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Author Topic: Suikoden 4 ... seeing screenshots, thinking :  (Read 4861 times)
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2004, 01:37:33 PM »

Amazing- I'm playing Vagrant Story for the first time right now and I think its a fantastic game.  Certainly no nostalgia clouding my judgement here.
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2004, 04:29:22 PM »

There's a ton of 2D RPGs for the SNES, Saturn, and PSX that have better art and character design than a lot of today's 3D RPGs. Chrono Trigger (much better looking game than its sequel, Chrono Cross), the Lunars, FF VI and the first Alundra game all have excellent graphics that look just as good today as when they were first released.
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vagabond
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« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2004, 08:47:06 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Amazing- I'm playing Vagrant Story for the first time right now and I think its a fantastic game.  Certainly no nostalgia clouding my judgement here.


I didn't really play very far in it, the jaggy graphics really threw me off of that one. An example of trying to make the image look better by making it more complex and not being able to reproduce it properly. I didn't like the realtime combat either.

I was thinking about the roleplaying game thing. All the old roleplaying games I used to play the characters and party were just names on the screen, they had no lines, certainly no speaking lines and no real part in the game. Those were great at the time. But, after playing games in which the characters take an active part, it is not appealing at all to go back and play one of those from an earlier time. I remember playing Jagged alliance and the characters actually talked a bit for the first time. That was a hoot.  :lol: Although compared to today's games they didn't say much. Sometimes a game just has it. It is hard to describe. I just know it when I see it and I know when I don't see it. When I like a game I usually like it right away and same when I don't like it.
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EddieA
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« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2004, 04:28:11 AM »

IGN has some hands-on impressions of the near-final US version here.
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"Why did the chicken cross the Mobius strip?  To get to the same side."  - The Big Bang Theory
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« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2004, 01:38:20 AM »

Quote from: "EddieA"
IGN has some hands-on impressions of the near-final US version here.


The IGN impressions were much more useful. They actually described the gameplay. Being onboard ship sounds fun and since it seems they kept the character driven gameplay and turnbased combat. I should love it. Will have on day 1.
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mytocles
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« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2004, 06:52:35 PM »

anyone have any new info on Suikoden IV?  i liked the screenshots at EB but the reviews were so-so and probably old.  i have no experience with S-III to compare it to, and am considering asking for a pre-order of IV for Christmas.  i prefer real-time combat, loved morrowind, deus ex, pirates of the caribbean,  plus i've liked stuff like Baldur's Gate, except more from the collecting and leveling than from the camera - i prefer the not-from-above view ...

thanks!
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Mytocles (MY-toe-cleez)

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vagabond
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« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2004, 08:33:09 PM »

The combat is going to be turn based and there is going to be a lot of ship combat apparently. Otherwise I don't know very much. You didn't play Suikoden 3. I call it a character based role playing game. There are 105 characters many of which you can use in combat or use to drive the storyline forward. Versus a game like morrowind or KOTOR in which the main character is vague and basically just an automaton you control and doesn't have much to do with the story.
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mytocles
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« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2004, 08:41:47 PM »

thanks Vagabond!

that helps a lot - i'm not into turn-based much, so S-IV is out.  i just discovered i have a III on a playable demo so i'll give that a try - as soon as i'm done with my last minute online holiday shopping - wouldn't want to wait until the last minute after all!  :wink:
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Mytocles (MY-toe-cleez)

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Calvin
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« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2004, 10:24:08 PM »

Quote from: "vagabond"
The combat is going to be turn based and there is going to be a lot of ship combat apparently. Otherwise I don't know very much. You didn't play Suikoden 3. I call it a character based role playing game. There are 105 characters many of which you can use in combat or use to drive the storyline forward. Versus a game like morrowind or KOTOR in which the main character is vague and basically just an automaton you control and doesn't have much to do with the story.


Yes, because the main character in KOTOR "didn't have much to do with the story."

Wow.
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vagabond
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« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2004, 01:22:14 AM »

[/quote]

Yes, because the main character in KOTOR "didn't have much to do with the story."

Wow.[/quote]

I am talking in comparision there. I also know that games with poorly fleshed out main characters are the norm and not the exception in gaming too. The character just being there while the story takes place doesn't mean the story has to do with the character. I wouldn't even call the one in KOTOR a "character". It is a mobile camera you move around and get a view of the story taking place around you and you participate very slightly. The character had a backstory of being some kind of battle scarred war veteran, but it didn't actually have any impact on her. The whole plot of the story is "stop the sith". Yeah, well why? Just because they are bad guys? That isn't a plot.  In suikoden 3 you had a 3 way war taking place and espionage and revenge and etc etc etc, everybody had a good reason to risk their life in a war. Not just because I got no place else to go which is the prevailing reason in KOTOR. She left the Jedi to fight the Mandalorians but she doesn't hate the mandalorians or think they are evil or anything, she even respects them as soldiers. That is not a good reason to sacrifice everything you believe in. War sounds fun! I'll go! Is only a good plot for a bad movie about a retard.
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EddieA
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« Reply #50 on: December 19, 2004, 08:21:19 AM »

"i prefer real-time combat, loved morrowind, deus ex, pirates of the caribbean, plus i've liked stuff like Baldur's Gate"
From your list, it sounds like you play mostly PC games.  If you haven't played a console RPG, they are very different from their PC counterparts.  In traditional console RPGs (including Suikoden 4), you enter battles by walking around and running into enemies at random.  Your team (up to 4 in Suik. 4) take turns inputting their moves (attack, cast magic, defend, etc), and the enemy does the same.  If you've played them before, I'm sure you know all this, but if not, I'd suggest checking out some of the IGN battle videos to see what they are like.
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« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2004, 08:30:41 AM »

Quote from: "EddieA"
"i prefer real-time combat, loved morrowind, deus ex, pirates of the caribbean, plus i've liked stuff like Baldur's Gate"
From your list, it sounds like you play mostly PC games.  If you haven't played a console RPG, they are very different from their PC counterparts.  In traditional console RPGs (including Suikoden 4), you enter battles by walking around and running into enemies at random.  Your team (up to 4 in Suik. 4) take turns inputting their moves (attack, cast magic, defend, etc), and the enemy does the same.  If you've played them before, I'm sure you know all this, but if not, I'd suggest checking out some of the IGN battle videos to see what they are like.


I wouldn't say PC and console RPG's are what make them different. It's a matter of which games you are talking about. There were plenty of PC RPG's in which you ran into enemies by bumping into them randomly on a PC as well.  Wizardry 8, Arcanum, dungeon siege, divine divinity were all like that and they were all pure PC games. I always wonder how somebody can prefer realtime combat, when I am the exact opposite. Also it is rather short sighted to limit your games to only real time combat. I much much prefer turnbased but there are plenty of games I enjoyed greatly that have realtime. There is good and bad realtime and good and bad turnbased. Morrowind to me had the worst combat of any game ever, yet the game itself was still good enough to play because of all the other factors. Rarely is the combat system alone the only reason a game is good or bad.
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