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Author Topic: The 10 RPG Commandments  (Read 1138 times)
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Gratch
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« on: October 26, 2009, 02:19:01 PM »

Got thinking about this more after I made this post yesterday, and came up with my 10 Commandments of RPG's.

The 10 RPG Commandments

1.   Thou shalt have pauseable AND skippable cutscenes
2.   If thou dost not provide the ability to save anywhere, thou shalt put thine save points no more than 30 minutes apart.
3.   Thou shalt provide maps of thine areas.
4.   Thou shalt provide a clear explanation to players of where they are to go next, preferably in some sort of in-game journal or quest tracker.
5.   Thou shalt always provide save points before and after difficult boss battles.
6.   If thou hast shitty voice acting, thou shalt provide an option to turn it off.  Also, thou shalt not overuse "...", lest thee be smited by the RPG Gods.  (::Star Ocean 2 Second Evolution goes up in a puff of smoke:: )
7.   Thou shalt have a reasonable enemy encounter rate.  (::SMT: Digital Devil Saga goes up in a puff of smoke:: )
8.   Thou shalt not expect players to hold onto useless items for 40 hours, then require said useless item to create uber-weapons/armor/skills.  Especially when thou hast limited inventory slots.
9.   Thou shalt provide an adequate explanation or tutorial on thine skill, ability, crafting, or magic system either in-game or in thine manual.
10.   Thou shalt not require players to constantly backtrack through previously cleared areas solely in an effort to lengthen the playtime of thine game.

There must be more...which ones am I missing?
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2009, 02:46:27 PM »

Elevator rides should take no more than 2 or 3 seconds.
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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2009, 03:08:07 PM »

Those are great Gratch.  In fact for #6 I'd give them 1 or 2 "..."'s and that's it.  Any more and I lose interest quickly.
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« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2009, 03:17:55 PM »

Quote from: warning on October 26, 2009, 03:08:07 PM

Those are great Gratch.  In fact for #6 I'd give them 1 or 2 "..."'s and that's it.  Any more and I lose interest quickly.

yeah, not sure what i could add to that list... iow:

...
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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2009, 03:23:03 PM »

All I can think of is:

"All thine base are belong to us" ...
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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2009, 04:16:51 PM »

I don't know if this one is widespread enough any more to warrant inclusion, but here goes:

"Thine final boss shall be a worthy foe, but not require the player to grind in order to vanquish him."

I can remember a couple of RPGs where I had to go back and grind XP for several hours at the end of the game just so I take out the disproportionately tough final baddie.   

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« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2009, 04:17:42 PM »

Funny thing is, Star Ocean:  TLH breaks at least 6 of those, and I'm still liking it so far.  I'll have to see how that holds up after 12 hours instead of 6 though.
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« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2009, 04:38:58 PM »

You forgot to add optional subtitles for cut scenes and in game.  If the voice acting is really bad, it is hard to understand what they are saying.

The 30 minutes between save points rule is too long.  I propose 15 minutes.  If you don't understand why, try gaming with young kids in the house.
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« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2009, 04:42:01 PM »

Thou shall not be able to win 75% of the battles by just pressing X over and over.
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Gratch
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« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2009, 04:58:36 PM »

Quote from: KC on October 26, 2009, 04:38:58 PM

You forgot to add optional subtitles for cut scenes and in game.  If the voice acting is really bad, it is hard to understand what they are saying.

The 30 minutes between save points rule is too long.  I propose 15 minutes.  If you don't understand why, try gaming with young kids in the house.

LOL.  I've got a youngun, so I originally had 15 minutes but thought that might be too unreasonable.  Glad I'm not the only one to think that way.  smile
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« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2009, 09:03:43 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on October 26, 2009, 04:42:01 PM

Thou shall not be able to win 75% of the battles by just pressing X over and over.

That should be #1. Really easy RPGs suck. In Suikoden I would automate 90% of the battles. What is the point of even having battles like that?



Also, "..." and  "!" should should be stricken from RPG vocabualry.


« Last Edit: October 26, 2009, 09:09:51 PM by Dante Rising » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2009, 09:09:20 PM »

Quote from: Dante Rising on October 26, 2009, 09:03:43 PM

Also, "..." and  "!" should should be stricken from RPG vocabualry.

Thank the Japanese.

Now that I think about it, the Japanese should be stricken from the list of countries who are allowed to make RPGs. The only ones they've made that have managed to catch my interest are the Mario ones, and I could live without those.

...

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« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2009, 09:10:07 PM »


Vash the Heroic Emo Protagonist: "Daisy, I've traveled across an ocean and overthrown the enemy overlord so that we may be together forever!"

Daisy the Dainty: "..."

Vash the Heroic Emo Protagonist: "I see....well, at least give me a taste of that fine elven ass for an evening..."

Daisy the Dainty: "!"
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« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2009, 02:22:57 AM »

Nice post. Your list comprises what I mostly complain about.
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« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2009, 12:51:19 PM »

Thou shalt either have real voice over to match the text on screen or no voice-like noises at all.

I'm thinking of Okami, where I couldn't stand to play the game only because of the horrid noises that were supposed to be voices.
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« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2009, 02:55:21 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on October 26, 2009, 02:19:01 PM

4.   Thou shalt provide a clear explanation to players of where they are to go next, preferably in some sort of in-game journal or quest tracker.

I don't necessarily agree with this one as to me it equates to too much hand-holding and cuts out on some of the fun of exploration. I do agree that there needs to be some type of quest tracker if there are a multitude of quests you might have at once.
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Gratch
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« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2009, 03:27:25 PM »

Quote from: Toe on October 27, 2009, 02:55:21 PM

Quote from: Gratch on October 26, 2009, 02:19:01 PM

4.   Thou shalt provide a clear explanation to players of where they are to go next, preferably in some sort of in-game journal or quest tracker.

I don't necessarily agree with this one as to me it equates to too much hand-holding and cuts out on some of the fun of exploration. I do agree that there needs to be some type of quest tracker if there are a multitude of quests you might have at once.

Yeah. there's definitely a fine line to walk there, and it's also very dependent on the game.  In some of the more "open-world" RPG's, that sort of exploration can be fun. However, when I'm stuck wandering around for hours without having a clue how to advance the story or get to the next area, it frustrates the hell out of me.  I see this problem come up a lot more in JRPGs than Western RPGs.
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« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2009, 03:33:07 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on October 27, 2009, 03:27:25 PM

Quote from: Toe on October 27, 2009, 02:55:21 PM

Quote from: Gratch on October 26, 2009, 02:19:01 PM

4.   Thou shalt provide a clear explanation to players of where they are to go next, preferably in some sort of in-game journal or quest tracker.

I don't necessarily agree with this one as to me it equates to too much hand-holding and cuts out on some of the fun of exploration. I do agree that there needs to be some type of quest tracker if there are a multitude of quests you might have at once.

Yeah. there's definitely a fine line to walk there, and it's also very dependent on the game.  In some of the more "open-world" RPG's, that sort of exploration can be fun. However, when I'm stuck wandering around for hours without having a clue how to advance the story or get to the next area, it frustrates the hell out of me.  I see this problem come up a lot more in JRPGs than Western RPGs.

Yes!  Like, "You didn't talk to the random NPC in town that you already talked to, so you can't progress."  That's a frustrating one.
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« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2009, 03:34:08 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on October 27, 2009, 03:27:25 PM

Quote from: Toe on October 27, 2009, 02:55:21 PM

Quote from: Gratch on October 26, 2009, 02:19:01 PM

4.   Thou shalt provide a clear explanation to players of where they are to go next, preferably in some sort of in-game journal or quest tracker.

I don't necessarily agree with this one as to me it equates to too much hand-holding and cuts out on some of the fun of exploration. I do agree that there needs to be some type of quest tracker if there are a multitude of quests you might have at once.

Yeah. there's definitely a fine line to walk there, and it's also very dependent on the game.  In some of the more "open-world" RPG's, that sort of exploration can be fun. However, when I'm stuck wandering around for hours without having a clue how to advance the story or get to the next area, it frustrates the hell out of me.  I see this problem come up a lot more in JRPGs than Western RPGs.

This is problem for those of us who jump from game to game, especially with DS games that I only play once in a while. I think it was DQIV that I just gave up on because after a week or two I came back to the game and had no idea what I was supposed to do and could find no hint in the game of what my next goal was, never mind where to go.
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« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2009, 03:37:56 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on October 26, 2009, 09:09:20 PM

Quote from: Dante Rising on October 26, 2009, 09:03:43 PM

Also, "..." and  "!" should should be stricken from RPG vocabualry.

Thank the Japanese.

Now that I think about it, the Japanese should be stricken from the list of countries who are allowed to make RPGs. The only ones they've made that have managed to catch my interest are the Mario ones, and I could live without those.

...

icon_razz
You know, if I never had to deal with another japanese RPG story, I could die unfrustrated.  Please, just give us those incredible game systems -- no characters, no dialogue, no story, no backstory, to wit:

Thy story, backstory, characterizations and dialogue shall be comprehensible and uncringeworthy while appealing to an "international" audience.
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« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2009, 03:56:27 PM »

Quote from: Hotfreak on October 27, 2009, 03:37:56 PM

Quote from: TiLT on October 26, 2009, 09:09:20 PM

Quote from: Dante Rising on October 26, 2009, 09:03:43 PM

Also, "..." and  "!" should should be stricken from RPG vocabualry.

Thank the Japanese.

Now that I think about it, the Japanese should be stricken from the list of countries who are allowed to make RPGs. The only ones they've made that have managed to catch my interest are the Mario ones, and I could live without those.

...

icon_razz
You know, if I never had to deal with another japanese RPG story, I could die unfrustrated.  Please, just give us those incredible game systems -- no characters, no dialogue, no story, no backstory, to wit:

Thy story, backstory, characterizations and dialogue shall be comprehensible and uncringeworthy while appealing to an "international" audience.

Go play Final Fantasy Tactics:  War of the Lions and get back to me on that.  smile
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« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2009, 04:09:15 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on October 27, 2009, 03:56:27 PM

Quote from: Hotfreak on October 27, 2009, 03:37:56 PM

Quote from: TiLT on October 26, 2009, 09:09:20 PM

Quote from: Dante Rising on October 26, 2009, 09:03:43 PM

Also, "..." and  "!" should should be stricken from RPG vocabualry.

Thank the Japanese.

Now that I think about it, the Japanese should be stricken from the list of countries who are allowed to make RPGs. The only ones they've made that have managed to catch my interest are the Mario ones, and I could live without those.

...

icon_razz
You know, if I never had to deal with another japanese RPG story, I could die unfrustrated.  Please, just give us those incredible game systems -- no characters, no dialogue, no story, no backstory, to wit:

Thy story, backstory, characterizations and dialogue shall be comprehensible and uncringeworthy while appealing to an "international" audience.

Go play Final Fantasy Tactics:  War of the Lions and get back to me on that.  smile

Actually I have played that one.  And I have no idea what was going on for most of it.  The gameplay kept me playing, certainly not the story.

**Edit.  I played the PS1 version.  If the PSP version improved the story and made it comprehensible then I apologize.
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« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2009, 04:12:31 PM »

Quote from: Dante Rising on October 26, 2009, 09:03:43 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on October 26, 2009, 04:42:01 PM

Thou shall not be able to win 75% of the battles by just pressing X over and over.

That should be #1. Really easy RPGs suck. In Suikoden I would automate 90% of the battles. What is the point of even having battles like that?


but don't you use only one button when fighting in a Final Fantasy game?
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« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2009, 04:14:55 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on October 27, 2009, 04:09:15 PM

Quote from: Gratch on October 27, 2009, 03:56:27 PM

Quote from: Hotfreak on October 27, 2009, 03:37:56 PM

Quote from: TiLT on October 26, 2009, 09:09:20 PM

Quote from: Dante Rising on October 26, 2009, 09:03:43 PM

Also, "..." and  "!" should should be stricken from RPG vocabualry.

Thank the Japanese.

Now that I think about it, the Japanese should be stricken from the list of countries who are allowed to make RPGs. The only ones they've made that have managed to catch my interest are the Mario ones, and I could live without those.

...

icon_razz
You know, if I never had to deal with another japanese RPG story, I could die unfrustrated.  Please, just give us those incredible game systems -- no characters, no dialogue, no story, no backstory, to wit:

Thy story, backstory, characterizations and dialogue shall be comprehensible and uncringeworthy while appealing to an "international" audience.

Go play Final Fantasy Tactics:  War of the Lions and get back to me on that.  smile

Actually I have played that one.  And I have no idea what was going on for most of it.  The gameplay kept me playing, certainly not the story.

**Edit.  I played the PS1 version.  If the PSP version improved the story and made it comprehensible then I apologize.

Yeah. the translation for the original FF Tactics on PS1 was a complete mess.  However, they completely overhauled it for the PSP version, and made it the best story I've ever seen in a game this side of Planscape: Torment.
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« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2009, 06:18:06 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on October 27, 2009, 04:12:31 PM

Quote from: Dante Rising on October 26, 2009, 09:03:43 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on October 26, 2009, 04:42:01 PM

Thou shall not be able to win 75% of the battles by just pressing X over and over.
That should be #1. Really easy RPGs suck. In Suikoden I would automate 90% of the battles. What is the point of even having battles like that?
but don't you use only one button when fighting in a Final Fantasy game?

I think he means pushing Fight (or whatever the default method of attack is) over and over instead of trying to be more tactical.
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