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Author Topic: Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga Impressions! (pg. 2)  (Read 10630 times)
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EddieA
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« Reply #80 on: July 12, 2005, 10:00:20 PM »

Gratch - What level are your characters?  I rarely get ambushed, and the only reason I could guess you're getting ambushed so often is if you're at a low level compared to the enemies.  I think I was about level 20 when I finished the Citadel.

angrycoder - Once the atma bar fills up, you've mastered the mantra and have to pick a new one.  Since you gain atma by devouring enemies, and Argilla at first refuses to do so, she won't gain atma.  Just keep playing - you'll soon be able to change Serph and Heat's mantras and Argilla will have a change of heart.
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« Reply #81 on: July 12, 2005, 10:22:04 PM »

Quote from: "EddieA"
Gratch - What level are your characters?  I rarely get ambushed, and the only reason I could guess you're getting ambushed so often is if you're at a low level compared to the enemies.  I think I was about level 20 when I finished the Citadel.


Serph is level 22, Heat and Argilla are 20.  They all just got to the point where they can equip 8 skills.  

Maybe I'm just unlucky.  frown
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« Reply #82 on: July 13, 2005, 12:36:08 PM »

Gratch - apparently it's the "luck" characteristic that influences if you're "ambushed" or not.  That's odd though - I would get ambushed less than %10 of the time.  Something's going on there . . .

Also - after reading some reviews of the second game, I'm just more eager to play it.  I can't WAIT!  Everyone says it capitalizes in every respect from the first installment.  Also, I read that there are an abundance of save points - unlike the first DDS game (I thought they were tolerable) - so that's another good point.

I just hope that all of you that are playing through it at the moment stick it out.  The second game is guaranteed to be a lot better in every way.

A tip for all - get the iron stomach skill and have everyone devour enemies.  At first I had the "share" trait (forgot the official name of it) on Serph and, although it worked, it took awhile to master some latter mantras for my other characters.  But if you have iron stomach equipped on all characters when consuming enemies (hit their weakness, have them all frightened, then have one character do a multi-hit devour skill - yum yum!) and watch that character's atma bar fill to the brim.
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Gratch
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« Reply #83 on: July 16, 2005, 02:16:31 PM »

Well, I'm done with DDS.  As much as I really, really, really wanted to like it, I just could not stand that encounter rate.  About the time I had to backtrack through the Maribel base again, I had had enough.

I would still highly recommend it, but only to those who have a boatload of patience.  The art style, music, and story are all absolutely stellar, but the encounter rate ruins what was otherwise a fantastic game.  Too bad, really.  frown
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« Reply #84 on: July 16, 2005, 05:31:51 PM »

Well thanks Gratch frown Basically now I am not sure if I should even bother trying again-your feelings on the game basically mirror mine exactly.

Tell me, did you find SoA encounter rates just as bad? God I wish I could try that game again frown
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« Reply #85 on: July 16, 2005, 05:36:48 PM »

SoA = Skies of Arcadia?  Funny you should mention that.

When I returned it last night, the guy at Gamestop was bemoaning the fact that I didn't appreciate what a great game DDS was.  I told him I'm adding it to a rare list of mine:  Games that were almost perfect, but had one critical design flaw that ruined what could have been an amazing game.  Skies of Arcadia is the only other game on that list.  frown
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« Reply #86 on: July 16, 2005, 06:17:27 PM »

Quote from: "Gratch"
SoA = Skies of Arcadia?  Funny you should mention that.

When I returned it last night, the guy at Gamestop was bemoaning the fact that I didn't appreciate what a great game DDS was.  I told him I'm adding it to a rare list of mine:  Games that were almost perfect, but had one critical design flaw that ruined what could have been an amazing game.  Skies of Arcadia is the only other game on that list.  frown


Seriously man, I feel you. We are in the same boat. The encounter rate is absurd. I can understand someone like Deppy saying, yeah I played through it, but I challenge ANYONE to give me ONE good reason why it is a good design decision.
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EddieA
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« Reply #87 on: July 21, 2005, 07:01:30 AM »

Mantra skill gaining and levelling up are separate.  Levelling up is done through the traditional Exp. points method.  Your main character Serph, gets 3 points to distribute to their attributes (along with HP and MP increases), while the other party members' points are distibuted automatically based on what kind of character they are.  Winning a battle gets you points towards completing your mantra and permanently gaining the skills associated with it.  If you use devour skills, you master mantra much more quickly.  You can have as many skills as you want, but only 6-8 (depending on your level) active at any one time.
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #88 on: July 24, 2005, 07:11:24 PM »

Finished this last night.  The game is definitely more than the sum of its parts, as I find myself intrigued enough by the story to want to play the sequel, but DDS's flaws are so glaring that the game itself was a chore to finish. This is the first RPG I've played where I don't think I completed an entire battle in the last dungeon. I just kept hitting the retreat button to leave the battle every time I had an encounter.

The most impressive part of the game was the battle system. I liked the mantra system and how each enemy had a specific weakness that could be exploited. I also enjoyed the fact that the random encounters were usually just difficult enough that I had to stay on my toes and I couldn't just mash the attack button most of the time.

As others have mentioned, the production values in this game are fantastic. The graphics and art design are top notch and the game has the best voice acting in any Japanese RPG that I've played. There's no weak actors and they all play it straight, rather than sounding like a voice from the Cartoon Network.

With that said, the flaws in the game really stand out. The thing that really damns the game is the bland and repetitive dungeons. They reuse the same room about thirty times in each dungeon and there is very little ionteraction in any of the dungeons. It's usually just a straight trek from point A to point B.

The battle system is also completely unbalanced. Once you get a couple of key mantras, bosses cease to be difficult. Although the random encounters can still be dangerous if you're ambushed, a boss's weakness is irrelevant because there are mantras that will pretty bloxk everything that they can throw at you. Then it's just a matter of dinking away at the boss until it's dead. I don't think I took a single point of damege against the second to last boss.

Still, despite my complaints, I'm intrigued enough that I'll probably pick up DDS 2 at some point after its released. I know it's supposed to address a lot of the flaws in the first game, so I'm hoping that it'll be a much more rewarding experience.
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depward
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« Reply #89 on: July 25, 2005, 12:38:05 AM »

Quote from: "Andrew Mallon"
This is the first RPG I've played where I don't think I completed an entire battle in the last dungeon. I just kept hitting the retreat button to leave the battle every time I had an encounter.

Same here   :shock:

I'm curious to hear what level characters you completed the game with.  Serph was level 50 with the rest of my characters being level 47 with Argilla being 48.  So I had to run from practically every battle due to the uncompleteness of different elemental affinities for all of my characters.  By the time around the last dungeon, I'm thinking you should at least have the "natural" elemental affinity mantra line filled out in the grid, making you immune to that element.  But also you should have the specific character's elemental weakness filled out as well.  This I did not have and it was really getting exploited in the last dungeon.

Anyways, the weaknessess you pointed out are valid points indeed.  But I'm glad you completed the game!  I loved the set-up from the last save point on - interesting, very interesting!
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #90 on: July 25, 2005, 02:28:22 AM »

I finished with Serph at 58, Heat at 55, and Argilla at 57 (I didn't use any of the other characters unless I had to). I had Serph as the main magic user with maxed out Magic, Heat was my tank, and Argilla was the healer.
I didn't worry too much about my character's weaknesses once Serph got Magic Repel and Heat had Phys Repel. Just between those two mantras, the only threats I really had to worry about was Almighty magic and status effects.

Speaking of status effects, I was fighting the final form of the last boss and had its HP  in the "red zone" when it cast Vanity and charmed Argilla. So the next round Argilla cast Mediarahan (or whatever its called) and completely heals the boss. I basically was back to square one. Unfortunately, it was also past 2:00 AM and I had breakfast plans today.  :? Took me a half and hour to get the boss's HP back down to the red zone.
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« Reply #91 on: July 29, 2008, 11:00:18 PM »

& here we are, 3 years on, &, what with nothing but disgaea 3 in the immediate future, i'm declaring august 'smt month', starting with dds 1&2 (neither of which i really got into), followed (hopefully) by devil summoner & nocturne (neither of which i ever finished). how much grinding / overly-frequent encountering can one guy take? - i'm gonna find out smile ...
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« Reply #92 on: July 30, 2008, 02:08:43 AM »

Quote from: semiconscious on July 29, 2008, 11:00:18 PM

& here we are, 3 years on, &, what with nothing but disgaea 3 in the immediate future, i'm declaring august 'smt month', starting with dds 1&2 (neither of which i really got into), followed (hopefully) by devil summoner & nocturne (neither of which i ever finished). how much grinding / overly-frequent encountering can one guy take? - i'm gonna find out smile ...

I'm tempted to join you.  I'm finishing a couple of games in the next week and I've been looking at my SMT games just sitting on the shelf.  I have DDS 1 & 2, Nocturne and Persona 3.  I never got Devil Summoner as I heard it was more of an action game.  That's right, right?
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« Reply #93 on: July 30, 2008, 02:21:55 AM »

Somewhat Correct warning. SMT:Devil Summoner battles kinda play out like Tri-Ace (Star Ocean, Valkyrie Profile)-lite battles.  Much of the standard SMT fare is present, just the battle system is VERY different.  I did like the opportunities during exploration in the real world for your demons to use their skills.

I was thinking, I still haven't played Persona 2 yet.
So a tenative playlist for August?:
Persona 2
Nocturne
DDS1
DDS2
Devil Summoner
Persona 3:FES


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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #94 on: July 30, 2008, 02:48:44 AM »

Quote from: warning on July 30, 2008, 02:08:43 AM

I'm tempted to join you.  I'm finishing a couple of games in the next week and I've been looking at my SMT games just sitting on the shelf.  I have DDS 1 & 2, Nocturne and Persona 3.  I never got Devil Summoner as I heard it was more of an action game.  That's right, right?

Play P3 first- it's the most accessible SMT game and knowledge of the spells and summons will likely help in DDS1&2 and Nocturne. 
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« Reply #95 on: July 30, 2008, 04:08:32 AM »

Quote from: warning on July 30, 2008, 02:08:43 AM

I'm tempted to join you.  I'm finishing a couple of games in the next week and I've been looking at my SMT games just sitting on the shelf.  I have DDS 1 & 2, Nocturne and Persona 3.  I never got Devil Summoner as I heard it was more of an action game.  That's right, right?

see, the 'sitting on the shelf' thing was what finally ticked me off - i've always had a great time with each smt game (probably second only to the ff games for me), but, aside from p3, i also always seem to get distracted by something new & shiny within a couple weeks, &, before i know it, each one ends up on the damn shelf, unfinished...

as jake says, ds is a cool but very different take on things - a bit clunky, but fun (one reason i wanna try to finish it is this bit of strangeness, which, because of the cat, people are guessing might be ds2)...

(&, yeah, can't forget p2 smile )...

i agree with kevin: just the fact that i actually did finish it (with over 100 hrs logged) kinda speaks for itself - incredibly cool game, & a great entry point for all things smt, for sure...


edit: i've reached the citadel in dds. like the gameplay & dungeons (so far) a lot, & the story & characters are very good. glad i didn't skip it & go straight to 2 (something i'd eventually talked myself into way back when) - i'm enjoying it...
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 04:15:00 AM by semiconscious » Logged

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« Reply #96 on: July 30, 2008, 06:02:26 AM »

I've been playing through DDS myself. It's way better than nocturne. Haven't played in a while because I don't wanna play it for 2 hours at a time. Game can't really played like that. Going to dig back in tomorrow. I'm at the part with the ship now. Story seems compelling enough as well.
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semiconscious
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« Reply #97 on: July 30, 2008, 12:12:15 PM »

& famitsu's confirmed that the weirdness i linked to is indeed ds2 (for the ps2), to be released late october in japan...
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« Reply #98 on: July 30, 2008, 03:50:41 PM »

Quote from: semiconscious on July 30, 2008, 12:12:15 PM

& famitsu's confirmed that the weirdness i linked to is indeed ds2 (for the ps2), to be released late october in japan...

That's awesome?!  Thanks for that semi - I really enjoyed Devil Summoner... it was a sort of a smt-lite adventure for me.  Also liked the 'detective' aspect of it.  (sitenote - Atlus ran a contest where the winner would win a framed poster signed by Kazuma Kaneko.  I wanted that bad buy.  Read in the rules you could apply like 50 times a day.  So I did... and I didn't win.  Boooo)

And I definitely recommend anyone to power through DDS 1 & 2.  While DD1 is a little more dungeon-heavy than DDS2, some of the story elements & cutscenes will have you say "what the heck?!" out loud.  I wish I could get a disc of all of the cutscenes from the two games...

DDS1 also sets up for the stellar, absolutely awesome DDS2.
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« Reply #99 on: July 30, 2008, 05:37:08 PM »

Hey, I could use a SMT primer or something. When I finish Persona 3, with as much as I've heard it referred to as an entry-level SMT game, is there a readily available "real" SMT game I should try next, or should I just be patient and eagerly await Persona 4 (which I'll do regardless)? I dig a good rpg whether it be casual or hardcore.
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« Reply #100 on: July 30, 2008, 05:40:58 PM »

Quote from: Farscry on July 30, 2008, 05:37:08 PM

Hey, I could use a SMT primer or something. When I finish Persona 3, with as much as I've heard it referred to as an entry-level SMT game, is there a readily available "real" SMT game I should try next, or should I just be patient and eagerly await Persona 4 (which I'll do regardless)? I dig a good rpg whether it be casual or hardcore.

Move backwards through the releases- after P3 go to DDS1&2 and then Nocturne last. 
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« Reply #101 on: July 30, 2008, 06:26:23 PM »

Quote from: Farscry on July 30, 2008, 05:37:08 PM

Hey, I could use a SMT primer or something. When I finish Persona 3, with as much as I've heard it referred to as an entry-level SMT game, is there a readily available "real" SMT game I should try next, or should I just be patient and eagerly await Persona 4 (which I'll do regardless)? I dig a good rpg whether it be casual or hardcore.

DDS. It's not as harsh as nocturne.  You have human party members and don't have to pokemon anything. Story seems pretty good so far. The bosses still take some strategy to beat. The main SMT games are vastly different from the Personas. So be ready for that.
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« Reply #102 on: July 30, 2008, 07:29:11 PM »

I've heard lots of good about them over the years, but never quite got yanked hard enough to play one. For whatever reason, Persona 3 drew me in, and I enjoy it enough that even if the SMT games are different, it sounds like they appeal to the same type of players. So that's why I'm intrigued. icon_biggrin
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« Reply #103 on: August 02, 2008, 02:56:04 PM »

made it thru coordinate 136, & am loving it! - very cool, unique story. i don't often get good ideas, but this definitely was one smile ...
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« Reply #104 on: August 05, 2008, 11:30:26 PM »

hey! - that wasn't that hard - encounter rate somewhere between ffx & nocturne, tho you do have to pay attention, & it only really dragged a bit in the last couple of dungeons. maybe the only thing i could've done better was getting the 'null' stuff earlier, but, fortunately, i stumbled across the evil ganesh (?!) hideout, & was able to devour my way thru the necessary mantras smile ...

great game, & once again makes me wish atlus had access to squeenix-level production values, because they really know how to tell interesting stories & create interesting characters, all within a unique & very twisted mythos. maybe someday. as is, i'm very glad i finally got around to it, &'ve already transferred my save file over to dds2...

ps: the other thing i stumbled across this past weekend was localized versions of the first 2 smts (which definitely make the production values of the recent game a lot more acceptable smile )...
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« Reply #105 on: August 06, 2008, 03:02:02 AM »

Quote from: semiconscious on August 05, 2008, 11:30:26 PM

ps: the other thing i stumbled across this past weekend was localized versions of the first 2 smts (which definitely make the production values of the recent game a lot more acceptable smile )...

Please to be saying more about these localized versions of SMT 1 & 2?  I thought they were only released in Japan?
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« Reply #106 on: August 06, 2008, 03:31:29 AM »

Quote from: warning on August 06, 2008, 03:02:02 AM

Quote from: semiconscious on August 05, 2008, 11:30:26 PM

ps: the other thing i stumbled across this past weekend was localized versions of the first 2 smts (which definitely make the production values of the recent game a lot more acceptable smile )...

Please to be saying more about these localized versions of SMT 1 & 2?  I thought they were only released in Japan?

IIRC, there are fan translations out there.  I remember trying one and, holy crap, was it ever obtuse.  It felt like some sort of weird independent game that you play for five minutes thinking that you admire what they tried to do but it wasn't exactly fun. 
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« Reply #107 on: August 06, 2008, 04:04:41 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on August 06, 2008, 03:31:29 AM

Quote from: warning on August 06, 2008, 03:02:02 AM

Quote from: semiconscious on August 05, 2008, 11:30:26 PM

ps: the other thing i stumbled across this past weekend was localized versions of the first 2 smts (which definitely make the production values of the recent game a lot more acceptable smile )...

Please to be saying more about these localized versions of SMT 1 & 2?  I thought they were only released in Japan?

IIRC, there are fan translations out there.  I remember trying one and, holy crap, was it ever obtuse.  It felt like some sort of weird independent game that you play for five minutes thinking that you admire what they tried to do but it wasn't exactly fun. 

these aren't that obtuse, tho (imo) they definitely have a mother kinda off-kilter feeling to them...

you've got male smile ...
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« Reply #108 on: August 18, 2008, 06:03:19 PM »

20+ hrs in, & just hit the major reveal point - i had my doubts they could explain everything in a coherent way, but damn if they didn't do pretty well smile - nothing like an over-the-top, 'not quite like any other game i've played' -type story that also ends up making quite a bit of (internal) sense...

kinda missing the junkyard for the last while - for me, the first game had a bit more going for it, especially envionmentally (not to mention a couple of very cool/clever dungeons), but, hey, that could change, i suppose...
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« Reply #109 on: December 16, 2008, 06:35:13 AM »

I'm just now finishing up the Manipura base in DDS1.  I started playing this last night and have sunk 6 hours into it already.  I'm loving this game so far!
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« Reply #110 on: December 16, 2008, 12:48:01 PM »

Quote from: warning on December 16, 2008, 06:35:13 AM

I'm just now finishing up the Manipura base in DDS1.  I started playing this last night and have sunk 6 hours into it already.  I'm loving this game so far!

ended up enjoying 1 more than 2, but 1 is a pretty tough act to follow smile . great experience - enjoy!...
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« Reply #111 on: January 22, 2009, 04:03:42 AM »

Well I finished DDS 1 last night and really enjoyed it.  I want to play DDS 2 but I'm going to take a couple of months off before I dive into it.  I was very intrigued by the last scene after the credits where
Spoiler for Hiden:
Serph was walking through the devastated city with the statues of humans all around.

I wrote up a quick review of DDS and posted it on my blog: link

Now I'd really like to find the soundtrack without selling a kidney!
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« Reply #112 on: January 22, 2009, 04:22:22 AM »

Quote from: warning on January 22, 2009, 04:03:42 AM

Now I'd really like to find the soundtrack without selling a kidney!

cdjapan's where i got my copy (the 1&2 combo one)...
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