

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on January 09, 2011, 08:21:55 PM

Gah. Level scaling sucks. One of the best parts of an RPG is becoming more powerful over time and coming back to kick ass on monsters that destroyed you early in the game.

And a lot of those "features" listed at the NeoGaf site are either pointless or just silly. Like this:

Quote
Inheritence: When you kill a shopkeeper, his/her family member will inherit the shop and will be angry about you, but stil give you missions.

Ah - so I can kill someone's family member and they won't like me but not enough from dealing with me? In who's mind does that make any sense? At the very least have them refuse to deal with you.

at least they got beards!
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« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2011, 10:34:18 PM »

Basically, isnt the features all they said was gonna be in Oblivion but never really worked? THe Radiant AI was pointless and boring, and didn't bring anything new to the genre, and the level scaling...awful - and it seems like they know it since they point it its not like in Oblivion. Frankly, I don't trust them with the system. It never really worked that well in any game.

The inheritance thing is horrible as well, although I understand why they do it. They want to give you complete freedom, but in the end, it doesnt matter, since if you kill a shopkeeper, another will just take over, and you can now practice your speechskills on them to get better prices. Meh.

When all that is said, I'll buy the game of course, but I *hope* someday they'll stop with the level scaling since they are probably the last big openworld fantasy game makers and the series has been really fun for various reasons.
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« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2011, 11:56:07 PM »

Last big western dev perhaps. Don't count out the Germans though. As log as they keep making Risen and similar gothic style games, we'll be ok. And there is still Two worlds 2 to look forward to.

I know how you feel about the western devs though. Now that bioware is going all action-y with DA2 and lionhead is determined to set define the absolute bare minimums of what makes an rpg, bethsoft is pretty much it over here.

That whole inheritence deal is about as relevant to the end game as the whole "npc improving her archery skills" bit was to oblivion. They migt as well show us how cool the chains look in the opening dungeon sequence.
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« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2011, 03:57:41 AM »

I've been known to have some minor interest in the Elder Scrolls games, so I'm sure I'll get it.  I won't be disappointed, either, because I have certain expectations from their games:  They will give us an engine and an outline for a game which the community will turn into dozens of distinct masterpieces.
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« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2011, 05:32:21 AM »

Will they? I haven't heard anything about modding yet, and this is a new engine.
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« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2011, 05:42:21 AM »

another thing I saw that may have been mis-read:  they say you get one perk per level, but then they also say there are 50 levels.  so either they have to come up with an insane number of perks or everyone is going to be the same at 50?
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« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2011, 07:07:17 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on January 10, 2011, 05:42:21 AM

another thing I saw that may have been mis-read:  they say you get one perk per level, but then they also say there are 50 levels.  so either they have to come up with an insane number of perks or everyone is going to be the same at 50?

Considering there are no classes any more and skills advance as they're being used, I suspect there will be only minor differences between characters in different playthroughs anyway.
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« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2011, 01:34:37 PM »

I'll give it all a chance. Honestly sounds like they're striking a balance between what's worked before and some of what they learned from FO3. Not to mention the new engine will mix things up.

Of course, I'm getting it for the PC, so unless they're changing that policy too, there should be plenty of mods to switch things up.
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