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Author Topic: Sports games 75% of the market? No consoles w/out sports?  (Read 5460 times)
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Scott
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« on: June 23, 2006, 05:26:14 PM »

I'm having an argument with a well known forum member right now, and the pro-PSP member claims sports titles are 75% of the market.  And goes on to claim that without sports titles, the console market would completley collapse.

Thoughts?  I do think Madden is the top selling game, but I tend to think every other sport's games don't sell nearly as well.  I mean, who the heck is dumb enough to buy a hockey game? smile

Another issue, are driving games considered sports games?  I don't really buy that.  I don't consider Nascar a sport.

Anyway, do sports completely dominate?  Would the industry collapse without Madden?  Is so, then I guess the PSP wins out, as it has the best sports titles, right?
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2006, 05:32:20 PM »

Consoles wouldn't fail without sports... that said it would be a huge hit.  I had many customers who bought nothing but sports titles at my EB.  They bought Madden every year, and many upgraded to a PS2 immediatly because of the huge difference in Madden between PS1 and PS2 at launch.  I would consider racing to be a sport game.  Despite my own personal feelings about Nascar, it is a sport.

It also depends on the market.  In my opinion the focus of the average handheld owner when it comes to games is going to be different from a console owner.  Most people look to the DS for fun, innovative gaming.  In my opinion sports in general don't translate well to the handheld systems, with the small screens and usually simplified controls.  While there are some good sports games on handhelds it isn't the focus.
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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2006, 06:32:23 PM »

Aren't year-end sales figures typically available?  If so, then it would be pretty easy to determine if sports titles are truly 75% of the market.
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Devil
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2006, 07:15:20 PM »

I said it and I'm standing by it - Until someone proves me wrong!!
 biggrin

Show me the top 10 games sold numbers and I say sports make up around 75% of the units sold on that list. I'm talking US sales.

AND racing is a sport - You watch it on TV and it's considered a sport there - if it's a sport there, it's a sport here.
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Doopri
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« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2006, 07:24:30 PM »

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/sportsbusiness/news/story?id=1945691

"Sports video games accounted for more than 20 percent ($1.2 billion) of the $5.8 billion video game market last year, according to the NPD Group, a market tracking firm."

this was for 2004
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Devil
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2006, 07:33:05 PM »

I'm talking about the '05 Top 10 sales.

Give me the top 10 from '05 and units sold from that list.

75% sports!!
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Scott
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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2006, 07:37:08 PM »

Quote
"Sports video games accounted for more than 20 percent ($1.2 billion) of the $5.8 billion video game market last year, according to the NPD Group, a market tracking firm."


And Madden was probably $1.1 billion of that.  I bet if there was a new GTA every year, it'd sell almost as well.  All the new GTA would have to do is add one new car, change the paint job on a couple grass textures, and it'd be as new as the Maddens!

Quote
AND racing is a sport - You watch it on TV and it's considered a sport there - if it's a sport there, it's a sport here.


Just because TV says something doesn't make it so, otherwise Dr. Phil would rule the world!
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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2006, 07:40:40 PM »

If sports games are 75% of videogame sales then why is our dedicated sports forum practically dead?  Nobody ever posts in there.  The last post is from a week ago???  It is depressing.  I say just drop that forum and we can post about sports games in the console/pc gaming forums.
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Doopri
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2006, 07:44:47 PM »

i couldnt find top ten by sales but from some of the monthly ones ive seen yea youre probably right about the top 10 being 75% sports, maybe a little bit much but i bet its right around 2/3s at least
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Devil
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2006, 07:46:51 PM »

75% of the top 10 and the most important genre in gaming. Nothing comes close!!

As for this place - It's filled with a bunch of geeks and shut-ins who live in their mother's basements and play D&D every night!!

That's why our Sports Forum is lacking!!! You're intimidated!!

Why don't you kids go back to you level 14 Wizards and Mages and leave the money genre to the big boys!!


( :wink: This is all in fun. Please take nothing that I type seriously, as usual  biggrin )
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Scott
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« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2006, 07:49:25 PM »

Quote
i couldnt find top ten by sales but from some of the monthly ones ive seen yea youre probably right about the top 10 being 75% sports, maybe a little bit much but i bet its right around 2/3s at least

The last thing you ever want to do, in this forum, is admit Devil might be right!!!  :twisted:

I'm sure it varies year by year.  Because sports titles are shovelled out every year with nothing more then a roster tweak (for $50 or $60), more legit franchises can not compete in total sales numbers.  There simply isn't a new Gran Turismo every year, nor GTA.

If you look at everything else but football, its a huge difference as well.
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« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2006, 07:49:45 PM »

Here are the Top 10 for last year - Now I need the numbers!

Madden NFL 06 on PS2
Pokemon Emerald on GBA
Gran Turismo 4 on PS2
Madden NFL 06 on Xbox
NCAA Football 06 on PS2
Star Wars Battlefront II on PS2
MVP Baseball 2005 on PS2
Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith on PS2
NBA Live 06 on PS2
Lego Star Wars on PS2.

The Star Wars thing may be even more shocking!
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Devil
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« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2006, 07:51:17 PM »

Quote
I'm sure it varies year by year. Because sports titles are shovelled out every year with nothing more then a roster tweak (for $50 or $60), more legit franchises can not compete in total sales numbers. There simply isn't a new Gran Turismo every year, nor GTA.

If you look at everything else but football, its a huge difference as well.


I see another excuse list coming!!

Give me the number!!
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Scott
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« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2006, 08:01:22 PM »

Quote
The Star Wars thing may be even more shocking!

Yeah, definitely shocking.  At least by and large, the sports games are decent!

Quote
Give me the number!!

You present the numbers, your theory to prove!

I still don't see Nascar or other racing events sports.  Racing and turning a steering wheel left has more in common with someone playing videogames then a real sport like football!  And in Nascars case, all they do is turn left..zzz zzzzzzzz
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Doopri
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« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2006, 08:06:13 PM »

scott im pretty sure hes right about its percent of the top ten - what im not sure is if its the top genre of video games

yea its 2006, 2 years after 2004s "above 20%" but id be hard pressed to believe that sports games have crept over 30% of industry market share -it seems like itd be a pretty static number

and how the hell did a college football game get in the total top ten thats wild!

plus im pretty sure "racing" and "sports" dont belong together - thats almost like including 3d action games in a fighting games percentage - i mean you "fight" in action adventure games right?
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« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2006, 08:30:54 PM »

I can believe it... this week I saw two "casual" gamers' collections.  One consisted solely of just about every version of Madden for the PS2.  The other was a bit more diverse - over a dozen Madden, MLB, NHL, and Need for Speed titles, with Call of Duty 2 and Spider-Man 2 thrown in for good measure.
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« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2006, 09:25:48 PM »

The only sports game I have EVER purchased in about the past ten years was a gift.

The last sport game I purchased and played for myself was NHL '96 for the Sega Genesis.  And everything pales in comparison to it, anyhow.

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kathode
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« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2006, 09:28:50 PM »

No way it's 75%.  It may be 75% of a certain slice, like 75% of the top 10, but the overall is much closer to the 20% quoted above.  Don't even bother with publically available NPD numbers.  They're garbage.  All that said, sports games are huge, and do huge numbers.  Probably the biggest genre sales-wise, though it's very difficult to compare apples to apples there.
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« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2006, 09:34:09 PM »

Is Mario Kart a sports game?

I have a PS2, XBox, 2 Gamecubes, N64, 2 SNES's, NES, Gameboy, DS Lite and maybe 100 games.  The number of sports games?  Probably around 5.  And many of them would be arguable like Mario Kart.

No way in hell is 75% of the market sports.
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« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2006, 09:37:03 PM »

Devils right about the Top Ten of 05'.

But its not 75% overall or, every year. Out of ever game produced.

And yes Racing is a Sport. I'm not talking about Midnight Club or Need for Speed here.

They are driving games. Not Racing Sport event games.

Gran Turismo is one of the only solid Sport Racing games out there. Where you do your closed in tracks, at high speeds, with no damage smile Or people to run over.
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« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2006, 09:48:01 PM »

Quote from: "unbreakable"
The only sports game I have EVER purchased in about the past ten years was a gift.

The last sport game I purchased and played for myself was NHL '96 for the Sega Genesis.  And everything pales in comparison to it, anyhow.


Damn that was a great game.  I've got the music playing in my head just from seeing that picture.
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« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2006, 09:59:44 PM »

Ya know this brings up another arguement for me, except for in certain cases, Ie; disability, I have to wonder why some folks only play sports games, or as in the instances posted above they completely dominate the collections?

If I want sports I either watch em on TV or go outside and play them. Just me though, interested in your thoughts however
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« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2006, 11:01:26 PM »

I never would have purchased a console if it wasn't for sports games.  The PC is a sports game wasteland.  I don't know about the rest, but for me sports games account for at least 75% of my game purchases.
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« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2006, 11:18:48 PM »

Quote from: "Devil"
Here are the Top 10 for last year - Now I need the numbers!

Madden NFL 06 on PS2
Pokemon Emerald on GBA
Gran Turismo 4 on PS2
Madden NFL 06 on Xbox
NCAA Football 06 on PS2
Star Wars Battlefront II on PS2
MVP Baseball 2005 on PS2
Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith on PS2
NBA Live 06 on PS2
Lego Star Wars on PS2.

The Star Wars thing may be even more shocking!


That's only 60% my friend!  Therefore, I conclude that you are wrong.  It is not 75%.  Now, back to my Level 5 Paladin and Cheetos!!!!!!!  Tongue
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« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2006, 11:37:22 PM »

Actually, it all may just be due to successful product marketing.

Think about it: other games, like Quake, will be purchased, and if successful they may even be played for years.  However, success is measured by the ability to attract new customers for a long time with a product which gets older and older every month.

Sports games, they can slap a new player on the front, make a few cosmetic changes (or bug fixes), add in last years player stats, and WHAMMY!   Completely new game.

Every year, rinse and repeat.

Sports game players are a marketer's wet dream.

No mods, no user created content, and best of all, no way to update the data aside from buying next year's game.  It's the ultimate in planned obsolescence!
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Doopri
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« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2006, 11:49:03 PM »

"It's the ultimate in planned obsolescence"

as an aside - you read galbraith?
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« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2006, 11:59:02 PM »

I'm waiting until games like Sensible Soccer and Tecmo Bowl come back to consoles.

I think table tennis is the only game that captured both the depth and simplicity of classic sports titles.
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Devil
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« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2006, 12:36:23 AM »

So to summarize:

Sports games dominate the market in spite of what you clowns think
AND
Devil is right again!

It was nice having you all here, please tip your waitresses and drive home safely. Thanks for coming and goodnight!!

 Tongue
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« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2006, 12:46:30 AM »

actually by units sold the "action" genre dominates the console market (or at least did last year, 2005), though sports are in a (distant) second, or a closer second if you want to lump together the genres "sports" and "racing"

so if second place translates to dominant for you, well then you are the dominant lover of your wife / girlfriend / s.o. - tell her i said hi!


edit: was that too harsh? its so hard to figure out whats going to come out as funny / evil in writing - tone doesnt translate well over the internet
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« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2006, 01:07:58 AM »

Quote from: "unbreakable"


No mods, no user created content, and best of all, no way to update the data aside from buying next year's game.  It's the ultimate in planned obsolescence!


Actually not true at all.

See here: http://www.2ksports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84895

They have even added new camera views to NFL 2k5.
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« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2006, 01:30:06 AM »

Quote from: "Doopri"
"It's the ultimate in planned obsolescence"

as an aside - you read galbraith?


No, who is that?

Also, I may have been a bit hasty with the no mods stuff.  I recall Bill Harris doing a realism mod for some baseball game (which ended up making me buy it for my brother, since it seemed like it could be deeply customized).  But my point was there is no  "one true game" which you buy, it will let you plug in future year stats or update on the fly (imagine a sports games which updated based on current performance), etc.

Sports games are created as time sensitive products, which are updated and resold each year.  Then they throw in a few new features every so often, but nothing earthshaking, since they don't want to introduce anything which will take more than a few months to impliment and test.
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« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2006, 02:07:00 AM »

(In my best Iverson, which half of you won't understand)

Action, Doop? Action? We're talkin' 'bout action? Not a game. Not a game that we play, but action? Action. We're talking about action? Action?

From what I could find - you are correct. "action" was 30.1% while sports and racing came in at 27.2% in '05.
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« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2006, 02:22:13 AM »

I'm still waiting for the sports game that has a small monthly fee to provide the gamer with up to the minute roster changes, ie. trades, injuries, farm team aquisitions, etc., so that the game's player roster reflects the actual player roster.

I'm just not sure if it's a good thing, but damned if it wouldn't be a money maker.
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« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2006, 02:39:07 AM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
I'm still waiting for the sports game that has a small monthly fee to provide the gamer with up to the minute roster changes, ie. trades, injuries, farm team aquisitions, etc., so that the game's player roster reflects the actual player roster.

I'm just not sure if it's a good thing, but damned if it wouldn't be a money maker.


Don't give idea to earn money to Microsoft. They'll charge 200 XBOX Marketplace points for each weekly update if you let them.smile
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Scott
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« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2006, 04:54:52 AM »

Quote
I'm still waiting for the sports game that has a small monthly fee to provide the gamer with up to the minute roster changes, ie. trades, injuries, farm team aquisitions, etc., so that the game's player roster reflects the actual player roster.


Doesn't MLB 2006 do this?  I'm pretty sure you can download fairly up to date rosters all the time.
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« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2006, 03:32:43 PM »

Quote from: "Darren8r"
And yes Racing is a Sport. I'm not talking about Midnight Club or Need for Speed here.


That's an important distinction to me.  Sure, NASCAR is a sports game and probably GT4 and Forza too.  But I wouldn't call NFS (second biggest racing franchise) a sports game, same Midnight Club 2, Ridge Racer, and probably even PGR.
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« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2006, 05:38:00 PM »

Sega Dreamcast - EA Sports = Dead.
It would have helped.

I hate EA gimping the 360 versions of their titles.
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« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2006, 06:29:59 PM »

ai is the man! seriously, no one hustles or plays the game harder than that guy on the court and i must respect any quote modified though it may be of his

and unbreakable - he was an economist - "affluent society" ring a bell?  anyway he wrote on something similar to an idea of planned obsolescence - i thought maybe thats where you were coming from
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« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2006, 09:08:31 PM »

Ah, ok.  I probably didn't read anything by him (not directly, anyway), but I've read a lot about marketing and management.  Planned obsolescence is something very influential today.

I'll have to check that book out sometime, thanks for mentioning it.
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« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2006, 02:30:55 AM »

Well, I've been away for awhile, and look at all the fun I've missed.

I will summarize my thoughts:

(1)  Racing is a sport.  The fact that this is even being debated is comical.

(2) Shifty should be exiled for his comment about removing the Sports Forum.  (exiled as in banned for a good 3 months or thereabouts.)

(3) I would not own consoles if it weren't for sports games.  That is a fact.  But I do not think that is the attitude of most gamers.

(4) I have no clue about sales figures, but I never thought sports games were as big as they apparently are with the "average consumer".  That's great for sports gamers!

(5) Does anyone really thinks consoles would die without sports games?  I think there are WAY too many geeks and nerds out there that play video games that don't even know the rules of baseball, much less ever think of playing a baseball video game.
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