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Author Topic: Soooo... are we getting a cel-shaded "Wind Waker 2"  (Read 1926 times)
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Daveman
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« on: June 14, 2004, 03:35:45 PM »

I'm still puzzled by the E3 showing of the more "Mature" Zelda title supposedly coming in the not too distant future for the Cube.  I haven't hunted for links, but I recall there being a few articles/interviews in which it was stated a cel-shaded sequel to Wind Waker was in the works.

Not that I have any problem with what was shown at E3... I'm simply in the camp that likes both.  Heck, I'd even be happy if they adopted a "Mature Zelda for the Cube/Revolution and 'Celda' for the Gameboy" approach to the whole deal.
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AgtFox
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2004, 03:42:33 PM »

For all we know those could just be movies for the new Zelda game that aren't in cel-shaded form, but the rest of the game is.  Maybe part of the game is cel-shaded (Link as a child) and some of it is like what was shown (adult Link).  Maybe it will all be in the adult Link world...who really knows?

Then again, that's just what Nintendo wants from us, to talk about it and get the hype going.  Same could be said for the DS...it's got us talking about what it will be able to do.  Same could be said for "Revolution"...all talk, all conjecture.  Beautiful world we live in, isn't it?
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farley2k
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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2004, 07:22:11 PM »

Moved to Road to Gold since ....well it isn't out yet....
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JCC
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2004, 09:36:11 PM »

Quote from: "AgtFox"
For all we know those could just be movies for the new Zelda game that aren't in cel-shaded form, but the rest of the game is.  


No, Nintendo has flat out said that every second of that trailer is from actual gameplay.

I would guess we are not getting a cel shaded sequel. This game is the WW sequel Nintendo has always been talking about supposedly. They were just keeping the big graphical change a secret. Apparently despite the difference it is running on the same game engine as Wind Waker.
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kathode
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« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2004, 12:28:02 AM »

Shigeru Miyamoto from the Nintendo e3 press conference:

Quote
So Mr. Aonuma actually wasn't lying at the Game Developer's Conference when he said we were working on Wind Waker 2. He just didn't tell the whole story. And fortunately because he didn't tell the whole story, we were able to surprise you all here with a big announcement about the series.


So I'd say no.
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Bullwinkle
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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2004, 05:45:24 AM »

Also, though I forget where I heard this, the engine used in the adult Link game is, shockingly, the same one used on Windwaker (though obviously significantly tweaked).
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Belgedin
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« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2004, 07:40:44 AM »

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Also, though I forget where I heard this, the engine used in the adult Link game is, shockingly, the same one used on Windwaker (though obviously significantly tweaked).


That is true, but it isn't that shocking. The engine was obviously quite functional, so most changes were probably in the art and the lighting models(lose the cel-shaded lighting for a more a true-to-life type of lighting)

I don't expect many "significant" changes had to be made to the engine. Aside from the lighting-code which probably needed a "significant tweak" slywink
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Bullwinkle
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« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2004, 03:39:44 PM »

Well, I do find it shocking.  I understand many games use the same engines, but frequently you can tell from looking at them, "Oh, that's a Quake 3 game" or whatever.  This game looks entirely different. from the size of the characters to the look of the backgrounds to the fact that they have an enormous, realistic looking horse.  And yeah, changing the lighting as they have is pretty significant.  All in all, I'd say a hell of a lot of work went into this game to the point where it doesn't look like Wind Waker at all, and to find out it came from the same engine is pretty amazing.  They didn't just turn off the cel shading, you know.
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EddieA
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« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2004, 04:02:10 PM »

I think all Nintendo ever said was that Wind Waker 2 would use the same engine as the first, and people naturally assumed that meant cel-shaded.
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kathode
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« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2004, 07:01:48 PM »

"Engine" is a pretty abstract term, actually.  If you tear out your engine's lighting code and completely rewrite it, then is it the same engine?  It's like a software engineering zen koan smile

Basically all it means for them to use the same engine is that some of the code is the same and some of the code is different.   The game certainly looks impressive, either way.
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Bullwinkle
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« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2004, 07:54:25 PM »

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The game certainly looks impressive, either way.


Agreed.
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Belgedin
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« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2004, 01:45:35 AM »

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Well, I do find it shocking. I understand many games use the same engines, but frequently you can tell from looking at them, "Oh, that's a Quake 3 game" or whatever.


I can tell from looking at it. The animations and especially Links facial animations (and head mvements, etc) are dead giveaways

Quake III games are easily distinguished because they all use use the so-called realistic art-style. Plus most of them were FPSs.

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from the size of the characters to the look of the backgrounds to the fact that they have an enormous, realistic looking horse.


Textures, textures, textures (and models). It needn't have anything to do with the engine.

Quote
And yeah, changing the lighting as they have is pretty significant.


Not really. It is only significant from a visual perspective. I doubt it required many "drastic" changes to the engine. Cel-shading is just another type of lighting, the biggest difference between it and the more realistic lighting models is the way it "attenuates" over a surface.

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All in all, I'd say a hell of a lot of work went into this game to the point where it doesn't look like Wind Waker at all


No doubt a lot(an enormous amount to be more accurate slywink) of work did go (and is going) into it. However, the change in graphics is almost entirely due to different textures and models not the engine. And I'll put money down on that.

The largest code changes are of course in the gameplay department, what with new elements like the horseback battling. I don't, however, consider such things to be part of the "engine" since generally they are much harder to re-use (unless all you're doing is slapping a new story and new areas onto the game)

I guess I should be more specific and say "the graphics engine".


Quote
They didn't just turn off the cel shading, you know.


Gee, really? eye guess eye 2 dumm to no that.  :?


Look, I didn't mean to contradict you, and I certainly didn't mean to offend. I apologize if it seemed that way. I am sorry.
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Bullwinkle
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« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2004, 06:43:45 PM »

Okay, so you took all that time to explain that it would take a lot of time and work to get the Wind Waker engine to look like the Adult Link footage we saw.  You even felt the need to upgrade my apparently ineffective use of the phrase "a lot" to the more staggering "enormous" ( :wink: back atcha).

So how again is it not shocking that they are the same engine?
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That's like blaming owls because I suck at making analogies.
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