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Author Topic: [PC] Shadowrun Returns (official review on Page 3)  (Read 7117 times)
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« Reply #120 on: July 26, 2013, 02:34:12 PM »

Quote from: kronovan on July 26, 2013, 06:57:18 AM

Went with an Elf - Decker with a focus on Ranged - pistols and a decent dodge. I've learned to really appreciate the decking whenever it comes time to hack. slywink

How's the decking? I'd think that would be one of the hardest things to get right.

@Tebunker: yeah the isometric view gives it an old-school fallout 1/2 feel for me. I do love the setting as well, though I'm partial to Earthdawn, which (for those that don't know) takes place in the same world, but much later, during a different Awakening. It's funny, I actually went to dig up a Shadowrun rule book yesterday and realized I don't have one. Thought I did. I still have all my old ED stuff.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 02:36:32 PM by Misguided » Logged

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« Reply #121 on: July 26, 2013, 02:56:45 PM »

Quote from: Tebunker on July 26, 2013, 02:10:41 PM

I was thinking it would be good to start very small and do like a one act play to start. I guess I will check out some tutorials when they start getting up and give it a try.

I can only speak from the perspective of writing P'n'P/tabletop RPG adventures, but creating one act is a very good way to start. It's not that hard to later move to another act by using some complication or twist. I never go with more than 3 scenes in an act (usually only 2 and often only 1) because I find gamers are less patient and they want things to keep moving - probably even more important for this type of game. If you have a sound reason -called "the hook" in P'n'P talk- as to why the character(s) find themselves in that 1st act, you can use that to give some consistency across all of your later acts. For an overall adventure I really like to keep to 4 acts with the final being a simpler, 1 scene conclusion. So for at least for the adventures I do, going from 1 act to a full-blown adventure isn't a big effort. Anyhow...that's just one approach, I'm sure others here have different takes on how to do it.

I'd love to write an adventure for this, but the 3 tabletop campaigns I GM always suck up any creative time I can find. As well, having not written for a videogame like this, I'm sure I'd find the learning curve for the tools steep. But maybe...  slywink
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 03:00:24 PM by kronovan » Logged
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« Reply #122 on: July 26, 2013, 02:58:48 PM »

Quote from: Misguided on July 26, 2013, 02:34:12 PM

Quote from: kronovan on July 26, 2013, 06:57:18 AM

Went with an Elf - Decker with a focus on Ranged - pistols and a decent dodge. I've learned to really appreciate the decking whenever it comes time to hack. slywink

How's the decking? I'd think that would be one of the hardest things to get right.

@Tebunker: yeah the isometric view gives it an old-school fallout 1/2 feel for me. I do love the setting as well, though I'm partial to Earthdawn, which (for those that don't know) takes place in the same world, but much later, during a different Awakening. It's funny, I actually went to dig up a Shadowrun rule book yesterday and realized I don't have one. Thought I did. I still have all my old ED stuff.

The second video in my review shows a full decking sequence.  I too went with an Elf Decker for my first character, but I'm sporting an AK-47 for my shooty weapon.  The fedora just makes it look extra cool....
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« Reply #123 on: July 26, 2013, 03:21:45 PM »

Quote from: Misguided on July 26, 2013, 02:34:12 PM

Quote from: kronovan on July 26, 2013, 06:57:18 AM

Went with an Elf - Decker with a focus on Ranged - pistols and a decent dodge. I've learned to really appreciate the decking whenever it comes time to hack. slywink

How's the decking? I'd think that would be one of the hardest things to get right.
It's too early in my play through for me to really know for sure - heck I could be doing it all wrong. slywink From my understanding, you have to ensure to keep advancing your INT and it helps to have a metatype that has a high INT cap like an Elf . The debuff you get is awesome though; I probably got lucky, but by using it my ally and I made mince meat out of a boss in a round.

Quote
I do love the setting as well, though I'm partial to Earthdawn, which (for those that don't know) takes place in the same world, but much later, during a different Awakening.
I don't know Earthdawn well, or really Shadowrun for that matter, but weren't they different worlds/realities. My understanding is that Shadowrun is supposedly set in the 6th World, Earthdawn set in the 4th World, while our contemporary Earth is in the 5th? I never really did read far enough into it to understand FASA/CGL's ideas behind it.

Quote
It's funny, I actually went to dig up a Shadowrun rule book yesterday and realized I don't have one.
I can only comment based on 4th Edition, but the core rulebook isn't very helpful for this; Returns is a much simpler version of that system.  It'd  been a while, but I dug out my book yesterday and there's a heckuva lot more to the P'n'P - really very different games in terms of complexity.
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« Reply #124 on: July 26, 2013, 04:31:39 PM »

Quote from: kronovan on July 26, 2013, 03:21:45 PM

I don't know Earthdawn well, or really Shadowrun for that matter, but weren't they different worlds/realities. My understanding is that Shadowrun is supposedly set in the 6th World, Earthdawn set in the 4th World, while our contemporary Earth is in the 5th? I never really did read far enough into it to understand FASA/CGL's ideas behind it.

I don't know why in my head, Earthdawn occurs later, but apparently that is incorrect, sorry. They are definitely part of the same timeline, though. There is an ebb and flow to the magic level in the world. Earthdawn and Shadowrun take place at different points when the magic level is increased. Catastrophically bad things happen when the magic level gets too high or too low.

Decker sequence looks cool, KD, thanks.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 04:48:47 PM by Misguided » Logged

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« Reply #125 on: July 26, 2013, 09:23:42 PM »

Quote from: Misguided on July 26, 2013, 05:24:05 AM

I made a physical adept, what is everyone else using?

A Mage who has a backup in Rifles (because Overwatch is just so awesome). Problem is is that after running with some allies, I now want to be a Decker, or a Drone user, or a Shaman, or...

SR is just so cool.
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« Reply #126 on: July 26, 2013, 09:40:49 PM »

Quote from: Misguided on July 26, 2013, 05:24:05 AM

I made a physical adept, what is everyone else using?
Im a Decker with Drones who looks really funny with melee weapons.  

A minor nitpick but melee combat is this game is animated laughably bad.  I dont so much hit enemies as gently massage them with my weapons.
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« Reply #127 on: July 26, 2013, 09:53:43 PM »

Quote from: Lordnine on July 26, 2013, 09:40:49 PM

Quote from: Misguided on July 26, 2013, 05:24:05 AM

I made a physical adept, what is everyone else using?
Im a Decker with Drones who looks really funny with melee weapons.  

A minor nitpick but melee combat is this game is animated laughably bad.  I dont so much hit enemies as gently massage them with my weapons.

Literal lol!   Well done sir!   icon_lol
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« Reply #128 on: July 26, 2013, 11:39:34 PM »

The potential modules people are going to be making for this game is great. It's like Neverwinter Nights all over again smile


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« Reply #129 on: July 26, 2013, 11:59:37 PM »

Quote from: USMC Kato on July 26, 2013, 11:39:34 PM

The potential modules people are going to be making for this game is great. It's like Neverwinter Nights all over again smile


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Yep, it's limitless potential.  I forsee some awesome modules in the future.   I'd LOVE to see the old-school game Neuromancer rebuilt using this engine....
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« Reply #130 on: July 27, 2013, 12:20:23 AM »

Well THAT didn't take long.   SNES Shadowrun remake alpha.  http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=163841297&searchtext=
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« Reply #131 on: July 28, 2013, 04:47:04 PM »

I've been playing this for a few hours over the weekend. I am playing as a human smg shooter and just completed the mission in the cemetery. So far the game seems very linear - enter a new map, talk, look around, fight, repeat. I wish that there were more loot drops.
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« Reply #132 on: July 28, 2013, 05:00:18 PM »

Yup, very linear. It is a gear-based game, but not in a random loot sense....more in using cash to buy new stuff.
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« Reply #133 on: July 28, 2013, 05:11:22 PM »

last mission spoiler 


Spoiler for Hiden:
Stock up on med kits and doc wagon cause the the butlers sell everything but these essential items.  this seems like a huge over-sight in my book.  i'm struggling with this mission cause i don't have adequate med kits
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« Reply #134 on: July 29, 2013, 03:55:19 AM »

Just finished up the stock campaign.  Great writing and worth the fifteen bucks I kickstarted.  Looking forward to the user-generated campaigns, too. 

Still, I can't help but comparing this to the recent Xcom game.  If I had to choose my favorite turn-based, rebooted, science-fiction-y, recent release, I'd have to go with Xcom.  I know it's not exactly fair to compare a relatively big release with a smaller, crowdfunded game, though. 
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« Reply #135 on: July 29, 2013, 05:07:42 AM »

Rolling a human Street Samurai, and I just made it to the Royale apartments. It's not bad at all. It's a bit linear, but I'm enjoying the combat and the atmosphere. The character models are a bit bleh but the environments are gorgeous.
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« Reply #136 on: July 29, 2013, 02:59:40 PM »

I started a custom dwarf mage/adept and a custom troll melee/ranged.  Both are fun.  My original concept for the dwarf was that he could rely on adept skills to handle foes that rushed him in melee, but that just doesn't happen that much.  His mage spells are powerful enough to handle every encounter (so far).  It is cool to see him carrying an axe around in his mystical hoodie though.  His current spell loadout allows him to lock down 2 enemies at once (blind and mind wipe), dish out good single target and aoe damage, heal, and triple strike anyone dumb enough to get close to him (chi focus x3). 

It wasn't clear to me at first, but the adept melee chi focus passives only seem to work when equipping the right magic resistance spell.  With Magic Resistance II he can now choose between using double or tripple strike chi focus.       

My troll custom samurai is not nearly as complex as my dwarf, but he's fun to play.  He's melee centric with good assault rifle support, and can lob grenades like a pro. 

I'm really enjoying the game, especially for the $17 I paid.   
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« Reply #137 on: July 29, 2013, 08:16:28 PM »

Lol, I was wondering why this game was so different than my 4th ed. rules book, when it dawned on me that this is supposed to be in a way a reboot of the SNES classic which was based on 2nd edition. Sure enough my buddy dug his old 2nd ed rule book out yesterday and lent it to me. It's still a much simpler system than the 2nd edition rules, but at least all the same attributes are there. The skills are quite different than what are in the P'n'P rules though. There's enough similar though, that if you had a copy of the 2nd ed rules they could be used for a reference for this game.

Still playing, but I ran into a nasty bug last night will questing in the Matrix. After exiting, the game  broke with my party member getting stuck against a wall and my PC movement occurring at high speed in the Seamstress Union safe house. A mission earlier I'd done a rewind+copy when I pooched a mission, so I'm hoping the problem wasn't some how caused by that.  paranoid
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« Reply #138 on: July 29, 2013, 09:28:28 PM »

What the heck do the shaman quiet spells do?  There's a silence spell that seems to help friendly characters sneak better, except there isn't any sneaking in the game.  There's also a "quiet bomb" spell that prevents noise in an area.  

I figured out a good use for the shaman's shadow spell during one of the key set pieces.  It basically turns your runners invisible as long as they are inside the shadow area.  It's nice to have if you want your group to disappear for a few rounds.  

The shaman elemental barrier spells are good for putting up temp cover spots for your runners in open space, or to build upon existing cover.  The higher level barrier spells have some nice effects too.  Your runners will go into the cover animation when they are directly adjacent to a tile with a barrier effect.  It's cool watching enemies that are already wounded kill themselves running through barrier tiles...or drain their AP.
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« Reply #139 on: July 29, 2013, 10:20:55 PM »

rogue i havent played so take what im saying with a grain of salt but i thought there was sneaking in the game?  not in an explicit and hard coded stat sort of way, but basically the enemies have an environmental awareness.  if a hostile is looking away, you can move up on him in rounds and he might not actually engage until he hears you or turns around.  likewise the area quiet spell might even go so far as to supress gun fire, thereby preventing enemies the next room over from crashing your pistol party.

also in a lot of games like this, spellcasting is related to voice, and silence prevents spellcasting - mind you like i said i dont have the game and im talking out of my... er, yeah... but theres me tossing a few ideas out there
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« Reply #140 on: July 30, 2013, 02:19:42 AM »

There is a built in stealth factor in this game that effects how easily enemy NPC's will detect your PC or Party, but there's no player activated stealth/sneak play mechanic like there is in other D&D based games like Baldur's Gate. The Shaman's Silence and Quiet Bomb spells allow for the built in stealth to be more effective for a specific character (Silence) or, group of characters (Quite Bomb) in a specific area. Here's the descriptions for them from the shadowrun Returns Wiki site:

"Silence - The target of the Silence spell makes no noise for 4 turns."

"Quiet Bomb - An area effect spell that reduces any sound made in it to 0. Lasts for 4 turns."

There is no concept of Verbal, Somatic or Material components in Shadowrun for spells like there is for the Vancian magic in D&D. The only real unique descriptors for Shadowrun spells is Mana based Vs Physical based.
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« Reply #141 on: July 30, 2013, 06:14:05 AM »

Quote from: kadnod on July 29, 2013, 03:55:19 AM

Still, I can't help but comparing this to the recent Xcom game. 

it's hard not to.  only played a bit so far but I kinda felt at home with the way they set things up.
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« Reply #142 on: July 30, 2013, 07:27:14 PM »

Thanks for clarifying how the quiet spells work.  I think I'm spoiled by having some form of gameplay feedback like a noise or stealth meter.

I'm wondering if there was an oversight in having all of the ranged weapons share the same range of 19.  I just assumed that rifles would have greater range than a shotgun, but that's not the case.  Shotguns are powerful at any range.  I think accuracy changes based on the type of ranged weapon, but it's not enough to make it a requirement to switch from shotgon/pistol/smg to a rifle.

Btw, really enjoying the game.     
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« Reply #143 on: July 30, 2013, 08:31:20 PM »

This game has its hooks in me, too bad I am near the end.  Anyone try out the editor yet? Accessible or just for advanced users only?
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« Reply #144 on: July 31, 2013, 02:09:07 PM »

So I'm running Dead Man's Switch again with a Dwarf Shaman and I'm finding myself constantly broke.  I just saved ML from the UB and approached Mr. J for the Renarku Run and I have enough nuyen on hand to hire just one additional runner.  I didn't have this problem with my decker
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« Reply #145 on: July 31, 2013, 03:02:40 PM »

Quote from: Soulchilde on July 31, 2013, 02:09:07 PM

So I'm running Dead Man's Switch again with a Dwarf Shaman and I'm finding myself constantly broke.  I just saved ML from the UB and approached Mr. J for the Renarku Run and I have enough nuyen on hand to hire just one additional runner.  I didn't have this problem with my decker
Is that because of the expense of restocking fetishes?  I usually only bring 2 with me, and rely on conjuration spells and ranged to support the group.  The higher level fetishes are expensive.
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« Reply #146 on: July 31, 2013, 03:39:23 PM »

Quote from: Roguetad on July 31, 2013, 03:02:40 PM

Quote from: Soulchilde on July 31, 2013, 02:09:07 PM

So I'm running Dead Man's Switch again with a Dwarf Shaman and I'm finding myself constantly broke.  I just saved ML from the UB and approached Mr. J for the Renarku Run and I have enough nuyen on hand to hire just one additional runner.  I didn't have this problem with my decker
Is that because of the expense of restocking fetishes?  I usually only bring 2 with me, and rely on conjuration spells and ranged to support the group.  The higher level fetishes are expensive.

This maybe the cause.  I'll probably do a rewind and start from there
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« Reply #147 on: July 31, 2013, 03:47:54 PM »

Quote from: USMC Kato on July 30, 2013, 08:31:20 PM

Anyone try out the editor yet? Accessible or just for advanced users only?

I looked at the editor last night.  it scared me.....
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« Reply #148 on: July 31, 2013, 05:23:06 PM »

Quote from: Roguetad on July 30, 2013, 07:27:14 PM

I'm wondering if there was an oversight in having all of the ranged weapons share the same range of 19.  I just assumed that rifles would have greater range than a shotgun, but that's not the case.

My guess it was a decision based on the scope of the game and the limited size of the maps. The 2nd ed. core rules certainly model differences in the max ranges between various firearms. That system uses 4 ranges (short, medium, long & extreme) to determine how difficult it is to hit a particular target. That said, the 2nd ed core rules -true even true for 4th ed.- really don't make any attempt to clearly define map scales unlike just about every other RPG. That means any videogame developer really has their work cut out for them in terms of figuring how things work in a 2D or 3D world where distances often have to be considered. I think that might be part of the reason for the generic distances on fireams. IIRC modders can add weapons with the editor, so maybe more variable firearm ranges will be added by them.
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« Reply #149 on: August 02, 2013, 04:33:21 AM »

Sigh, beat the game in about 12 glorious hours. Like any great game I want mmooaarr, wish I could forget I have Shadowrun and fast forward a year from now when all the premium user created content is out.
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« Reply #150 on: August 02, 2013, 12:16:56 PM »

Quote from: kronovan on July 31, 2013, 05:23:06 PM

Quote from: Roguetad on July 30, 2013, 07:27:14 PM

I'm wondering if there was an oversight in having all of the ranged weapons share the same range of 19.  I just assumed that rifles would have greater range than a shotgun, but that's not the case.

My guess it was a decision based on the scope of the game and the limited size of the maps. The 2nd ed. core rules certainly model differences in the max ranges between various firearms. That system uses 4 ranges (short, medium, long & extreme) to determine how difficult it is to hit a particular target. That said, the 2nd ed core rules -true even true for 4th ed.- really don't make any attempt to clearly define map scales unlike just about every other RPG. That means any videogame developer really has their work cut out for them in terms of figuring how things work in a 2D or 3D world where distances often have to be considered. I think that might be part of the reason for the generic distances on fireams. IIRC modders can add weapons with the editor, so maybe more variable firearm ranges will be added by them.

Their max range may be the same, but their accuracy at range is different.
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« Reply #151 on: August 02, 2013, 03:19:23 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on August 02, 2013, 12:16:56 PM

Quote from: kronovan on July 31, 2013, 05:23:06 PM

Quote from: Roguetad on July 30, 2013, 07:27:14 PM

I'm wondering if there was an oversight in having all of the ranged weapons share the same range of 19.  I just assumed that rifles would have greater range than a shotgun, but that's not the case.

My guess it was a decision based on the scope of the game and the limited size of the maps. The 2nd ed. core rules certainly model differences in the max ranges between various firearms. That system uses 4 ranges (short, medium, long & extreme) to determine how difficult it is to hit a particular target. That said, the 2nd ed core rules -true even true for 4th ed.- really don't make any attempt to clearly define map scales unlike just about every other RPG. That means any videogame developer really has their work cut out for them in terms of figuring how things work in a 2D or 3D world where distances often have to be considered. I think that might be part of the reason for the generic distances on fireams. IIRC modders can add weapons with the editor, so maybe more variable firearm ranges will be added by them.

Their max range may be the same, but their accuracy at range is different.

To some extent, but the 19 (I'm assuming that's in meters like the P'n'P core rules) is only long range for light and hold-out pistols. Although that gives a penalty in terms of increasing the to-hit target number, that's only an increase from 4 -to- 6 . As well, I doubt there's many situations on SRR's maps where you're firing any more than what constitutes medium range for even  lighter pistols - so really only the difference between a 4 & 5 and a 4 for most firearms. When rolling dice pools, where it isn't uncommon for a beginning player to be rolling 5 or more dice for ranged attacks, a TN of 5 isn't too challenging. Of course the SRR team may have chucked the core rule ranged combat mechanics for something different; I haven't read through their developer blogs/posts, so I wouldn't know.
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« Reply #152 on: August 03, 2013, 03:18:34 AM »

 icon_evil

I open up the game aaaaand....."New Game" is the only thing lit.  My safe file was eaten, and fuckyouverymuch to Steam, it's synched that now.  I REALLY wish I could select "save locally ONLY" it some way with Steam.   I don't WANT my save files to go to the cloud.  This has screwed me in Skyrim, Borderlands 2, and now Shadowrun Returns.  That's goddamned infuriating.
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« Reply #153 on: August 03, 2013, 03:33:18 AM »

From the menu - Steam / Settings / Cloud.  Then disable 'Enable Steam Cloud synchronization'.
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« Reply #154 on: August 03, 2013, 03:39:09 AM »

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on August 03, 2013, 03:33:18 AM

From the menu - Steam / Settings / Cloud.  Then disable 'Enable Steam Cloud synchronization'.

Done!  Thank you!   I was 10 hours into my second run, and now....I think I'll play Tropico instead.  Nothing against Tropico 4, just wanted to play Shadowrun.
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« Reply #155 on: August 03, 2013, 04:49:50 AM »

Quote from: USMC Kato on August 02, 2013, 04:33:21 AM

Sigh, beat the game in about 12 glorious hours. Like any great game I want mmooaarr, wish I could forget I have Shadowrun and fast forward a year from now when all the premium user created content is out.

Update 59 just came out, has details about them working on Berlin, targeted at Late October.
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« Reply #156 on: August 03, 2013, 04:54:04 AM »

Ok, through some creative hoop jumping, I figured out how to fix this.  I flipped to offline mode, I made a new save so a new .sav file was made.  I then copied the online save to the local folder and reloaded steam and voila!  It worked.  smile
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« Reply #157 on: August 04, 2013, 11:59:03 PM »

Ugh...just had the game bug out near the end of mission and need to restart it from scratch...
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« Reply #158 on: August 13, 2013, 10:39:45 PM »

So I've been playing some of the UGC that are out there and three best so far are

Jacked Up - play a pre-generated character
From the Shadows, RUN - new character only
The Deep One - can import your character

All three are incomplete stories but great story telling with The Deep One being the weakest, imo
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« Reply #159 on: August 19, 2013, 03:09:22 PM »

Berlin delayed:

Quote
We've heard a lot of questions from you wondering what to expect from Berlin. Well, our original plan called for a modest-sized campaign that we could ship by the end of October. However, after listening to your forum discussions and feedback, it became clear that you would like to see something bigger (and so would we). So, we've decided to spend more time on Berlin to create an experience closer to the size of Dead Mans Switch. A story of that scope will take longer, so were targeting January for its release. While we're still in the early stages of development and many things could change, wed like to share what were planning so far. For example - we know that we want our next story to feel more like the player is part of a shadowrunning crew and contain more corporate intrigue.
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