Splinter Cell: Conviction

[disarm]

Agreed.  Chaos theory is the best of the bunch...I'd go back and play it, but the pc version and it's horrible drm (hmm, that's ironic) don't play well on 64 bit windows 7 I hear.

that's very unfortunate news...although i do still have the WinXP system that i used when i originally played CT, i was hoping to max everything out at crazy resolution on my latest rig...

[MonkeyFinger]

Agreed.  Chaos theory is the best of the bunch. Fun gadgets and stealth, multiple approaches without being overwhelming and great dialogue from the guards. I'd go back and play it, but the pc version and it's horrible drm (hmm, that's ironic) don't play well on 64 bit windows 7 I hear.

I dug this out of the basement and it was a complete waste of my time to try to install it. Plain old 32bit Vista barfs on the version of Starforce it loads and "disables" it every boot and then the game is toast. Unless you're willing to work around that, I suppose, not something I have the time nor the patience for at the moment.

[Kevin Grey]

Agreed.  Chaos theory is the best of the bunch. Fun gadgets and stealth, multiple approaches without being overwhelming and great dialogue from the guards. I'd go back and play it, but the pc version and it's horrible drm (hmm, that's ironic) don't play well on 64 bit windows 7 I hear.

Yeah, I'd love to replay the PC version but while I tolerated Starforce then, no way am I putting it on my PC now.  Might have to grab the Xbox version instead. 

[Destructor]

Agreed.  Chaos theory is the best of the bunch. Fun gadgets and stealth, multiple approaches without being overwhelming and great dialogue from the guards. I'd go back and play it, but the pc version and it's horrible drm (hmm, that's ironic) don't play well on 64 bit windows 7 I hear.

I dug this out of the basement and it was a complete waste of my time to try to install it. Plain old 32bit Vista barfs on the version of Starforce it loads and "disables" it every boot and then the game is toast. Unless you're willing to work around that, I suppose, not something I have the time nor the patience for at the moment.

If memory serves, there is a Vista/W7 version of the Starforce driver floating around. Of course, I don't know why you'd want to install it.

And on a side note - anybody beaten the single player yet? I mean, come on - it's only 5 hours long. And it's been two days practically.

[CeeKay]

does the Steam version of Chaos Theory have Starforce?

[Kevin Grey]

does the Steam version of Chaos Theory have Starforce?

According to this thread, no, it doesn't have Starforce.  So now I will almost certainly be grabbing CT from Steam.  Good idea!

[lex]

According to this thread, no, it doesn't have Starforce.  So now I will almost certainly be grabbing CT from Steam.  Good idea!

I bought the steam version specifically b/c it doesn't have starforce during the X-mas sale for I think $5 bucks.  I think if you wait closer to the release date of Conviction on the PC, they might have a sale again.  The game still looks pretty good after all these years, except for the fact that the character models don't have eyelids

And on a side note - anybody beaten the single player yet? I mean, come on - it's only 5 hours long. And it's been two days practically.

You can read about the plot for the SP on wikipedia now.  Anyone played through the co-op missions yet?  Some of the reviews are saying that there is a surprise twist at the end and I want to be spoiled.

[Kevin Grey]

I played up to the "flashback" mission last night.  The game is...okay.  Some parts of it work really well. When Sam is quickly going from one enemy to the other, dispatching them in creative ways, fleeing the scene before he caught, creating distractions, etc it feels nice and fluid.  But whenever that flow is broken the game comes to a grinding halt.  Really it reminds me of Mirror's Edge the way that it moves in such stops and starts. 

And the forced combat is a pain.  Not so much because it's forced but because the mechanics are just really poor.  This is exemplified in the flashback mission which, near as I can tell, is mainly straight up combat and shows how much worse this game is at base shooting than other games that focus on that.  Wasn't enjoying that level at all so that's where I quit for the night. 

Visually it's fine but considering that the series has long been one of the best looking series out there (Chaos Theory was perhaps the best looking Xbox game ever) even that's kind of a disappointment.  And the idea to turn the whole screen to black and white when you are hidden was poorly thought out since it robs the game of any color or identity (it's much worse than the similar issues some had to Batman's detective mode). 

Story seems interesting (but a big change from the previous games) so we'll see if I can punch through but at this point it's easily the worst game in the series to me. 

[Teggy]

  And the idea to turn the whole screen to black and white when you are hidden was poorly thought out since it robs the game of any color or identity (it's much worse than the similar issues some had to Batman's detective mode).   

I thought about this, too, but then I realized so much of the other games were spent with NV goggles on it really wasn't any different. You see a lit up area in color, then you shoot out the lights so you can go into unnoticed. In past games you'd have to flip your NV goggles on to see, here it basically does it for you. Same issue, different mechanics.

I completely forgot about the Amazon bonus and used uplay points to unlock infiltration mode. If anyone wants the code (you enter it in the game's extras menu) it is:
AAX-CN9W-E4KT-MDVF-MVLL

Just post if you used it so I can edit it out.

[Kevin Grey]

I thought about this, too, but then I realized so much of the other games were spent with NV goggles on it really wasn't any different. You see a lit up area in color, then you shoot out the lights so you can go into unnoticed. In past games you'd have to flip your NV goggles on to see, here it basically does it for you. Same issue, different mechanics.

I didn't use the NV goggles to the same extent though.  I would flip back and forth while in Conviction every single time you are hidden, the screen is black and whilte. 

It also brings up a bigger point about the visuals- the first three games in the series were really great about using shadows as an integral part of the specific visual look.  The games' visual identity was created by the contrasting of light and shadows in very creative ways even if it didn't always make sense why some of these very populated areas were maintained in a heavy amount of darkness.  Conviction is lit in a much flatter, less interesting manner. 

[spigot]

I'm at the point where Sam finally got his

Spoiler for Hiden:

sonar goggles and SC3000

. So far the story has been pretty blah. I am also not a fan of the forced combat sections where they throw you in tight corridors and your only viable choice is to melee one dude and use your M&E to take out the others. The one flashback level is also awkward and unnecessary. To compensate for the inability to move bodies, I'm also finding that I'm taking a lot of guys hostage when I can, then dragging them to a dark corner and killing them there.

The color de-saturation thing they do to indicate your visibility takes getting used to, but like Kevin said, it takes away from the color and identity of the game, not to mention it's aged looking visuals. The enemy scripted patrol sequences are as predictable as ever, and the taunts they do are funny for the first 5 minutes, then get extremely grating and repetitive.

They really half-assed both the stealth and action in this game. You're not given the full complement of tools to be truly stealthy, yet when they force you into firefights (such as confined areas with guys swarming all over the place), you're gimped in that area as well with a kludgy cover system and spotty shooting mechanics.

Right now I'm actually wishing I could just get the SP over with already, which is good considering how short it is, so I can get to the co-op MP. The SP is frankly neither satisfying nor bad. The story isn't grabbing me enough to compel me to play "just one more level".

So far I've just been playing a 3rd person action game that's Splinter Cell in name only.

[DamageInc]

Just finished the SP, I thought it was pretty good overall (maybe an 8 out of 10) Playing Deniable Ops now.
I plan on trying the Realistic mode.

BTW, if you like little Easter eggs watch all the credits. There is a funny little conversation about half way through the credits.

The combat situations were a little weird to have in this type of game. (When 6 or 8 guys just rush you)
I just spammed mines and nades and it seemed to take care of the situation.   

Spoiler for Hiden:

The part where you have to run through security gates that are closing was a little hairy

[Purge]

Thanks Teggy.

[Ridah]

does the Steam version of Chaos Theory have Starforce?

According to this thread, no, it doesn't have Starforce.  So now I will almost certainly be grabbing CT from Steam.  Good idea!

I thought about this too, but I don't want to pay $10 for it. I'll grab it if it's on sale one day.

[KePoW]

I absolutely hated the black & white thing from the demo, and it's the sole reason I'm not buying the game.  I don't play games in this day and age of great graphics to see freakin black & white all the time, that is an awful decision.  And I don't think it's the same thing as NV goggles at all.  Batman's detective mode also wasn't anywhere near as bad, because it was mostly optional... I rarely walked around in detective mode.

I don't care about a short SP campaign and I don't care about less stealthy gameplay... but I do care about seeing nice colorful graphics!

[spigot]

Beat the SP finally last night. A fairly forgettable experience overall. I can't recall any one real memorable moment in the entire game. Even the big "reveal" fell flat on it's face. The black/white thing, much like the enemy taunts, went quickly from amusing to annoying.

Played a bit of Hunter solo for Deniable OPs as well. Last Stand mode just didn't appeal to me as I don't like defense type play. Definitely more fun with a buddy. I was getting bored doing the Hunter mode already. Can't wait to try out the co-op campaign.

[Chaz]

So for you guys who finished, how long was the SP?

[Soulchilde]

I like the black/white effect makes the game feel more organic to me.  Much better than something on the HUD to let me know I'm stealth. I will agree that the enemy taunts are very dumb and breaks the immersion. 

[spigot]

So for you guys who finished, how long was the SP?

My playthrough, on Normal, took approximately 6 hours.

[Purge]

So for you guys who finished, how long was the SP?

My playthrough, on Normal, took approximately 6 hours.

In your estimation, how far along (%) was

Spoiler for Hiden:

tagging the chopper with C4?

[DamageInc]

So for you guys who finished, how long was the SP?

My playthrough, on Normal, took approximately 6 hours.

In your estimation, how far along (%) was

Spoiler for Hiden:

tagging the chopper with C4?

It took me about 7 hours. That part I believe was around a quarter/third of the way. There are 11 Chapters in the SP if that helps you.
I think that was Chapter 3 or 4 if I remember correctly.

Finished the first level of Deniable OPS on Realistic and I actually enjoyed that a bit more than the SP.

I think what they should have done is just blacked out the game character instead of the entire game world. Make you look like a shadow so to speak.

[Teggy]

Can you play Deniable Ops SP? I'd rather do it co-op, but playing with randoms never works with those things for me and I'm afraid every one will be done with it by the time I am ready to play.

[spigot]

Yes, the Hunter and Last Stand modes for Deniable Ops can be played solo, but frankly it can get repetitive pretty fast if you're going at it alone IMHO.

If anyone wants to take on the co-op campaign with me, please let me know. It's too bad you can't solo that one.

[Teggy]

Yes, the Hunter and Last Stand modes for Deniable Ops can be played solo, but frankly it can get repetitive pretty fast if you're going at it alone IMHO.

If anyone wants to take on the co-op campaign with me, please let me know. It's too bad you can't solo that one.

Oh, I thought Deniable Ops was the co-op campaign. The prequel stuff? I definitely want to do that, I just don't know exactly when I will be able to schedule it in.

[spigot]

I think what they should have done is just blacked out the game character instead of the entire game world. Make you look like a shadow so to speak.

This x10. That would've been a much cooler and more elegant solution, I think.

[CeeKay]

a little bit on the hand to hand combat.

[spigot]

Gotta love the chatty enemies 

[Vindel]

Question, can the coop missions be played solo with a AI partner or is it online only with another human player?

[spigot]

Question, can the coop missions be played solo with a AI partner or is it online only with another human player?

No go on the co-op solo. It's only with someone else using XBL, system link or split-screen. There's a party session option but I'm not sure exactly what it does.

[spigot]

For those who've completed it. About the last scene:

Spoiler for Hiden:

What was the point of even giving me a choice to kill or spare Reed when the ending is exactly the same? Story-wise they made no attempts to humanize Reed and make him a sympathetic character at all. Yet Sam, who's been mercilessly killing everyone in his path all up until then, is given the choice to take the moral high-ground against a one-dimensional cardboard villain? Aside from some achievement points, the only difference is Grim stating that I'm the only one who she can trust? Okay...  I would've preferred they give me the option to keep bashing his face into a bloody mangled mess on the president's desk.

[Kevin Grey]

Finished last night.  The game got better as it went along and I ended up quite liking it.  Still probably at the low end of the series with Double Agent though.  As I said before, when the game is working as intended it's pretty awesome.  Really it just felt like it needed a bit more polish but given they had already scrapped another game I suppose that wasn't in the cards. 

The story was a huge mess though I enjoyed the manner in which it was delivered.  It made Modern Warfare 2 seem like the height of logic.  Speaking of MW2, I half expect the six month delay of Conviction happened when Ubi realized:

Spoiler for Hiden:

That MW2 had already done the EMP attack on Washington DC, storm the White House bit.

 

Also, this game features one of the absolute dumbest plot points I've seen in years:

Spoiler for Near the End of the Game:

  "Hey, Sam, Washington is about to attacked by 3 EMP Devices.  Don't worry about Sarah- I've put her in the safest possible place for an EMP attack- a helicopter!" 

Seriously, she should have just stayed home. 

[Purge]

Finished last night.  The game got better as it went along and I ended up quite liking it.  Still probably at the low end of the series with Double Agent though.  As I said before, when the game is working as intended it's pretty awesome.  Really it just felt like it needed a bit more polish but given they had already scrapped another game I suppose that wasn't in the cards.  

The story was a huge mess though I enjoyed the manner in which it was delivered.  It made Modern Warfare 2 seem like the height of logic.  Speaking of MW2, I half expect the six month delay of Conviction happened when Ubi realized:

Spoiler for Hiden:

That MW2 had already done the EMP attack on Washington DC, storm the White House bit.

 

Also, this game features one of the absolute dumbest plot points I've seen in years:

Spoiler for Near the End of the Game:

 "Hey, Sam, Washington is about to attacked by 3 EMP Devices.  Don't worry about Sarah- I've put her in the safest possible place for an EMP attack- a helicopter!"  

Seriously, she should have just stayed home.  

I just got past that point, and I was thinking that

Spoiler for Hiden:

the friend was about as dumb as a sack of hammers.

Dragging his daughter INTO the combat zone, let alone in a helicopter with the possibilities of an EMP going off is ridiculous. Also, knowing that you'll be the only bird in the air and not assuming you're going to be a huge target is also a stupid idea.

Having a military target (one as covert as 3E) blow up and NOT having the military lock down the Whitehouse and getting the president off the ground and out of harms way, in this "post-911" world is also a bit far-fetched....

just about as far-fetched as having enough 3rd echelon soldiers to cover the same area of DC that got EMP'd.

[Turtle]

I can guess one of the big reveals, someone tell me if I'm right please:

Spoiler for Hiden:

Sara is still alive and Fisher finds her.

I always thought killing the daughter, even if she wasn't used much was a bad idea for DA.

[Purge]

I can guess one of the big reveals, someone tell me if I'm right please:

Spoiler for Hiden:

Sara is still alive and Fisher finds her.

I always thought killing the daughter, even if she wasn't used much was a bad idea for DA.

Spoiler for Hiden:

Fisher doesn't find her per se, but she IS alive.

[Kevin Grey]

I can guess one of the big reveals, someone tell me if I'm right please:

Spoiler for Hiden:

Sara is still alive and Fisher finds her.

I always thought killing the daughter, even if she wasn't used much was a bad idea for DA.

You are correct.

Spoiler for Hiden:

  While I don't care for some of the justifications used in Conviction, I am pleased that she was alive since her death seemed entirely unnecessary in DA since it didn't even figure into the plot.

[CeeKay]

how not to do a publicity stunt.

[spigot]

The story was really quite ridiculous. I was hooked until the "big reveal" at 3E, then the whole thing went flaccid and kamikazed off the rails MW2 style.

[Turtle]

You are correct.

Spoiler for Hiden:

  While I don't care for some of the justifications used in Conviction, I am pleased that she was alive since her death seemed entirely unnecessary in DA since it didn't even figure into the plot.

Thanks guys!  Actually makes me want to play the game more knowing that.

Spoiler for Hiden:

And knowing Sara is alive this actually makes me want to play the game more, despite issues raised in this thread.  Seems like they're trying to undo some silly story choices in DA... but it sounds like they're still making some silly choices in Conviction.  Frankly, Sam just doesn't feel like a character unless there's a tiny, almost pointless, little segment where he's on the line with his daughter while on an osprey between missions. The biggest bad asses are the ones who have some reason to be one. Like Snake without his cigs and homoerotic tension between him and Otacon.

[Kevin Grey]

You are correct.

Spoiler for Hiden:

  While I don't care for some of the justifications used in Conviction, I am pleased that she was alive since her death seemed entirely unnecessary in DA since it didn't even figure into the plot.

Thanks guys!  Actually makes me want to play the game more knowing that.

Spoiler for Hiden:

And knowing Sara is alive this actually makes me want to play the game more, despite issues raised in this thread.  Seems like they're trying to undo some silly story choices in DA... but it sounds like they're still making some silly choices in Conviction.  Frankly, Sam just doesn't feel like a character unless there's a tiny, almost pointless, little segment where he's on the line with his daughter while on an osprey between missions. The biggest bad asses are the ones who have some reason to be one. Like Snake without his cigs and homoerotic tension between him and Otacon.

Safe for Turtle to read but may be spoilers for those who haven't played at least part of Conviction:

Spoiler for Hiden:

  One of the things I really enjoyed in the first three SCs is that Sam comes across as very well adjusted.  Not only in the way he deals with Sarah but also in his dialogue with Lambert and Grim there is the sense that he is a professional who is very good at what he does but he isn't carrying a lot of excess baggage.  Kind of a nice change from a lot of other video game heroes who always seem so angsty about having the weight of the world on their shoulders. 

I think they really started moving away from that in Double Agent (to the series' detriment) and while Conviction at least fixes the Sarah things, there are regressions in other areas. 

For all of the ultra-violence of Conviction and Double Agent, Chaos Theory seems like the most mature title in the series by a mile since it presents its story well without any added melodrama. 

[CeeKay]

The story was really quite ridiculous. I was hooked until the "big reveal" at 3E, then the whole thing went flaccid and kamikazed off the rails MW2 style.

was it this bad?: (spoilered in case it's close)

Spoiler for Hiden: