Sony Public Relations = Grasping at Straws

[Tebunker]

http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/19/sony-claims-xbox-360-requires-hd-dvd-etc-thus-costs-700/

I can only scratch my head and laugh. To add injury to insult Microsoft is exploring legal actions because Sony's "Fact" Sheet flat out lies.

[Misguided]

I understand what they're trying to say (that to equal the functionality of PS3 you need that stuff), but it's disnengenious at the least, if not outright dishonest.

[Calvin]

This absolutely pathetic, disingenuous, patently false on many levels, completely misleading on several others, and they are going to get sued. I guarantee it.

[Destructor]

Hey, look, yet another thing to tack onto the 'can Sony get any stupider?' train.

Idiots.

[CeeKay]

Hey, look, yet another thing to tack onto the 'can Sony get any stupider?' train.

Idiots.

would this be enough for another track?

[EngineNo9]

Hey, look, yet another thing to tack onto the 'can Sony get any stupider?' train.

Idiots.

would this be enough for another track?

"I am so smart.  S-M-R-T ... I mean, S-M-A-R-T."

[Chaz]

Well, while I think the idea of a non-user replaceable battery is very silly, it certainly hasn't seemed to hurt sales of the iPod at all, and that one used to have some pretty well-known battery issues.  Of course, it's also unlikely that Sony will be releasing better versions of their controller each year such that when you do have to replace it, a much better version is available for the same price or less.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Hey, look, yet another thing to tack onto the 'can Sony get any stupider?' train.

Idiots.

would this be enough for another track?

How long does a rechargable battery normally last?

[CeeKay]

Hey, look, yet another thing to tack onto the 'can Sony get any stupider?' train.

Idiots.

would this be enough for another track?

How long does a rechargable battery normally last?

They should last a couple of years at least, but considering their recent issues with battery packs I don't thinkl it's the best idea.

[metallicorphan]

im thinking that the battery for the controller for a hard core gamer,may last over a year...but two...???

i think sony are gonna have to throw in a third controller design(first the batarang remember) for the ps3

[Destructor]

Hey, look, yet another thing to tack onto the 'can Sony get any stupider?' train.

Idiots.

would this be enough for another track?

Yeah, that definitely adds another track to the 'Sony really can get stupider' train. What were they thinking?

[wonderpug]

Hey, look, yet another thing to tack onto the 'can Sony get any stupider?' train.

Idiots.

would this be enough for another track?

Yeah, that definitely adds another track to the 'Sony really can get stupider' train. What were they thinking?

Wow, every time I think I couldn't be more turned off by the PS3 they find a new way to amaze me.

[Misguided]

I really liked the look of the boomerang controller...I seem to be the only one, though.

[pr0ner]

Wow.  On both the links posted here.

Sony's mistakes >> Nintendo's mistakes for this launch.   

[th'FOOL]

Wow.  On both the links posted here.

Sony's mistakes >> Nintendo's mistakes for this launch.   

That's funny, because from where I'm sitting, Nintendo isn't making much in the way of mistakes....

In case you are wondering, I don't see the no HD thing as a mistake.

[ATB]

Hey, look, yet another thing to tack onto the 'can Sony get any stupider?' train.

Idiots.

would this be enough for another track?

That...is a debacle.

[Knightshade Dragon]

Wow.  On both the links posted here.

Sony's mistakes >> Nintendo's mistakes for this launch.   

That's funny, because from where I'm sitting, Nintendo isn't making much in the way of mistakes....

In case you are wondering, I don't see the no HD thing as a mistake.

Having seen it up close?  No HD is a mistake.

[EngineNo9]

I really liked the look of the boomerang controller...I seem to be the only one, though.

I wasn't a huge fan of the boomerang controller (although I never got to hold one or anything), but I certainly am not a fan of keeping the same ol' DualShock design.  They also need to move the analog sticks to the more appropriate positions like on the XBox and 360 controllers, and tighten them up so they aren't so loose feeling.  

[jblank]

Wow.  On both the links posted here.

Sony's mistakes >> Nintendo's mistakes for this launch.   

That's funny, because from where I'm sitting, Nintendo isn't making much in the way of mistakes....

In case you are wondering, I don't see the no HD thing as a mistake.

Its a HUGE mistake. If it had HD support I would have preordered one, so right off the bat they have lost a sale for the forseeable future. I will probably get one after the price drops, but for right now, playing games in 480p doesn't exactly get me excited.

[jblank]

I really liked the look of the boomerang controller...I seem to be the only one, though.

I wasn't a huge fan of the boomerang controller (although I never got to hold one or anything), but I certainly am not a fan of keeping the same ol' DualShock design.  They also need to move the analog sticks to the more appropriate positions like on the XBox and 360 controllers, and tighten them up so they aren't so loose feeling.  

Is it really the same controller? Geez, FPS are gonna be awful then due to the lack of feel from the sticks.

[th'FOOL]

Wow.  On both the links posted here.

Sony's mistakes >> Nintendo's mistakes for this launch.   

That's funny, because from where I'm sitting, Nintendo isn't making much in the way of mistakes....

In case you are wondering, I don't see the no HD thing as a mistake.

Having seen it up close?  No HD is a mistake.

Well, considering that HDTV owners are still in the minority, adoption rate numbers are slower than predicted, and it'll probably be at least 3 years before I can even think about getting one, I really couldn't give 2 shits about HD at this point.  Sure, it's way super cool, but I'd rather not pay for features I won't even be able to take advantage of for several years, and I think the average consumer may think the same thing.

Contrary to what most people here believe, HD isn't ubiquitous.  In 5 years no HD is a mistake.  Right now, it's a smart move on the part of Nintendo to cater to the larger marketshare as opposed to the enthusiasts.

[jblank]

Wow.  On both the links posted here.

Sony's mistakes >> Nintendo's mistakes for this launch.   

That's funny, because from where I'm sitting, Nintendo isn't making much in the way of mistakes....

In case you are wondering, I don't see the no HD thing as a mistake.

Having seen it up close?  No HD is a mistake.

Well, considering that HDTV owners are still in the minority, adoption rate numbers are slower than predicted, and it'll probably be at least 3 years before I can even think about getting one, I really couldn't give 2 shits about HD at this point.  Sure, it's way super cool, but I'd rather not pay for features I won't even be able to take advantage of for several years, and I think the average consumer may think the same thing.

Contrary to what most people here believe, HD isn't ubiquitous.  In 5 years no HD is a mistake.  Right now, it's a smart move on the part of Nintendo to cater to the larger marketshare as opposed to the enthusiasts.

But see thats YOU talking. As one of the rapidly growing HDTV owners (not slow growing as you say) being stuck in non-HD land is no fun, especially after gaming on an HDTV with and HD gaming console since LAST gen. What Nintendo is doing is making it easy for the other boys in the game to show just how inferior their console really is.

HDTV is growing a lot more rapidly than you think. It's always a good sign for a new technology when the "Bubba's" are walking out of Wal-Mart with HDTV's, and I am seeing it happen more and more. Sales projections are going up and the sector as a whole is looking VERY good for 2007. Why Nintendo doesn't at least want to embrace that, with giving HDTV owners options, is just stupifying. Give people the option at least, thats all we're saying.

[deadzone]

There is no denying that the HD experience is here to stay and growing rapidly.  Having said that, I think that there is certainly room for a console like the Wii.  Lot's of the general public do not know the first thing about HDTV in reality.  Even if they may have an HDTV, it's doubtful they spend the money to get the most out of their HD experience.  HDTV can look like ass if you don't educate yourself and at the very least have some sort of HD sources to look at such as HD cable or satellite. 

Besides, the bottom line is that a console like the Wii is going to appeal to a wide range of families because of it's cost and it's family-based themes.  I think the 360 and the PS3 are being marketed towards the HD educated types out there that have a nice HD setup and who know how to use it.   

Trust me, people like J-Blank and I have spent the money for an optimum HD experience and know how truly fantastic HD really is!  HD is the future of TV! 

This whole post may not even apply to the subject and for that I apologize!    Hey, I spell checked it though!   

[jblank]

There is no denying that the HD experience is here to stay and growing rapidly.  Having said that, I think that there is certainly room for a console like the Wii.  Lot's of the general public do not know the first thing about HDTV in reality.  Even if they may have an HDTV, it's doubtful they spend the money to get the most out of their HD experience.  HDTV can look like ass if you don't educate yourself and at the very least have some sort of HD sources to look at such as HD cable or satellite. 

Besides, the bottom line is that a console like the Wii is going to appeal to a wide range of families because of it's cost and it's family-based themes.  I think the 360 and the PS3 are being marketed towards the HD educated types out there that have a nice HD setup and who know how to use it.   

Trust me, people like J-Blank and I have spent the money for an optimum HD experience and know how truly fantastic HD really is!  HD is the future of TV! 

This whole post may not even apply to the subject and for that I apologize!    Hey, I spell checked it though!   

Nah, thats a good post with some very good points. I fully admit that many HDTV owners are ignorant of what they have and certainly the general public isn't savvy about HD technology......BUT, I would think that in 2006-2007, when we are probably past the "dawn" of HD, you should at least have HD support be a universality amongst console makers.

Lets turn this around a bit. Say you were a new company that made gaming consoles and they were gonna hit the shelves in 2007, to compete with the 'big 3'. You size up your competition, you check your demographics/target market, and get all that info tabulated. Now, knowing that HD ownership among your target market certainly won't drop, wouldn't you want to design your system with HD support integrated? Why design a new system, with 2006 technology, to not meet the new standard for TV? To me its a no brainer and puts them at a disadvantage that their competition is likely to attempt to capitalize on. Why give your competitors the edge in anything? It's like they just raised the white flag and told people that own an HDTV that they don't think its important, while on the other side you have Microsoft and Sony doing all they can to show HDTV owners just how great their products look on that technology.

I don't know, maybe I am in the wrong here, and I admit for a lot of people HD it no big deal right now, but even among those people, eventually they will get an HDTV and odds are its sooner (within the lifecycle of the Wii) rather than later (post Wii). Why not throw them a bone? Give people options, which is really all I have asked for.

[th'FOOL]

But see thats YOU talking. As one of the rapidly growing HDTV owners (not slow growing as you say) being stuck in non-HD land is no fun, especially after gaming on an HDTV with and HD gaming console since LAST gen. What Nintendo is doing is making it easy for the other boys in the game to show just how inferior their console really is.

HDTV is growing a lot more rapidly than you think. It's always a good sign for a new technology when the "Bubba's" are walking out of Wal-Mart with HDTV's, and I am seeing it happen more and more. Sales projections are going up and the sector as a whole is looking VERY good for 2007. Why Nintendo doesn't at least want to embrace that, with giving HDTV owners options, is just stupifying. Give people the option at least, thats all we're saying.

Ok, first off, I didn't say it was slow growth, just that growth was slower than predicted (I swear I saw an article saying just that a couple of days ago- I'm looking for it).  The fact is, it is going to be several years before more than 50% of tv owners are using HD- it is still relatively at the fringe early-adopter point.

Yes, HD is cool as shit.  Yes, I want an HDTV bad.  No I cannot afford one, just like most people can't right now.  The only thing the lack of HD in the Wii is going to adversely contribute to is the overall longevity of the console, not the here and now.  By the time Nintendo goes HD the format as a whole will be more affordable and their next-next-gen console won't have to be 400+ bucks on launch.  I have zero problem with that.

[jblank]

But see thats YOU talking. As one of the rapidly growing HDTV owners (not slow growing as you say) being stuck in non-HD land is no fun, especially after gaming on an HDTV with and HD gaming console since LAST gen. What Nintendo is doing is making it easy for the other boys in the game to show just how inferior their console really is.

HDTV is growing a lot more rapidly than you think. It's always a good sign for a new technology when the "Bubba's" are walking out of Wal-Mart with HDTV's, and I am seeing it happen more and more. Sales projections are going up and the sector as a whole is looking VERY good for 2007. Why Nintendo doesn't at least want to embrace that, with giving HDTV owners options, is just stupifying. Give people the option at least, thats all we're saying.

Ok, first off, I didn't say it was slow growth, just that growth was slower than predicted (I swear I saw an article saying just that a couple of days ago- I'm looking for it).  The fact is, it is going to be several years before more than 50% of tv owners are using HD- it is still relatively at the fringe early-adopter point.

Yes, HD is cool as shit.  Yes, I want an HDTV bad.  No I cannot afford one, just like most people can't right now.  The only thing the lack of HD in the Wii is going to adversely contribute to is the overall longevity of the console, not the here and now.  By the time Nintendo goes HD the format as a whole will be more affordable and their next-next-gen console won't have to be 400+ bucks on launch.  I have zero problem with that.

Its affordable already though buddy. I can get you right now, at this very moment, links that show well performing, reliable, quality HDTV's, for $500.00 and if you want an LCD, hows about a 32" for $649.00? This is a lot of the problem with HDTV today, poor misconceptions and misinformation.

Nintendo's problem is that they like to be the odd guy on the block. I almost get the feeling they intentionally do things that don't make sense, just to be different. They hate adopting respected trends, they hate embracing technology, and because of that, they seem to me at least, to almost be content with having stuff that is inferior in many ways, to their competition. Sometimes that works (Gameboy's) sometimes that doesn't (Gamecube), but would it kill them to at least give people some choices?

If they are gonna stay this far behind the technological curve, why even bother making a console? Hell, partner up with Sega, let Sega get back into the console game, and you provide the Nintendo library of titles. Keep the Gameboys and DS's going of course obviously, but concede the console race and team up with Sega, would I would love to see back in the race.

[ATB]

Its affordable already though buddy. I can get you right now, at this very moment, links that show well performing, reliable, quality HDTV's, for $500.00 and if you want an LCD, hows about a 32" for $649.00?

That is still a ton of money for a TV. Specially when SD is 1/3 of the price.

[jblank]

$500.00 hasn't been a ton for a TV in 10 years+. The last SDTV I bought was in 2002 and it was a Panasonic 32" that was the middle model in its group, and I paid 650 bucks for it at Circuit City.

[th'FOOL]

Its affordable already though buddy. I can get you right now, at this very moment, links that show well performing, reliable, quality HDTV's, for $500.00 and if you want an LCD, hows about a 32" for $649.00?

That is still a ton of money for a TV. Specially when SD is 1/3 of the price.

Yeah, I don't consider that affordable.  If I spent $500 on a TV anytime soon my wife would kill me.

[jblank]

Its affordable already though buddy. I can get you right now, at this very moment, links that show well performing, reliable, quality HDTV's, for $500.00 and if you want an LCD, hows about a 32" for $649.00?

That is still a ton of money for a TV. Specially when SD is 1/3 of the price.

Yeah, I don't consider that affordable.  If I spent $500 on a TV anytime soon my wife would kill me.

But more than half that price for a game console is acceptable?

[deadzone]

J-Blank said:

Lets turn this around a bit. Say you were a new company that made gaming consoles and they were gonna hit the shelves in 2007, to compete with the 'big 3'. You size up your competition, you check your demographics/target market, and get all that info tabulated. Now, knowing that HD ownership among your target market certainly won't drop, wouldn't you want to design your system with HD support integrated? Why design a new system, with 2006 technology, to not meet the new standard for TV? To me its a no brainer and puts them at a disadvantage that their competition is likely to attempt to capitalize on. Why give your competitors the edge in anything? It's like they just raised the white flag and told people that own an HDTV that they don't think its important, while on the other side you have Microsoft and Sony doing all they can to show HDTV owners just how great their products look on that technology.

I don't know, maybe I am in the wrong here, and I admit for a lot of people HD it no big deal right now, but even among those people, eventually they will get an HDTV and odds are its sooner (within the lifecycle of the Wii) rather than later (post Wii). Why not throw them a bone? Give people options, which is really all I have asked for.

That is definitely something to consider concerning the HD issue.  I will take it further and mention the fact that when you go to an electronics store these days, it's getting to a point where there is little choice left when you are looking for an non-hd crt tv.  It seems like HD crt is getting rarer by the day and being replaced by HD LCD, Plasma, DLP, and Projection tv's. 

See the only thing that I keep thinking about is this:  Was the new Nintendo console even marketed as a direct competitor to the 360 and the PS3?  I mean, I don't remember them really focused on HD or the other two consoles as much as them being focused on bringing the fun back in a very traditional Nintendo sense.  Maybe I am wrong though and am not remembering stuff right.  Heh, I suck if I am wrong because I pretty much marketed the damn thing to myself otherwise!   

[th'FOOL]

Its affordable already though buddy. I can get you right now, at this very moment, links that show well performing, reliable, quality HDTV's, for $500.00 and if you want an LCD, hows about a 32" for $649.00?

That is still a ton of money for a TV. Specially when SD is 1/3 of the price.

Yeah, I don't consider that affordable.  If I spent $500 on a TV anytime soon my wife would kill me.

But more than half that price for a game console is acceptable?

This is the first time I've ever considered getting a console at launch.  It took me months to convince my wife to let me do this.  Acceptable?  Barely.

[Purge]

I HAVE THE ANSWER.

Nintendo didn't go HD because ....

Spoiler for Hiden:

the Wii won't have the horsepower to ultimately handle double the frames and resolution. Low res + interlacing = free AA.  

[jblank]

Its affordable already though buddy. I can get you right now, at this very moment, links that show well performing, reliable, quality HDTV's, for $500.00 and if you want an LCD, hows about a 32" for $649.00?

That is still a ton of money for a TV. Specially when SD is 1/3 of the price.

Yeah, I don't consider that affordable.  If I spent $500 on a TV anytime soon my wife would kill me.

But more than half that price for a game console is acceptable?

This is the first time I've ever considered getting a console at launch.  It took me months to convince my wife to let me do this.  Acceptable?  Barely.

Hmm, thats interesting, but its none of my business and I shouldn't have asked that. All families, spouses, and financial situations are different, and I apologize for butting in on your situation.

[Purge]

Sony has lost their confident stride. Now apparently Wifi isn't a console standard; only the deluxe gets it. Nice.
Sony,  . KTHXBYE

[jblank]

J-Blank said:

Lets turn this around a bit. Say you were a new company that made gaming consoles and they were gonna hit the shelves in 2007, to compete with the 'big 3'. You size up your competition, you check your demographics/target market, and get all that info tabulated. Now, knowing that HD ownership among your target market certainly won't drop, wouldn't you want to design your system with HD support integrated? Why design a new system, with 2006 technology, to not meet the new standard for TV? To me its a no brainer and puts them at a disadvantage that their competition is likely to attempt to capitalize on. Why give your competitors the edge in anything? It's like they just raised the white flag and told people that own an HDTV that they don't think its important, while on the other side you have Microsoft and Sony doing all they can to show HDTV owners just how great their products look on that technology.

I don't know, maybe I am in the wrong here, and I admit for a lot of people HD it no big deal right now, but even among those people, eventually they will get an HDTV and odds are its sooner (within the lifecycle of the Wii) rather than later (post Wii). Why not throw them a bone? Give people options, which is really all I have asked for.

That is definitely something to consider concerning the HD issue.  I will take it further and mention the fact that when you go to an electronics store these days, it's getting to a point where there is little choice left when you are looking for an non-hd crt tv.  It seems like HD crt is getting rarer by the day and being replaced by HD LCD, Plasma, DLP, and Projection tv's. 

See the only thing that I keep thinking about is this:  Was the new Nintendo console even marketed as a direct competitor to the 360 and the PS3?  I mean, I don't remember them really focused on HD or the other two consoles as much as them being focused on bringing the fun back in a very traditional Nintendo sense.  Maybe I am wrong though and am not remembering stuff right.  Heh, I suck if I am wrong because I pretty much marketed the damn thing to myself otherwise!   

Whether it was marketed as a competitor or not, the fact is its a gaming console and by default its got competition in the Playstation 3 and the 360. I suppose my whole point has been that yes, they want to "bring the fun back", cool, no problem, but can't they at least give people the option of watching a DVD or playing it in 720p on their nice 50" Plasma screen? I just have the feeling its gonna look like crap on HD sets, especially when people are playing Resistance or Gears of War on the other consoles at their friends homes.

[deadzone]

J-Blank said:

Whether it was marketed as a competitor or not, the fact is its a gaming console and by default its got competition in the Playstation 3 and the 360. I suppose my whole point has been that yes, they want to "bring the fun back", cool, no problem, but can't they at least give people the option of watching a DVD or playing it in 720p on their nice 50" Plasma screen? I just have the feeling its gonna look like crap on HD sets, especially when people are playing Resistance or Gears of War on the other consoles at their friends homes.

You know, you may be absolutely right about this.  While I don't care about the DVD playback part since I have a nice up-converting dvd player, I wonder how the games will look on my HD set.  Especially considering I have a CRT HD set and I really had to adjust to how SD looks on a Widescreen HD set.  I think LCD can do a better job of cleaning up SD but I am not sure.  I wonder if the games will even support widescreen, because if not, that will kind of suck.  I know I just saw something about component cables that you can purchase to get 480p output with the Wii.  I guess we shall see.  I just can't bring myself to spend the type of money MS and Sony are asking for just for the console.  For the same price as the Sony console I can get several things besides just the console with Nintendo.

[Tebunker]

could you guys NOT have derailed this thread. thanks. I think I clearly set up which thread would be the one for arguing about Nintendo...

[deadzone]

could you guys NOT have derailed this thread. thanks. I think I clearly set up which thread would be the one for arguing about Nintendo...

Sorry about that! 

The Sony PR thing just goes without saying.  From the beginning they have done nothing right in my humble opinion.  I am waiting to see how it plays out but my opinion is that Sony has doomed their console division with the PS3.  Other than core gamers, I think it's gonna be a very hard sell.  The fact that they marketed it as the ultimate HD platform and then neutered the "lower priced" offering with no HDMI input is just mind blowing to me. 

Sony grasping at straws?  Most certainly now, and pretty much from the start and leading all the way to launch.

[jblank]

could you guys NOT have derailed this thread. thanks. I think I clearly set up which thread would be the one for arguing about Nintendo...

Wow, bad mood today?

I just wen't with the flow and someone brought up the non-HD thing with the Wii and it just shifted the conversation from there. Sorry if us talking about that somehow ruined your day. Eeek.