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Author Topic: Sign the Hellgate anti subscription petition  (Read 2311 times)
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Daehawk
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« on: November 10, 2007, 03:56:50 PM »

http://www.petitiononline.com/hglsubs/petition.html

Amen brother
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« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2007, 04:27:16 PM »

Silly. The only way to show the company that you don't like their fees is not to pay them. A petition isn't going to do anything. If no one signs up for it, it will get dropped, but people are quite willing to sign up for it from what I have read, so it's not going anywhere.
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2007, 04:44:27 PM »

Quote from: Lee on November 10, 2007, 04:27:16 PM

but people are quite willing to sign up for it from what I have read, so it's not going anywhere.

The Blizzard Fanbois are...scary. To see them post that they were SO glad to see the subscription service come online, despite the major issues the game has, is just insane.
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2007, 05:33:38 PM »

After having some people already pay for a $150 lifetime subscription I can't see there being any way that they would go back to a non-subscription model.  Maybe 6 months or a year ago it could have had a tiny chance, but now that it's out and people have bought the game and subscribed it just won't work.  Might as well try to piss up a rope. 
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2007, 05:46:32 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on November 10, 2007, 05:33:38 PM

After having some people already pay for a $150 lifetime subscription I can't see there being any way that they would go back to a non-subscription model.  Maybe 6 months or a year ago it could have had a tiny chance, but now that it's out and people have bought the game and subscribed it just won't work.  Might as well try to piss up a rope. 

Yep.

Also, petitions are so cute.

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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2007, 05:48:01 PM »

I think it's a little too early for this.

Plus, I'm subbing... so I won't sign an anti-subscription petition.
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2007, 06:33:21 PM »

I'd rather sign a "slash 360 DLC prices by 20-40%" petition. icon_wink
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Blackjack
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2007, 06:50:58 PM »

I was hoping this was the "Petition to end Hellgate Petitions until Flagship has actually gotten the game polished"  icon_biggrin [which could be months  paranoid]. I'd argue they should delay the idea of subscriptions [but not cancel the idea] and focus on fixing the game, improving the chat systems (not to beat a dead horse), making it so your co-op team can actually go through a door into the next zone without getting separated (talk about bugs  Roll Eyes) and doing all the other improvements and fixes necessary because of its (by most opinions) premature release. THEN they can do all those ambitious updates, new content and other goodies that would really make subscriptions appealing to more gamers like me (and I like the game so far, I'm just convinced their focus should be on polishing the game, make it so good that we all want to subscribe).

Of course a few folks are already subscribing and they'd probably feel understandably screwed over if the subscription system were abruptly dropped and everyone had the features and goodies they were paying for, which is why I doubt they'll listen to me (The Delayer), or to the petitions.

If Flagship's financials depend so desperately on $10 monthly subscription fees already, then they've got serious financial problems and they need a new accountant.  Tongue Seriously if it turns out they desperately need monthly fees (rather than it being a "bonus"), then I wouldn't understand why they didn't just stick with a monthly-fee-required game.

As an aside, back when I ran a little fan site dedicated to the German strategy game Incubation (Geo's Incubation Site), I got maybe 250 signatures over the course of some years for an "Incubation 2" petition (I wanted a sequel). The game's producer said I would've needed thousands and thousands of signatures for the petition to carry any weight at all with the publisher. But I felt better doing the petition, so, my jokes aside, I don't begrudge anyone doing this sort of petition if it makes them feel better. Just know how many legit sigs you need for a publisher/dev to take any notice.  icon_neutral
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 06:54:21 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2007, 06:55:08 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on November 10, 2007, 06:50:58 PM

I was hoping this was the "Petition to end Hellgate Petitions until Flagship has actually gotten the game polished"  icon_biggrin [which could be months  paranoid]. I'd argue they should delay the idea of subscriptions [but not cancel the idea] and focus on fixing the game, improving the chat systems (not to beat a dead horse), making it so your co-op team can actually go through a door into the next zone without getting separated (talk about bugs  Roll Eyes) and doing all the other improvements and fixes necessary because of its (by most opinions) premature release. THEN they can do all those ambitious updates, new content and other goodies that would really make subscriptions appealing to more gamers like me (and I like the game so far, I'm just convinced their focus should be on polishing the game, make it so good that we all want to subscribe).

Of course a few folks are already subscribing and they'd probably feel understandably screwed over if the subscription system were abruptly dropped and everyone had the features and goodies they were paying for, which is why I doubt they'll listen to me (The Delayer), or to the petitions.

If Flagship's financials depend so desperately on $10 monthly subscription fees already, then they've got serious financial problems and they need a new accountant.  Tongue Seriously if it turns out they desperately need monthly fees (rather than it being a "bonus"), then I wouldn't understand why they didn't just stick with a monthly-fee-required game.

As an aside, back when I ran a little fan site dedicated to the German strategy game Incubation (Geo's Incubation Site), I got maybe 250 signatures over the course of some years for an "Incubation 2" petition (I wanted a sequel). The game's producer said I would've needed thousands and thousands of signatures for the petition to carry any weight at all with the publisher. But I felt better doing the petition, so, my jokes aside, I don't begrudge anyone doing this sort of petition if it makes them feel better. Just know how many legit sigs you need for a publisher/dev to take any notice.  icon_neutral

Gosh, I loved Incubation smile
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« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2007, 07:35:59 PM »

Quote from: depward on November 10, 2007, 05:48:01 PM

I think it's a little too early for this.

Plus, I'm subbing... so I won't sign an anti-subscription petition.

+1.  I want my shinies!!!!!!
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« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2007, 07:43:02 PM »

Where is the option for "if you are stupid enough to pay this idiotic subscription fee you don't deserve a stupid ass petition?" Sorry Dep (and CK a tad).
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« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2007, 08:11:30 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on November 10, 2007, 07:43:02 PM

Where is the option for "if you are stupid enough to pay this idiotic subscription fee you don't deserve a stupid ass petition?" Sorry Dep (and CK a tad).

<shrug> the 10 bucks per month I end up spending on it will mean nothing to my wallet in the grand scheme of things.  Also, I noticed the petition doesn't make sense using EQ2 as an example of a game sustaining itself with expansion packs as it's also a subscription service.
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« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2007, 07:00:47 AM »

Quote from: Calvin on November 10, 2007, 07:43:02 PM

Where is the option for "if you are stupid enough to pay this idiotic subscription fee you don't deserve a stupid ass petition?" Sorry Dep (and CK a tad).
Just so I understand you correctly....  You are saying that anyone who subscribes to this game is stupid?
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« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2007, 10:30:38 AM »

Quote from: Hotfreak on November 11, 2007, 07:00:47 AM

Quote from: Calvin on November 10, 2007, 07:43:02 PM

Where is the option for "if you are stupid enough to pay this idiotic subscription fee you don't deserve a stupid ass petition?" Sorry Dep (and CK a tad).
Just so I understand you correctly....  You are saying that anyone who subscribes to this game is stupid?

It's Calvin.  Don't mind him, he just needs an enema.
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« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2007, 01:55:52 PM »

Why, why, why did you have to give us a Visual like that?  eek Tongue

I'm going to start a petition called, "The anti-Hellgate-petition Petition."  icon_wink No, not really. I just want to see the game get its 47 kinks worked out so we can start seeing what sorts of content updates they can do, and then subscribing might really appeal to me as well. smile

I wish they'd have more quests like in Diablo II's expansion. They seem to be cribbing too many MMO-like "Get me 3 of the Alfredo Monsters' ears, and 14 tongues from a Golaith Frokazoid etc.." Can't we have a quest that involves something more interesting than harvesting guts? Someone do a petition on that...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2007, 01:59:25 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2007, 03:36:03 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on November 11, 2007, 01:55:52 PM

Why, why, why did you have to give us a Visual like that?  eek Tongue

I'm going to start a petition called, "The anti-Hellgate-petition Petition."  icon_wink No, not really. I just want to see the game get its 47 kinks worked out so we can start seeing what sorts of content updates they can do, and then subscribing might really appeal to me as well. smile

I wish they'd have more quests like in Diablo II's expansion. They seem to be cribbing too many MMO-like "Get me 3 of the Alfredo Monsters' ears, and 14 tongues from a Golaith Frokazoid etc.." Can't we have a quest that involves something more interesting than harvesting guts? Someone do a petition on that...
Black, there are different kinds of quests that start coming in Act 4.  In Act 5, there are some quests that qualify as mini-games that are definitely more interesting.

Some of these games seem to prefigure new PvP modes, which, if implemented as group PvP, could be quite fun.
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« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2007, 04:09:00 PM »

Ahh look another "Internet petition" that will so work.....not.

Gamers not opening up their wallets is the only thing that will have an effect.
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« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2007, 09:53:39 PM »

Quote from: Hotfreak on November 11, 2007, 07:00:47 AM

Quote from: Calvin on November 10, 2007, 07:43:02 PM

Where is the option for "if you are stupid enough to pay this idiotic subscription fee you don't deserve a stupid ass petition?" Sorry Dep (and CK a tad).
Just so I understand you correctly....  You are saying that anyone who subscribes to this game is stupid?

Also this is someone who hasn't played the game.  So yeah, take with a grain of salt...
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« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2007, 11:31:07 PM »

Vote with your dollars.  Either play the game and don't subscribe... or don't play the game.

The only reason they will get rid of the subscription model is if the economics don't work.  And, IMO, rightfully so.  As much as I loved Diablo and Diablo 2, it was somewhat insane for Blizzard to prove years upon years of support for the games.  Heck, didn't they just release a Diablo patch in the last year or so?

Honestly, though, I think $10 a month is too much.  If it were $5/mo, I would have no problem with subscribing.  I'll only subscribe to one MMOG at a time, and right now that's WoW.  $5/mo would kind of let it fly under the radar of my self-imposed rule.  Although, I play WoW so rarely now I should stop that one too.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2007, 11:33:49 PM by unbreakable » Logged
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« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2007, 07:46:02 AM »

Yeah, I have often wondered whether if they had just gone the $5 route required for everyone it may have avoided a lot of the issues people have with the subscription model. 
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« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2007, 08:43:53 AM »

Quote from: depward on November 11, 2007, 09:53:39 PM

Quote from: Hotfreak on November 11, 2007, 07:00:47 AM

Quote from: Calvin on November 10, 2007, 07:43:02 PM

Where is the option for "if you are stupid enough to pay this idiotic subscription fee you don't deserve a stupid ass petition?" Sorry Dep (and CK a tad).
Just so I understand you correctly....  You are saying that anyone who subscribes to this game is stupid?

Also this is someone who hasn't played the game.  So yeah, take with a grain of salt...

I spent more than enough time with the beta to draw an informed opinion. Considering that what I read indicates that the latest version of the beta client I played (Approximately 5 days prior to the games release) was virtually identical to release code, I would say I have played enough of what the game represented to form an opinion which requires no table salt to digest. And I also am fairly sure you know that, so dismissing my perfectly valid complaints about a game that I sampled the way the developer thought appropriate to demonstrate is just not very nice. Kthnx?

To answer hotfreak-pretty much yes.
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« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2007, 09:07:49 AM »

at least when Disney opened the pirates of the Caribbean ride the pirates didn't eat the guests.....
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« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2007, 02:31:49 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on November 12, 2007, 07:46:02 AM

Yeah, I have often wondered whether if they had just gone the $5 route required for everyone it may have avoided a lot of the issues people have with the subscription model. 

That would probably have been smarter.  Having subscribers and non-subscribers might seem like a good idea or a compromise, but all it ends up doing is making first and second class citizens.
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« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2007, 04:12:49 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on November 11, 2007, 11:31:07 PM

Honestly, though, I think $10 a month is too much.  If it were $5/mo, I would have no problem with subscribing.  I'll only subscribe to one MMOG at a time, and right now that's WoW.  $5/mo would kind of let it fly under the radar of my self-imposed rule.  Although, I play WoW so rarely now I should stop that one too.

Especially after I read an interview with Bill Roper where he said their plan was to offer a new content update with new zones and such every 3 months? So pay a monthly fee to get new content maybe every few months? Well I guess the rest of the money has to go for paying for the "extra stash" they give you.

I just don't see the reason to stay subscribed all the time. They should have looked at how Guild Wars did it.
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« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2007, 09:43:53 PM »

Yeah, basically after I read that, I figured when they have new content I'll just subscribe to check it out, then likely go back to not subscribing.

Plus... I don't know what it is exactly about the concept of "subscriber only gear", but it really kind of offends me on some level.  It's kind of like saying "ok, if you subscribe you get the full game, but if not have fun playing a lesser version".
« Last Edit: November 12, 2007, 09:53:17 PM by unbreakable » Logged
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« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2007, 10:28:56 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on November 12, 2007, 09:43:53 PM

Plus... I don't know what it is exactly about the concept of "subscriber only gear", but it really kind of offends me on some level.  It's kind of like saying "ok, if you subscribe you get the full game, but if not have fun playing a lesser version".

It's much the same thing as "expansion-only gear". Recall that PSO/PSU had this, as did Everquest (two same-level subscribers, one has access to one expansion, another doesn't, the one could have exclusive gear the other doesn't have).
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« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2007, 09:37:05 PM »

More and more publishers are interested in "micro transactions" and "play the basic for free, pay for premium" (a la Dungeon Runners), so I'm afraid we'll probably have to get used to it.  disgust

Even though I generally like the game and have been playing quite regularly in the evenings, I still just don't get the idea of shipping the game with the subscription stuff not in place and no major content updates on the near horizon. They had years to plan this game's release. Blizzard would never ship a game this way (something like this they'd almost certainly have bumped to February, and not given a set-in-stone release date in the first place), so it just will always boggle me that Flagship would've learned nothing from their years in the Blizzard fold. I never dreamed Bill Roper would have to spend every other day defending the game, promising fixes, explaining or justifying why the game was designed this way or that way or didn't have such and such at launch. It's just bizarre. icon_confused
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« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2007, 10:48:20 PM »

I guess they weren't really the reason Diablo was so great...
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« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2007, 06:01:57 PM »

After playing a bit, I think my biggest unhappiness is only having 3 character slots.

Also, is there a way to transfer items between characters?  If not, it kind of sucks they felt the need to replicate the biggest problem with Diablo.
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« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2007, 06:11:24 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on November 16, 2007, 06:01:57 PM

After playing a bit, I think my biggest unhappiness is only having 3 character slots.

Also, is there a way to transfer items between characters?  If not, it kind of sucks they felt the need to replicate the biggest problem with Diablo.

Both those are subscription only..nice huh?  thumbsdown
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« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2007, 03:09:42 AM »

Actually, as of last check, there's no way period to transfer items short of trading it to another trusted player first. That was supposed to be a subscriber 'bonus', but that's been axed for now.

To get more character slots, yes, you need to be a subscriber.
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« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2007, 04:51:16 AM »

Quote from: unbreakable on November 16, 2007, 06:01:57 PM

After playing a bit, I think my biggest unhappiness is only having 3 character slots.

Well, good news, they realized what a stupid choice that was and with the next patch all players are getting the number of character slots bumped up to 24, both free and elite. icon_biggrin
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« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2007, 05:44:33 AM »

Quote from: Farscry on November 17, 2007, 04:51:16 AM

Quote from: unbreakable on November 16, 2007, 06:01:57 PM

After playing a bit, I think my biggest unhappiness is only having 3 character slots.
Well, good news, they realized what a stupid choice that was and with the next patch all players are getting the number of character slots bumped up to 24, both free and elite. icon_biggrin

So, wait...yet another reason to subscribe removed just like that?
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« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2007, 04:07:29 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on November 17, 2007, 03:09:42 AM

Actually, as of last check, there's no way period to transfer items short of trading it to another trusted player first. That was supposed to be a subscriber 'bonus', but that's been axed for now.

At least in Diablo you could drop it on the ground and try to rejoin that game with another character (and pray that instance is either still there or doesn't crash).
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« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2007, 02:51:51 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on November 15, 2007, 09:37:05 PM

Blizzard would never ship a game this way (something like this they'd almost certainly have bumped to February, and not given a set-in-stone release date in the first place), so it just will always boggle me that Flagship would've learned nothing from their years in the Blizzard fold. I never dreamed Bill Roper would have to spend every other day defending the game, promising fixes, explaining or justifying why the game was designed this way or that way or didn't have such and such at launch. It's just bizarre. icon_confused

Blizzard also gets almost total freedom and time to get their games right, which is a good thing. Flagship would be on a much tighter leash even though they have the pedigree of once working there. Not to say thats makes it ok they game shipped in the condition it did as they should have taken that into account and scaled the game back so it could have been released in stable condition.
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