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Author Topic: Tenchu rated higher than Ninja Gaiden  (Read 3107 times)
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Eco-Logic
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« on: June 02, 2004, 02:09:28 PM »

At Gaming Age.

Tell me that isn't a joke...

Ninja Gaiden is in a completely different league than the mess that is Tenchu.
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2004, 02:17:14 PM »

I found Tenchu lacking compared to Ninja Gaiden.  You have to remember that Gaming Age gave NG a low score before anyone else...smacks of publicity stunt.
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2004, 02:26:44 PM »

Paul Bryant is one of the worst reviewers I've ever read.  I can't think of the other game he was completely wrong about, but I do remember Voodoo Vince getting a C from him.  I thought that was rather rough because it was a pretty good game and deserved to be in the 80s in my opinion.

Anyway, Bryant has been completely wrong about games before.  He didn't review Tenchu, so it's hard to compare the scores.  I've played both Ninja Gaiden and Tenchu and I'd say Ninja Gaiden, even though it's far more difficult, is the far better game.
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2004, 02:34:22 PM »

Yea, I agree on Paul.

Anyway, everyone has their own opinions and I'm fine with that, however, if I were the Gaming Age owner I would have a problem with Tenchu receiving a higher score than Ninja Gaiden.  Heck, Voodoo Vince should have a higher score than Tenchu.
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« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2004, 02:31:10 PM »

I'm sure I'm one of the very few that will say this, but I actually agree with Tenchu receiving the higher rating.  Admittedly, I'm a stealth junkie, but I enjoyed Tenchu much more that NG.  NG was awfully pretty, but I thought the combat system and gameplay were pretty poor.  Once I got past the "Wow, look at that" factor, I lost interest pretty quick.  OTOH, I've really enjoyed Tenchu's stealth based gameplay.  Yeah, the AI sucks and the camera could use some work (although it's not bad once you figure out how to use it), but overall it was a much better "ninja" experience.
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« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2004, 05:06:36 PM »

It took me about an hour to realize that the gameplay in NG was tremendously shallow. It is a shame, considering how good it looks.
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aledromo
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« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2004, 05:44:41 PM »

I have to disagree.  The combat system alone in Ninja Gaiden is as deep as the player wants it to be.  Some might even say it's too deep, when given to consider alternate weaponry options.  I played the hell out of that game (before it broke my wrists) and never stopped coming up with new ways to approach enemies.

From what I played of Tenchu, there was only one way to approach enemies: Slowly.  That got old for me pretty quickly, and didn't even really look pretty in the meantime.  Still, to each their own.  Still, with gameplay left as a matter of preference I can't help but feel that superior production values should have given NG the nod.  I'm sure I'll get flamed for that.
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EngineNo9
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« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2004, 06:28:28 PM »

I fall into the category of loving Tenchu and not really diggin Ninja Gaiden at all.  I feel Tenchu could have really done some things better, but it's classic stealth gameplay and total ninja style were awesome to me.  

I was sick of Ninja Gaiden before I even finished the the demo.  After all the raving I went back to see if maybe I had missed something but after a few more turns I just decided it was not my game at all.  

And as much as the camera sucked in Tenchu, I didn't mind it nearly as much as NGs.  Probably because most of your time in a stealth game is creeping along waiting to get the perfect drop on somebody and part of that is looking around constantly.
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2004, 12:51:56 AM »

Ninja Gaiden isn't a ninja simulator; it's the best sidescrolling-to-3d-action conversion I've played in a looooong time. It would be like trying to compare Starfox (a 3D version of ye olde Gradius) with something like Wing Commander Privateer. They have the "space combat" in common, and it pretty much stops there. (I've loved both, and I'm doing WCP a grave injustice by putting it in the Tenchu side of this discussion)

As far as overall measurement in scoring goes; there is no comparison to the presentation, sound, controls and polish. Ninja Gaiden has shown what happens when a developer is given license to make the game they wanted to make, and not had to compromise. It's taking the DOA fighting engine (look at the combo presentations; it's given to you ingame) and applying it to a genre that generally has "A" for Attack, "B" for jump. The camera is VERY responsive; if it's at the wrong angle you can fix it with a button press. There is no sluggish or wildly obtuse procedure to look where you want to. It's too bad the camera didn't know which way you wanted to be looking automagically, but it's still great as-is.

I'll grant you this, NG doesn't provide the ninja experience that Tenchu does with all the sneaking and silent killing, but that wasn't it's aim. It was shooting for "ninja badass vs. the world".

Tenchu 3, IMHO, doesn't do the ninja experience justice either. It felt like a poorly repackaged Thief, or a shoddy mockup of Splinter Cell. Now, that's not to say I didn't like the Tenchu franchise; I *loved* Tenchu for the PS1. This one felt more like I was on rails. I didn't play very far in to it, mind you, as the "just another port" graphics pasted on a 51" widescreen TV was almost nauseating.

Let's have a peek, shall we?



VS.



Yeah, I was wondering... is her left hand holding the dagger behind the head of the guy against the wall behind her on the right side? Oh, and the texture for the brick wall would be a perfect addition to the Windows 3d maze screensaver.

 So if you were hung up on sneaking around and killing people, check out any number of grade "A" games out there that let you do it. Splinter Cell 1 & 2, Thief DS, the upcoming Ghost, etc ...

If you love ninja games of all types, Ninja Gaiden is the better game, albiet less "realistic". If you need your ninja sim fix and you can't go without, go see Tenchu. Just make sure you're wearing beer-goggles.  :wink:

And yes, those are biggest damned 2 pennies I could find.  Cool

[edited for grammar ]
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EngineNo9
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« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2004, 01:39:29 PM »

Quote from: "Purge"

The camera is VERY responsive; if it's at the wrong angle you can fix it with a button press. There is no sluggish or wildly obtuse procedure to look where you want to. It's too bad the camera didn't know which way you wanted to be looking automagically, but it's still great as-is.


That was exactly my problem with the camera in Ninja Gaiden.  Why the hell couldn't they at least have give me control over it with the right analog stick?  That was a retarded completely decision.

I understand they used the "Ninja" for name recognition, but considering ninja were assassins, infiltrators and spies it doesn't seem to be really fitting for that style of gameplay.  Heck, the same could be said for I-Ninja, too, but I enjoyed that one as a platformer with some action elements so I'll let it pass.  :wink:

As I've said before, Tenchu had it's fair share of problems, not the least of which were the horribly outdated graphics, but it was just more fun for me and more of what I wanted out of a ninja game.  Nobody is argueing that Tenchu had much better graphics, so I'm not sure what the point of your screenshot comparison was.  

Everybody enjoys different types of gameplay and has different expectations and preferences so it goes without saying that two people reviewing two different games will give them different scores.  Maybe somebody will get the best of all worlds soon, but for now why don't we just enjoy the games we like and let others do the same.  Let it go.
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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2004, 01:51:16 PM »

Quote from: "EngineNo9"
I understand they used the "Ninja" for name recognition

Please tell me that you know Ninja Gaiden is an on-going series that started in the arcade, then the NES.  We waited 13 years for the new one.  They don't use the "Ninja" for name recognition, it's an on-going franchise.
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EngineNo9
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« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2004, 09:14:04 PM »

No crap, slylock.  The ongoing franchise is exactly what I was referring to in that name recognition statement.  What I meant was if they had called it something more suitable, like "Super-Samurai Magician Gaiden" it may not have sold as many copies as using the Ninja Gaiden name.

I also realize that the original NG games were action games but that was in the era well before 3D or any real stealth gameplay (ignoring the very basic "stealth" element of things the original Castle Wolfenstein...and no, not the one id developed that used the name while keeping no stealth elements).
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2004, 02:41:26 PM »

slylock, lol.
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« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2004, 07:43:04 PM »

Quote from: "EngineNo9"
Quote from: "Purge"

The camera is VERY responsive; if it's at the wrong angle you can fix it with a button press. There is no sluggish or wildly obtuse procedure to look where you want to. It's too bad the camera didn't know which way you wanted to be looking automagically, but it's still great as-is.


That was exactly my problem with the camera in Ninja Gaiden.  Why the hell couldn't they at least have give me control over it with the right analog stick?  That was a retarded completely decision.


That was a deliberate decision. The action in the game is too fast to have to 'aim' the camera. And this game has one of the best 'smart' camera's I've ever seen.
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2004, 08:12:56 PM »

Quote from: "The Rocketman"
Quote from: "EngineNo9"
Quote from: "Purge"

The camera is VERY responsive; if it's at the wrong angle you can fix it with a button press. There is no sluggish or wildly obtuse procedure to look where you want to. It's too bad the camera didn't know which way you wanted to be looking automagically, but it's still great as-is.


That was exactly my problem with the camera in Ninja Gaiden.  Why the hell couldn't they at least have give me control over it with the right analog stick?  That was a retarded completely decision.


That was a deliberate decision. The action in the game is too fast to have to 'aim' the camera. And this game has one of the best 'smart' camera's I've ever seen.


I agree.
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« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2004, 08:17:17 PM »

I add my agreement to the above statement.  In fact, I find myself trying to do the same thing in many games since Ninja Gaiden.  Analog rotation seems so slow now.

I do wish they wouldn't focus on you every time you open a door, but I'm willing to write that off as a design decision as well.  Letting you feel the uncertainty of entering a new space.  Whatever.  Can we get a sequel before I'm 50?
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The Rocketman
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« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2004, 07:18:29 PM »

Depends, when do you get 50?
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