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Author Topic: So much for Revolution not being "powerful" enough  (Read 4261 times)
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Tebunker
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« on: April 08, 2006, 02:15:04 PM »

http://www.flickr.com/photos/elmoco/124806829/

I'm not saying that they're 360 quality, but the scans don't look bad. And they're actually gameplay screens, as the article is a hands on.

In case you were wondering you can get all the info on Red Steel in the latest Game Informer. It's an 11 page cover story, and from what little I can see, it looks stylish and could be realy cool given the control system.

www.joystiq.com has more scans as well.

To be honest, I'm impressed, I didn't expect that level of detail(lighting, the way you hold the gun is represented in game etc.) right off the bat, maybe in a year or so, but it looks like Ubisoft has got a hold of something for this  one.


Here's the gameinformer link, validated the article:

http://gameinformer.com/News/Story/200604/N06.0407.1251.24078.htm

The game is being developed by Ubisoft Paris, (Far Cry Instincts, Splinter Cell, Prince of Persia) so I can see why the game looks as nice as it does.
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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2006, 04:13:22 PM »

From the article:
Quote
"a series of headshots, it is often more beneficial to take a non-lethal shot, such as shooting a gun out of an enemy's hands. I mnay situtations, there wil be a higher-ranking enemy who commands the others in the area. By defeating him and sparing his life, he will offer you his respect and help. The enemies he commands will surrender their guns and the boss may offer you a new weapon, a special path through the level, or other reward. Any time you spare an enemy, you will be rewarded. as it always takes more skill to spare a life than to take it. Freeze shot adds a lot of dpeth to the gunplay and is a natural fit for the Revolution controller, but isn't the only way that Red Steel adds spice to the combat. After all, why would you carry a sword through a game if you couldn't use it? Although the majority of Red Steel's gameplay will stress ranged combat, there will be times you need to get up close and personal. You can switch to the sword at any time, and if you can get close enougn to an enemy, you can use it for on-hit stealth kills. In other moments, you'll find yourself locked into intense one-on-one sword duels. Any time you take on an enemy with a sword of his own, you'll need to take yours out right away, or his blade will make short work of you. Swinging the Revolution controller in front of you, you will see the sword onscreen (cut off)"

Holy fuck. Can you imagine playing a FPS this way? One hand moves you around, while you use the other to 'shoot' at the screen.

And somebody brought this up at one of the links above, and it's an interesting point - since the Revolution is only going to support Progressive Scan output (and not 720/1080), devs don't have to worry about the lack of 'power' on the console for the simple reason that you're only displaying at Progressive resolution.

And here's the Joystiq article:
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/04/07/red-steel-first-revolution-screens-revealed/
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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2006, 04:17:44 PM »

BUT THE REVOLUTION ISNT GOING 2 B AS POWRFUL AS THE XBOX ORIGONAL LOLz!

Yeah, that looks awesome.  Really killer!
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2006, 04:18:45 PM »

Sorry can't say that I'm that impressed. I'd put that on par with HL2 but without the amount of detail. There really isn't that much on the screen in terms of detail, as the level design is pretty basic at lesst in that screenshot. You have to look at whats there. You compare that to say Gears of War. Those screens show very detailed architecture with with all sorts of rubble and such around along with advannced lighting. The fact is unless the hardware specs are totally off whats been reported the Rev is just not anywhere in the same class hardware wise. Thats just a fact.
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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2006, 05:23:32 PM »

Man, that looks like crap!  The Saturn had better graphics than that!  Nintendo sucks, they can't even compete with Tiger Handhelds!  Nobody's going to buy this pile of donkey dongs!

[/sarcasm]

I've not been worried in the least about the Revolution's alleged lack of "power"; The system will be fun and the games will look good even if not every blade of grass is individually animated with independent wind physics and particle deformation at 1080i resolution. :roll:
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2006, 05:45:03 PM »

If it's twice as powerful as the original cube I'll be happy.

Looking good so far.  If that's 1st gen....I can't wait to see round 2 of the games.
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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2006, 05:52:23 PM »

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they can't even compete with Tiger Handhelds!


LOL
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2006, 06:05:13 PM »

I'm really interested in the Rev. more than any other next generation console. I want to play good games, aka classics biggrin

If I come into some money or something, like I win the lottery, I'll get a Rev. and a PS3.
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Farscry
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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2006, 08:55:58 PM »

Like I said in the other thread, it's not so much that I prefer what Nintendo's doing so much as they're filling a (much-needed) niche that Sony and MS are leaving open.  I thoroughly enjoy my 360, but I'm much more excited about what the Revolution might just do.  smile  I'm actually happy with the power and capabilities with the current-gen systems, and while the 360 is outputting some phenomenal visuals, I don't need that to be happy.

Heck, I could probably see getting another 2-3 years out of the current systems with fantastic games still quite achievable.  But I've gotten used to the 5-year cycle and simply resign myself to it.  slywink
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2006, 10:04:41 PM »

Oh man ... if the Rev really can sense how the gun is being "held", like it suggests in the first scan, the game's gunna be so cool. So enjoyable. I love mouse aiming on the PC, but it makes so much more sense if the camera remains level and the gun moves on screen. Almost like the ol' lightgun arcade units, but now the virtual arm is an immersive extension of the player.

Here's hoping the system pulls it off.
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2006, 10:19:23 PM »

Count me out if I have to hold a controller out like a gun to play... my arm will tire in 20 minutes of play.
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2006, 11:37:43 PM »

I'm not saying in or out until I can actually get my hands on that... 'controller'...
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« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2006, 11:58:37 PM »

Quote
Count me out if I have to hold a controller out like a gun to play... my arm will tire in 20 minutes of play.


Sounds like you could use the work out.
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« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2006, 12:07:57 AM »

Sorry, the shots are not all that impressive. They look ok, but it's not mind blowing.

Also, I'm still not sold on the controller as anything more than the next Power Glove. Show me something other than an FPS please that controls well with that remote....then I'll be more impressed.
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denoginizer
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« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2006, 01:04:17 AM »

The shot certainly looks good enough..  It does not blow me away either. It all comes down to the controller.  It COULD be cool for FPS's, but what about sports games, racing games, or 3rd person games?  I will need to see it in action before I am compelled to buy.
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Tebunker
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« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2006, 01:30:03 AM »

Like I said, 360 it's not, but it's not nearly as weak as looking as the specs would make you think.


Also, you don't have to hold your arm out, they're doing that as an example. Nintendo has stated time and time again you can wrest you hand and use simple movements...

I still can't wait to try it out, and seeing this screen just makes me feel good that the Revolution will look nicer than what some would have you believe.
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« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2006, 01:35:10 AM »

I saw a movie of someone playing Quake 4 with a gyromouse (the same kind of controller the Rev will have).  I have to say, I think the Rev is going to be overwhelmingly the best choice for FPS games just because of it's controller.

After years and years of Keyboard + Mouse FPS gaming, it's impossible for me to play an FPS with a crappy joypad controller.
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« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2006, 02:32:35 AM »

Quote from: "Tebunker"
Like I said, 360 it's not, but it's not nearly as weak as looking as the specs would make you think....seeing this screen just makes me feel good that the Revolution will look nicer than what some would have you believe.



I don't think the specs make it out to be weak.  After all the Xbox can do some wonderful things graphically...on my standard TV.  However the Xbox's 480i output still looks  MUCH worse on my LCD TV than the 360.  In fact it looks much worse on the LCD than on the regular TV.  The issue to me is not the horsepower of the Revo.   I realize that I am in the minority, but now that I am getting used to HD gaming, I don't have any desire to go back to 480i.  Call me a shallow graphics whore if you like, but there it is.  

Combine that controller with HD and I would be sold for sure.  Without HD that controller better be amazing.
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« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2006, 04:47:49 AM »

Quote from: "denoginizer"
I realize that I am in the minority, but now that I am getting used to HD gaming, I don't have any desire to go back to 480i.  Call me a shallow graphics whore if you like, but there it is.  

You shallow graphics whore. biggrin

I still have no issues playing my PS2, where 95% of the games on the system don't even support Progressive Scan. It might be because I 'only' have a 30' widescreen TV that supports 1080, or it might not be (as 480i games look like hell on a 50' TV).

All I know is if the Revolution is only twice as powerful as the Gamecube (current guestimate rumor flying around), and if it only supports Progressive, I'll still buy it and be happy with the graphics.
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« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2006, 05:13:46 AM »

Quote from: "denoginizer"
I realize that I am in the minority, but now that I am getting used to HD gaming, I don't have any desire to go back to 480i.


I could swear they've said the Revo will be running 480p, which looks just dandy on an HD set (480i, however, is certainly quite noticeable).
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« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2006, 05:44:18 AM »

Quote from: "Farscry_Redux"
Quote from: "denoginizer"
I realize that I am in the minority, but now that I am getting used to HD gaming, I don't have any desire to go back to 480i.


I could swear they've said the Revo will be running 480p, which looks just dandy on an HD set (480i, however, is certainly quite noticeable).

It will support 480p.  Linky
Quote
A quote from Shigeru Miyamoto going on record as saying, "The majority of people won't be playing our system with an HDTV, though with the Revolution, 480p resolution will be standard."
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« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2006, 07:49:36 AM »

Hey, anyone have a handy link that goes over all of the different options when it comes to video resolution? I'm so frickin' ignorant when it comes to all of the numbers with a lil' letter on the end, and wouldn't mind a little more info.
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« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2006, 11:58:46 AM »

Quote from: "Belgedin"
Quote
Count me out if I have to hold a controller out like a gun to play... my arm will tire in 20 minutes of play.


Sounds like you could use the work out.


Do me a favor, stand up, and hold your arm straight out for 20 minutes for me, then tell me if I need a workout.  And even if I need the workout, I don't play games to get a workout.
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« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2006, 01:44:40 PM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
Hey, anyone have a handy link that goes over all of the different options when it comes to video resolution? I'm so frickin' ignorant when it comes to all of the numbers with a lil' letter on the end, and wouldn't mind a little more info.


I looked, and didn't like any of the links I found.

The i at the end means "interlaced", which is the traditional method of displaying a signal on a tv.  This means that each frame, only every other line is displayed.  First the odd lines are displayed, then the even, and so on.  This is done rapidly enough that the eye is fooled into thinking that with a 480i picture, rather than seeing just 240 lines at once, you're seeing 480 at once.  This is also why, when following scrolling text on a TV, some people (including me) see "black lines" scrolling along the tv screen.

The p at the end means "progressive", which means that each frame is fully rendered - all lines are fully updated with every frame the picture is shown.  As a result, in a 480p picture, you're seeing all 480 lines each frame, no trickery involved.  smile

Basically, in order from worst to best, here are the currently available TV resolutions:

480i - This is the standard North American tv signal.  The PAL European standard is higher, I believe 576i.
480p - This was the first HDTV resolution; basically, the first higher-resolution screens were called "progressive scan" TV's, representing that they ran standard definition, but progressively rather than interlaced. Most people can tell the difference in image sharpness, especially involving vertical movement on the screen (no more moving "black lines")
720p - This is becoming the standard HDTV format, though 1080i is arguably in competition with it.  Not only are there more vertical lines in this resolution, but the horizontal resolution is much higher as well.  This resolution is also natively widescreen (That's the 16x9 aspect ratio you may see bandied around).  If you can run a display at both 480p and 720p, if you have any real visual acuity, you will notice a difference. biggrin
1080i - This is the highest available resolution; much higher horizontal resolution than the others, and the vertical resolution is quite sharp as well.  However, this format is interlaced, which to some people (including me) renders an image that isn't quite as sharp as a 720p signal due to the interlacing, although the resolution (after interlacing) is technically higher than in 720p.

If you're buying a new tv today, you really want one that's in a 16x9 ratio and 720p capable.  Preferably it'll be both 720p and 1080i capable, as any truly high-quality set will offer all available resolutions.
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« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2006, 02:44:48 PM »

i have to admit,those graphics have got me even more excited about the new nintendo

dont forget its also rumoured to be the cheapest of the 3,and that controller....hmm....i am still so-so about it....the way i see it there it just looks like a glorified light gun game....but i have seen people playing tennis games with it,and you move the controller just like you would when using a tennis bat....but when using it like that....my arm would proberbly get tired,LOL

and also there is the 'marketplace' where you can download old NES games

you have to admit,it is sounding great
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« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2006, 02:54:56 PM »

Quote from: "Farscry_Redux"


Basically, in order from worst to best, here are the currently available TV resolutions:


They've started coming out with 1080p sets too.
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« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2006, 03:20:53 PM »

Quote from: "Farscry_Redux"
Quote from: "Dafones"


Basically, in order from worst to best, here are the currently available TV resolutions:


Actually, that's technically not in order if you're talking about 'worst to best', especially for gaming.  720p is by and large accepted as better for gaming as well as fast moving television (i.e. sports) as it provides more temporal resolution than 1080i.  1080i looks great for 24fps broadcast TV, but if you have a television that supports both hooked up to your 360, you might want to check to make sure the 360 is outputting 720p.

As much as a douche as Major Nelson can be, I highly recommend downloading his podcast about HDTVs he did about a month ago if you have any interest in the difference in resolution and why some look better than others (as well as talking about the fact that 1080p/60 isn't going to be possible for quite some time).
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« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2006, 06:00:11 PM »

1st, Teggy, that's cool; I didn't realize 1080p was even on the horizon yet.

2nd, Dimmona, excellent info as well.  I haven't actually seen 1080i in action so I couldn't attest to the quality, but I have seen 720p in action and it's fantastic.  smile
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« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2006, 06:55:06 PM »

Quote from: "Arkon"
Do me a favor, stand up, and hold your arm straight out for 20 minutes for me, then tell me if I need a workout.  And even if I need the workout, I don't play games to get a workout.


Can't we drop this criticism yet? This is not how you have to play a game. You won't make big sweeping motions with your arms, either. I get this visualization of people who only watch one television station, because of the sheer physical effort it takes to use a remote control.
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« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2006, 07:14:01 PM »

I know I'm totally derailing the thread, geez ... thanks for the resolution info, guys. Out of curiosity, I've noticed that God of War has a funky kind of horizontal "cutting" issue that happens every once in a while. Does that have anything to do with the fact that the game's running on the ol' basic 480i and isn't being visually refreshed as well as it could be, or is it just the game itself? It's a whole new world now.


And as for holding the Revo controller realistically like a gun for extended periods of time, I think there will be a mixture of either dropping the gun or resting it against your chest, and having a little adrenaline pumping in a fire fight to help out. I mean, there are people who have to hold a gun for more than a few minutes (for better or for worse), right? I think we can rough it out.

Or, yeah, you can rest your arm on your knee like a regular controller. I'm almost excited to use the controller like a gun, one step closer to immersing myself in the game. It's a personal choice, for sure.
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« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2006, 07:56:41 PM »

I know one thing.  That controller will take gaming geekiness to a whole other level.  If my wife were to walk in and see me waving that remote around like a sword she may never stop laughing.
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« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2006, 07:59:20 PM »

Quote from: "metallicorphan"
and also there is the 'marketplace' where you can download old NES games

And SNES games, and Genesis games, and Turbographics games, and I think (not sure offhand) N64 games.
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« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2006, 08:38:27 PM »

I'm pretty sure you'll be able to pick up N64 games too ... I mean, that's the impression I have, but I can't recall off hand any articles that stated firmly either way. Have to stroll by the IGN "What We Know" section ...

Edit: Yeah, IGN says N64 too.
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« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2006, 08:47:51 PM »

Quote from: "denoginizer"
I know one thing.  That controller will take gaming geekiness to a whole other level.  If my wife were to walk in and see me waving that remote around like a sword she may never stop laughing.


I got over that with the guitar hero controller. I don;t care what it looks like as long as it is fun.
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« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2006, 09:14:52 PM »

Quote from: "adamsappel"
Quote from: "Arkon"
Do me a favor, stand up, and hold your arm straight out for 20 minutes for me, then tell me if I need a workout.  And even if I need the workout, I don't play games to get a workout.


Can't we drop this criticism yet? This is not how you have to play a game. You won't make big sweeping motions with your arms, either. I get this visualization of people who only watch one television station, because of the sheer physical effort it takes to use a remote control.


Then maybe Nintendo should show some footage of people playing this way?  Instead all we get is the exagerated movements.
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« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2006, 09:27:50 PM »

Quote from: "coopasonic"
Quote from: "denoginizer"
I know one thing.  That controller will take gaming geekiness to a whole other level.  If my wife were to walk in and see me waving that remote around like a sword she may never stop laughing.


I got over that with the guitar hero controller. I don;t care what it looks like as long as it is fun.


Yeah, but waving a remote as a sword is about 10x dorkier than playing a guitar on a controller that actually does look like a guitar, on the "I'm a complete dork" scale.   :wink:

Do you really think anyone will be playing the demo units in the stores? If they do, it will be only in a hat and sunglasses with nobody they know anywhere near them!  :lol:
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« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2006, 09:40:25 PM »

I'd say that playing the Eyetoy shit at demo units in the store would be more embarassing then holding a revmote in a gun-like fashion and I've done that.  And what's more embarassing than playing DDR at an arcade?

Seriously, is it so hard to imagine holding the controller in that fashion?  I have never gotten arm cramps from playing Virtua Cop 2 at the arcade - how is this any different?

Anti-Nintendo people are just tossing around minor quibbles and turning them into huge major issues for no reason, from what I'm reading.  I can see it; believe me, I used to do the same thing with the 360.
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« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2006, 10:03:55 PM »

I just had this thought:

Do you realize how much easier it will be to throw the Rev. controller if you get pissed playing a game?  I mean, I'm a controller abuser sometimes.  I went through 2-3 Xbox controllers.  I've been good with the 360 controller though - haven't thrown it in frustration once.

Though, think about it - you're stuck at this part of that shooting game.  How easy would it be, since you're already waving it around, to just zing it against the wall?
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« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2006, 10:33:01 PM »

Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
I'd say that playing the Eyetoy shit at demo units in the store would be more embarassing then holding a revmote in a gun-like fashion and I've done that.  And what's more embarassing than playing DDR at an arcade?

Seriously, is it so hard to imagine holding the controller in that fashion?  I have never gotten arm cramps from playing Virtua Cop 2 at the arcade - how is this any different?

Anti-Nintendo people are just tossing around minor quibbles and turning them into huge major issues for no reason, from what I'm reading.  I can see it; believe me, I used to do the same thing with the 360.



The thing is the Revo will be totally reliant on those things to draw people to it.  Those things you mentioned are gimmicks for the PS2.  The controller is the entire Revolution in my mind. I doubt people will see someone playing mario 64 or a Sega Genesis game and be compelled to buy it.  The controller is walking a fine line between too dorky to be caught dead with, and a revolutionary leap forward in gaimg.  Time will tell which it turns out to be. (At least in North America)
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WinoMcCougarstein
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« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2006, 10:55:03 PM »

I probably look like a dork without the revmote in my hand so whats the difference?
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